I would think that ending a being's life is not the same as a person being circumcised. I suppose I just wish people could make smarter choices. Do I think the government has the right to tell a woman she cannot get an abortion? No; because it would be hypocritical considering the lives they have destroyed.
I don't support abortion, I see it as murder and I believe once the baby is conceived, it is a human being. Now, I understand that a lot of people don't agree with that, and they are entitled to their belief, so please abstain from arguing with me over the matter.
I think I have a problem with you calling some women on this board murderers. Maybe you should find another place to play.
good point, direct from the article in the first post:
"Pro-life" and "pro-choice" are imprecise, even tendentious, terms. Not everyone describing himself as "pro-life" wants to outlaw all abortions, and not everyone describing himself as "pro-choice" opposes all regulation on abortion. It's even conceivable that one could be both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" (if one believes abortion is immoral but shouldn't be illegal).
and i would say, quite true. i and others have mentioned much the same and if nothing else, i think more and more people are truly wanting to preserve personal freedoms and choice, in ALL areas. what one chooses for one's self, and what one believes should be a right for others to choose for themselves as well....that's what it's ALL about imho.
humans have 'intervened' in the creation...and destruction...of life, always. birth control being a BIG 'intervention' and a very positive one, although there are still many who are anti-BC......but i guess that's follows suit with simply being anti-choice entirely. either abstain always or take what you get and like it? dunno. for the more 'reasonable' folks out there...for lack of a better term......choice should be supported, whether one would choose for thesmelves such choices or not.
basically i just think, who am i to tell another woman, or a couple, what they can or can't do for themselves? 'intervention' in life creation also involves, as mentioned, birth control...but also hormone therapy......IVF......etc. just as much exists for wanting a baby as not wanting one.......and yes, i firmly believe there are oooooh so many reasons beyond the simplistic 'want to play and not pay' issue at hand. but hey, that's me. i respect everyone's right to make such decisions, form opinions, for themselves.....i am just oh-sooooo-glad that at least for now, the right to CHOOSE still exists....and hell yea, i will ALWAYS support such rights for EVERYone down the road.
but yea, i haven't procreated so i guess my influence is nil, eh?
Pro-choice is all about keeping the government's nose out of women's personal healthcare decisions. How would you like it if the government mandated that all men get circumcised?
I can't help but notice the irony of this statement and all the threads we've had lately advocating that the government take over the healthcare system.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I can't help but notice the irony of this statement and all the threads we've had lately advocating that the government take over the healthcare system.
There's a big difference between wanting the government to guarantee affordable access to health care, and wanting the government to decide which treatments we get. Nobody wants their private insurers making those types of decisions, and they wouldn't want their government insurer making them either.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
There's a big difference between wanting the government to guarantee affordable access to health care, and wanting the government to decide which treatments we get. Nobody wants their private insurers making those types of decisions, and they wouldn't want their government insurer making them either.
I don't think the difference is that great.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Ugh there's that term free-will and that other one God
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well, I have a problem with people killing babies, so we're even.
If you scratch your nose, you've commited a holocaust in my mind. I take offense to people scratching their noses. Have you any idea how many millions of living cells are murdered by your selfish desire to rid yourself of an itch?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I can't help but notice the irony of this statement and all the threads we've had lately advocating that the government take over the healthcare system.
There's no irony there. I was making the point that each individual should have the right to make decisions regarding their own bodily integrity. From whether they take antibiotics, to whether they receive blood transfusions to whether to they choose to get pregnant to whether to they have an abortion. Governments have no business mandating healthcare decisions for its citizens.
Also, not every abortion is done simply because the woman does not want the baby. There are legitimate medical reasons for abortion to protect the mother's health. Also there are fatal medical conditions such as anencephaly (a form of spina bifida) that can be detected in a fetus before birth. Some women may choose to end the pregnancy when they know the baby won't survive.
If you scratch your nose, you've commited a holocaust in my mind. I take offense to people scratching their noses. Have you any idea how many millions of living cells are murdered by your selfish desire to rid yourself of an itch?
Im sure I misunderstood.
Are you comparing the inception of a Human life inside the Womb with skin cells that flake off of our noses?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
Are you comparing the inception of a Human life inside the Womb with skin cells that flake off of our noses?
Well actually... the skin cells are mature cells and the intracellular mass of a blastocyst are only differential stem cells. But essentially all cellular life is the same.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
If you scratch your nose, you've commited a holocaust in my mind. I take offense to people scratching their noses. Have you any idea how many millions of living cells are murdered by your selfish desire to rid yourself of an itch?
Wow, you must really despise yourself then, because humans shed cells constantly.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
Well actually... the skin cells are mature cells and the intracellular mass of a blastocyst are only differential stem cells. But essentially all cellular life is the same.
Listen...Im not interested in an abortion debate.
Its self-righteous and wasted energy for me to try and change your mind.
Im more interested in the fact that a smart man such as yourself is able to seperate the fact that what something is in its state of origin and what it becomes later are somehow not related.
The cells in the womb go on to create Human life, the ones on our noses sluff (sp) off and dont have the ability to create a thing.
Its not logical to me, your line of reasoning...thats all.
Maybe you could explain it better.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
Wow, you must really despise yourself then, because humans shed cells constantly.
I was being sarcastic, genius.
As long as you and Zarathustra there are getting your facts from ancient theology, you aren't going to understand my position.
There is nothing inherently special about human life.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
^ you are entitled to feel that way. That's you and your belief, it's fine with me.
I don't care what you believe in...but you are intolerable of the things other people believe in and that is wrong.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
Listen...Im not interested in an abortion debate.
Its self-righteous and wasted energy for me to try and change your mind.
Im more interested in the fact that a smart man such as yourself is able to seperate the fact that what something is in its state of origin and what it becomes later are somehow not related.
The cells in the womb go on to create Human life, the ones on our noses sluff (sp) off and dont have the ability to create a thing.
Its not logical to me, your line of reasoning...thats all.
Maybe you could explain it better.
Those flaked off cells are important food for other species, are they not?
A log has the potential to become a door or a nice piece of furniture, does that stop you from stoking your fire?
How far do you want to take this potential stuff? That blastocyst also has the potential to become miscarried and a useless decaying mess. It has the potential of becoming stem cells used in therapy.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
^ you are entitled to feel that way. That's you and your belief, it's fine with me.
I don't care what you believe in...but you are intolerable of the things other people believe in and that is wrong.
I'm pro-choice, I'm not intolerable.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm alone, at first, in what they want to call a waiting room.
Well, at least I have a TV.
But it's so loud, and there's no remote and I can't turn it down.
All I really want is to think.
I want to think about this for the last time.
I want to be sure that it’s something I lack.
I want to want this thing that’s inside me.
I want to get up and leave and never come back.
Oh dear God, I want to get this over with.
Oh dear God, I want someone to talk with.
Another woman walks in, and sits beside me in this makeshift room.
Like me she is wearing nothing but sneakers and socks and a gown.
We don't speak at first.
We're too busy looking each other up and down.
And then she does this thing that makes me want to cry.
She says, "This your first time, honey? You don't look like you belong".
And of course she's so right.
But I wish somehow that I could tell her she's wrong.
This thing that has happened, it's so wrong.
To think it just happened one night.
So I tell her, and she's nodding her head.
She looks at me with sympathy.
She says, "41 and it's your first time.....my oh my, you poor thing."
Then she turns to the TV and says, "I can't hear it, is there a remote?"
She finds it and turns The Judge up louder, while my words get stuck in my throat.
I don't say anything.
I just think about this whole thing.
Then the nurse calls my name, and I'm gone.
Just like that, this thing is gone.
And here I am a year later, still trying to think that this thing was all wrong.
A year later, and I still hope that getting rid of this thing wasn't wrong.
A year later, and I know that I'll forever be singing this song.
Was I wrong? Was I wrong?
Comments
I think I have a problem with you calling some women on this board murderers. Maybe you should find another place to play.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I guess that's why they have the word CHOICE in there. you can CHOOSE not to have an abortion.
God gave us the right of free will. Funny how many of his followers want to shut it down.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It IS about choice and free will, only the time for that choice was BEFORE a woman is carrying a life other than her own inside of her body.
Some things should be beyond the relam of Human intervention, the creation of life being a major one.
Its simple to me, people want to play but not pay.*shrugs*
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
"Pro-life" and "pro-choice" are imprecise, even tendentious, terms. Not everyone describing himself as "pro-life" wants to outlaw all abortions, and not everyone describing himself as "pro-choice" opposes all regulation on abortion. It's even conceivable that one could be both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" (if one believes abortion is immoral but shouldn't be illegal).
and i would say, quite true. i and others have mentioned much the same and if nothing else, i think more and more people are truly wanting to preserve personal freedoms and choice, in ALL areas. what one chooses for one's self, and what one believes should be a right for others to choose for themselves as well....that's what it's ALL about imho.
humans have 'intervened' in the creation...and destruction...of life, always. birth control being a BIG 'intervention' and a very positive one, although there are still many who are anti-BC......but i guess that's follows suit with simply being anti-choice entirely. either abstain always or take what you get and like it? dunno. for the more 'reasonable' folks out there...for lack of a better term......choice should be supported, whether one would choose for thesmelves such choices or not.
basically i just think, who am i to tell another woman, or a couple, what they can or can't do for themselves? 'intervention' in life creation also involves, as mentioned, birth control...but also hormone therapy......IVF......etc. just as much exists for wanting a baby as not wanting one.......and yes, i firmly believe there are oooooh so many reasons beyond the simplistic 'want to play and not pay' issue at hand. but hey, that's me. i respect everyone's right to make such decisions, form opinions, for themselves.....i am just oh-sooooo-glad that at least for now, the right to CHOOSE still exists....and hell yea, i will ALWAYS support such rights for EVERYone down the road.
but yea, i haven't procreated so i guess my influence is nil, eh?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
completely agree. I think that birth control is so effective and easy to get that getting pregnant if you don't want to is almost irrelivant.
I think abortion is archaic and barbaric, but the freedom to choose your path is too important.
we should give a person the chance to do the right thing instead of assuming they will do the wrong one.
I can't help but notice the irony of this statement and all the threads we've had lately advocating that the government take over the healthcare system.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I don't think the difference is that great.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It is for people who do not have access to affordable healthcare...but I forget that is their problem.....
We'll never be "even." Cowards that take cheap shots don't sit well with me.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
If you scratch your nose, you've commited a holocaust in my mind. I take offense to people scratching their noses. Have you any idea how many millions of living cells are murdered by your selfish desire to rid yourself of an itch?
There's no irony there. I was making the point that each individual should have the right to make decisions regarding their own bodily integrity. From whether they take antibiotics, to whether they receive blood transfusions to whether to they choose to get pregnant to whether to they have an abortion. Governments have no business mandating healthcare decisions for its citizens.
Also, not every abortion is done simply because the woman does not want the baby. There are legitimate medical reasons for abortion to protect the mother's health. Also there are fatal medical conditions such as anencephaly (a form of spina bifida) that can be detected in a fetus before birth. Some women may choose to end the pregnancy when they know the baby won't survive.
Im sure I misunderstood.
Are you comparing the inception of a Human life inside the Womb with skin cells that flake off of our noses?
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
Well actually... the skin cells are mature cells and the intracellular mass of a blastocyst are only differential stem cells. But essentially all cellular life is the same.
Listen...Im not interested in an abortion debate.
Its self-righteous and wasted energy for me to try and change your mind.
Im more interested in the fact that a smart man such as yourself is able to seperate the fact that what something is in its state of origin and what it becomes later are somehow not related.
The cells in the womb go on to create Human life, the ones on our noses sluff (sp) off and dont have the ability to create a thing.
Its not logical to me, your line of reasoning...thats all.
Maybe you could explain it better.
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
I was being sarcastic, genius.
As long as you and Zarathustra there are getting your facts from ancient theology, you aren't going to understand my position.
There is nothing inherently special about human life.
I don't care what you believe in...but you are intolerable of the things other people believe in and that is wrong.
Those flaked off cells are important food for other species, are they not?
A log has the potential to become a door or a nice piece of furniture, does that stop you from stoking your fire?
How far do you want to take this potential stuff? That blastocyst also has the potential to become miscarried and a useless decaying mess. It has the potential of becoming stem cells used in therapy.
I'm pro-choice, I'm not intolerable.
Screw you.
Dont align me with anyone else.
And sarcasm is for weak-minded people.
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
You are definitely posting on the wrong boards if you can't appreciate sarcasm. :(
Do you know who Zarathustra is?
I almost googled it but Im too tired.
Is she pretty?
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
Its stupid and boring, why should I appreciate it anywhere I go?
So subtly is the fume of life designed
to clarify the pulse and cloud the mind
and leave us once again, undone.. possessed.
...
Be yourself- those who mind dont matter
and those who matter dont mind.
umm dude, lighten up ... you'll live longer.
IMO, good sarcasm is usually smart and funny.
Well, at least I have a TV.
But it's so loud, and there's no remote and I can't turn it down.
All I really want is to think.
I want to think about this for the last time.
I want to be sure that it’s something I lack.
I want to want this thing that’s inside me.
I want to get up and leave and never come back.
Oh dear God, I want to get this over with.
Oh dear God, I want someone to talk with.
Another woman walks in, and sits beside me in this makeshift room.
Like me she is wearing nothing but sneakers and socks and a gown.
We don't speak at first.
We're too busy looking each other up and down.
And then she does this thing that makes me want to cry.
She says, "This your first time, honey? You don't look like you belong".
And of course she's so right.
But I wish somehow that I could tell her she's wrong.
This thing that has happened, it's so wrong.
To think it just happened one night.
So I tell her, and she's nodding her head.
She looks at me with sympathy.
She says, "41 and it's your first time.....my oh my, you poor thing."
Then she turns to the TV and says, "I can't hear it, is there a remote?"
She finds it and turns The Judge up louder, while my words get stuck in my throat.
I don't say anything.
I just think about this whole thing.
Then the nurse calls my name, and I'm gone.
Just like that, this thing is gone.
And here I am a year later, still trying to think that this thing was all wrong.
A year later, and I still hope that getting rid of this thing wasn't wrong.
A year later, and I know that I'll forever be singing this song.
Was I wrong? Was I wrong?