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9/11 Mysteries

1678911

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    Why not? I guess we can spend 10 years looking for a dead guy.
    I'm not sure what the hell to believe anymore.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/12/26/report-bin-laden-already-dead.html#
    http://video.foxnews.com/v/4672891/dna-tests-confirm-bin-laden-killed/?#sp=show-clips

    I think it's time for some cannabis.
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    I guess the only reasonable explanation is that my friend's dad and your dad are obviously involved in a government conspiracy as well as HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of other people and not one has said a peep.

    Ok. Makes sense.
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,997
    No, that's just stupid. Obviously you're the government agency hired to spread rumors! I know too much now......
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    Nice!
    Since you have a lyric in your signature from one of my all time fav PJ songs, here goes:
    Let's start with the 2 towers. Ponder this:
    - No planes hit the buildings (there is the possibility nothing hit the buildings at all - pure CGI, followed by more CGI or explosives - I forget)
    - The towers were gutted prior to 9/11 - over the course of their history, they were probably not more than 30% capacity - they especially had trouble getting tenants after '93. I remember the clean up crews saying 'no door knobs, no desks, no phones' when going through the wreckage.
    - I think 2 fake companies were made up to make it seem like they were on the floors where the impact was - Cantor Fitzgerald comes to mind. These 2 companies comprised of about 1000 of the victims.
    - Google the 'Italian Artists Twin Towers' - they were in the building for 4 years I think prior to 2001. You will see them hanging out the windows and dropping dummies
    - I don't think the actual collapse of the buildings were shown on TV - CGI I think to throw off people with the molten steel and puffs of smoke and things like that
    Pretty crazy eh?

    Yes crazy. If you believe even oneb word of this then you lose all,credibility
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
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    And the families might be actors? I'm not saying no one died but it's prob wayyy lower then we heard.

    Just,when I thought you couldn't say something as insulting as your first post, you say this
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Options
    g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


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    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Options
    JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    I don't know guys - this is a sensitive subject as everyone knows - a friend of mine said he has a friend whose friend lost someone. I have spot checked a few victims and they do not appear in the SS Death Index (doesn't include obits/cemeteries) as Simon stated, but do come up in searches that includes obits/cemeteries.
    I just saw an article about Obama vetoing a bill to allow families to sue Saudi Arabia:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/us/politics/9-11-saudi-bill-veto-obama.html?action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=RelatedCoverage&region=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article
    It mentions Kristen Breitweiser, so I decided to check her husband Ronald in SSDI and it came up empty as well.

    Ok, my mind is open to anything and everything, I rule out nothing but your telling me josh reiss was not killed on 911?
  • Options
    g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,515
    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    Controlled demolitions can't be done without those working in the building knowing about it well ahead of time though. Are you suggesting that the building was emptied for days so that it could be prepared for a controlled demolition that coincided with the collapse of the twin towers? Or are you suggesting that everyone who worked in tower 7 has kept it a secret that preparations for a controlled demolition had taken place in the days leading up to 9/11?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,817

    Why not? I guess we can spend 10 years looking for a dead guy.
    I'm not sure what the hell to believe anymore.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/12/26/report-bin-laden-already-dead.html#
    http://video.foxnews.com/v/4672891/dna-tests-confirm-bin-laden-killed/?#sp=show-clips

    I think it's time for some cannabis.

    I think it's time for you to quit, to be honest.
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,997
    Come on guys. Everyone knows it was obviously staged by anti-Nickelback fans to hinder the release of their album "Silver Side Up" that was released that day.
    Who here owns a copy of "Silver Side up"? Exactly!
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    Jason PJason P Posts: 19,122
    edited September 2016
    Our government couldn't even pull off hiding some WMD's in Iraq which would have gotten them off the hook.

    Think about that. Really hard. Then consider that the same group of people were able to pull off 9/11. Then slap yourself if you still ponder if it may be possible.
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    Jason P said:

    Our government couldn't even pull off hiding some WMD's in Iraq which would have gotten them off the hook.

    Think about that. Really hard. Then consider that the same group of people were able to pull off 9/11. Then slap yourself if you still ponder if it may be possible.

    Boom.

    Not to mention a president can't get a blow job without it getting out. But something the scale of 9/11 can go off without a hitch? If you say so, buddy.
  • Options
    BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,539
    Try telling the people I know who died, and their families, that it didn't happen.
    Try telling the people I worked with, who to this day carry physical and emotional scars, that it didn't happen.
  • Options
    g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
    PJ_Soul said:

    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    Controlled demolitions can't be done without those working in the building knowing about it well ahead of time though. Are you suggesting that the building was emptied for days so that it could be prepared for a controlled demolition that coincided with the collapse of the twin towers? Or are you suggesting that everyone who worked in tower 7 has kept it a secret that preparations for a controlled demolition had taken place in the days leading up to 9/11?


    Every time I get ready to answer your logical questions I get these severe legs cramps that last forever from cycling. Bare with me I'm fighting through them as I write, if I stop they've become for too much to bare.

    Well this is all I know....if controlled demolition is to be considered there comes forth a serious problem for it to be plausible. That is thousand of pounds of explosives would be needed, planted in and around the core columns and throughout the building's internal frameworks. So this leads to someone knew what was about to happen on 9/11. It means someone with enough power, means and ready access to delicate parts of the building. Security was tight after the 1993 attack, so fast forward who was in charge of the WTC Complex.....Securacom. From 1999-2002 they provided security for WTC, United Airlines and Dulles Airport and the CEO of the company Marvin P. Bush and cousin Wirt Walker III. Just providing a little background as to the security of the WTC Complex.

    Having several well documented power outages and many floor shutdowns, evacuations that came weeks before 9/11. With Securacom in control of security of which no one would question gave perfect opportunities to carry up and plant all the necessary explosives under the disguise of maintenance or retrofitting work. So the possibility of explosives being planted in Building 7 was there mainly due to who was in control of security. This was one of the very first questions I had as to who had the control to have WTC security force to stand down or think not to question much of the evacs or so called maintenance work that was being done.

    As for the Towers that's for someone else's debate......my main concern and questions from what I've read is Building 7, I'll leave it there.

    Peace




    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


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    I can respect that, G. I think those are fine things to point out and things I still question to this day.
    There's a fine line between tasteful debate driven 9/11 topic and just flat out being disrespectful to anyone impacted by 9/11.
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    No disrespect meant at all - no way. I never said I agreed with any findings yet - I merely tried to point out things I have found. No planes? No deaths? Seems crazy, sure, but so does everything else about that day.
    This is really the first time I've tried to do an in depth look myself - I had no idea what I was getting into - all the comments have been great though. I'm glad we are all still passionate about this.
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    Sorry you guys had to be my guinea pig down this rabbit hole - but I couldn't think of a better place to try than with PJ fans..
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,997
    edited September 2016
    g under p said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    Controlled demolitions can't be done without those working in the building knowing about it well ahead of time though. Are you suggesting that the building was emptied for days so that it could be prepared for a controlled demolition that coincided with the collapse of the twin towers? Or are you suggesting that everyone who worked in tower 7 has kept it a secret that preparations for a controlled demolition had taken place in the days leading up to 9/11?


    Every time I get ready to answer your logical questions I get these severe legs cramps that last forever from cycling. Bare with me I'm fighting through them as I write, if I stop they've become for too much to bare.

    Well this is all I know....if controlled demolition is to be considered there comes forth a serious problem for it to be plausible. That is thousand of pounds of explosives would be needed, planted in and around the core columns and throughout the building's internal frameworks. So this leads to someone knew what was about to happen on 9/11. It means someone with enough power, means and ready access to delicate parts of the building. Security was tight after the 1993 attack, so fast forward who was in charge of the WTC Complex.....Securacom. From 1999-2002 they provided security for WTC, United Airlines and Dulles Airport and the CEO of the company Marvin P. Bush and cousin Wirt Walker III. Just providing a little background as to the security of the WTC Complex.

    Having several well documented power outages and many floor shutdowns, evacuations that came weeks before 9/11. With Securacom in control of security of which no one would question gave perfect opportunities to carry up and plant all the necessary explosives under the disguise of maintenance or retrofitting work. So the possibility of explosives being planted in Building 7 was there mainly due to who was in control of security. This was one of the very first questions I had as to who had the control to have WTC security force to stand down or think not to question much of the evacs or so called maintenance work that was being done.

    As for the Towers that's for someone else's debate......my main concern and questions from what I've read is Building 7, I'll leave it there.

    Peace

    I don't see how you can separate tower 7 from the other 2. If you believe tower 7 was set up, then it would have to go without saying so was everything else, unless you want to believe whoever planned to blow up tower 7 was so lucky to do it on 9/11 when only a few would seriously be asking questions and could pass all the blame.
    Maybe it was "possible" for an inside job on tower 7, but for the whole thing to be set up just doesn't seem even possible to me on the scale that it was. Which in my opinion eliminates the option for any of it to be a set up-seems like an all or nothing deal to me.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Options
    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    People seem to be stuck on the notion of free fall speed. If something is falling, it's falling at free fall speed. Once the collapse begins, theres nothing stopping it. It's falling. How else is a building supposed to fall? Do you really think it should have tipped over? The support of those buildings all rely on all loads being accounted for equally. I'm sure there are designs that account for very limited load transfer. But when a large section of structural load has failed, it all fails.

    I can't tell you why other building didn't collapse. My best guess is that they did not sustain the same damage building 7 took when the planes crashed into the buildings. When those buildings fell, I can't remember the total amount of weight that came down, but that I'd definitely enough to compromise the foundation of a building next to it that has already sustained damage and is burning out of control.

    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Options
    g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
    mace1229 said:

    g under p said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    Controlled demolitions can't be done without those working in the building knowing about it well ahead of time though. Are you suggesting that the building was emptied for days so that it could be prepared for a controlled demolition that coincided with the collapse of the twin towers? Or are you suggesting that everyone who worked in tower 7 has kept it a secret that preparations for a controlled demolition had taken place in the days leading up to 9/11?


    Every time I get ready to answer your logical questions I get these severe legs cramps that last forever from cycling. Bare with me I'm fighting through them as I write, if I stop they've become for too much to bare.

    Well this is all I know....if controlled demolition is to be considered there comes forth a serious problem for it to be plausible. That is thousand of pounds of explosives would be needed, planted in and around the core columns and throughout the building's internal frameworks. So this leads to someone knew what was about to happen on 9/11. It means someone with enough power, means and ready access to delicate parts of the building. Security was tight after the 1993 attack, so fast forward who was in charge of the WTC Complex.....Securacom. From 1999-2002 they provided security for WTC, United Airlines and Dulles Airport and the CEO of the company Marvin P. Bush and cousin Wirt Walker III. Just providing a little background as to the security of the WTC Complex.

    Having several well documented power outages and many floor shutdowns, evacuations that came weeks before 9/11. With Securacom in control of security of which no one would question gave perfect opportunities to carry up and plant all the necessary explosives under the disguise of maintenance or retrofitting work. So the possibility of explosives being planted in Building 7 was there mainly due to who was in control of security. This was one of the very first questions I had as to who had the control to have WTC security force to stand down or think not to question much of the evacs or so called maintenance work that was being done.

    As for the Towers that's for someone else's debate......my main concern and questions from what I've read is Building 7, I'll leave it there.

    Peace


    I don't see how you can separate tower 7 from the other 2. If you believe tower 7 was set up, then it would have to go without saying so was everything else, unless you want to believe whoever planned to blow up tower 7 was so lucky to do it on 9/11 when only a few would seriously be asking questions and could pass all the blame.
    Maybe it was "possible" for an inside job on tower 7, but for the whole thing to be set up just doesn't seem even possible to me on the scale that it was. Which in my opinion eliminates the option for any of it to be a set up-seems like an all or nothing deal to me.
    That sounds like a very logical point view.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Options
    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,515
    mace1229 said:

    g under p said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    Controlled demolitions can't be done without those working in the building knowing about it well ahead of time though. Are you suggesting that the building was emptied for days so that it could be prepared for a controlled demolition that coincided with the collapse of the twin towers? Or are you suggesting that everyone who worked in tower 7 has kept it a secret that preparations for a controlled demolition had taken place in the days leading up to 9/11?


    Every time I get ready to answer your logical questions I get these severe legs cramps that last forever from cycling. Bare with me I'm fighting through them as I write, if I stop they've become for too much to bare.

    Well this is all I know....if controlled demolition is to be considered there comes forth a serious problem for it to be plausible. That is thousand of pounds of explosives would be needed, planted in and around the core columns and throughout the building's internal frameworks. So this leads to someone knew what was about to happen on 9/11. It means someone with enough power, means and ready access to delicate parts of the building. Security was tight after the 1993 attack, so fast forward who was in charge of the WTC Complex.....Securacom. From 1999-2002 they provided security for WTC, United Airlines and Dulles Airport and the CEO of the company Marvin P. Bush and cousin Wirt Walker III. Just providing a little background as to the security of the WTC Complex.

    Having several well documented power outages and many floor shutdowns, evacuations that came weeks before 9/11. With Securacom in control of security of which no one would question gave perfect opportunities to carry up and plant all the necessary explosives under the disguise of maintenance or retrofitting work. So the possibility of explosives being planted in Building 7 was there mainly due to who was in control of security. This was one of the very first questions I had as to who had the control to have WTC security force to stand down or think not to question much of the evacs or so called maintenance work that was being done.

    As for the Towers that's for someone else's debate......my main concern and questions from what I've read is Building 7, I'll leave it there.

    Peace

    I don't see how you can separate tower 7 from the other 2. If you believe tower 7 was set up, then it would have to go without saying so was everything else, unless you want to believe whoever planned to blow up tower 7 was so lucky to do it on 9/11 when only a few would seriously be asking questions and could pass all the blame.
    Maybe it was "possible" for an inside job on tower 7, but for the whole thing to be set up just doesn't seem even possible to me on the scale that it was. Which in my opinion eliminates the option for any of it to be a set up-seems like an all or nothing deal to me.
    I would agree with that.

    I hope your leg cramps work out g under p! Ouch! Those can be killer!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Options
    g under p said:

    mace1229 said:

    g under p said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    Controlled demolitions can't be done without those working in the building knowing about it well ahead of time though. Are you suggesting that the building was emptied for days so that it could be prepared for a controlled demolition that coincided with the collapse of the twin towers? Or are you suggesting that everyone who worked in tower 7 has kept it a secret that preparations for a controlled demolition had taken place in the days leading up to 9/11?


    Every time I get ready to answer your logical questions I get these severe legs cramps that last forever from cycling. Bare with me I'm fighting through them as I write, if I stop they've become for too much to bare.

    Well this is all I know....if controlled demolition is to be considered there comes forth a serious problem for it to be plausible. That is thousand of pounds of explosives would be needed, planted in and around the core columns and throughout the building's internal frameworks. So this leads to someone knew what was about to happen on 9/11. It means someone with enough power, means and ready access to delicate parts of the building. Security was tight after the 1993 attack, so fast forward who was in charge of the WTC Complex.....Securacom. From 1999-2002 they provided security for WTC, United Airlines and Dulles Airport and the CEO of the company Marvin P. Bush and cousin Wirt Walker III. Just providing a little background as to the security of the WTC Complex.

    Having several well documented power outages and many floor shutdowns, evacuations that came weeks before 9/11. With Securacom in control of security of which no one would question gave perfect opportunities to carry up and plant all the necessary explosives under the disguise of maintenance or retrofitting work. So the possibility of explosives being planted in Building 7 was there mainly due to who was in control of security. This was one of the very first questions I had as to who had the control to have WTC security force to stand down or think not to question much of the evacs or so called maintenance work that was being done.

    As for the Towers that's for someone else's debate......my main concern and questions from what I've read is Building 7, I'll leave it there.

    Peace


    I don't see how you can separate tower 7 from the other 2. If you believe tower 7 was set up, then it would have to go without saying so was everything else, unless you want to believe whoever planned to blow up tower 7 was so lucky to do it on 9/11 when only a few would seriously be asking questions and could pass all the blame.
    Maybe it was "possible" for an inside job on tower 7, but for the whole thing to be set up just doesn't seem even possible to me on the scale that it was. Which in my opinion eliminates the option for any of it to be a set up-seems like an all or nothing deal to me.
    That sounds like a very logical point view.

    Peace
    So you think there's a possiblitlity that tower 7 was set up to be destroyed and whoever planned it just got lucky that 9/11 happened and gave them the perfect opportunity? That seems plausible?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,515
    I think g under p was saying that mace had a good point about it being implausible?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,846
    Question: do you guys believe the official story of 3 shots from a lone assassin in Dallas, Texas 11/22/63?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    Negative. I think there was another gun man.
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    g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122

    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    People seem to be stuck on the notion of free fall speed. If something is falling, it's falling at free fall speed. Once the collapse begins, theres nothing stopping it. It's falling. How else is a building supposed to fall? Do you really think it should have tipped over? The support of those buildings all rely on all loads being accounted for equally. I'm sure there are designs that account for very limited load transfer. But when a large section of structural load has failed, it all fails.

    I can't tell you why other building didn't collapse. My best guess is that they did not sustain the same damage building 7 took when the planes crashed into the buildings. When those buildings fell, I can't remember the total amount of weight that came down, but that I'd definitely enough to compromise the foundation of a building next to it that has already sustained damage and is burning out of control.

    You know what I think in future demolition we should just set asemetrical fires let it burn and patiently wait for it to fall semetrically in its own footprint.

    Well, I'm not an architect but I've played that game what's it called Jenga. So if one of those lower loading blocks in the game is pulled/removed the wooden block structure falls. I'm sure an architect would say that the speed at which Building 7 fell is important in that shows the steel structure had no resistance as it fell semetrically into itself. To achieve this the core steel had to be compromised for a 47 story steel building to fall semetrically in 7 seconds from a fire that wasn't even raging. NIST reports says Building 7 fell from office furniture fires. If that's the case this would the first high rise steel structure to fall into its footprint.

    Images that I've seen of Building 7 before the collapse I really did not see astronomical damage caused from the earlier buildings that fell. It appeared to be intact but I could be wrong. The foundation point could be valid however it's the first I've heard of this. Building 7 was built in the mid 80's I believe and I'm sure it was built to hold its own in case of a rare earthquake. I could be wrong but I doubt the Towers fall was on the the level of an earthquake yet B7 came down as fast as dropping one's car keys from two stories. No I do not expect that building to tip over from furniture fire, what I would expect is a much slower collapse. If this building was ever going to fall from fires on mid level floors.

    In the end it's probably best to speak to architects or a demolitician expert and hear what they have to say. I'm far from saying I'm right in what I have to say I'm just have questions and going on what saw then said on that terrible day of 9/11.....*oh shit, that building (B7) came down like controlled demolition*.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


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    I'm not an architect either, but I'm wondering, can a building fall "slower?"

    Let's assume, for arguments sake, that there was an earthquake that did structurally damage the building causing it to collapse. Would the building fall slower? Under what circumstance would make a building fall any slower than "free fall" speed?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,997
    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    g under p said:

    Wow, I go away for a couple of days and out of the blue this thread is back. So anything new.....well to this day I'm mystified about the free fall speed Building 7 fell into its own footprint. All from a fire that supposedly burned for 10 hours or less. I've seen a control demolition and if Building 7 wasn't one I know of no fire that could've done that in that short period.....then fall in the fashion that it did.

    Peace

    It was just fire. It was the fire combined with falling debris from the impact of 2 planes hitting the towers. Also, when the Teo 110 story buildings collapsed, it completely compromised the foundation that tower7 stood on. So when consider all of those factors, it isn't hard to believe the building fell like that. It actually makes a lot more sense that months of secret planning and secret demolition plans going on with nobody knowing.
    Ok believe that if you wish that all those factors were true I still do not believe that building would come down at free fall speed and collapse in its own footprint. If the foundation ground zero was so compromised why weren't any other buildings compromised. That building fell in far too of a controlled fashion for fire, debris and a compromised foundation to bring it down.

    Peace

    People seem to be stuck on the notion of free fall speed. If something is falling, it's falling at free fall speed. Once the collapse begins, theres nothing stopping it. It's falling. How else is a building supposed to fall? Do you really think it should have tipped over? The support of those buildings all rely on all loads being accounted for equally. I'm sure there are designs that account for very limited load transfer. But when a large section of structural load has failed, it all fails.

    I can't tell you why other building didn't collapse. My best guess is that they did not sustain the same damage building 7 took when the planes crashed into the buildings. When those buildings fell, I can't remember the total amount of weight that came down, but that I'd definitely enough to compromise the foundation of a building next to it that has already sustained damage and is burning out of control.

    You know what I think in future demolition we should just set asemetrical fires let it burn and patiently wait for it to fall semetrically in its own footprint.

    Well, I'm not an architect but I've played that game what's it called Jenga. So if one of those lower loading blocks in the game is pulled/removed the wooden block structure falls. I'm sure an architect would say that the speed at which Building 7 fell is important in that shows the steel structure had no resistance as it fell semetrically into itself. To achieve this the core steel had to be compromised for a 47 story steel building to fall semetrically in 7 seconds from a fire that wasn't even raging. NIST reports says Building 7 fell from office furniture fires. If that's the case this would the first high rise steel structure to fall into its footprint.

    Images that I've seen of Building 7 before the collapse I really did not see astronomical damage caused from the earlier buildings that fell. It appeared to be intact but I could be wrong. The foundation point could be valid however it's the first I've heard of this. Building 7 was built in the mid 80's I believe and I'm sure it was built to hold its own in case of a rare earthquake. I could be wrong but I doubt the Towers fall was on the the level of an earthquake yet B7 came down as fast as dropping one's car keys from two stories. No I do not expect that building to tip over from furniture fire, what I would expect is a much slower collapse. If this building was ever going to fall from fires on mid level floors.

    In the end it's probably best to speak to architects or a demolitician expert and hear what they have to say. I'm far from saying I'm right in what I have to say I'm just have questions and going on what saw then said on that terrible day of 9/11.....*oh shit, that building (B7) came down like controlled demolition*.

    Peace
    Remember that game "Rampage" with the giant lizards on Nintendo? Those buildings fell straight down.
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