America Supports You

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

Tell that to the close on 1 million Iraqi men, women and children who have been killed by these freedom giving troops. The troops should never have been sent to Iraq in the first place. The only people they're benefiting are a handful of Texas oil men, Bush and his cronies, and Halliburton.
This war is bullshit.

american troops have killed 1 million Iraqis? what the fuck is wrong with you?

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199302--.htm

sucks your so brainwashed by this nutcase

ledvedderman

jlew24asu wrote:

american troops have killed 1 million Iraqis? what the fuck is wrong with you?

No kidding, it's ONLY 600,000 who have died as a result of violence from our occupation

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

No kidding, it's ONLY 600,000 who have died as a result of violence from our occupation

more bullshit.

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

american troops have killed 1 million Iraqis? what the fuck is wrong with you?

I have weak ankles which are prone to spraining, and I get a pain in my kidneys whenever I drink alcohol these days. Other than that, i'm fine.

http://www.zmag.org/ZMagSite/Images/commentaryheaderad.gif

'Thanks to Roberts, his international team, Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, and the editorial board of the Lancet, we have a clearer picture of the violence taking place in Iraq than that presented by “mainstream” media. Allowing for 16 months of the air war and other deaths since the completion of the survey, we have to estimate that somewhere between 185,000 and 700,000 people have died as a direct result of the war. Coalition forces have killed anywhere from 70,000 to 500,000 of them, including 30,000 to 275,000 children under the age of 15.'

This article was publihed in 2005.

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

what the fuck is wrong with you?

jlew24asu wrote:

sucks your so brainwashed by this nutcase

I wonder what you get out the personal attacks, besides a good vent. It remains that when the dust settles, you've not furthered your case in any way.

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

I have weak ankles which are prone to spraining, and I get a pain in my kidneys whenever I drink alcohol these days. Other than that, i'm fine.

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2006/davies0206.html

'Thanks to Roberts, his international team, Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, and the editorial board of the Lancet, we have a clearer picture of the violence taking place in Iraq than that presented by “mainstream” media. Allowing for 16 months of the air war and other deaths since the completion of the survey, we have to estimate that somewhere between 185,000 and 700,000 people have died as a direct result of the war. Coalition forces have killed anywhere from 70,000 to 500,000 of them, including 30,000 to 275,000 children under the age of 15.'

This article was publihed in 2005.

thats your proof? beyond a reasonable doubt huh? i'm still looking for the million number.

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

I wonder what you get out the personal attacks, besides a good vent. It remains that when the dust settles, you've not furthered your case in any way.

when someone accuses american troops of killing 1,000,000 people I get a little cranky

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

when someone accuses american troops of killing 1,000,000 people I get a little cranking

I can understand that. I would think it would inspire you to make an airtight case regarding what you see as injustice.

jlew24asu

angelica wrote:

I can understand that. I would think it would inspire you to make an airtight case regarding what you see as injustice.

I shouldnt have to. any reasonable logical thinking person knows its just not true. but just so people know.

this 650,000 dead number comes from a survey of 1,872 households in Baghdad. is this proof that 650,000 people have actually died? no.

now we want to almost double that number and round up to a million ? pisses me off.

angelica

jlew24asu wrote:

I shouldnt have to. any reasonable logical thinking person knows its just not true. but just so people know.

this 650,000 dead number comes from a survey of 1,872 households in Baghdad. is this proof that 650,000 people have actually died? no.

now we want to almost double that number and round up to a million ? pisses me off.

The point is, if you are here to speak your points and do them justice that is one thing. Those who oppose you are talking from a different perspective and will not make your case for you. Suit yourself if you want to use your time venting, rather than furthering the cause or making your point. If you're looking to get your emotions off your chest, that's fine.

macgyver06

CorporateWhore wrote:

What freedoms are they securing exactly?

Don't get me wrong, I got family in the army and I love our troops. I support them until the end.

But in Iraq, what freedoms are they securing for us here in America?

i'm starting to believe that some don't want to believe the truth, because than they might feel compelled to do whats rigth and stand against it..

and theres just not enough time between starbucks breaks for that

sapperskunk

Byrnzie wrote:

What regiment were you in? Doesn't sound like your job was to shoot anyone. Were you in the actual army, or working for reconstruction projects or something?

Of course I was in the Army, I was a Combat Engineer or SAPPER. It's a recon/demo specialist. It's so broad, you could be doing anything. From radio operator, to gunner to driver to carpenter to raids (infantry shit) I've done it all. And that goes for ALL of those units in Kosovo. Everybody does anything to help out, regardless of your specialty. Only a couple of guys out of 250 or so in my battalion during the entire 6 months I was deployed, fired their weapon. I was one of them.

Neither of us hit anybody and was just doing it for suppresive fire for some exceptionally hardcore Green Berets we accompanied one afternoon. Although they'll never admit it, I got a feeling those guys took us across the border into Serbia. But that's a different story.

But like I said, nobody got hurt, I think a couple guys died before we got there when they rolled their HMMWV (humvee). We had local Albanians working on our camp, one in particular who worked at our sewing center who only had one hand. Apparently some Serb troops had some fun with her and then decided to cut her hand off for fun. I don't care who you are, that shit's disgusting. I had recently turned 18 when I saw a mass grave out there. About 13 or so people, a couple of familys I think. And at that very moment, I realized how fucked people are in this world. Ugh.

Sometimes you just have to put the politics aside.

Heineken Helen

sapperskunk wrote:

Of course I was in the Army, I was a Combat Engineer or SAPPER. It's a recon/demo specialist. It's so broad, you could be doing anything. From radio operator, to gunner to driver to carpenter to raids (infantry shit) I've done it all. And that goes for ALL of those units in Kosovo. Everybody does anything to help out, regardless of your specialty. Only a couple of guys out of 250 or so in my battalion during the entire 6 months I was deployed, fired their weapon. I was one of them.

My brother also did 6 months in Kosovo for the Irish army... he was convoy commander to the US Marines... but he did loads of other stuff too.

ledvedderman

sapperskunk wrote:

Only a couple of guys out of 250 or so in my battalion during the entire 6 months I was deployed, fired their weapon. I was one of them.

There's something wrong about putting a smiley after the fact that you had to fire a weapon. I don't see that as a badge of honor.

Byrnzie

sapperskunk wrote:

Of course I was in the Army, I was a Combat Engineer or SAPPER. It's a recon/demo specialist. It's so broad, you could be doing anything. From radio operator, to gunner to driver to carpenter to raids (infantry shit) I've done it all. And that goes for ALL of those units in Kosovo. Everybody does anything to help out, regardless of your specialty. Only a couple of guys out of 250 or so in my battalion during the entire 6 months I was deployed, fired their weapon. I was one of them.

Neither of us hit anybody and was just doing it for suppresive fire for some exceptionally hardcore Green Berets we accompanied one afternoon. Although they'll never admit it, I got a feeling those guys took us across the border into Serbia. But that's a different story.

But like I said, nobody got hurt, I think a couple guys died before we got there when they rolled their HMMWV (humvee). We had local Albanians working on our camp, one in particular who worked at our sewing center who only had one hand. Apparently some Serb troops had some fun with her and then decided to cut her hand off for fun. I don't care who you are, that shit's disgusting. I had recently turned 18 when I saw a mass grave out there. About 13 or so people, a couple of familys I think. And at that very moment, I realized how fucked people are in this world. Ugh.

Sometimes you just have to put the politics aside.

I should have known by your board name. I'm having a dumb day today. So are you still signed up or have you quit the forces?

Kann

jlew24asu wrote:

this 650,000 dead number comes from a survey of 1,872 households in Baghdad. is this proof that 650,000 people have actually died? no.

It may not be proof but it's the closest you have. It's just some statistical work giving an approximated number. If you dismiss the logic behind the study you'd dismiss the 'truths' of numbers of public health issues (that cigarettes cause cancer for example, or that 40 million people are infected by HIV - edit : that's worldwide).

Truthmonger

Jeremy2009 wrote:

Just felt like expressing some thanks to all of those that are serving or have served in the military. We cannot do what we do if it werent for what you and your families do to secure our freedoms. Thanks!

John

To be honest, I'm having a bit of a problem excusing certain elements within the U.S. who are supposedly innocent (i.e.: the troops who are just doing their jobs) in the arenas of Iraq per se, or America's foreign policies in general. I think its time people stopped blaming the current administration exclusively, and started looking at how the U.S., as the sum of its parts, got in the position its in. Its YOU America, in whole and in part, that put the troops where they are today.

And you can start with the American electorate who first voted these war-mongering Republican scumbags into power ... AND THEN AGAIN 4 YEARS LATER. WTF is wrong with the avg. American anyways ?????? The whole world screams about the lies wrt Iraq etc, and Americans hold fast to Trent Lott and Bill Kristol like there's no fucking tomorrow. Remember William Kristol (?), that neocon fuck who was wrong about virtually everything relating to iraq and war......

Or how about the American media ? It was not only AWOL in its duties, but in some cases it actually facilitated lies about Iraq and 9/11 connections ....Judith Miller and the NY Times can kiss my ass. So can Time Magazine, who just hired Kristol - apparently for his unmatched ability to predict and analyze....

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/opinion_columnists/article/0,2777,DRMN_23972_5281585,00.html

As for the troops, I'm tired of hearing how they're innocent victims in all of this. First of all, given America's penchant for lying its way into wars, why would anyone EVER want to serve in the American forces ?? Secondly, its now pretty evident that the troops must be engaging in willful blindness as it relates to their actions in Iraq. Nothing the Bush adminstration said about Iraq has come true, and that was abundantly clear even beofre the war started.

Byrnzie

Truthmonger wrote:

why would anyone EVER want to serve in the American forces ??

Money and adventure are the main reasons. Money being prime. A lot of these dudes hail from, and are targeted in, deprived areas and communities. Although of course there are many different reasons for anyone wanting to join up.
And i agree with what you said above, but i beleive that the majority of troops over there are just as much victims of this bullshit war as everyone who is suffering because of it.

jlew24asu

Kann wrote:

It may not be proof but it's the closest you have. It's just some statistical work giving an approximated number. If you dismiss the logic behind the study you'd dismiss the 'truths' of numbers of public health issues (that cigarettes cause cancer for example, or that 40 million people are infected by HIV - edit : that's worldwide).

your comparing 2 different things.