Bottom line... War should be something you are forced into, not something you choose to do.
We were forced into the 1991 Gulf War by pleas from the Arab neighbors in response to Hussein's invasion/occupation of Kuwait. We were foced to go into Afghanistan after the Taliban stood in defiance to protect Usama Bin Laden's al Qaeda network. We chose to go into Iraq. There is a big difference.
I believe the first Gulf War was manipulated by Hussein's CIA "trusted". He got fooled into believing he could get away with it. By operatives from the USA.
i understand the question well. I think I was one of the first to propose (on these message boards in 2003) that fighting age men in support of the war need put their money-makers where their mouths are.
and the flip side to that nonsense is those not supporting the government's position should go live in the country they don't want to fight.
Gee que, it's easy being simple minded.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I believe the first Gulf War was manipulated by Hussein's CIA "trusted". He got fooled into believing he could get away with it. By operatives from the USA.
Just my theory.
...
I don't know about that. I understood that Hussein truely believed that Kuwait was actually a part of Iraq and that the West would not interfere with his 'reclaiming what was once his'.
Hopefully, the truth will be told to us... some day.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm sure it beats that paper route you've been working. And could you do me a huge favor and try making your point without becoming belligerent? I'm sure you are capable of doing that. Otherwise, you only prove that fervent peace activism truly is the result of malignant childishness.
I'm sure it beats that paper route you've been working. And could you do me a huge favor and try making your point without becoming belligerent? I'm sure you are capable of doing that. Otherwise, you only prove that fervent peace activism truly is the result of malignant childishness.
Then contribute to the diatribe. If you want to be resentful and defensive it only relfects on your intentions.
Then contribute to the diatribe. If you want to be resentful and defensive it only relfects on your intentions.
Of being an asshole.
It's easy being an asshole. Anyone can do that.
"Resentful" and "defensive" are good words to use to your advantage. Too bad they don't really apply....especially when you're the one slinging the insults around.
I'd expand my argument if you did too. I believe both sides are BS. Tell me why the hawks/doves are right... then I'll write a five page thesis why I disagree.
I'd expand my argument if you did too. I believe both sides are BS. Tell me why the hawks/doves are right... then I'll write a five page thesis why I disagree.
You're not that good.
Besides, if you had been paying attention, my "thesis" is underwritten by the likes of people like you.
"Resentful" and "defensive" are good words to use to your advantage. Too bad they don't really apply....especially when you're the one slinging the insults around.
I'm not...against you, sponger. I want to be your lover. I feel the fever.
Besides, if you had been paying attention, my "thesis" is underwritten by the likes of people like you.
People like me... hey man, now I feel bad. You really burned me. Because I really give a shit when some two-bit Israeli wannabe political theorist starts getting high and mighty like he could have his own show on FOX news.
People like me... hey man, now I feel bad. You really burned me. Because I really give a shit when some two-bit Israeli wannabe political theorist starts getting high and mighty like he could have his own show on FOX news.
Man, you're reaching.
Do you and Hannity personally handjob each other, or is it hired help?
Why PM when we can have our pissing match right here? Personally I look forward to making you look like a fool publicly.
To tell you the truth, I don't "dislike" you as much as I dislike your posts. I didn't give two shits about gue barium until you said this:
That was pretty much the only time you've said something that really set me off.
Now it's time for the pissing match.
EDIT: I like the smiley at the top of your post. I like happy posts.
No pissing match here. I don't do pissing matches, so you just lost your own pissing match to yourself.
The framework of this thread is built on the idea that one can or cannot support war while not participating in it as a soldier themselves.
I brought forth the idea that when push comes to shove, in the real sense, not this Bush agenda shit, most of us are going to fight for home, we're going to fight for America, together. And we do, and we will.
No, no, I don't believe in war. I realize, though, that sometimes it has to happen.
But in the case of THIS particular war, I don't believe it had to happen. And I don't believe it should continue.
So, no, I wouldn't join the military if I was young enough to, and no, I don't want my nephew to be in it, but it's too late for me to tell him so. He joined up. That's that.
Now I just sit back and pray he doesn't get killed, or worse.
We can all argue back and forth on this message board until our soldiers come home.....but we have the luxury of doing so. They don't.
The framework of this thread is built on the idea that one can or cannot support war while not participating in it as a soldier themselves.
Yeah, and I call BS. I gave you my opinion. Usually what happens next is "Yeah I agree" or "No yur dumb and here's why". I got "No yur dumb" but not the "here's why."
=gue]I brought forth the idea that when push comes to shove, in the real sense, not this Bush agenda shit, most of us are going to fight for home, we're going to fight for America, together. And we do, and we will.
If anyone in here supports this war, they're probably too old to actually go to the front lines. It's ridiculous to say that some 50-year-old fat lady should go to the front lines because she wants the war to continue. Philosophically, yeah OK. But practically speaking I don't think your opinion makes any sense. How about this:
"If you support this war and you are of military service age (18 to 35) then you should go fight for America."
I'll agree with that because it has practical meaning.
Do you and Hannity personally handjob each other, or is it hired help?"
It seems to me like you wanted to start an argument. Then you kind of petered out.
Yeah, and I call BS. I gave you my opinion. Usually what happens next is "Yeah I agree" or "No yur dumb and here's why". I got "No yur dumb" but not the "here's why."
If anyone in here supports this war, they're probably too old to actually go to the front lines. It's ridiculous to say that some 50-year-old fat lady should go to the front lines because she wants the war to continue. Philosophically, yeah OK. But practically speaking I don't think your opinion makes any sense. How about this:
"If you support this war and you are of military service age (18 to 35) then you should go fight for America."
I'll agree with that because it has practical meaning.
But, you didn't give your argument. You chose to be a:
Wait.
Wait.
I think you're your own person. Does this mean you're immune from the country you call home when it comes to war, as long as people are volunteering?
Do you know what it feels like to give all that you are for your country? To fight? There is a sentiment for that to me. I served in the marine corps. I chose the marines because they were the toughest.
Being a Pearl Jam girl in the early 90's meant to me that i could get laid without feeling too particularly attached, yet demand a strong sexual performance from my partner.
Make up your mind! Are you or are you not a woman? :-)
But, you didn't give your argument. You chose to be a:
Wait.
Wait.
I think you're your own person. Does this mean you're immune from the country you call home when it comes to war, as long as people are volunteering?
Do you know what it feels like to give all that you are for your country? To fight? There is a sentiment for that to me. I served in the marine corps. I chose the marines because they were the toughest.
Honestly I don't know what you're saying... I like being unafiliated, aka sitting on the fence. I'm not "immune from my own country", but I won't tell people what to do based on pro/anti war status. (go fight/get out)
I don't know if that paragraph made any sense. I think it's okay to care about yourself and your family and not get involved with the war. I think peace would be great, but I'll never tell a man to go to hell if he disagrees with me.
While I didn't read all 7 pages of this thread, here's my input...
I realize that serving in the military isn't a realistic option for some supporters of war, but I do think that in order to support the war, you should really think about how you value it compare to your own life or your family's lives. Is the cause something that you feel so strongly about (strong enough to send other people's children to potential death) that you would be perfectly happy if your child or spouse decided to fight in the war, or if it came down to it, that you would risk your life for the cause (whatever that maybe)?
If you answered "no" to any of those questions, then I don't believe that you have the right to sit in the safety of your home and be content with other's dying for your wishes.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
What is the general consensus of the troops over there actually risking their lives?
ne one?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
What is the general consensus of the troops over there actually risking their lives?
ne one?
...
The Answer: It depends.
It all depends on who you ask.
From a personal perspective... I know of several Army Reservists and National Guardsmen and Marine Reservists who left the services after serving 3 tours. it has nothing to do with anything other than getting burnt out. 8 to 12 months away from your family... your friends... your job... 3 times, with small periods of R&R between... it takes its toll on even the most dedicated soldier. Nothing to do with patriotism or courage or anything... except, they got burnt out because of the rotation.
The bad part about all of that... the Army and Marines lose a hell of a lot of experience. You lose a Captain or Lieutenant or Sargent and you lose leadership as well as battle tested experience in the field. I understand the military's 'Stop Gap' policy (although I do not agree with it). Our military force could use that leadership and battle experience in Iraq, but I don't think it should be up to us to decide for them. If their time is up, that should be their call, not mine... or yours... or even our President's call to make.
We have burdened these fighting men and women with a difficult task as we sit at home and feel none of their pain. What sacrifices have you and I made in this 'War Effort'? Lip service about 'Supporting The Troops'? Little magnets Made In China on the backs of our gas guzzling cars? How's the gas rationing going where you are? What about the increased taxes you are paying to fund this war? This is not a WE war... this is a THEM war... where THEM are the military personel and their families. They are carrying all the weight... the rest of us are just sitting on our comfortable, cushy asses.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
While I didn't read all 7 pages of this thread, here's my input...
I realize that serving in the military isn't a realistic option for some supporters of war, but I do think that in order to support the war, you should really think about how you value it compare to your own life or your family's lives. Is the cause something that you feel so strongly about (strong enough to send other people's children to potential death) that you would be perfectly happy if your child or spouse decided to fight in the war, or if it came down to it, that you would risk your life for the cause (whatever that maybe)?
If you answered "no" to any of those questions, then I don't believe that you have the right to sit in the safety of your home and be content with other's dying for your wishes.
first of all you were wise not to read this whole thread. most of it has been ridiculous.
but you have captured my feelings during my conversation with my son. he views it differently, but he's young and, well, we just disagree on this topic. i can see his side when he says "well, not everyone can go to war. some have to stay put and support it in other ways."
i still say people jump to quickly to support a war just because it shows patriotism or because our president/government says it's the right thing to do. there is so much more to consider. like, is waging this war really protecting my country and it's freedoms? is it really worth this great loss of life? what pricetag do you put on a soldiers life? innocent civilian's lives?
i'm no "John Lennon". i know some wars are unavoidable. but i believe some are and as citizens of a free country we need to become more educated and question our governments motives and make rational decisions not based on pride or anger or fear.
Comments
I believe the first Gulf War was manipulated by Hussein's CIA "trusted". He got fooled into believing he could get away with it. By operatives from the USA.
Just my theory.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Gee que, it's easy being simple minded.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
There is nothing simple-minded about taking the oath to fight and die.
Get that through your thick skull.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I don't know about that. I understood that Hussein truely believed that Kuwait was actually a part of Iraq and that the West would not interfere with his 'reclaiming what was once his'.
Hopefully, the truth will be told to us... some day.
Hail, Hail!!!
Ok... this is the flip side:
"If you are against this war, you are dissenting from our way of life and our government. Therefore, move to Canada- or better yet- Iraq!"
Both sides are BS folks. Fact.
Thanks for the simplification.
You silly willy.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
In no way did my post imply that things are black and white.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
You don't have to.
You're an asshole.
It's a fun occupation, isn't it?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I'm sure it beats that paper route you've been working. And could you do me a huge favor and try making your point without becoming belligerent? I'm sure you are capable of doing that. Otherwise, you only prove that fervent peace activism truly is the result of malignant childishness.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Heehee.
I guess I am King here, if that's the best you can throw.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Then contribute to the diatribe. If you want to be resentful and defensive it only relfects on your intentions.
Of being an asshole.
It's easy being an asshole. Anyone can do that.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
"Resentful" and "defensive" are good words to use to your advantage. Too bad they don't really apply....especially when you're the one slinging the insults around.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I'd expand my argument if you did too. I believe both sides are BS. Tell me why the hawks/doves are right... then I'll write a five page thesis why I disagree.
You're not that good.
Besides, if you had been paying attention, my "thesis" is underwritten by the likes of people like you.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I'm not...against you, sponger. I want to be your lover. I feel the fever.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
People like me... hey man, now I feel bad. You really burned me. Because I really give a shit when some two-bit Israeli wannabe political theorist starts getting high and mighty like he could have his own show on FOX news.
Man, you're reaching.
Do you and Hannity personally handjob each other, or is it hired help?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I don't know, maybe if you got off Bill's half-flaccid flagpole long enough to take a good look at yourself, you wouldn't be so cocky.
I'm glad you like my cockiness.
I suppose at this point you may have asked yourself, subconsciously, "how can this guy be so cocky?"
The answer will be yours.
When you PM me.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Why PM when we can have our pissing match right here? Personally I look forward to making you look like a fool publicly.
To tell you the truth, I don't "dislike" you as much as I dislike your posts. I didn't give two shits about gue barium until you said this:
That was pretty much the only time you've said something that really set me off.
Now it's time for the pissing match.
EDIT: I like the smiley at the top of your post. I like happy posts.
No pissing match here. I don't do pissing matches, so you just lost your own pissing match to yourself.
The framework of this thread is built on the idea that one can or cannot support war while not participating in it as a soldier themselves.
I brought forth the idea that when push comes to shove, in the real sense, not this Bush agenda shit, most of us are going to fight for home, we're going to fight for America, together. And we do, and we will.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
No, no, I don't believe in war. I realize, though, that sometimes it has to happen.
But in the case of THIS particular war, I don't believe it had to happen. And I don't believe it should continue.
So, no, I wouldn't join the military if I was young enough to, and no, I don't want my nephew to be in it, but it's too late for me to tell him so. He joined up. That's that.
Now I just sit back and pray he doesn't get killed, or worse.
We can all argue back and forth on this message board until our soldiers come home.....but we have the luxury of doing so. They don't.
Think about it.
This looked like the start of a pissing match:
"Man, you're reaching.
Do you and Hannity personally handjob each other, or is it hired help?"
It seems to me like you wanted to start an argument. Then you kind of petered out.
Yeah, and I call BS. I gave you my opinion. Usually what happens next is "Yeah I agree" or "No yur dumb and here's why". I got "No yur dumb" but not the "here's why."
If anyone in here supports this war, they're probably too old to actually go to the front lines. It's ridiculous to say that some 50-year-old fat lady should go to the front lines because she wants the war to continue. Philosophically, yeah OK. But practically speaking I don't think your opinion makes any sense. How about this:
"If you support this war and you are of military service age (18 to 35) then you should go fight for America."
I'll agree with that because it has practical meaning.
But, you didn't give your argument. You chose to be a:
Wait.
Wait.
I think you're your own person. Does this mean you're immune from the country you call home when it comes to war, as long as people are volunteering?
Do you know what it feels like to give all that you are for your country? To fight? There is a sentiment for that to me. I served in the marine corps. I chose the marines because they were the toughest.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
**Ahem**
Make up your mind! Are you or are you not a woman? :-)
Honestly I don't know what you're saying... I like being unafiliated, aka sitting on the fence. I'm not "immune from my own country", but I won't tell people what to do based on pro/anti war status. (go fight/get out)
I don't know if that paragraph made any sense. I think it's okay to care about yourself and your family and not get involved with the war. I think peace would be great, but I'll never tell a man to go to hell if he disagrees with me.
I realize that serving in the military isn't a realistic option for some supporters of war, but I do think that in order to support the war, you should really think about how you value it compare to your own life or your family's lives. Is the cause something that you feel so strongly about (strong enough to send other people's children to potential death) that you would be perfectly happy if your child or spouse decided to fight in the war, or if it came down to it, that you would risk your life for the cause (whatever that maybe)?
If you answered "no" to any of those questions, then I don't believe that you have the right to sit in the safety of your home and be content with other's dying for your wishes.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
how about the what is?
What is the general consensus of the troops over there actually risking their lives?
ne one?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
The Answer: It depends.
It all depends on who you ask.
From a personal perspective... I know of several Army Reservists and National Guardsmen and Marine Reservists who left the services after serving 3 tours. it has nothing to do with anything other than getting burnt out. 8 to 12 months away from your family... your friends... your job... 3 times, with small periods of R&R between... it takes its toll on even the most dedicated soldier. Nothing to do with patriotism or courage or anything... except, they got burnt out because of the rotation.
The bad part about all of that... the Army and Marines lose a hell of a lot of experience. You lose a Captain or Lieutenant or Sargent and you lose leadership as well as battle tested experience in the field. I understand the military's 'Stop Gap' policy (although I do not agree with it). Our military force could use that leadership and battle experience in Iraq, but I don't think it should be up to us to decide for them. If their time is up, that should be their call, not mine... or yours... or even our President's call to make.
We have burdened these fighting men and women with a difficult task as we sit at home and feel none of their pain. What sacrifices have you and I made in this 'War Effort'? Lip service about 'Supporting The Troops'? Little magnets Made In China on the backs of our gas guzzling cars? How's the gas rationing going where you are? What about the increased taxes you are paying to fund this war? This is not a WE war... this is a THEM war... where THEM are the military personel and their families. They are carrying all the weight... the rest of us are just sitting on our comfortable, cushy asses.
Hail, Hail!!!
first of all you were wise not to read this whole thread. most of it has been ridiculous.
but you have captured my feelings during my conversation with my son. he views it differently, but he's young and, well, we just disagree on this topic. i can see his side when he says "well, not everyone can go to war. some have to stay put and support it in other ways."
i still say people jump to quickly to support a war just because it shows patriotism or because our president/government says it's the right thing to do. there is so much more to consider. like, is waging this war really protecting my country and it's freedoms? is it really worth this great loss of life? what pricetag do you put on a soldiers life? innocent civilian's lives?
i'm no "John Lennon". i know some wars are unavoidable. but i believe some are and as citizens of a free country we need to become more educated and question our governments motives and make rational decisions not based on pride or anger or fear.