A Rational Approach to Immigration

CorporateWhore

The following is an organization of facts done by American Renaissance using statistics from various scholarly studies. It notes the serious problems that we are inheriting from South and Central America. One of the most fundamental problems I noted was the failure of even second and third generation hispanics to graduate highschool at a higher rate than blacks in America. Hispanic illiteracy has only increased.

This does not mean that legal hispanics need to be kicked out of this country, though. It just means that they need to be assimilated. Still, when we consider accepting more south and central americans into this country, these are statistics that we should take into account. Note: only 33% of hispanic americans see themselves as "Americans." Sad.

http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/HispanicsReport.htm

Major Findings of Vdare.com on American hispanics

Income and Wealth
• Per capita income of Hispanics is one half that of non-Hispanic whites, and
household net worth is less than one tenth.
• Fifty percent of Hispanic households use some form of welfare, the highest rate of any major population group.

Crime
• Hispanics are 3.3 times more likely to be in prison than whites; they are 4.2
times more likely to be in prison for murder, and 5.8 times more likely to be in prison for felony drug crimes.
• Young Hispanics are 19 times more likely than young whites (and slightly more likely than young blacks) to be in youth gangs.

Education
• Hispanics drop out of high school at three times the white rate and twice the black rate.
• Even third-generation Hispanics drop out of school at a higher rate than blacks and are less likely to be college graduates.
• From 1992 to 2003, Hispanic illiteracy in English rose from 35 percent to 44
percent.
• The average Hispanic 12th-grader reads and does math at the level of the average white 8th-grader.

Families and Health
• At 43 percent, the Hispanic illegitimacy rate is twice the white rate, and Hispanic women have abortions at 2.7 times the white rate.
• Hispanics are three times more likely than whites not to have medical insurance, and die from AIDS and tuberculosis at three times the white rate.
• In California, the cost of free medical care for illegal aliens forced 60 hospitals to close between 1993 and 2003.

Attitudes
• Only 33 percent of citizens of Hispanic origin consider themselves “Americans” first. The rest consider themselves either “Hispanic/Latino” or their former nationality first.

Rushlimbo

I love America and I love Mexico. I'll shall build a stilthouse with two legs in each nation so I can be happy. Tacate and natural Light at the same time....ummmm.

CorporateWhore

Rushlimbo wrote:

I love America and I love Mexico. I'll shall build a stilthouse with two legs in each nation so I can be happy. Tacate and natural Light at the same time....ummmm.

Hah, not when we build a wall and tear your house down.

Rushlimbo

CorporateWhore wrote:

Hah, not when we build a wall and tear your house down.

I will have levitation abilities installed. Or declare myself a nation and defend to the death.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

The following is an organization of facts done by American Renaissance using statistics from various scholarly studies. It notes the serious problems that we are inheriting from South and Central America. One of the most fundamental problems I noted was the failure of even second and third generation hispanics to graduate highschool at a higher rate than blacks in America. Hispanic illiteracy has only increased.

I disagree with your word "inheriting". That word suggests to me that in your view that this is a Hispanic problem, and not an American one. I see it as the latter.
Last I read, America is allowing immigrants in at a rate (legally) of 900,000 per year. That's a good-sized city, and doesn't account for those getting here illegally. Every year! There is also an allotment of around 50,000 immigrants allowed under special circumstances such as political asylum.
These numbers seem absurd to me, and need to be lowered radically, IMO.

CorporateWhore

gue_barium wrote:

I disagree with your word "inheriting". That word suggests to me that in your view that this is a Hispanic problem, and not an American one. I see it as the latter.
Last I read, America is allowing immigrants in at a rate (legally) of 900,000 per year. That's a good-sized city, and doesn't account for those getting here illegally. Every year! There is also an allotment of around 50,000 immigrants allowed under special circumstances such as political asylum.
These numbers seem absurd to me, and need to be lowered radically, IMO.

They're facts.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

They're facts.

You're missing the point. It's true that America has a hard time absorbing over a million immigrants per year, hence the crime and factionalization.

fanch75

Rushlimbo wrote:

Tacate and natural Light at the same time....ummmm.

Dude, that is awesome.

sponger

I have to disagree with america having a hard time absorbing over a million immigrants per year. America welcomes them with open arms by having just as many menial labor jobs for them to fill.

This is why Bush and so many other politicians refuse to do anything about it. They know that the US economy, rather than suffering from illegal immigration, is actually dependant on it.

If the US economy were suddenly stripped of illegal labor, it would implode and leave many prominent business owners out on the street. Any economist will admit to this.

So, what happens is we begin to have entire communities made up of people who are essentially living on slave wages. And when you have entire communities living in such poverty, you are going to have crime. That is unavoidable.

But, these people will never be able to escape because their wages are being kept low as these workers have no rights. They can't unionize. They can't file for benefits. They have nothing except the few dollars per hour that their employers pay them.

Meanwhile, people focus on the immigrants themselves, and not the self-perpetuating cycle of poverty and crime that is a direct result of what is essentially slavery. This is scapegoating. Illegal immigrants and the problems surrounding their situation are being used as a scapegoat for this country's real problems such as worker exploitation and the widening gaps between social classes.

The real criminals are employers of illegal immigrants and the politicians who are in their back pockets.

Cosmo

If I'm a poor, uneducated Mexican who cannot get his foot in the door of the corrupt Mexican immigration office... I'm hopping that fence. And I'm guessing most americans (if placed in their shoes) would do the same thing.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

I have to disagree with america having a hard time absorbing over a million immigrants per year. America welcomes them with open arms by having just as many menial labor jobs for them to fill.

This is why Bush and so many other politicians refuse to do anything about it. They know that the US economy, rather than suffering from illegal immigration, is actually dependant on it.

If the US economy were suddenly stripped of illegal labor, it would implode and leave many prominent business owners out on the street. Any economist will admit to this.

So, what happens is we begin to have entire communities made up of people who are essentially living on slave wages. And when you have entire communities living in such poverty, you are going to have crime. That is unavoidable.

But, these people will never be able to escape because their wages are being kept low as these workers have no rights. They can't unionize. They can't file for benefits. They have nothing except the few dollars per hour that their employers pay them.

Meanwhile, people focus on the immigrants themselves, and not the self-perpetuating cycle of poverty and crime that is a direct result of what is essentially slavery. This is scapegoating. Illegal immigrants and the problems surrounding their situation are being used as a scapegoat for this country's real problems such as worker exploitation and the widening gaps between social classes.

The real criminals are employers of illegal immigrants and the politicians who are in their back pockets.

I cited the 900,000 legal immigrants, primarily.

sponger

gue_barium wrote:

I cited the 900,000 legal immigrants, primarily.

Those statistics, however, are most likely based on the results of illegal immigration.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

Those statistics, however, are most likely based on the results of illegal immigration.

No, it is the legal number the USA allows itself, on paper. That's the legal cut-off point.

CorporateWhore

Cosmo wrote:

If I'm a poor, uneducated Mexican who cannot get his foot in the door of the corrupt Mexican immigration office... I'm hopping that fence. And I'm guessing most americans (if placed in their shoes) would do the same thing.

Any patriotic American would try to make their own country better instead of moving to another country. I guess you're probably right though.

The ethical propositions being put out by some of you are wholely without merit:

If a drug dealer calls you over and asks you if you want drugs, and you say yes, which of you committed the illegal act?

Both!

If an employer offers a job to an illegal alien, and they accept, which of them committed the illegal act?

Both!

The illegal aliens are just as guilty as the employers. They know that it's illegal to enter this country and they do it anyway. It doesn't matter their motive. Does the motive matter when someone tries to obtain illegal drugs? If their mother died and they lost their job, is it less illegal for them to obtain illegal drugs? Can that be argued in court? No.

We need to recognize the actions of illegal aliens as illegal. Otherwise you're holding them to a double standard in comparison to employers.

sponger

CorporateWhore wrote:

We need to recognize the actions of illegal aliens as illegal. Otherwise you're holding them to a double standard in comparison to employers.

You don't want to get rid of illegal aliens. You just want to punish them. lol. Recognizing the illegality of their actions won't change anything. But, you're not interested in change. You're interested in being an authoritarian.

sponger

gue_barium wrote:

No, it is the legal number the USA allows itself, on paper. That's the legal cut-off point.

I see. Thank you. Regardless, my point was that we do not have a hard time absorbing them. Those statistics at the beginning of this thread are not based on legal immigration. They're based on both. But, considering that most jailed people in the state of California are illegal immigrants, one would have to assume that most of those statistics are a result of illegal immigration. In which case, it is not a matter of absorption. Instead, it's a matter of acknowledging the rights to equal status as employees in the US.

gue_barium

sponger wrote:

I see. Thank you. Regardless, my point was that we do not have a hard time absorbing them. Those statistics at the beginning of this thread are not based on legal immigration. They're based on both. But, considering that most jailed people in the state of California are illegal immigrants, one would have to assume that most of those statistics are a result of illegal immigration. In which case, it is not a matter of absorption. Instead, it's a matter of acknowledging the rights to equal status as employees in the US.

I guess the American prison builders are good American Absorbers.

sponger

gue_barium wrote:

I guess the American prison builders are good American Absorbers.

Apparently so. Gov. Schwarzenegger yesterday announced a multi-billion dollar prison expansion plan. The state of california would rather build more prisons than hurt its economy by eliminating slave labor.

That is, it's cheaper for America to build prison than it is to pay decent wages.

So, yes, american prison builders are good absorbers.

CorporateWhore

sponger wrote:

You don't want to get rid of illegal aliens. You just want to punish them. lol. Recognizing the illegality of their actions won't change anything. But, you're not interested in change. You're interested in being an authoritarian.

No, I want them to go back to their country by taking away their jobs by fining and jailing CEOs.

I do support authoritarianism in some respects.

sponger

CorporateWhore wrote:

No, I want them to go back to their country by taking away their jobs by fining and jailing CEOs.

I do support authoritarianism in some respects.

If you take away their jobs, they will go back to their country on their own whether or not it's illegal.

CorporateWhore

sponger wrote:

If you take away their jobs, they will go back to their country on their own whether or not it's illegal.

Correct. The wall will keep them out.