The difference is... some people think war is needed and must be fought. Whereas a woman having an abortion may choose to have an abortion but I don't need her to have one nor I feel she must. It's her decision. War involves others people's sacrifice to accomplish what you feel is needed. If you feel it's so necessary to fight wars that you, yourself, won't fight then you're asking others to do what YOU feel is right and needed to be done. It's letting others do the sacrificing while you watch from the sidelines.
The people who join the military, obviously, to some extent, joined because its what THEY felt is needed. Who are you to decided that telling a woman what she can or cant do is wrong, but telling a soldier the same thing is A okay? Our military is voluntary. Remember?
Do you support abortion? If so, you'd better be prepared and willing to go in with a scalpel or some saline solution and go to town. I mean, if you support it, you should be required to actively participate in it, right?
VERY bad comparision.. thats like saying India is at war with Pakistan, but because you side with India's cause, you are going to go over there and fight for them.. The idea here is that the war that is going to directly effect you, your tax dollars, your way of life is at stake.. would you support it if your will to fight wasn't there?
The people who join the military, obviously, to some extent, joined because its what THEY felt is needed. Who are you to decided that telling a woman what she can or cant do is wrong, but telling a soldier the same thing is A okay? Our military is voluntary. Remember?
I'm not telling her it is right or wrong, it's not my business because I don't have any desire for her to get an abortion in the first place. She owns her own desires and backs them up with actions. You have the desire for war to be fought but rely on others to fight it.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm not telling her it is right or wrong, it's not my business because I don't have any desire for her to get an abortion in the first place. She owns her own desires and backs them up with actions. You have the desire for war to be fought but rely on others to fight it.
I have a "desire for war to be fought"? Really? Wow, how'd you do that without making your lips move? I have no desire for war to be fought. Do I accept that sometimes its inevitable? Yes. Big difference. Kinda like you not really DESIRING for women to abort their babies, yet in your view, you accept that its inevitable they will want to, and support their right to do so.
I have a "desire for war to be fought"? Really? Wow, how'd you do that without making your lips move? I have no desire for war to be fought. Do I accept that sometimes its inevitable? Yes. Big difference. Kinda like you not really DESIRING for women to abort their babies, yet in your view, you accept that its inevitable they will want to, and support their right to do so.
do you think the war in iraq should be fought?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I have a "desire for war to be fought"? Really? Wow, how'd you do that without making your lips move? I have no desire for war to be fought. Do I accept that sometimes its inevitable? Yes. Big difference. Kinda like you not really DESIRING for women to abort their babies, yet in your view, you accept that its inevitable they will want to, and support their right to do so.
What, exactly are you arguing now? You have established that the initial abortion post was an attempt at sarcasm. I have a feeling that we are all saying the same thing without actually saying the same thing. War is not ideal, but it is sometimes necessary. Any war that you support, you should also be willing to make a sacrifice for. I still don't know about the abortion analogy, but: "Abortions for All!"
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
Do I think it should have been waged to begin with? Yes. Do I think its been done correctly?> No. Do I think its a lost cause that can't be corrected? No. Do I think the current leadership can fix it? No. Do I think any future leadership can? Im no seer.
What, exactly are you arguing now? You have established that the initial abortion post was an attempt at sarcasm. I have a feeling that we are all saying the same thing without actually saying the same thing. War is not ideal, but it is sometimes necessary. Any war that you support, you should also be willing to make a sacrifice for. I still don't know about the abortion analogy, but: "Abortions for All!"
As stated by others in this thread. It affects my tax dollars, my fellow citizens, my family even. THAT is the sacrifice I make for what I support. I think you're right, we ARE arguing the same point. Just from a different perspective. Not everyone here agrees that sometimes war is necessary. Some live in shiny happy people land, where hugs will suffice.
When two guys with machine guns rob a bank, we expect the SWAT to show up and dispose of them. It's not something I would do personally. It's what police officers are trained and paid to do. It just so happens that soldiering is not my career choice. It was their career choice. And right now in Iraq, they are following their career paths.
When two guys with machine guns rob a bank, we expect the SWAT to show up and dispose of them. It's not something I would do personally. It's what police officers are trained and paid to do. It just so happens that soldiering is not my career choice. It was their career choice. And right now in Iraq, they are following their career paths.
Seems obvious to me.
But logic tends to get thrown out the window when it comes to this topic.
When two guys with machine guns rob a bank, we expect the SWAT to show up and dispose of them. It's not something I would do personally. It's what police officers are trained and paid to do. It just so happens that soldiering is not my career choice. It was their career choice. And right now in Iraq, they are following their career paths.
Thats not the thinking here.. the idea, is not that you are going to stop your life to fight, but if you had the will to fight.. lets put it in terms of tax dollars so the concept is a little easier to understand. If we didn't have to pay taxes, but had to write a check out of our own pockets every week to pay for the war in Iraq, with a choice, would you keep writing that check? Do you have the will to keep the war going at its effect on you??? Its cost to you wether it be your life on the line or your bank account?
You are paying for the war. If you could opt to end it for a $500 tax rebate in exchange would you?
Do I think it should have been waged to begin with? Yes. Do I think its been done correctly?> No. Do I think its a lost cause that can't be corrected? No. Do I think the current leadership can fix it? No. Do I think any future leadership can? Im no seer.
so you want (ie desire) war in iraq? you claim to have a special circumstance in this case saying you tried to join one of the strictest branches on allowing ppl in (outside of special ops or something), the point still remains: if you believe a war should be fought you should be willing to fight for it yourself and it is not remotely close to abortions
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Thats not the thinking here.. the idea, is not that you are going to stop your life to fight, but if you had the will to fight.. lets put it in terms of tax dollars so the concept is a little easier to understand, if we didn't have to pay taxes, but had to write a check out of our own pockets every week to pay for the war in Iraq, would you keep writing that check?
If you didnt have to pay taxes, would you still write checks to foot the bill for the police, even if they never directly protected you?
When two guys with machine guns rob a bank, we expect the SWAT to show up and dispose of them. It's not something I would do personally. It's what police officers are trained and paid to do. It just so happens that soldiering is not my career choice. It was their career choice. And right now in Iraq, they are following their career paths.
so to make your analogy stand...iraq are the robbers...? how did iraq 'rob a bank'?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so you want (ie desire) war in iraq? you claim to have a special circumstance in this case saying you tried to join one of the strictest branches on allowing ppl in (outside of special ops or something), the point still remains: if you believe a war should be fought you should be willing to fight for it yourself and it is not remotely close to abortions
You have "want/desire" confused with "understand its need". I can't help you with that, nor can I argue/debate with you on it, when our definitions of desire are so drastically different.
so to make your analogy stand...iraq are the robbers...? how did iraq 'rob a bank'?
Analogies arent usually intended to be exact replicas of a situation. You're being intentionally obtuse. There's no real point in discussing this topic with you kabong. I respect your resolve, but your mind is as made up as ours, and you have no desire nor intention of seeing anyone else's viewpoint.
You have "want/desire" confused with "understand its need". I can't help you with that, nor can I argue/debate with you on it, when our definitions of desire are so drastically different.
what was the need?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I know I dont. I only know what you critique about others' thoughts. I'm curious...what was the reasoning behind the marines turning you down?
I scored rather high on both the physical and mental tests. I didnt fare well in the psychological tests. Thats about all I care to share with someone who insulted me 20 minutes ago.
As stated by others in this thread. It affects my tax dollars, my fellow citizens, my family even. THAT is the sacrifice I make for what I support. I think you're right, we ARE arguing the same point. Just from a different perspective. Not everyone here agrees that sometimes war is necessary. Some live in shiny happy people land, where hugs will suffice.
I think that mindset is more of a product of this clusterfuck of a war that you guys (Americans) started in Iraq. You would certainly be hard-pressed to find anyone who would say that WW2 was not necessary. I do think that a more direct sacrifice other than tax dollars should be put on the line when you support a war though.
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
There's no real point in discussing this topic with you kabong. I respect your resolve, but your mind is as made up as ours, and you have no desire nor intention of seeing anyone else's viewpoint.
A vicious, ruthless dictator was taken out of power. At the time the war was decided upon, and given the information available, I supported that move. Now that we are there, and its all gone awry, I don't support cut and run, anymore than I'd support going in there now, knowing what we now now.
But if one needs a silver lining, a vicious dictator was taken out of power.
I agree, but who the fuck are you to judge somebody else's decision. They are the ones that have to live with it, not you.
in turn, who the fuck are you to judge his feelings on it? He has as much a right to consider abortion cowardly, as she does to have one. Again, whats good for the goose, is good for the gander.
Analogies arent usually intended to be exact replicas of a situation. You're being intentionally obtuse. There's no real point in discussing this topic with you kabong. I respect your resolve, but your mind is as made up as ours, and you have no desire nor intention of seeing anyone else's viewpoint.
if mine is as made up as yours and others, then you have no intention of seeing the other viewpoint, too, right?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I agree, but who the fuck are you to judge somebody else's decision. They are the ones that have to live with it, not you.
Well...who the fuck are you to judge someones decision to support a war but not actively partcipate in it? They are the ones who have to live with it, not you.
MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
Comments
Thanks for contributing. You are a shining beacon of intelligence in this quagmire of idiocy. Your posts always inspire me.
To vomit.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
The people who join the military, obviously, to some extent, joined because its what THEY felt is needed. Who are you to decided that telling a woman what she can or cant do is wrong, but telling a soldier the same thing is A okay? Our military is voluntary. Remember?
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I'm not telling her it is right or wrong, it's not my business because I don't have any desire for her to get an abortion in the first place. She owns her own desires and backs them up with actions. You have the desire for war to be fought but rely on others to fight it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
At least you know what a quagmire is unlike the conservative assholes you support. They say vomiting cleanses a guilty conscious.....
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
I have a "desire for war to be fought"? Really? Wow, how'd you do that without making your lips move? I have no desire for war to be fought. Do I accept that sometimes its inevitable? Yes. Big difference. Kinda like you not really DESIRING for women to abort their babies, yet in your view, you accept that its inevitable they will want to, and support their right to do so.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
You have no idea what I support. I have a feeling you have no idea in general.
Clue the clueless!
www.myspace.com/jensvad
do you think the war in iraq should be fought?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
What, exactly are you arguing now? You have established that the initial abortion post was an attempt at sarcasm. I have a feeling that we are all saying the same thing without actually saying the same thing. War is not ideal, but it is sometimes necessary. Any war that you support, you should also be willing to make a sacrifice for. I still don't know about the abortion analogy, but: "Abortions for All!"
Do I think it should have been waged to begin with? Yes. Do I think its been done correctly?> No. Do I think its a lost cause that can't be corrected? No. Do I think the current leadership can fix it? No. Do I think any future leadership can? Im no seer.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
As stated by others in this thread. It affects my tax dollars, my fellow citizens, my family even. THAT is the sacrifice I make for what I support. I think you're right, we ARE arguing the same point. Just from a different perspective. Not everyone here agrees that sometimes war is necessary. Some live in shiny happy people land, where hugs will suffice.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Seems obvious to me.
But logic tends to get thrown out the window when it comes to this topic.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Everybody wants to be John Lennon.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
You are paying for the war. If you could opt to end it for a $500 tax rebate in exchange would you?
It's about will.
so you want (ie desire) war in iraq? you claim to have a special circumstance in this case saying you tried to join one of the strictest branches on allowing ppl in (outside of special ops or something), the point still remains: if you believe a war should be fought you should be willing to fight for it yourself and it is not remotely close to abortions
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
If you didnt have to pay taxes, would you still write checks to foot the bill for the police, even if they never directly protected you?
No better an analogy than mine. IMO.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I know I dont. I only know what you critique about others' thoughts. I'm curious...what was the reasoning behind the marines turning you down?
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
so to make your analogy stand...iraq are the robbers...? how did iraq 'rob a bank'?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
You have "want/desire" confused with "understand its need". I can't help you with that, nor can I argue/debate with you on it, when our definitions of desire are so drastically different.
Analogies arent usually intended to be exact replicas of a situation. You're being intentionally obtuse. There's no real point in discussing this topic with you kabong. I respect your resolve, but your mind is as made up as ours, and you have no desire nor intention of seeing anyone else's viewpoint.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Abortion is one of the most cowardly things I can think of.
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
what was the need?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I scored rather high on both the physical and mental tests. I didnt fare well in the psychological tests. Thats about all I care to share with someone who insulted me 20 minutes ago.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
I think that mindset is more of a product of this clusterfuck of a war that you guys (Americans) started in Iraq. You would certainly be hard-pressed to find anyone who would say that WW2 was not necessary. I do think that a more direct sacrifice other than tax dollars should be put on the line when you support a war though.
Here's a simpler question..
Would you die for your country?
I see the confusion here, and like most arguements, people are looking at the same thing very differently.
I agree, but who the fuck are you to judge somebody else's decision. They are the ones that have to live with it, not you.
A vicious, ruthless dictator was taken out of power. At the time the war was decided upon, and given the information available, I supported that move. Now that we are there, and its all gone awry, I don't support cut and run, anymore than I'd support going in there now, knowing what we now now.
But if one needs a silver lining, a vicious dictator was taken out of power.
But I digress.
I defer to my above quote.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
in turn, who the fuck are you to judge his feelings on it? He has as much a right to consider abortion cowardly, as she does to have one. Again, whats good for the goose, is good for the gander.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
if mine is as made up as yours and others, then you have no intention of seeing the other viewpoint, too, right?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Well...who the fuck are you to judge someones decision to support a war but not actively partcipate in it? They are the ones who have to live with it, not you.
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL