Over 400 Scientists disput global warming

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

how much will those people get for their houses and their equity when they evacuate to higher ground? they'll still have to pay their mortgages. since the ice melted thus far has been sitting in water; it hasn't caused a rise in levels. the rise thus far has been from melting glaciers. the meltwater from now on is from land. it's melting faster and every drop will add to sea level rise. if a massive piece of glacier from greenland should slide into the ocean, we could see a rise of a meter overnight. maybe more.
when people leave their worthless houses and their jobs; how will they buy or rent on higher ground? they have no job; no house; but still have a mortgage. would you rent to them?

like i said; you have to take everything into account. neither the scientists nor the people living in coastal reagons have thought about that.

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Please... you CAN'T be serious. Do you think someone is going to stick around and DROWN because their house won't sell?
Just because you believe you will be one of the 1/3 of the global population to survive doesn't mean the other 2/3 would rather die than deal with financial ruin.

ForestBrain

I don't believe in global warming, but I do believe there could be a heck of a lot more done to keep the world clean. It's a stinkin' garbage can right now.

Cosmo

ForestBrain wrote:

I don't believe in global warming, but I do believe there could be a heck of a lot more done to keep the world clean. It's a stinkin' garbage can right now.

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Exactly. Even if there is no way to stop global warming... how about cleaning up the shit we have to live in? What's wrong with conservation? What's wrong with battling air and water pollution?
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The only thing opponents can come up with... money. It's because it'll cost them more money.

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

..
Please... you CAN'T be serious. Do you think someone is going to stick around and DROWN because their house won't sell?
Just because you believe you will be one of the 1/3 of the global population to survive doesn't mean the other 2/3 would rather die than deal with financial ruin.

you completely missed the point. i'm saying that the houses will be worthless. they will have to be abandoned. and those people will evacuate and many will face financial ruin. they'll end up in a tent on government land eating government cheeze.
those 2/3 will try their best to survive. i see most of them dying from starvation and disease. this is an opinion board and that is my opinion based on the information i know. whether you believe it or not is irrevelant to me.

onelongsong

ForestBrain wrote:

I don't believe in global warming, but I do believe there could be a heck of a lot more done to keep the world clean. It's a stinkin' garbage can right now.

that's like saying you don't believe in air. has half the worlds ice melted in the last 7 years? YES. are corals dying because the water is deeper and the sun can't reach them? YES. are the indian islands preparing to evacuate because of rising sea level? YES. are islands off new guinea currently evacuating because of rising sea levels? yes has the worlds 3 largest lakes (in africa) evaporated into mud puddles. YES.
towns in alaska have already been evacuated. would you like me to go on?
i don't think i should have to.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

you completely missed the point. i'm saying that the houses will be worthless. they will have to be abandoned. and those people will evacuate and many will face financial ruin. they'll end up in a tent on government land eating government cheeze.
those 2/3 will try their best to survive. i see most of them dying from starvation and disease. this is an opinion board and that is my opinion based on the information i know. whether you believe it or not is irrevelant to me.

...
Boy.. you really want that to happen, don't you? Why is that? So, you can hide in your little bunker and say, 'I told you so'?
People aren't as stupid as you want them to be... and are not as selfish as you appear to be. Maybe, in times of dire need... people will offer help to others. I know I would. I would never put a bullet through the face of a stranger in fear of him taking my ration of food. I would hope that I would share what little i have because the value of life is more improtant than the value of dollars. I think that a lot of people share my view... more than your little armed encampment in the middle of the desert.

theroachman

onelongsong wrote:

that's like saying you don't believe in air. has half the worlds ice melted in the last 7 years? YES. are corals dying because the water is deeper and the sun can't reach them? YES. are the indian islands preparing to evacuate because of rising sea level? YES. are islands off new guinea currently evacuating because of rising sea levels? yes has the worlds 3 largest lakes (in africa) evaporated into mud puddles. YES.
towns in alaska have already been evacuated. would you like me to go on?
i don't think i should have to.

See but the deniers do not live there. These hardships faced by faceless people in a far away land have no direct impact on the lives of those who need to drive their SUVs to the grocery store to pick up one item.

I challenge anyone who does not believe to go to Alaska and see the melting of the permafrost. Go to Glacier National Park and witness for yourself the disappearing glaciers. It does not take a scientist to tell me that things are not ok.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

has the worlds 3 largest lakes (in africa) evaporated into mud puddles. YES.
towns in alaska have already been evacuated. would you like me to go on?
i don't think i should have to.

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More utter bullshit.
Lake Victoria (the largest lake in Africa) in NOT a mud puddle.
http://encarta.msn.com/map_701514012/Victoria_Lake.html

Neither is Lake Tangenyka or Lake Malawi.
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And those towns in Alaska? You even say 'evacuated'. The people didn't die... they left.

theroachman

Cosmo wrote:

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More utter bullshit.
Lake Victoria (the largest lake in Africa) in NOT a mud puddle.
http://encarta.msn.com/map_701514012/Victoria_Lake.html

Neither is Lake Tangenyka or Lake Malawi.
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And those towns in Alaska? You even say 'evacuated'. The people didn't die... they left.

Um so those who lost there homes are happy they lost there homes then?

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
Boy.. you really want that to happen, don't you? Why is that? So, you can hide in your little bunker and say, 'I told you so'?
People aren't as stupid as you want them to be... and are not as selfish as you appear to be. Maybe, in times of dire need... people will offer help to others. I know I would. I would never put a bullet through the face of a stranger in fear of him taking my ration of food. I would hope that I would share what little i have because the value of life is more improtant than the value of dollars. I think that a lot of people share my view... more than your little armed encampment in the middle of the desert.

i don't want it to happen. if people don't change, that's what my model says will happen.
you would think people would share; but the truth is; people will kill eachother over a piece of toast when there's no food to be had. i put people killing eachother as the forth bigest cause of death.

and who's in the desert? i'm in the mountains. my land has 6 springs and 2 fishing ponds. that doesn't sound like desert to me.

Cosmo

theroachman wrote:

Um so those who lost there homes are happy they lost there homes then?

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Of course they are not happy about. But they weren't stupid enough to continue living in them til they drowned, were they?
And they will live... probably not to the same standards... but, losing one's home does not automatically mean death.

Jeanie

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/03/asia/pacific.php#end_main

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/climate-change/impacts/sea_level_rise

http://members.aol.com/scipioiv/glacierwarming.html

http://www.spc.int/piocean/forum/Monday/6%20-%20Cook%20Islands%20Statement.pdf

MichaelMcKevin

onelongsong wrote:

i beg to differ. that same study predicted a certain amount of ice to be melted by 2050. that ice melted earlier this year.
the problem is that scientists make predictions based on their own field and constants. however; nature isn't constant. when you warm water; it may take 15 minutes to raise the temperature 1 degree; however; it may only take 10 minutes to raise it another degree. in the last 4 times the earth delt with global warming; the ice melted within a decade. a recent expedition to a melted area showed ferns and other tropical plants in core samples taken from the ocean floor.
our biggest fear should be a rise of 7*F because at that temperature; the frozen methane pockets around the world will melt. and; at that temperature; native plants will be dead and decaying causing more methane.
HOWEVER; after that the oceans will no longer circulate and we will delve into an ice age. when our ice caps return we will stabilize but for those who survive; the earth will be a totally different place.

If sea level is rising between 1-2mm/yr and temp is increasing at about 0.5*F per year, you think that sea level will be the first to have a serious detrimental effect?

Can I see a website or some kind of credible evidence that the fall of this glacier will rise the sea level by an entire meter overnight?

Also, just curious what you do for a living?

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

i don't want it to happen. if people don't change, that's what my model says will happen.
you would think people would share; but the truth is; people will kill eachother over a piece of toast when there's no food to be had. i put people killing eachother as the forth bigest cause of death.

and who's in the desert? i'm in the mountains. my land has 6 springs and 2 fishing ponds. that doesn't sound like desert to me.

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Your model... your studies... your research. admit it... you don't have a model. I bet you base your opinions on programs you see on Discovery's 'Mega Disasters'. I'd looove to see your research some day. But, I'm betting they are non-existant... or live inside a television screen.
And mountains or desert or where ever you and your gang of gun toting neighbors live. Good. Stay up there in isolation and shoot anyone who wanders too closely to your paranoia.
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The bulk of the Earth's land mass will not disappear due to rising sea levels. The climatic atmosphere will change and so will weather systems. If anything is going to knock off large numbers of people... it'll be a catostrophic event, such as an asteroid collision or deadly airborne virus.
but, in a long, drawn out process that covers 50 years... people will adapt by changing.
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P.S.
Make sure you set aside that 200,000 dollars you are going to owe JeffB that says he will be dead and you won't be able to buy cigarettes from a 7-11 five years from now.

Cosmo

Jeanie wrote:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/03/asia/pacific.php#end_main

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/climate-change/impacts/sea_level_rise

http://members.aol.com/scipioiv/glacierwarming.html

http://www.spc.int/piocean/forum/Monday/6%20-%20Cook%20Islands%20Statement.pdf

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No one is denying rising sea levels, glacial collapes or global warming. We all pretty much agree it is happening.
It's the wiping out of 2/3s of the Earth's human population (4,400,000,000 people) that we contend.

Jeanie

Cosmo wrote:

...
No one is denying rising sea levels, glacial collapes or global warming. We all pretty much agree it is happening.
It's the wiping out of 2/3s of the Earth's human population (4,400,000,000 people) that we contend.

Yes, I see. So vehemently and at Christmas too.

Merry Christmas Cosmo.

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
Your model... your studies... your research. admit it... you don't have a model. I bet you base your opinions on programs you see on Discovery's 'Mega Disasters'. I'd looove to see your research some day. But, I'm betting they are non-existant... or live inside a television screen.
And mountains or desert or where ever you and your gang of gun toting neighbors live. Good. Stay up there in isolation and shoot anyone who wanders too closely to your paranoia.
...
The bulk of the Earth's land mass will not disappear due to rising sea levels. The climatic atmosphere will change and so will weather systems. If anything is going to knock off large numbers of people... it'll be a catostrophic event, such as an asteroid collision or deadly airborne virus.
but, in a long, drawn out process that covers 50 years... people will adapt by changing.
...
P.S.
Make sure you set aside that 200,000 dollars you are going to owe JeffB that says he will be dead and you won't be able to buy cigarettes from a 7-11 five years from now.

i'm basically retired. i watch buffalo eat. so i've got all the time in the world to do studies and mess with the computer and do things like that. i've posted my results and predicted the ice amount to be melted this year; last year. the scientists predicted that ice to melt by 2050. i was right. you can't explain that can you? you only want to lash out from jelousy or some reason.
talk to others and see what else i've been dead on about. i don't want to play these silly games with you. if you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything. i haven't said anything negative about you. what's your problem? i've said it over and over. this is an opinion board. i post my opinions. i see no need for you to act like a child.

theroachman

This is a good site for arm chair deniers.

plenty of comparison photos to enjoy

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/index.html

theroachman

onelongsong wrote:

i'm basically retired. i watch buffalo eat. so i've got all the time in the world to do studies and mess with the computer and do things like that. i've posted my results and predicted the ice amount to be melted this year; last year. the scientists predicted that ice to melt by 2050. i was right. you can't explain that can you? you only want to lash out from jelousy or some reason.
talk to others and see what else i've been dead on about. i don't want to play these silly games with you. if you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything. i haven't said anything negative about you. what's your problem? i've said it over and over. this is an opinion board. i post my opinions. i see no need for you to act like a child.

Sounds like a fantastic place you live in fantastic. Too many cookie cutter homes in poorly built subdivisions in my neighborhood now to see the stars anymore.

And you may be out of the rat race but you certainly do not sound retired to me.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

i'm basically retired. i watch buffalo eat. so i've got all the time in the world to do studies and mess with the computer and do things like that. i've posted my results and predicted the ice amount to be melted this year; last year. the scientists predicted that ice to melt by 2050. i was right. you can't explain that can you? you only want to lash out from jelousy or some reason.
talk to others and see what else i've been dead on about. i don't want to play these silly games with you. if you have nothing nice to say; don't say anything. i haven't said anything negative about you. what's your problem? i've said it over and over. this is an opinion board. i post my opinions. i see no need for you to act like a child.

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I am a skeptic by nature. I place a lot of weight on facts... and facts present a compelling arguement in my book. So, since you have already posted the results of your research... simply point me towards them so that I, and others reading this, can read and validate your studies. I do not believe they exist because I have not personally witnessed anything you claim to possess that back up your "opinions". It's the same reason I will argue with a person who tells me that their religion is the "truth". That is a relative truth, not an absolute. And if others here have read them... point me towards them and maybe they can point me towards your research.
And, trust me... jealousy of unsustantiated claims is not part of my nature. I question things.... but, I do not question facts. If, as you state, these are opinions... state them as such instead of claiming them to be factual data. Show us the factual data. I do not argue against facts. For example, I will argue your "opinions" on such things as the 3 largest lakes in Africa have evaporated into mud puddles because the facts say otherwise. So, why should anyone agree with your claims of the mass extiction of 4.4 billion people?
Will people be displaced due to rising sea levels? Yes. But, it does not spell out 4.4 billion deaths. Rising sea levels is not in the arguement. It is your assumption that it will cause the deaths of 2/3 of the global population that I find not credible.
So, point me towards your studies... your research... your technical data and your model and I will read them. If you present a compelling arguement with factual data... I promise you... I will make an public acknowledgement that I was wrong and your are right. And just to let you know, when I make a promise... I keep it. THAT is part of my nature.