Britney Spears/Paparazzi

mammasan

angelica wrote:

The first post in this thread is about how Britney was attacked. Most of the following posts are about how Britney deserves what she gets. It's clear there is a lot of judgment, blame and hostility. I'm wondering: where exactly is this realism you speak of?

??????

The realism I speak of is that many of these stars seek out the paparazzi . They want to grace the pages of these celebrity magazines because it gives them exposure and it helps them sell records or draw more people to see their movie. Then they turn around and complain when the paparazii is their to catch them in a bad moment. You can't have it both ways. You can't expect the paparazzi to be there when you need them and just scurry away when you don't.

angelica

cutback wrote:

She doing exactly what the paparazzi wants. Britney, get out of LA!

I have huge amounts of empathy for Britney. I support her in finding what she needs to find her peace. I also loved the Craig Ferguson clip you linked earlier.

Ultimately, I've been in very many an ugly situation, in desperate need of help--being psychiatrically "committed" against my will on a few occasions, escaping from the psychiatric hospital on one, being removed from people's homes with a police escort while under the heavy influence of alcohol, etc, all the while being the mother of a young daughter and son. It was undoubtedly only because of the kindness, empathy and support of others that I was enabled to find better ways--ways that made my healing possible. And at the same time, ultimately, no matter how difficult it was, or how ill I was, I was the one and the only person who could make those changes for myself.

While she's responsible for her actions, it makes me ill that our society is so shaming, judgmental and hostile towards what they don't understand.

norm

angelica wrote:

I have huge amounts of empathy for Britney. I support her in finding what she needs to find her peace. I also loved the Craig Ferguson clip you linked earlier.

Ultimately, I've been in very many an ugly situation, in desperate need of help--being psychiatrically "committed" against my will on a few occasions, escaping from the psychiatric hospital on one, being removed from people's homes with a police escort while under the heavy influence of alcohol, etc, all the while being the mother of a young daughter and son. It was undoubtedly only because of the kindness, empathy and support of others that I was enabled to find better ways--ways that made my healing possible. And at the same time, ultimately, no matter how difficult it was, or how ill I was, I was the one and the only person who could make those changes for myself.

While she's responsible for her actions, it makes me ill that our society is so shaming, judgmental and hostile towards what they don't understand.

She doesn't have this. Everyone in her life depends on her celebrity for their livelihoods, including family. So until someone intervenes and gets her away from her life the way it is now she very well could end up like Anna Nicole.

And I'm glad at least someone watched the Craig Ferguson.

angelica

mammasan wrote:

The realism I speak of is that many of these stars seek out the paparazzi . They want to grace the pages of these celebrity magazines because it gives them exposure and it helps them sell records or draw more people to see their movie. Then they turn around and complain when the paparazii is their to catch them in a bad moment. You can't have it both ways. You can't expect the paparazzi to be there when you need them and just scurry away when you don't.

I think that when most people have a bad moment, they are quick to blame the nearest person who is playing into their discomfort, whether it's a spouse, child or otherwise. For example, I'm in a relationship,--I chose it and I deliberately sustain it of my own volition--and yet, when I am not feeling happy or great, and my boyfriend says/does something that is irritating or antagonizing, it's very natural for me to want to lash out at that. It's not to say I'm not accountable for my actions in the least when I do lash out. I am fully accountable for all of my choices. The point I'm making is we ALL do this. We all choose our life situations at all time, and we all still manage to find ourselves having our mini-meldowns, nonetheless. Not just celebrities in the spotlight. In other words, let the innocent here cast the stones at Britney.

angelica

cutback wrote:

She doesn't have this. Everyone in her life depends on her celebrity for their livelihoods, including family. So until someone intervenes and gets her away from her life the way it is now she very well could end up like Anna Nicole.

And I'm glad at least someone watched the Craig Ferguson.

How do you know she doesn't have that? And that's the point of "rock bottom" for many people.

I did not have any support, myself. I was angry in my life for various reason due to my numerous psychiatric conditions and I had temper tantrums which further alienated all of those around me. I found myself even worse off--very mentally disabled as a single mother, AND deserted by all who used to be there for me. I slowly learned to build up what I needed, even from the depths of despair. The supports were not handed to me, regardless of my actions. It was an interactive deal. and again, the healing starts at rock bottom for some. I don't advocate leaving people to fall at all. But I'm not convinced she doesn't have supports. And no matter how bad it gets, she will always be the one who must decide for her.

I thank you for actually introducing me to Craig! I loved that!

baraka

angelica wrote:

How do you know she doesn't have that? And that's the point of "rock bottom" for many people.

I did not have any support, myself. I was angry in my life for various reason due to my numerous psychiatric conditions and I had temper tantrums which further alienated all of those around me. I found myself even worse off--very mentally disabled as a single mother, AND deserted by all who used to be there for me. I slowly learned to build up what I needed, even from the depths of despair. The supports were not handed to me, regardless of my actions. It was an interactive deal. and again, the healing starts at rock bottom for some. I don't advocate leaving people to fall at all. But I'm not convinced she doesn't have supports. And no matter how bad it gets, she will always be the one who must decide for her.

I thank you for actually introducing me to Craig! I loved that!

Sometimes you have to know the darkness to see the light!

mammasan

angelica wrote:

I think that when most people have a bad moment, they are quick to blame the nearest person who is playing into their discomfort, whether it's a spouse, child or otherwise. For example, I'm in a relationship,--I chose it and I deliberately sustain it of my own volition--and yet, when I am not feeling happy or great, and my boyfriend says/does something that is irritating or antagonizing, it's very natural for me to want to lash out at that. It's not to say I'm not accountable for my actions in the least when I do lash out. I am fully accountable for all of my choices. The point I'm making is we ALL do this. We all choose our life situations at all time, and we all still manage to find ourselves having our mini-meldowns, nonetheless. Not just celebrities in the spotlight. In other words, let the innocent here cast the stones at Britney.

I'm not casting any stones at her. Please I would be a complete hipocrite if I chastized her for letting her life spiral out of control.

angelica

baraka wrote:

Sometimes you have to know the darkness to see the light!

Hallelujah!! Amen!! For sure!! It took a LOT of darkness for me to realize it was the light of peace, happiness, reason, etc., that I truly sought! Hopefully this is one of the threads jeffbr is following....;)

angelica

mammasan wrote:

I'm not casting any stones at her. Please I would be a complete hipocrite if I chastized her for letting her life spiral out of control.

I apologize if it may have seemed I was saying that specifically to you. I do agree with the personal accountability issues you were pointing to as a part of the big picture.

norm

angelica wrote:

How do you know she doesn't have that? And that's the point of "rock bottom" for many people.

I did not have any support, myself. I was angry in my life for various reason due to my numerous psychiatric conditions and I had temper tantrums which further alienated all of those around me. I found myself even worse off--very mentally disabled as a single mother, AND deserted by all who used to be there for me. I slowly learned to build up what I needed, even from the depths of despair. The supports were not handed to me, regardless of my actions. It was an interactive deal. and again, the healing starts at rock bottom for some. I don't advocate leaving people to fall at all. But I'm not convinced she doesn't have supports. And no matter how bad it gets, she will always be the one who must decide for her.

I thank you for actually introducing me to Craig! I loved that!

Yes perhaps she hasn't seen rock bottom. And I know that is what is need before she can accept help. But I'm cynical when it comes to celebrity because I know the system in Hollywood. No one really cares about you unless you can help them. And right now since Britney isn't working and the way she is acting, no one in the business is really gonna care. They might say it on camera or in the press but behind the scenes if she's not making them money they could give a fuck. If her mother really wants to help her she needs to take Britney out of LA and to rehab say in Minnesota at Hazeltine. Not Promises which is in Malibu on the ocean. That's just a glorified spa. I'm not being critical of her. I have the utmost sympathy for her. She's going through hell and needs support. But driving around LA with the stalkerazzi following her isn't gonna help.

I'm agreeing with you, but it's coming from my perspective.

soulsinging

pearljamharmony wrote:

That made my day, not going to lie. Everyone is so uptight and has to give the cliched answer of that the paparazzi are these vultures which is so stale. I do understand her mother (not her father because he is estranged) used her as a child but she turned 18 which was 7 years ago and her mother basically did the same thing to her little sister Jamie Lynn. THINK ABOUT THIS; Britney hasn't put out a record in what 3 or 4 years ago, COULDN't SHE JUST FADED INTO OBSCURITY? How many people care about Vitamin C, (most of 98 Degrees), Pink, Christina, JC Chavez, the Backstreet Boys, Limp Bizkit, and Ricky Martin? They all were her contemporaries, but they just don't act the same way and don't recieve the same attention? If she stopped acting like a freak and as someone said earlier "stopped feeding" them maybe they cameramen would have went away a long time ago. Look at this, SHE ATTACKED SOMEONE WITH A PORCH UMBRELLA, and BROKE THE WINDSHIELD OF A CAR, SHE HAS DROPPED HER OWN CHILDREN SEVERAL TIMES, PUT HER INFANT CHILD ON HER LAP AND HAD HIM "DRIVE" THE CAR, SHE WAS DRUNK DURING HER PREGNANCIES, SHE HAD A 55 HOUR WEDDING, SHE SHOWED HER NAUGHTY CLAM and C-SECTION SCAR, SHE HAS BEEN HANGING AROUND PAPARAZZI DARLING PARIS HILTON,SHE HAS BEEN A MESS FOR 3 YEARS, and SHE HAS BEEN A MESS FOR OVER 3 YEARS. Shes not right in the head, and the paparazzi are scumbags but she is an adult and can make her own decisions. Lately, all of those decisions have been nothing but entertaining fodder.

sorry for the caps I had to stress alot of things. If you think I'm a terrible person so are you, you just have the stones to point out the obvious in vulgar ways.

no, you're just a terrible person. your first post was sick. but im not going to change you. i only replied to this to talk about something important... what is this britney flashing thing, and where do i see it?

angelica

cutback wrote:

Yes perhaps she hasn't seen rock bottom. And I know that is what is need before she can accept help. But I'm cynical when it comes to celebrity because I know the system in Hollywood. No one really cares about you unless you can help them. And right now since Britney isn't working and the way she is acting, no one in the business is really gonna care. They might say it on camera or in the press but behind the scenes if she's not making them money they could give a fuck. If her mother really wants to help her she needs to take Britney out of LA and to rehab say in Minnesota at Hazeltine. Not Promises which is in Malibu on the ocean. That's just a glorified spa. I'm not being critical of her. I have the utmost sympathy for her. She's going through hell and needs support. But driving around LA with the stalkerazzi following her isn't gonna help.

I'm agreeing with you, but it's coming from my perspective.

I hear you, friend. It's quite easy to pick up on who is part of the solution here, and who is part of the problem, whether in Britney's life and in society, or in this thread.

norm

soulsinging wrote:

no, you're just a terrible person. your first post was sick. but im not going to change you. i only replied to this to talk about something important... what is this britney flashing thing, and where do i see it?

I'm assuming he's talking about the pics of her getting out of a car wearing a skirt and no underwear. You can probably find them online somewhere.

BTW, did you watch the Craig Ferguson clip I posted. I think you might like it.

angelica

chopitdown wrote:

you're making a huge assumption there

I think it's tough to prosecute the paparazzi b/c it's tough to prove, in some instances, that they are violating privacy, or causing assault. Assault is: An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another or The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another. It would be tough to prove in most instances that someone really feels threatened with bodily harm from a camera. Battery would be just as hard to prosecute I imagine b/c you'd have to prove intent to cause harm or inappropriate contact. Paparazzi aren't going anywhere, unfortunately, b/c we have freedom in this country. If a celebrity, or anyone, is in a public place they can have their picture taken...no matter if it's annoying or not. I hope that if someone can sue the tabloids / paparazzi (and win) they sue them for all they're worth.

If you don't want to live in the public eye and have the issues these people have don't live in LA or NYC where the paparazzi live.

You are talking about legal accountability. I am talking about accountability. You are talking about proving something in a court of law; I am talking about violation and infringement and the accountability one has for doing so, whether it's proven or rectified. In any interaction, there are clearly two parties. In the Britney scenario, she is not the only one participating and therefore, again, while she's accountable for her actions, she's only accountable for her own. She is not accountable for the input of the other party or parties that contribute to a negative outcome.

chopitdown

angelica wrote:

You are talking about legal accountability. I am talking about accountability. You are talking about proving something in a court of law; I am talking about violation and infringement and the accountability one has for doing so, whether it's proven or rectified. In any interaction, there are clearly two parties. In the Britney scenario, she is not the only one participating and therefore, again, while she's accountable for her actions, she's only accountable for her own. She is not accountable for the input of the other party or parties that contribute to a negative outcome.

i used the legal accountability b/c at least it's a common reference point rather than the feelings of a person. Please don't get me wrong; I think what is happening to her and all celebs by the paparazzi/ stalkarazzi is terrible and they do contribute to a lot of the problems these people go through. I got a cup of coffee today and you know what it was so nice not having to worry about someone taking my picture or coming up to my car or chasing me back to my car or following me in my car to see where I ended up (the library...i live a rock-star life ) I can get cranky at family dinners when i KNOW pictures are going to be taken I cant imagine how it would feel to know that as soon as you step outside there are any number of people waiting to capture some screw up or event on camera.

angelica

chopitdown wrote:

i used the legal accountability b/c at least it's a common reference point rather than the feelings of a person.

I'm talking about pretty basic logic and some simple value assessment. Britney doesn't control the paparazzi folk's actions. Therefore when she is involved in an issue whereupon there are two parties contributing to a bad situation and one party is a representative of the paparazzi, it's pretty clear there are two parties to hold accountable: Britney and the paparazzi. We have a problem in our western society in that when we remove value judgments from our arguments, we therefore we can't process the value and meaning of what actually happens.

Please don't get me wrong; I think what is happening to her and all celebs by the paparazzi/ stalkarazzi is terrible and they do contribute to a lot of the problems these people go through. I got a cup of coffee today and you know what it was so nice not having to worry about someone taking my picture or coming up to my car or chasing me back to my car or following me in my car to see where I ended up (the library...i live a rock-star life ) I can get cranky at family dinners when i KNOW pictures are going to be taken I cant imagine how it would feel to know that as soon as you step outside there are any number of people waiting to capture some screw up or event on camera.

I understand you're talking about relevent reasonable points and are not contributing to the problem by being judgmental, hostile or insensitive. (libraries are one of my fave hangouts, btw! )

soulsinging

cutback wrote:

I'm assuming he's talking about the pics of her getting out of a car wearing a skirt and no underwear. You can probably find them online somewhere.

BTW, did you watch the Craig Ferguson clip I posted. I think you might like it.

well, now ive got a saturday night project

i didnt see the clip but ill go back and search it out.

norm

soulsinging wrote:

well, now ive got a saturday night project

i didnt see the clip but ill go back and search it out.

Don't say I've never done anything for you.

Everyone be warned. Do not click on the link if you don't want to see Britney's babymaker.

http://perezhilton.com/topics/exclusives/thats_it_were_gonna_say_it_20070121.php

angelica

right! tell us not to look and we can't help ourselves!! :rolleyes:

As sad as this pathetic media frenzy is, I did find the arrows and close-up angles in of themselves hysterical.

....and "babymaker"???? Sheesh! :rolleyes: where've I been??? I'm just so not up on the phrases and terms you kids use these days!

norm

angelica wrote:

right! tell us not to look and we can't help ourselves!! :rolleyes:

As sad as this pathetic media frenzy is, I did find the arrows and close-up angles in of themselves hysterical.

....and "babymaker"???? Sheesh! :rolleyes: where've I been??? I'm just so not up on the phrases and terms you kids use these days!

Thanks for calling me a kid. If it were only true. :(