I have to disagree with america having a hard time absorbing over a million immigrants per year. America welcomes them with open arms by having just as many menial labor jobs for them to fill.
This is why Bush and so many other politicians refuse to do anything about it. They know that the US economy, rather than suffering from illegal immigration, is actually dependant on it.
If the US economy were suddenly stripped of illegal labor, it would implode and leave many prominent business owners out on the street. Any economist will admit to this.
So, what happens is we begin to have entire communities made up of people who are essentially living on slave wages. And when you have entire communities living in such poverty, you are going to have crime. That is unavoidable.
But, these people will never be able to escape because their wages are being kept low as these workers have no rights. They can't unionize. They can't file for benefits. They have nothing except the few dollars per hour that their employers pay them.
Meanwhile, people focus on the immigrants themselves, and not the self-perpetuating cycle of poverty and crime that is a direct result of what is essentially slavery. This is scapegoating. Illegal immigrants and the problems surrounding their situation are being used as a scapegoat for this country's real problems such as worker exploitation and the widening gaps between social classes.
The real criminals are employers of illegal immigrants and the politicians who are in their back pockets.
if there were a mass opening of job oppertunities; the minimum wage paid (not the legislative minimum) would rise due to supply/demand. we'd stop the money going to mexico keeping it in the us; this would boost the american economy.
That is, it's cheaper for America to build prison than it is to pay decent wages.
Only if the new prison compounds are built with illegal alien labor.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I wouldn't go to their country for jobs and money if the roles were reversed, and here's why:
I prefer Americans to other cultures. I believe that America is my home. My home is more important to me than how much money I can earn from it. My home is more important to me than how many jobs it can offer my family. The reason this is my home is because I have built long-term bonds with its people, land, and culture.
If there were no jobs for you to work at, or ones that only paid you cents per hour, how would you support for family (if you had one)? Either your kids starve, or you get on a bus and go work on a farm in another country for what you consider A LOT of money.... can you honestly say that you would stay home and let your family suffer?
A lot of illegals come up for the farming seasons to make enough money to feed their families at home. The same things that you just said are important to them: their land, their home, their people, their culture, etc.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm back. Here is some more information and references.
Of the 265,100 state prison inmates serving time for drug offenses in 2002, 126,000 (47.53%) were black, 61,700 (23.27%) were Hispanic, and 64,500 (24.33%) were white. It seems that there is more whites committing drug offenses than Hispanics.
Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2004 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Oct. 2005), Table 12, p. 9.
Seems that your article has inaccurate statistics, not suprising. Also the statistic that states that Hispanics are 3.3 times more likely to be in prison than whites is false. The number is closer to 2.5 whioch is still high but the information the article you refer to is false.
I couldn't find any information comparing homocide rates between Hispanics and white, but I did find this information.
45.9% of all homocides are carried out by whites. 52.1% are carried out by African-Americans and 2% is carried out by other. If the Hispanic rate was 4.2 times more likely to be in prison for murder I believe that other percentage would be higher than 2%. Here are some stats for gang related homocides. White - 54.4%, Black - 41.3%, and Other - 4.3%. Again not stats that are definetive but if Hispanics where 19 timesw more likely than whites to be in gangs than than percentage of others would be higher. I'm still researching to see if I can find more info.
I don't blame illegal immigrants at all for trying to come here. It's a tribute to how great our country is. They're willing to cross deserts, lakes, evade border patrol, etc, all just to come here and work. That's how great the opportunity is here compared to there. It's great to be here.
It's easy to blame illegal immigrants and say things like "they don't respect our laws" when you're not the one unable to provide b/c there is no opportunity to do so in the country you live in.
Since coming here is so attractive & understandable, we have to protect our borders and I absolutely agree that we need step up border patrol, build that fence, more camera, penalize employers (huge point there that probably won't ever happen on a large scale due to internal corruption) and on and on. No, we won't completely stop illegal immigration, but we can greatly reduce it.
the gap in college graduation rates is even closer between whites and hispanics. 57% of white college students obtain their degree within six years. 44% of hispanics accomplish the same. Take the 2003 statistics on SAT scores. The average SAT score for whites was 1053 while the average for Hispanics was 929. Just slightlky over a 100 point difference. Not much at all. So hispanics are not the uneducated crime ridden community you and like minded people would make us to be.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Hispanic Business Growth Outpaces National Average
Hispanic-owned businesses grew 31 percent between 1997 and 2002—three times the national average for all businesses—the US Census Bureau reported this week. The nearly 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generated nearly $222 billion in revenue, up 19 percent from 1997.
States with the fastest growth rates for Hispanic-owned firms between 1997 and 2002 included New York (57 percent), Rhode Island and Georgia (56 percent each), and Nevada and South Carolina (48 percent each).
"With Hispanic businesses among the fastest growing segments of our economy, this is a good indicator of how competitiveness is driving the American economy," Census Bureau Director Louis Kincannon said.
Every school child should know that the oldest, continuously inhabited city in the United States is St. Augustine, Florida (founded in 1565), and that Hispanic culture had a firm root in the Southeast and Southwest of what became the United States before the English arrived at Jamestown and before the Pilgrims dropped anchor in Massachusetts Bay. If, indeed, a school child is taught these facts, he or she is unlikely to be taught much more about the Hispanic contribution to American civilization, however; it's just not a part of today's classrooms and textbooks.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I found some information concerning AIDs. I found some information on California, still looking for national stats, but Hispanics and white had the same rate of AIDs related deaths in that state in 2002.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Here is some more information on AIDs. In 2003 there where 4.2 aids related deaths for white males per 100,000 white males and .9 deaths white female deaths per 100,000 white females. Hispanics males had a 5.2 ratio and hispanic females a 2.7. Again higher than whites but no where near the three times your articles refers to. Once again that article has published inaccurate or incomplete data in order to further there xenophobic agenda.
Some info on TB cases. While hispanics may have a heigher rate of TB cases within their communities they have experienced a 50% reduction in per ratio cases on TB within the the time period spanning 1993-2003. Again your artyicle will only publish half the information.
I also find something very interesting. The article you posted and the points you high lighted isn't even about showing the difference in healthcare, education, crime, and socio-economic status between immigrants and natives. You broke it down between whites and hispanics. I believe this is because adding in other native groups such as African Americans and American Indians whould have produced extremely different results and actuhally show that immigranst are doing just as well as natives if not better.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I disagree with your word "inheriting". That word suggests to me that in your view that this is a Hispanic problem, and not an American one. I see it as the latter.
Last I read, America is allowing immigrants in at a rate (legally) of 900,000 per year. That's a good-sized city, and doesn't account for those getting here illegally. Every year! There is also an allotment of around 50,000 immigrants allowed under special circumstances such as political asylum.
These numbers seem absurd to me, and need to be lowered radically, IMO.
When you are talking about the total immigrants coming in to the country every year (900,000) that doesn't just include hispanics. Thats people from all over the world.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong about this not being a Hispanic problem. This immigration problem is due to Mexico and the fact that it is a terrible place for most people to live. I don't blame these people for leaving Mexico for a better life, if I was in their shoes I would do the same thing. The Mexican government needs to change before any real progress can be made on the immigration issue.
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
Some info on TB cases. While hispanics may have a heigher rate of TB cases within their communities they have experienced a 50% reduction in per ratio cases on TB within the the time period spanning 1993-2003. Again your artyicle will only publish half the information.
I also find something very interesting. The article you posted and the points you high lighted isn't even about showing the difference in healthcare, education, crime, and socio-economic status between immigrants and natives. You broke it down between whites and hispanics. I believe this is because adding in other native groups such as African Americans and American Indians whould have produced extremely different results and actuhally show that immigranst are doing just as well as natives if not better.
an article is only as valid as the author. you mention census; but illegals don't participate in the census. if you want to believe government information you must consider the source. i also question; what other diseases are these people bringing in? when the white eye came to america the american indian was plagued with diseases the white man had immunity to. interesting point brought up.
I just saw this little tidbit of info and it made my heart jump with glee. BarroomWhore so much for your whites are better than hispanics attitude.
However, once we control for first generation effects of immigration, the aggregate Census data shows that Cubans do much better than any other "Hispanic" group and in fact are more educated than native born Anglos. In the native born category, 56.9 percent of Cuban-Americans as opposed to 54.6 percent of Anglos were high school graduates or held GED's, while an additional 26.1 percent of Cuban-Americans as opposed to 20.6 percent Anglos were educated beyond the high school level. (Issarcharoff, 1994: 23)
It's good to be a Cuban-American.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
an article is only as valid as the author. you mention census; but illegals don't participate in the census. if you want to believe government information you must consider the source. i also question; what other diseases are these people bringing in? when the white eye came to america the american indian was plagued with diseases the white man had immunity to. interesting point brought up.
I agree with you but if you look at the stats African Americans have the highest cases per 100,000 in both Aids and Aids related death plus in TB cases. CorporateWhore didn't incorporate any of this info into his anti-immigrant postings. Last time I check the majority of African Americans in this country are native born. If he wants to discuiss the burdon placed on the US by illegal immigration that's fine, I may even agree with him on many points. The problem I see is that he is just singling out hispanics and just illegal hispanic immigrants but hispanics as a whole and I'm not going to sit silently and have someone drag my ethnicity through the mud.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
To me, this is the essential gist of what you are saying. The illegals come here for jobs and money. That's it. I agree with you.
I wouldn't go to their country for jobs and money if the roles were reversed, and here's why:
I prefer Americans to other cultures. I believe that America is my home. My home is more important to me than how much money I can earn from it. My home is more important to me than how many jobs it can offer my family. The reason this is my home is because I have built long-term bonds with its people, land, and culture.
The reason that they are coming here is, like you said, jobs and money. But, is that a legitimate reason to allow someone into your country? Should the desire to become an American have nothing to do with living in America? I believe immigrants should desire to become Americans and to contribute to this nation. They should want to develop long-term bonds with the people, land, and culture of this country.
Should America stop expecting that its immigrants assimilate into our way of life? I don't think so. I don't think jobs and money are good enough reasons to become an American.
You are right: the only reason I am a patriotic American is that I was born in America. But, that's an assinine statement to begin with. I am merely a product of my environment, as are all human beings. I could say the same thing for you: the only reason you are Cosmo is because you were born in an environment that was likely to produce Cosmo. Sure, you could've been something else, but you are best when you are Cosmo.
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Everything you have stated is probably what many of the immigrants whgo make the trek over here seeking money... they are patriotic to Mexico. america is seen as merely a means to make an end.
I think the falisy that we Americans make is that we think they WANT to become Americans. Is that true? Americans that go to work in the Middle East to make 170,000 tax exempt dollars for driving a truck do not want to become Iraqi, do they? Do they want to learn the Arabic language? No. They are there for the money.
The same principle is in play here in America. People come here illeaglly to work... not necessarily to become an American Citizen. They want to make a better life for thier families... in Mexico. They are no less patriotic about their nationality and culture as we are about ours. We are not the only patriotic nation out there.
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Again... get rid of the source and go after criminal Americans who attract them here... and the problem goes away. But, understand... solving one problem does not meand you create a dozen more.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Everything you have stated is probably what many of the immigrants whgo make the trek over here seeking money... they are patriotic to Mexico. america is seen as merely a means to make an end.
I think the falisy that we Americans make is that we think they WANT to become Americans. Is that true? Americans that go to work in the Middle East to make 170,000 tax exempt dollars for driving a truck do not want to become Iraqi, do they? Do they want to learn the Arabic language? No. They are there for the money.
The same principle is in play here in America. People come here illeaglly to work... not necessarily to become an American Citizen. They want to make a better life for thier families... in Mexico. They are no less patriotic about their nationality and culture as we are about ours. We are not the only patriotic nation out there.
...
Again... get rid of the source and go after criminal Americans who attract them here... and the problem goes away. But, understand... solving one problem does not meand you create a dozen more.
I agree with you on the fact that most illegals don't want to be Americans. My wife teaches high school spanish in a very urban school district where about 50% of her students are illegals. They will tell you that they are only here because they can make more money (most of them work full time!) and that they love Mexico. They also tell her that they don't consider themselves Americans, so you're right about that.
What you're wrong about is the statement you made on "going after the criminal Americans who attract them here." This will not solve the problem because they will risk coming over here whether or not they have a secured job lined up. The conditions in Mexico are so bad that it is worth the risk of coming over and trying to find a job. That will not change. I do agree that we need to be tougher on these people that are hiring and exploiting these people but it won't stop the flow of illegals over the boarder. The only way you stop it is to make Mexico a better place to live. This starts with change in their government, and until that happens there will be no change.
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
I agree with you on the fact that most illegals don't want to be Americans. My wife teaches high school spanish in a very urban school district where about 50% of her students are illegals. They will tell you that they are only here because they can make more money (most of them work full time!) and that they love Mexico. They also tell her that they don't consider themselves Americans, so you're right about that.
What you're wrong about is the statement you made on "going after the criminal Americans who attract them here." This will not solve the problem because they will risk coming over here whether or not they have a secured job lined up. The conditions in Mexico are so bad that it is worth the risk of coming over and trying to find a job. That will not change. I do agree that we need to be tougher on these people that are hiring and exploiting these people but it won't stop the flow of illegals over the boarder. The only way you stop it is to make Mexico a better place to live. This starts with change in their government, and until that happens there will be no change.
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I agree... fix Mexico.
You are not going to stop illegal imigration, but you can cut the numbers down by getting tough on the employers. Seize their assets to pay of the debt incurred by the illegals that everyone in complaining about. Take away the business owner's business, homes, cars, possessions and toss him in prison with the murderers and rapists if it is such a huge problem (which I don't believe it is).
But, realize that without the cheap, illegal labor... hiring Americans who will have to be covered by Health and Safety insurance and paid the minimum wage and adhere to standard work days and the costs go up. We will have to be willing to pay a hell of a lot more for the homes built by illegal laborers... a 50 dollar car wash and a 15 dollar Grand Slam breakfast at Denny's.
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Personally... I don't think that illegal immigration is that big of an issue. I believe most are here to do what it takes to care for their families back in Mexico. I think we need to control our borders... but, let's take a humanitarian approach. Work with Mexico and set up a system to allow Mexican citizens to work here as Mexican citizens, not as American citizens. Bill Mexico for the costs when their citizens use our county services or commit crimes in America. If the Mexican system is corrupt... which it is... then we'll take over it. Set up 'Ellis Island' like processing centers that will hook up workers with employers. There has to be solutions, if we are willing to work for them.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm back. Here is some more information and references.
Of the 265,100 state prison inmates serving time for drug offenses in 2002, 126,000 (47.53%) were black, 61,700 (23.27%) were Hispanic, and 64,500 (24.33%) were white. It seems that there is more whites committing drug offenses than Hispanics.
Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2004 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Oct. 2005), Table 12, p. 9.
The problem with all of the stats you mentioned is that they are not ratios of each racial group. They are ratios of population. So, yes, whites are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population. But, Mexicans are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population too. What you really need to look at is whether hispanics are more likely to commit a drug offense in comparison to Whites. The fact is, based on their smaller population, that yes they are 19 times more likely. This is a ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "hispanic population." Your statistic was the ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "total population," which just doesn't make any sense if you're trying to prove that hispanics have a lower rate of drug crimes than whites.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
The problem with all of the stats you mentioned is that they are not ratios of each racial group. They are ratios of population. So, yes, whites are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population. But, Mexicans are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population too. What you really need to look at is whether hispanics are more likely to commit a drug offense in comparison to Whites. The fact is, based on their smaller population, that yes they are 19 times more likely. This is a ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "hispanic population." Your statistic was the ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "total population," which just doesn't make any sense if you're trying to prove that hispanics have a lower rate of drug crimes than whites.
What about all the other stats where I do use ratios. No comment on those. I find a crime one with ratios.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
The problem with all of the stats you mentioned is that they are not ratios of each racial group. They are ratios of population. So, yes, whites are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population. But, Mexicans are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population too. What you really need to look at is whether hispanics are more likely to commit a drug offense in comparison to Whites. The fact is, based on their smaller population, that yes they are 19 times more likely. This is a ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "hispanic population." Your statistic was the ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "total population," which just doesn't make any sense if you're trying to prove that hispanics have a lower rate of drug crimes than whites.
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Have you ever heard of that quote by Disraeli... "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"? Data can be interpreted in different ways... depending upon the point you are trying to make.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
the gap in college graduation rates is even closer between whites and hispanics. 57% of white college students obtain their degree within six years. 44% of hispanics accomplish the same. Take the 2003 statistics on SAT scores. The average SAT score for whites was 1053 while the average for Hispanics was 929. Just slightlky over a 100 point difference. Not much at all. So hispanics are not the uneducated crime ridden community you and like minded people would make us to be.
Here is another website that confirms my "3 times more" figure:
"The Latino youth dropout rate was more than three times greater than the 2000 non-Hispanic "white alone" dropout rate of 6.9 percent."
"The study, released recently by the Public Policy Institute of California, found that only 13 percent of Hispanics and 15 percent of Blacks had earned a bachelor's degree. That compared with rates of 31 percent for Whites and 62 percent for Asian Americans, based on 2000 Census data."
This is in California; nonetheless, that is where the majority of hispanics live. I doubt the figures would be better anywhere else.
The problem is, you're looking at whether hispanics actually obtain their degrees once they've been accepted! That's disingenuous to me and everyone here, mamasan. To really understand how well hispanics are doing, we need to look at their rate of college "acceptance," not their rate of graduation after being accepted.
Don't look for figures that just happen to prove your point. Be honest with everyone.
Like I've said, I think more Cubans should come here. Your figures on Cubans are probably true, and through my own experience, I've found they are a more successful group because they actually want to be Americans; Fidel doesn't want them back home anyway. By all means, pat yourself on the back for being Cuban, I don't care...I'm just saying, most of the immigrants come from Mexico. Look at what the Mexicans have done while they've been in America. Why let any more of them in?
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
...
Have you ever heard of that quote by Disraeli... "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"? Data can be interpreted in different ways... depending upon the point you are trying to make.
Sure it can, but when data tends toward a certain point, you need to acknowledge it. It's wrong if you don't.
But yes, I know many Disraeli quotes...
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Don't look for figures that just happen to prove your point. Be honest with everyone.
Wait a minute you are questioning my honesty when your primary source was a publication started by a white supremacist. I am providing links to unbaised sources not an organization whose goal is to purify this country.
Here is a stroy I found I'm still looking for nutral sources, something you seem to be lacking.
"The study, released recently by the Public Policy Institute of California, found that only 13 percent of Hispanics and 15 percent of Blacks had earned a bachelor's degree. That compared with rates of 31 percent for Whites and 62 percent for Asian Americans, based on 2000 Census data."
"The study, released recently by the Public Policy Institute of California, found that only 13 percent of Hispanics and 15 percent of Blacks had earned a bachelor's degree. That compared with rates of 31 percent for Whites and 62 percent for Asian Americans, based on 2000 Census data."
This is in California; nonetheless, that is where the majority of hispanics live. I doubt the figures would be better anywhere else.
The problem is, you're looking at whether hispanics actually obtain their degrees once they've been accepted! That's disingenuous to me and everyone here, mamasan. To really understand how well hispanics are doing, we need to look at their rate of college "acceptance," not their rate of graduation after being accepted.
Don't look for figures that just happen to prove your point. Be honest with everyone.
Like I've said, I think more Cubans should come here. Your figures on Cubans are probably true, and through my own experience, I've found they are a more successful group because they actually want to be Americans; Fidel doesn't want them back home anyway. By all means, pat yourself on the back for being Cuban, I don't care...I'm just saying, most of the immigrants come from Mexico. Look at what the Mexicans have done while they've been in America. Why let any more of them in?
So what happens if we close the boarder down? Lets say we completely stop immigration from Mexico 100%. Those people will probably die in Mexico. This leads to the bigger issue and the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about and that is the fact that Mexico is fucked up! America should be putting pressure on Mexico to change things and get their economy going, provide jobs, govt assistance etc. I've said it before, the problem won't be solved or even begin to improve until Mexico gets their act together.
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
Comments
if there were a mass opening of job oppertunities; the minimum wage paid (not the legislative minimum) would rise due to supply/demand. we'd stop the money going to mexico keeping it in the us; this would boost the american economy.
Only if the new prison compounds are built with illegal alien labor.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
If there were no jobs for you to work at, or ones that only paid you cents per hour, how would you support for family (if you had one)? Either your kids starve, or you get on a bus and go work on a farm in another country for what you consider A LOT of money.... can you honestly say that you would stay home and let your family suffer?
A lot of illegals come up for the farming seasons to make enough money to feed their families at home. The same things that you just said are important to them: their land, their home, their people, their culture, etc.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Of the 265,100 state prison inmates serving time for drug offenses in 2002, 126,000 (47.53%) were black, 61,700 (23.27%) were Hispanic, and 64,500 (24.33%) were white. It seems that there is more whites committing drug offenses than Hispanics.
Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2004 (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Oct. 2005), Table 12, p. 9.
Seems that your article has inaccurate statistics, not suprising. Also the statistic that states that Hispanics are 3.3 times more likely to be in prison than whites is false. The number is closer to 2.5 whioch is still high but the information the article you refer to is false.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm
I couldn't find any information comparing homocide rates between Hispanics and white, but I did find this information.
45.9% of all homocides are carried out by whites. 52.1% are carried out by African-Americans and 2% is carried out by other. If the Hispanic rate was 4.2 times more likely to be in prison for murder I believe that other percentage would be higher than 2%. Here are some stats for gang related homocides. White - 54.4%, Black - 41.3%, and Other - 4.3%. Again not stats that are definetive but if Hispanics where 19 timesw more likely than whites to be in gangs than than percentage of others would be higher. I'm still researching to see if I can find more info.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
It's easy to blame illegal immigrants and say things like "they don't respect our laws" when you're not the one unable to provide b/c there is no opportunity to do so in the country you live in.
Since coming here is so attractive & understandable, we have to protect our borders and I absolutely agree that we need step up border patrol, build that fence, more camera, penalize employers (huge point there that probably won't ever happen on a large scale due to internal corruption) and on and on. No, we won't completely stop illegal immigration, but we can greatly reduce it.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ewp_08.htm
the gap in college graduation rates is even closer between whites and hispanics. 57% of white college students obtain their degree within six years. 44% of hispanics accomplish the same. Take the 2003 statistics on SAT scores. The average SAT score for whites was 1053 while the average for Hispanics was 929. Just slightlky over a 100 point difference. Not much at all. So hispanics are not the uneducated crime ridden community you and like minded people would make us to be.
naděje umírá poslední
Hispanic Business Growth Outpaces National Average
Hispanic-owned businesses grew 31 percent between 1997 and 2002—three times the national average for all businesses—the US Census Bureau reported this week. The nearly 1.6 million Hispanic-owned businesses generated nearly $222 billion in revenue, up 19 percent from 1997.
States with the fastest growth rates for Hispanic-owned firms between 1997 and 2002 included New York (57 percent), Rhode Island and Georgia (56 percent each), and Nevada and South Carolina (48 percent each).
"With Hispanic businesses among the fastest growing segments of our economy, this is a good indicator of how competitiveness is driving the American economy," Census Bureau Director Louis Kincannon said.
http://www.tnbankers.org/news/06hispanicbusinessgrowth.htm
How is that for contributing to this country.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus05.pdf#042
http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/tb/surv/surv2003/PDF/Table2.pdf
I also find something very interesting. The article you posted and the points you high lighted isn't even about showing the difference in healthcare, education, crime, and socio-economic status between immigrants and natives. You broke it down between whites and hispanics. I believe this is because adding in other native groups such as African Americans and American Indians whould have produced extremely different results and actuhally show that immigranst are doing just as well as natives if not better.
naděje umírá poslední
When you are talking about the total immigrants coming in to the country every year (900,000) that doesn't just include hispanics. Thats people from all over the world.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong about this not being a Hispanic problem. This immigration problem is due to Mexico and the fact that it is a terrible place for most people to live. I don't blame these people for leaving Mexico for a better life, if I was in their shoes I would do the same thing. The Mexican government needs to change before any real progress can be made on the immigration issue.
an article is only as valid as the author. you mention census; but illegals don't participate in the census. if you want to believe government information you must consider the source. i also question; what other diseases are these people bringing in? when the white eye came to america the american indian was plagued with diseases the white man had immunity to. interesting point brought up.
However, once we control for first generation effects of immigration, the aggregate Census data shows that Cubans do much better than any other "Hispanic" group and in fact are more educated than native born Anglos. In the native born category, 56.9 percent of Cuban-Americans as opposed to 54.6 percent of Anglos were high school graduates or held GED's, while an additional 26.1 percent of Cuban-Americans as opposed to 20.6 percent Anglos were educated beyond the high school level. (Issarcharoff, 1994: 23)
It's good to be a Cuban-American.
I agree with you but if you look at the stats African Americans have the highest cases per 100,000 in both Aids and Aids related death plus in TB cases. CorporateWhore didn't incorporate any of this info into his anti-immigrant postings. Last time I check the majority of African Americans in this country are native born. If he wants to discuiss the burdon placed on the US by illegal immigration that's fine, I may even agree with him on many points. The problem I see is that he is just singling out hispanics and just illegal hispanic immigrants but hispanics as a whole and I'm not going to sit silently and have someone drag my ethnicity through the mud.
Everything you have stated is probably what many of the immigrants whgo make the trek over here seeking money... they are patriotic to Mexico. america is seen as merely a means to make an end.
I think the falisy that we Americans make is that we think they WANT to become Americans. Is that true? Americans that go to work in the Middle East to make 170,000 tax exempt dollars for driving a truck do not want to become Iraqi, do they? Do they want to learn the Arabic language? No. They are there for the money.
The same principle is in play here in America. People come here illeaglly to work... not necessarily to become an American Citizen. They want to make a better life for thier families... in Mexico. They are no less patriotic about their nationality and culture as we are about ours. We are not the only patriotic nation out there.
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Again... get rid of the source and go after criminal Americans who attract them here... and the problem goes away. But, understand... solving one problem does not meand you create a dozen more.
Hail, Hail!!!
I agree with you on the fact that most illegals don't want to be Americans. My wife teaches high school spanish in a very urban school district where about 50% of her students are illegals. They will tell you that they are only here because they can make more money (most of them work full time!) and that they love Mexico. They also tell her that they don't consider themselves Americans, so you're right about that.
What you're wrong about is the statement you made on "going after the criminal Americans who attract them here." This will not solve the problem because they will risk coming over here whether or not they have a secured job lined up. The conditions in Mexico are so bad that it is worth the risk of coming over and trying to find a job. That will not change. I do agree that we need to be tougher on these people that are hiring and exploiting these people but it won't stop the flow of illegals over the boarder. The only way you stop it is to make Mexico a better place to live. This starts with change in their government, and until that happens there will be no change.
I agree... fix Mexico.
You are not going to stop illegal imigration, but you can cut the numbers down by getting tough on the employers. Seize their assets to pay of the debt incurred by the illegals that everyone in complaining about. Take away the business owner's business, homes, cars, possessions and toss him in prison with the murderers and rapists if it is such a huge problem (which I don't believe it is).
But, realize that without the cheap, illegal labor... hiring Americans who will have to be covered by Health and Safety insurance and paid the minimum wage and adhere to standard work days and the costs go up. We will have to be willing to pay a hell of a lot more for the homes built by illegal laborers... a 50 dollar car wash and a 15 dollar Grand Slam breakfast at Denny's.
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Personally... I don't think that illegal immigration is that big of an issue. I believe most are here to do what it takes to care for their families back in Mexico. I think we need to control our borders... but, let's take a humanitarian approach. Work with Mexico and set up a system to allow Mexican citizens to work here as Mexican citizens, not as American citizens. Bill Mexico for the costs when their citizens use our county services or commit crimes in America. If the Mexican system is corrupt... which it is... then we'll take over it. Set up 'Ellis Island' like processing centers that will hook up workers with employers. There has to be solutions, if we are willing to work for them.
Hail, Hail!!!
The problem with all of the stats you mentioned is that they are not ratios of each racial group. They are ratios of population. So, yes, whites are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population. But, Mexicans are more likely to commit a drug offense when they make up a majority of the population too. What you really need to look at is whether hispanics are more likely to commit a drug offense in comparison to Whites. The fact is, based on their smaller population, that yes they are 19 times more likely. This is a ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "hispanic population." Your statistic was the ratio of "hispanic drug convicts" divided by the "total population," which just doesn't make any sense if you're trying to prove that hispanics have a lower rate of drug crimes than whites.
-Enoch Powell
What about all the other stats where I do use ratios. No comment on those. I find a crime one with ratios.
Have you ever heard of that quote by Disraeli... "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"? Data can be interpreted in different ways... depending upon the point you are trying to make.
Hail, Hail!!!
Here is another website that confirms my "3 times more" figure:
"The Latino youth dropout rate was more than three times greater than the 2000 non-Hispanic "white alone" dropout rate of 6.9 percent."
I looked it up on Google:
http://www.ericdigests.org/2004-3/latino.html
As for college graduate rates:
"The study, released recently by the Public Policy Institute of California, found that only 13 percent of Hispanics and 15 percent of Blacks had earned a bachelor's degree. That compared with rates of 31 percent for Whites and 62 percent for Asian Americans, based on 2000 Census data."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_3_22/ai_n13619954
This is in California; nonetheless, that is where the majority of hispanics live. I doubt the figures would be better anywhere else.
The problem is, you're looking at whether hispanics actually obtain their degrees once they've been accepted! That's disingenuous to me and everyone here, mamasan. To really understand how well hispanics are doing, we need to look at their rate of college "acceptance," not their rate of graduation after being accepted.
Don't look for figures that just happen to prove your point. Be honest with everyone.
Like I've said, I think more Cubans should come here. Your figures on Cubans are probably true, and through my own experience, I've found they are a more successful group because they actually want to be Americans; Fidel doesn't want them back home anyway. By all means, pat yourself on the back for being Cuban, I don't care...I'm just saying, most of the immigrants come from Mexico. Look at what the Mexicans have done while they've been in America. Why let any more of them in?
-Enoch Powell
Sure it can, but when data tends toward a certain point, you need to acknowledge it. It's wrong if you don't.
But yes, I know many Disraeli quotes...
-Enoch Powell
Wait a minute you are questioning my honesty when your primary source was a publication started by a white supremacist. I am providing links to unbaised sources not an organization whose goal is to purify this country.
Here is a stroy I found I'm still looking for nutral sources, something you seem to be lacking.
http://www.hispaniconline.com/magazine/2006/march/features/colleges.html
I'm Canadian. How do I go about illegally immigrating to the US, or even Mexico? I hate our winters and after 29 years, have had enough.
If it helps, my maternal grandmother was born and died an American citizen.
Sincerely,
Derrick
So because this is the case in California it mus be so across the country. Provide statistics to back that up.
So what happens if we close the boarder down? Lets say we completely stop immigration from Mexico 100%. Those people will probably die in Mexico. This leads to the bigger issue and the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about and that is the fact that Mexico is fucked up! America should be putting pressure on Mexico to change things and get their economy going, provide jobs, govt assistance etc. I've said it before, the problem won't be solved or even begin to improve until Mexico gets their act together.