the system is flawed

ReleaseMe...ReleaseMe... Posts: 494
edited November 2008 in A Moving Train
it is
Mansfield II: # 23, since '03

routine was the theme..

there aint gonna be any middle any more
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • BinFrogBinFrog MA Posts: 7,309
    If you want to start a conversation you might want to give more info than "it is". Less is sometimes more, but here's it's, well, less.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Electoral College discussion?
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • It was flawed in 2000 but it has worked both elections since. The popular vote and electorate have had the same outcome.
    the Minions
  • SVRDhand13SVRDhand13 Posts: 26,517
    it is
    Thanks for the insight.
    severed hand thirteen
    2006: Gorge 7/23 2008: Hartford 6/27 Beacon 7/1 2009: Spectrum 10/30-31
    2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
    2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
    2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
    2017: RRHoF 4/7   2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4   2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18 
    2022: MSG 9/11  2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
    2025: Pittsburgh 5/16+5/18
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    I don't know

    It worked pretty good last night
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    it is
    You have total agreement from me.

    Of course many are riding on a high now....so they aren't so willing to see the flaws. And when their guy begins to take flawed action, many will justify it, so as to reduce cognitive dissonance within....

    And still...the system is mightily flawed. The way people deal with the flaws generally is by denying them, and when they arise, to pin the blame on someone else..using good/bad duality, rather than an overall perception, understanding and realism.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • it is


    if by flawed you mean " the fact that the American People went out and made their voices be heard and chose a President by a landslide" then I guess it is flawed :rolleyes:
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • SVRDhand13SVRDhand13 Posts: 26,517
    angelica wrote:
    You have total agreement from me.

    Of course many are riding on a high now....so they aren't so willing to see the flaws. And when their guy begins to take flawed action, many will justify it, so as to reduce cognitive dissonance within....

    And still...the system is mightily flawed. The way people deal with the flaws generally is by denying them, and when they arise, to pin the blame on someone else..using good/bad duality, rather than an overall perception, understanding and realism.
    And yet you don't mention any flaws here.
    severed hand thirteen
    2006: Gorge 7/23 2008: Hartford 6/27 Beacon 7/1 2009: Spectrum 10/30-31
    2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
    2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
    2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
    2017: RRHoF 4/7   2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4   2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18 
    2022: MSG 9/11  2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
    2025: Pittsburgh 5/16+5/18
  • angelica wrote:
    You have total agreement from me.

    Of course many are riding on a high now....so they aren't so willing to see the flaws. And when their guy begins to take flawed action, many will justify it, so as to reduce cognitive dissonance within....

    And still...the system is mightily flawed. The way people deal with the flaws generally is by denying them, and when they arise, to pin the blame on someone else..using good/bad duality, rather than an overall perception, understanding and realism.

    Please humor me and attempt to explain to me what you mean with flawed system.
    Because what we saw yesterday was democracy ( as oppose to example: 2000 Election) yesterday the people in this country chose who they want to give a chance for change.... and that's what this country is all about.

    President elect Barack Obama will be held up to everything he promised and we will see in 4 years what he accomplished and where we are at.

    Last time I checked Democracy was not a flaw in the system.

    We might be riding on a high, and why not all of us who supported President elect Back Obama made history, but all of you who didn't are ultimately just sour grapes.
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Please humor me and attempt to explain to me what you mean with flawed system.
    Because what we saw yesterday was democracy ( as oppose to example: 2000 Election) yesterday the people in this country chose who they want to give a chance for change.... and that's what this country is all about.

    President elect Barack Obama will be held up to everything he promised and we will see in 4 years what he accomplished and where we are at.

    Last time I checked Democracy was not a flaw in the system.

    We might be riding on a high, and why not all of us who supported President elect Back Obama made history, but all of you who didn't are ultimately just sour grapes.
    Are you saying because Obama is now about to be sworn in as President that all the deplorable aspects of the system, which we've all (the whole world) so painfully faced for 8 years, just don't exist?

    Interesting...
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    SVRDhand13 wrote:
    And yet you don't mention any flaws here.
    My mentioning them is a separate issue as to whether or not they exist.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica wrote:
    Are you saying because Obama is now about to be sworn in as President that all the deplorable aspects of the system, which we've all (the whole world) so painfully faced for 8 years, just don't exist?

    Interesting...


    No that's not what I said.

    The OP makes a statement right after an election which obviously is referring to the victory of President elect Barack Obama and if he didn't then maybe he should have considered contributing more to his post.

    What we saw happen yesterday was Democracy and there is nothing flawed with that is what I said.

    That Washington is flawed you bet it is, and I'm hopeful that this is when thigs will start changing.
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • memememe Posts: 4,695
    Can we fix it? Yes we can!
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • it is


    yes it is.
    do please mention one system that is *perfect*....without flaws, b/c i know of none. flaws exist, but that does not mean that the system does not always represent the will and desires of the people.



    change comes in waves....:)


    however, for today i am happy....flaws or not...b/c i think what we have today truly DOES represent the will of the people and speaks volumes of what we want to see for the future of this country. i am a truly flawed human being, as most people are....does not mean i can not work, cannot achieve greatness, cannot work towards my betterment and towars the betterment of the world. the world is an imperfect place....if we only accept perfection, we will get no where, fast.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • faithful2youfaithful2you Madison, WI Posts: 779
    meme wrote:
    Can we fix it? Yes we can!
    That's going to get old in a hurry Bob. :)
    Like a word misplaced...nothing said...what a waste
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    No that's not what I said.

    The OP makes a statement right after an election which obviously is referring to the vistory of President elect Barack Obama and he didn't then maybe he should have considered contributing more to his post.

    What we saw happen yesterday was Democracy and there is nothing flawed with that is what I said.

    That Washington is flawed you bet it is, and I'm hopeful that this is when thigs will start changing.
    The OP made a very vague, very short statement.

    If people want to assume what that means, and respond to an assumption that's fine.

    To me, I see there are myriad reasons the system is flawed.

    For me, one of them is that clearly Obama has shown that he operates from duality thinking. And he represents a country that clearly generally operates from duality thinking. Therefore the time is coming where the US is going to consider themselves "right" and someone else "wrong" and will take action against the "wrong" party...perpetuating the blindness of denial and fragmented perception, and contributing to killing and death in the world. All the while perpetuating the ugliness in the human heart, and not rising to the occasion of understanding and problem solving.

    I see many strengths Obama brings to the table, and hopefully he will have the ability to operate from those strengths for the most part. As opposed to having to bow to the majority who are not yet at his stage of awareness and will demand, rightfully so, that he represent them. Ultimately, we're only as strong as our weakest link.

    The system is flawed....
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • faithful2youfaithful2you Madison, WI Posts: 779
    if by flawed you mean " the fact that the American People went out and made their voices be heard and chose a President by a landslide" then I guess it is flawed :rolleyes:
    you call that a landslide?
    Like a word misplaced...nothing said...what a waste
  • I once bought some pants that were flawed. I actually wore them.

    WTF????arewetalkingabout
    the Minions
  • you call that a landslide?


    comparing to the last 2 elections and the fact that he turned not one but several red states blue yes I chose to call it that...

    I think that states like OH, FL, IN, NM, CO, NV, VA voted for a Democratic president president speak much louder than how many electoral votes they have...
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • comparing to the last 2 elections and the fact that he turned not one but several red states blue yes I chose to call it that...

    I think that states like OH, FL, IN, NM, CO, NV, VA voted for a Democratic president president speak much louder than how many electoral votes they have...


    besides, the fact, his electoral vote count was pretty damn impressive in it's own right.



    as i said earlier...yep, the system is 'flawed' as is almost all systems. still does not mean it does not represent the will and desires of the people. it's a long, hard road ahead...i think we as a country chose the right president-elect to guide us through it. and if we didn't, we will reap what we sow. at least right now, as a collective, i feel like we DID make this choice, and it does speak volumes.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • besides, the fact, his electoral vote count was pretty damn impressive in it's own right.



    as i said earlier...yep, the system is 'flawed' as is almost all systems. still does not mean it does not represent the will and desires of the people. it's a long, hard road ahead...i think we as a country chose the right president-elect to guide us through it. and if we didn't, we will reap what we sow. at least right now, as a collective, i feel like we DID make this choice, and it does speak volumes.


    I think what happened yesterday showed how desperatly people want something to work, something to change and we will see if President elect Barack Obama delivers, he gives me hope and that's why I supported him but at the end of the day is not about being democrat, republican or independent its about what the candidate elected does to benefit your country and your family and if it doesnt work out in 4 years again the people like you and I will have a chance to look for change again...

    For now, I'm hopeful and today I'm proud of America.
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,780
    I dont hate the Electoral system.

    However, I think that it is flawed that no matter how I vote, NYS is already decided. All elections usually come down to the same 2 or 3 states... It seems that the elections are put in the hands of a much smaller number of voters than the USA.
  • I once bought some pants that were flawed. I actually wore them.

    WTF????arewetalkingabout


    :D:D:D LMAO!
    "Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
  • I think what happened yesterday showed how desperatly people want something to work, something to change and we will see if President elect Barack Obama delivers, he gives me hope and that's why I supported him but at the end of the day is not about being democrat, republican or independent its about what the candidate elected does to benefit your country and your family and if it doesnt work out in 4 years again the people like you and I will have a chance to look for change again...

    For now, I'm hopeful and today I'm proud of America.



    exactly.


    and sure, absolutely..i can and do believe this two-party system is flawed, that i don't even believe in parties, etc. however, i am of the belief that change comes from WITHIN. work in the system to change the system. others believe otherwise, and all act accordingly. so be it and as it should be.


    but you betcha....today i am HAPPY.
    i do not feel this disconnect from my fellow citizens as i was truly starting to believe over the past 8 years....and you betcha...i am HOPEFUL. and even within our current, imperfect system.....every 4 years we get the opportunity to change it. :) that's a pretty damn good feature of this flawed system of ours.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038

    as i said earlier...yep, the system is 'flawed' as is almost all systems. still does not mean it does not represent the will and desires of the people. it's a long, hard road ahead...i think we as a country chose the right president-elect to guide us through it. and if we didn't, we will reap what we sow. at least right now, as a collective, i feel like we DID make this choice, and it does speak volumes.
    I agree with you! it speaks good and healthy volumes. As some more right-wing people would point out, there will be a cost in other ways, even if this was a necessary choice.

    I always agree that the system represents the will of the people, even in ways they are unconscious of. And most of the world is very happy right now that you all as a group have made this progress. That's awesome! It's just realistic, at the same time, to know there are also gaping flaws..we're evolving. It's the way it is, that we learn to adapt to what is not working. Denial never works. Everyone is held to account in one way or another for all choices. Hope is amazing, to stay inspired, and if it's at the cost of realism, we'll be brought down to earth. I prefer and healthy mixture of hope AND realism!
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica wrote:
    The OP made a very vague, very short statement.

    If people want to assume what that means, and respond to an assumption that's fine.

    To me, I see there are myriad reasons the system is flawed.

    For me, one of them is that clearly Obama has shown that he operates from duality thinking. And he represents a country that clearly generally operates from duality thinking. Therefore the time is coming where the US is going to consider themselves "right" and someone else "wrong" and will take action against the "wrong" party...perpetuating the blindness of denial and fragmented perception, and contributing to killing and death in the world. All the while perpetuating the ugliness in the human heart, and not rising to the occasion of understanding and problem solving.

    I see many strengths Obama brings to the table, and hopefully he will have the ability to operate from those strengths for the most part. As opposed to having to bow to the majority who are not yet at his stage of awareness and will demand, rightfully so, that he represent them. Ultimately, we're only as strong as our weakest link.

    The system is flawed....

    Yes the system is flawed and has become more so as the years pile on.

    You say that Obama operates from duality thinking. And Bush, Cheney, McCain or Palin don't? In your mind what is the solution, or movement to a solution? We already live in a time where the US feels and act on the "right" and "wrong", where have you been, especially the last 8 years where it has reared its ugly head even more?

    Yes, we live in a world of duality which is the challenge ... I would rather have a leader that can inspire hope and motivate folks to feel empowered. Maybe a few folks will awaken ...

    You use high concepts that are highly idealistic with no offer of vision.

    Yes the system is flawed, though what is it that you are actually visioning for the betterment of life, this country, the world at large?

    Awareness is wonderful, though how do you inspire it, as it can't be forced.
    "i'm a dedicated insomniac" ~ ev nyc beacon 6/22
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Yes the system is flawed and has become more so as the years pile on.

    You say that Obama operates from duality thinking. And Bush, Cheney, McCain or Palin don't? In your mind what is the solution, or movement to a solution? We already live in a time where the US feels and act on the "right" and "wrong", where have you been, especially the last 8 years where it has reared its ugly head even more?
    As I said..the system is flawed!!

    As far as offering vision and solutions, the majority isn't even close to understanding or voting for problem-solving or vision. I was very heartened to see both emerge on the American stage through the voices of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. That says something about the American people that those two rose to the positions they did, and are able to influence people as we speak. And yet, the majority has shown that they do not yet see beyond the duality in order to comprehend understanding and problem-solving.
    Yes, we live in a world of duality which is the challenge
    The way I see it is that duality is a worldview -- a mindset. Its is not a property of the world itself. When people clear up their duality programming, they move into understanding, awareness, know-ledge, etc.

    ... I would rather have a leader that can inspire hope and motivate folks to feel empowered. Maybe a few folks will awaken ...
    I agree Obama has some amazing skills. And he has a great potential. However, I am still concerned when anyone projects the lack and darkness of their own heart onto others. It's the dark underbelly of humanity. Denial of it merely perpetuates the problem. Awakening is also about awakening to our lack and how we contribute to our problems, so as to use our higher functions in problem solving and resolving our conflicts, rather than perpetuating them.
    You use high concepts that are highly idealistic with no offer of vision.

    Yes the system is flawed, though what is it that you are actually visioning for the betterment of life, this country, the world at large?

    Awareness is wonderful, though how do you inspire it, as it can't be forced.
    My intention in this thread is to call attention to blind spots. When we address our weak links, we can use our "flaws" as a vehicle to awakening and overcoming. My high ideals are fully tempered by a firm sense of reality.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • when people dont know WHY they are voting for someone (not the brilliant people posting on amt), and basically only vote for them because of his skin color or because his opponent is depicted as a friend of the devil, then theres a problem. when a popular vote so close turns into a landslide electoral college victory, theres a problem.
    Mansfield II: # 23, since '03

    routine was the theme..

    there aint gonna be any middle any more
  • angelica wrote:
    As I said..the system is flawed!!

    As far as offering vision and solutions, the majority isn't even close to understanding or voting for problem-solving or vision. I was very heartened to see both emerge on the American stage through the voices of Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. That says something about the American people that those two rose to the positions they did, and are able to influence people as we speak. And yet, the majority has shown that they do not yet see beyond the duality in order to comprehend understanding and problem-solving.

    The way I see it is that duality is a worldview -- a mindset. Its is not a property of the world itself. When people clear up their duality programming, they move into understanding, awareness, know-ledge, etc.


    I agree Obama has some amazing skills. And he has a great potential. However, I am still concerned when anyone projects the lack and darkness of their own heart onto others. It's the dark underbelly of humanity. Denial of it merely perpetuates the problem. Awakening is also about awakening to our lack and how we contribute to our problems, so as to use our higher functions in problem solving and resolving our conflicts, rather than perpetuating them.

    My intention in this thread is to call attention to blind spots. When we address our weak links, we can use our "flaws" as a vehicle to awakening and overcoming. My high ideals are fully tempered by a firm sense of reality.

    Thank you. I wasn't clear on your intentions and now understand where you are coming from. I appreciate your stance and concerns. Well said on projection!

    This wave of hope was needed, and I am glad the opportunity has arrived. With this I am hoping for the best for all and am working towards greater awareness and responsibility in myself as well.

    Cheers to you!
    "i'm a dedicated insomniac" ~ ev nyc beacon 6/22
  • when people dont know WHY they are voting for someone (not the brilliant people posting on amt), and basically only vote for them because of his skin color or because his opponent is depicted as a friend of the devil, then theres a problem. when a popular vote so close turns into a landslide electoral college victory, theres a problem.



    that has existed even without skin color being an issuel educating the voting public requires the oting public to also work to educate themselves as well. it's not so simple to point at race alone, people vote for a myriad of reasons, and oftentimes, misinformation or on shallow, baseless extraneous items, not issues.



    as to the 'close' popular vote, i may be mistaken but i thought on the coverage last night that it was actually stated it was one of the 'biggest' gaps in the popular vote in many, many years? i think we are such a HUGE country, and we have been soo dividied for so long. i think the *extreme* has gotten way too much play, and too many want to see their way of thinking as the way of the land...instead of focusing on commonalities and choices, freedom of such choices, etc. i think a reembrace of the seperation of church and state would be a positive first step, and if people se it as a good thing...we might become moe unified in our approach, and our government.


    bottomline....even with a huge gap in the electoral and not so huge in the popular vote....we STILL got the candidate as president-elect that the MOST americans want. more than what we can say in recent, past elections.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


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