Over 400 Scientists disput global warming

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

...
"There is no single cause for the disappearance of Lake Chad.
Global warming is one factor blamed and local people say rainfall has been steadily reducing by about five to 10mm a year.
Other factors include irrigation and the damming of rivers feeding the lake for hydro-electric schemes, which have all combined to devastating effect.
"Desertification is moving southwards," said William Bata Ndahi, director of the Lake Chad Research Institute.
"The water is moving further and further away. We believe desertification has contributed most to the demise of Lake Chad."

"This lake has to be saved; we know the benefit; we know how people have suffered; we know what we have lost."
Wakil Bakar
Lake Chad Basin Commission

Global Warming is a contributing factor, yes.. but, I think if you dig deeper into the cause, you will probably find the root problem is the lake being shared by the countries of Niger, Chad, Cameroon and Nigeria and mismanagement and national selfishness (usage, waste, irrigation and dams) are the main culprits.

because of the heat; the rain is evaporating before it hits the ground. there's a name for this phenominon but it escapes me at the moment.

onelongsong

stu gee wrote:

Maybe i am. I just think for example that if the results of findings between two equally brainy scientists can differ so greatly, how do you know who to believe, or pay attention to even.

i'm not asking anyone to believe me. i've posted over and over for the past years that people need to look at the evidence and make their own decisions. i've posted the reasons for my findings; but i don't want you to believe them. i want you to be interested enough to look at it for yourself and make your own logical decision.

Come Back in Black

If you dont agree then read articles like this.... They say that man is having such a huge impact and sensible people get concerned...then they say that farting animals are even worse...Humans have been raising cattle for thousands of years... and people have also killed off many of the earths larger animals. Before the rise of man there were many many more larger farting animals then cattle giving off their green house gasses. You cant have it both ways... You cant say that humans are having this huge effect and then turn around and say farting animals are even worse... some fruitcakes will try and stop the cattle industry but anyone with common sense will realize that humans must not be that bad after all.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=warming

SundaySilence

godpt3 wrote:

I read that originally, most scientists didn't believe that the earth was round and that the earth was the center of the universe, so why should we believe them any more now?

I read that the same person who developed the scientific method was making estimates of the radius of the earth by measuring variations in shadows down a well. Sailors knew the earth was round by the way ships came over the horizon. It was unscientific folk such as yourself who walked around thinking the world is flat.

Since then they've put a man on the moon, eradicated smallpox, and split the atom. Why would you not listen to them?

onelongsong

Come Back in Black wrote:

If you dont agree then read articles like this.... They say that man is having such a huge impact and sensible people get concerned...then they say that farting animals are even worse...Humans have been raising cattle for thousands of years... and people have also killed off many of the earths larger animals. Before the rise of man there were many many more larger farting animals then cattle giving off their green house gasses. You cant have it both ways... You cant say that humans are having this huge effect and then turn around and say farting animals are even worse... some fruitcakes will try and stop the cattle industry but anyone with common sense will realize that humans must not be that bad after all.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=warming

close yourself in a garage with a farting cow for a bit; then close yourself in that same garage with a running automobile for that same amount of time.
you'll easily find out which is worse.

if people would be aware of the pollution they produce for 1 bloody day; there wouldn't be a question. that banana peel you just threw away will decompose in a landfill and produce enough methane to produce a flame for a brief second. people have no idea about the amount of pollution they produce and that's the problem. all the scientists now are specialized and their findings are primarily based on their field of expertise.
i compiled all that information but nobody listens to me.

sexysurfergirl

onelongsong wrote:

close yourself in a garage with a farting cow for a bit; then close yourself in that same garage with a running automobile for that same amount of time.
you'll easily find out which is worse.

if people would be aware of the pollution they produce for 1 bloody day; there wouldn't be a question. that banana peel you just threw away will decompose in a landfill and produce enough methane to produce a flame for a brief second. people have no idea about the amount of pollution they produce and that's the problem. all the scientists now are specialized and their findings are primarily based on their field of expertise.
i compiled all that information but nobody listens to me.

hiya darling im back for a while...(emails)
i here you, but then thats a given
xxxxxx

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

because of the heat; the rain is evaporating before it hits the ground. there's a name for this phenominon but it escapes me at the moment.

...
Or it could be the dams on the rivers that feed the lake... or it could be the overuse of irrigation... or it could be the overuse of water the lake is feeding.
There are more than one contribution factors to this and simply saying that Lake Chad is drying up soley because of Global Warming is a false statement.

Jeanie

Cosmo wrote:

...
Or it could be the dams on the rivers that feed the lake... or it could be the overuse of irrigation... or it could be the overuse of water the lake is feeding.
There are more than one contribution factors to this and simply saying that Lake Chad is drying up soley because of Global Warming is a false statement.

Says who??? Given the lack of consensus amongst scientists on this issue it would equally fair to say that your assertion that there is more than one contributing factor could be just as false a statement. Face it cosmo NO ONE knows who is right or wrong here. Only time is going to tell us that.

Cosmo

Jeanie wrote:

Says who???

...
A: William Bata Ndahi, director of the Lake Chad Research Institute.

Jeanie

Cosmo wrote:

...
A: William Bata Ndahi, director of the Lake Chad Research Institute.

So he's the be all and end all then?

No chance his comments, views, opinions and even maybe research have been bought, sold, politicized or misrepresented.

What's his qualification then? Besides being director?

Cosmo

Jeanie wrote:

So he's the be all and end all then?

No chance his comments, views, opinions and even maybe research have been bought, sold, politicized or misrepresented.

What's his qualification then? Besides being director?

...
"Lake Chad is disappearing for two reasons: (1) natural — increasing drought and climatic change conditions, and (2) human factors — lack of regulation and massive bad irrigation practices. It is estimated that about one-third of the stream flow today is being diverted from the Chari River before its flow even reaches Lake Chad. Between 1983 and 1994, irrigation water use increased fourfold (Glantz 2004). About 50 percent of the decrease in the lake’s size since the 1960s is attributed to human water use, with the remainder attributed to shifting climate patterns ."
(Source: Coe, M.T. and J.A. Foley. 2001. Human and natural impacts on the water resources of the Lake Chad Basin. Journal of Geophysical Research 106: 3349-3356.
Devitt, Terry. 2001. Under human pressure, Africa’s Lake Chad disappearing. University of Wisconsin News, 27 February).
...
But, I guess you know more about Lake Chad than the Director of the Lake Chad Research institute.

Jeanie

Cosmo wrote:

...
"Lake Chad is disappearing for two reasons: (1) natural — increasing drought and climatic change conditions, and (2) human factors — lack of regulation and massive bad irrigation practices. It is estimated that about one-third of the stream flow today is being diverted from the Chari River before its flow even reaches Lake Chad. Between 1983 and 1994, irrigation water use increased fourfold (Glantz 2004). About 50 percent of the decrease in the lake’s size since the 1960s is attributed to human water use, with the remainder attributed to shifting climate patterns ."
(Source: Devitt 2001; Coe and Foley 2001).
...
But, I guess you know more about Lake Chad than the Director of the Lake Chad Research institute.

I read what was said Cosmo. You've sited one article from ONE man whose qualifications are seemingly unquestionable to you. There's really no need to be flippant or trot out your usual condescension. I asked simple questions that in an open and accountable organization would be published for the public record.
WHAT are the man's qualifications? Who FUNDS this organization? AND I'll say it again because you appear to have a reading comprehension problem who says he's correct?
Of course I'm bound to be wrong to be even asking these questions or daring to question you because we all know you couldn't possibly be wrong.

Cosmo

Jeanie wrote:

I read what was said Cosmo. You've sited one article from ONE man whose qualifications are seemingly unquestionable to you. There's really no need to be flippant or trot out your usual condescension. I asked simple questions that in an open and accountable organization would be published for the public record.
WHAT are the man's qualifications? Who FUNDS this organization? AND I'll say it again because you appear to have a reading comprehension problem who says he's correct?
Of course I'm bound to be wrong to be even asking these questions or daring to question you because we all know you couldn't possibly be wrong.

...
"Because of unrelenting human demand for water, Africa's Lake Chad, once one of the continent's largest bodies of fresh water, has shriveled to a ghost of a great lake.
In a few decades, Lake Chad has shrunk to a size smaller than Great Salt Lake from a surface area the size of Lake Erie, university scientists Michael T. Coe and Jonathan A. Foley write in the Feb. 27 issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research.
"It's about one-twentieth of the size it was 35 years ago," says Coe, who led the NASA-supported study by the Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment. "It's a huge change" from 25,000 square kilometers of surface area in 1963 to 1,350 square kilometers today.
The human need for water, mostly through massive irrigation projects, and the competing demands of the four nations that share the lake, account for almost 30 percent of the observed decrease in lake area since the early 1960s, say Coe and Foley."
"The amount of water diverted to nearby fields over the past 40 years has affected the lake's equilibrium. Add poverty, political instability and national rivalries over a scarce resource to the mix, and a recipe for ecological disaster results, Coe says."
""The Chari River and the lake are the important, life-sustaining systems for this corner of the world," Coe says. "Irrigation activity is significant, and they now have more capacity than they can use because there is less water."
Until about 1979, irrigation had a modest impact on the hydrology of the region. But between 1983 and 1994, the amount of water diverted for irrigation quadrupled over water used for the previous 25 years. In addition to the radically reduced lake surface area, the flow of water from the primary river system that feeds it has decreased by almost 75 percent over the past 40 years."
(Source: Under human pressure, Africa's Lake Chad disappearing - Feb. 27, 2001 by Terry Devitt)
...
Then, question William Bata Ndahi, University scientists Michael T. Coe and Jonathan A. Foley, not me. I'm basing my statements on their research and their findings. They did all of the work in developing their model, not me. I'm just using their findings to base my comments on.
I just happen to find them as more reliable sources as to the reasons of Lake Chad's problems than you. I do this by comparing their credentials against yours and... call me crazy... I choose to believe the Director of the Lake Chad Research Institute and scientist published in the Journal of Geophysical Research rather than some random gal on a Pearl Jam forum.

Jeanie

Cosmo wrote:

...
"Because of unrelenting human demand for water, Africa's Lake Chad, once one of the continent's largest bodies of fresh water, has shriveled to a ghost of a great lake.
In a few decades, Lake Chad has shrunk to a size smaller than Great Salt Lake from a surface area the size of Lake Erie, university scientists Michael T. Coe and Jonathan A. Foley write in the Feb. 27 issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research.
"It's about one-twentieth of the size it was 35 years ago," says Coe, who led the NASA-supported study by the Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment. "It's a huge change" from 25,000 square kilometers of surface area in 1963 to 1,350 square kilometers today.
The human need for water, mostly through massive irrigation projects, and the competing demands of the four nations that share the lake, account for almost 30 percent of the observed decrease in lake area since the early 1960s, say Coe and Foley."
"The amount of water diverted to nearby fields over the past 40 years has affected the lake's equilibrium. Add poverty, political instability and national rivalries over a scarce resource to the mix, and a recipe for ecological disaster results, Coe says."
""The Chari River and the lake are the important, life-sustaining systems for this corner of the world," Coe says. "Irrigation activity is significant, and they now have more capacity than they can use because there is less water."
Until about 1979, irrigation had a modest impact on the hydrology of the region. But between 1983 and 1994, the amount of water diverted for irrigation quadrupled over water used for the previous 25 years. In addition to the radically reduced lake surface area, the flow of water from the primary river system that feeds it has decreased by almost 75 percent over the past 40 years."
(Source: Under human pressure, Africa's Lake Chad disappearing - Feb. 27, 2001 by Terry Devitt)
...
Then, question William Bata Ndahi, University scientists Michael T. Coe and Jonathan A. Foley, not me. I'm basing my statements on their research and their findings. They did all of the work in developing their model, not me. I'm just using their findings to base my comments on.
I just happen to find them as more reliable sources as to the reasons of Lake Chad's problems than you. I do this by comparing their credentials against yours and... call me crazy... I choose to believe the Director of the Lake Chad Research Institute and scientist published in the Journal of Geophysical Research rather than some random gal on a Pearl Jam forum.

You really cannot help yourself can you?

Well I'm not playing. Be how you are cosmo all caught up in your own cleverness and completely incapable of answering the question. And I'll be some random girl on a pj forum who's just stupid enough to question the credibility of most people especially you.

Cosmo

Jeanie wrote:

You really cannot help yourself can you?

Well I'm not playing. Be how you are cosmo all caught up in your own cleverness and completely incapable of answering the question. And I'll be some random girl on a pj forum who's just stupid enough to question the credibility of most people especially you.

...
I'm providing sourced statements... all you are doing is whining.
You want credentials... the guy is the Director of the Lake Chad Research Institute. And he based his estimations and assessments on the NASA funded 2001 report from Michael T. Coe Ph.D. - University of Wisconsin-Madison - 1997, Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences and Jon Foley, Director of the Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment (SAGE) at the University of Wisconsin, where he is also the Gaylord Nelson Distinguished Professor of Environmental Studies and Atmospheric & Oceanic Sciences.
I think that if taken the two... comments made from William Bata Ndahi based upon his assessments of the findings of a NASA funded project as to the reasons why Lake Chad was shrinking by university scientists... and you... most reasonable people will come to the conclusion that you are the less credible source.
If you can sight a report that contradicts their report... then, please, direct me to them and I'll compare their finding with Coe and Foley's.
You can go ahead and question them all you want... all I'm saying is that they would probably have a bit more insight on the Lake Chad problem than you would.

stu gee

onelongsong wrote:

i'm not asking anyone to believe me. i've posted over and over for the past years that people need to look at the evidence and make their own decisions. i've posted the reasons for my findings; but i don't want you to believe them. i want you to be interested enough to look at it for yourself and make your own logical decision.

My logical decision is that i dont see any more evidence supporting the theory that you hold, than evidence supporting the theory opposite to yours. I am interested in it and think im fairly conscious about environmental issues but i just dont fully believe that the situation is as drastic as many people make out.

callen

stu gee wrote:

My logical decision is that i dont see any more evidence supporting the theory that you hold, than evidence supporting the theory opposite to yours. I am interested in it and think im fairly conscious about environmental issues but i just dont fully believe that the situation is as drastic as many people make out.

it is comforting to deny a problem....we all do it...myself included....in the end it won't really matter..the world will go on...the universe will go on...but the earth as we know if today will be gone...we need population control...serious population control...but that may not happen....sad all those beautiful creatures that have evolved through the ages are being wiped off the face of the earth.

stu gee

callen wrote:

it is comforting to deny a problem....we all do it...myself included....in the end it won't really matter..the world will go on...the universe will go on...but the earth as we know if today will be gone...we need population control...serious population control...but that may not happen....sad all those beautiful creatures that have evolved through the ages are being wiped off the face of the earth.

Im not denying anything. Im just not totally convinced by it all.

farfromglorified

callen wrote:

it is comforting to deny a problem....we all do it...myself included....in the end it won't really matter..the world will go on...the universe will go on...but the earth as we know if today will be gone...

Hehe...of course it will. What makes you think that the "earth as we know it" shouldn't "be gone"? At what point in history did the "world as [something] knows it" not end up gone?

we need population control...serious population control...but that may not happen....sad all those beautiful creatures that have evolved through the ages are being wiped off the face of the earth.

What is "sad" about it? 99.9% of the "creatures" that have "evolved through the ages" were "wiped off the face of the earth" before mankind even arrived on the scene. Are you "sad" about that? Human civilization did not invent instinction, nor do we hold some kind of monopoly on it.

The logic here just baffles me. Certainly humanity should stive to live harmoniously with the planet and the specific environments that make our existence possible, but this absolutely ridiculous logic stating that mankind should make no impact on the earth or the other living things that share the planet with us defies all sound reason.

Jeanie

Cosmo wrote:

...
I'm providing sourced statements... all you are doing is whining.
You want credentials... the guy is the Director of the Lake Chad Research Institute. And he based his estimations and assessments on the NASA funded 2001 report from Michael T. Coe Ph.D. - University of Wisconsin-Madison - 1997, Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences and Jon Foley, Director of the Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment (SAGE) at the University of Wisconsin, where he is also the Gaylord Nelson Distinguished Professor of Environmental Studies and Atmospheric & Oceanic Sciences.
I think that if taken the two... comments made from William Bata Ndahi based upon his assessments of the findings of a NASA funded project as to the reasons why Lake Chad was shrinking by university scientists... and you... most reasonable people will come to the conclusion that you are the less credible source.
If you can sight a report that contradicts their report... then, please, direct me to them and I'll compare their finding with Coe and Foley's.
You can go ahead and question them all you want... all I'm saying is that they would probably have a bit more insight on the Lake Chad problem than you would.

What's the matter?? Frightened I'll take all the hot air space away from you?
I like how if it's my assessment it's shite but if it's yours it's gotta be so much smarter than the average bears! Fat head much?