So your answer that is it ok because it is a reaction?
Let me explain this problem even if going by your logic and rational.
Let's say Palestine is under occupation and Israel is everything you claim about them. With this stated, we both know, any Palestinian violence towards Israeli's in any manner causes bulldozing, killing, etc... ie - violence is recipricated with violence in return. So what is your solution? You claim it is ok for some sort of retaliation by Palestinian groups, but as stated, it only further's violence back towards them, which continues the cycle. Which is exactly why we see this conflict continued in the same exact manner and the closest we've ever seen a peaceful settlement and progress was during the non-violent time during the Oslo accords.
Do you not understand that Palestine has tried, and still does, TONS of different non-violent measures? They do protests all the time, demonstrations, etc... they've done just about EVERY single type of non-violent measure. The ONLY thing, however, that brings any attention to this conflict is VIOLENCE. Not just that, but you do realize that no matter what, Israel will inflict violence in the region. They've proved that for the past... 80 years?
If you protest you're shot at...they even shoot people in wheelchairs who protest...
uhh...yeah but they should protest more...
but you get shot at, harassed, arrested and, beat up all the time for having an opinion.
uhhh......uhhh....uh.....So???!!?!
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
This is partially correct but not fully. It is very ovbious that many terror groups don't comply with cease-fires, or break them for whatever reasons. To say anyone in just in their violence is merely furthering the hate and violence we see - this is something you don't acknowledge, because you feel "your side" in the confrontation is just - that's called a bias.
Do you not understand that Palestine has tried, and still does, TONS of different non-violent measures? They do protests all the time, demonstrations, etc... they've done just about EVERY single type of non-violent measure. The ONLY thing, however, that brings any attention to this conflict is VIOLENCE. Not just that, but you do realize that no matter what, Israel will inflict violence in the region. They've proved that for the past... 80 years?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Violence begets violence - not a hard concept to grasp but if you don't recognize this fact, you're doomed to reap the results (no matter which side you're on).
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Violence begets violence - not a hard concept to grasp but if you don't recognize this fact, you're doomed to reap the results (no matter which side you're on).
If it's not such a hard concept to grasp, then why don't you realize that ISRAELI violence begets PALESTINIAN violence, and NOT the other way around??
This is partially correct but not fully. It is very ovbious that many terror groups don't comply with cease-fires, or break them for whatever reasons. To say anyone in just in their violence is merely furthering the hate and violence we see - this is something you don't acknowledge, because you feel "your side" in the confrontation is just - that's called a bias.
No, it's completely correct. Even your "terror groups" ALWAYS use non-violent protests, in addition to their violent approach. however, non-violent protests and demonstrations have been a part of Palestinians' fighting for freedom for 80 years now. Also, you fail to mention how many ceasefires the Israelis broke.
If it's not such a hard concept to grasp, then why don't you realize that ISRAELI violence begets PALESTINIAN violence, and NOT the other way around??
What?!?!
oh no...that could never be the case...
They're TERRORISTS!!!! the TV said so!
Bush even said so before telling the truth about Iraq....oh wait Iraq was actually lie...
no matter....the TV said so...and that's all the matters...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Like I said previously, in this point in time, both sides are guilty of causing or furthering the violence. If you don't participate in it, you will not see it in return. That's the point. It is past the post saying, we're gonna do x, because they did y. If you want results, break the cycle of violence.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Like I said previously, in this point in time, both sides are guilty of causing or furthering the violence. If you don't participate in it, you will not see it in return. That's the point. It is past the post saying, we're gonna do x, because they did y. If you want results, break the cycle of violence.
"If you don't participate in it, you will not see it in return" ?????
what? is this serious? I'm sorry, but it's not so simple as you try to make it. Earlier you talked about being REALISTIC, but telling the Israelis to stop the violence won't work.
As for the Palestinians, I've said time and time again, they do MANY non-violent protests and demonstrations, but the Israelis still respond with violent tactics. For some reason, you choose to ignore EVERYTHING though and go with "let's just throw all weapons in the sea and have a picnic".
Like I said previously, in this point in time, both sides are guilty of causing or furthering the violence. If you don't participate in it, you will not see it in return. That's the point. It is past the post saying, we're gonna do x, because they did y. If you want results, break the cycle of violence.
Give me your address... I'm taking your house.. you can live in the ditch across the street.
If you get angry and violent expect it back.
Sounds cool to me.
edit: better yet..... I'm taking your neighbors house too, and if he gets angry or violent...it's your problem also. I'll just mobilize my 4th largest military in the world to answer your unjust concerns
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
This was the closest way we've ever seen a real break through to a long lasting peace process.
You're solution is basically, make demands - which won't come to fruition, then when they fail, it's ok to continue with violence in response - which will in turn, cause your side to be the victim of more violence... see where I'm going with this? It doesn't end.
"If you don't participate in it, you will not see it in return" ?????
what? is this serious? I'm sorry, but it's not so simple as you try to make it. Earlier you talked about being REALISTIC, but telling the Israelis to stop the violence won't work.
As for the Palestinians, I've said time and time again, they do MANY non-violent protests and demonstrations, but the Israelis still respond with violent tactics. For some reason, you choose to ignore EVERYTHING though and go with "let's just throw all weapons in the sea and have a picnic".
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
This was the closest way we've ever seen a real break through to a long lasting peace process.
You're solution is basically, make demands - which won't come to fruition, then when they fail, it's ok to continue with violence in response - which will in turn, cause your side to be the victim of more violence... see where I'm going with this? It doesn't end.
It's not "make demands." My solution is the solution of the entire world, except for Israel and the U.S., which is to move back to the 67 borders, which still gives Israel the MAJORITY of Palestinian land... Like I said, Israel should be happy enough to comply with that. If the Israelis want to continue their illegal occupation of Palestine, then how can they be angry that the Palestinians retaliate?
the palestinians should lay down while all their land is taken from them
that' the solution
If only they knew this was the solution....
so simple...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
the palestinians should lay down while all their land is taken from them
that' the solution
If only they knew this was the solution....
so simple...
exactly... why can't the Palestinians just be content about barely living the world's largest prison? They should just shut the fuck up and have happy picnics where they eat pieces of rice, instead of retaliating to the Israeli occupation. :rolleyes:
Some of you just don't get this concept. You continue to expect demands of the other half, and that they should comply simply because you feel it to be just - which is secondary to realityand more arbitrary than anything. It doesn't matter who started anymore. We're in round 15 of a boxing fight and the more punches each boxer throws, the more they'll get in return. To create a peace, don't throw any more punches. Doesn't matter if your the victim or the antagonist in the situation. That's how you'll see results.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Some of you just don't get this concept. You continue to expect demands of the other half, and that they should comply simply because you feel it to be just - which is secondary to realityand more arbitrary than anything. It doesn't matter who started anymore. We're in round 15 of a boxing fight and the more punches each boxer throws, the more they'll get in return. To create a peace, don't throw any more punches. Doesn't matter if your the victim or the antagonist in the situation. That's how you'll see results.
Just stop stealing land...perhaps even give some back.
voila.
What problems are you still having with that scenario?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
exactly... why can't the Palestinians just be content about barely living the world's largest prison? They should just shut the fuck up and have happy picnics where they eat pieces of rice, instead of retaliating to the Israeli occupation. :rolleyes:
Prison's have TV, electricity, food, medicine, clean clothes, and clean beds.
I would think concentration camp is a better term.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Father driving a car. Two children in the back. One hits the other, other returns in kind. They begin hitting each other more frequently, father steps in and says... both of you cut it out. One child reponds, but he started it, the other child says - no he did. Father's response, both of you knock it off.
Just stop stealing land...perhaps even give some back.
voila.
What problems are you still having with that scenario?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Father driving a car. Two children in the back. One hits the other, other returns in kind. They begin hitting each other more frequently, father steps in and says... both of you cut it out. One child reponds, but he started it, the other child says - no he did. Father's response, both of you knock it off.
Case closed.
That's nice and all...but you see they are stealing land by violently displacing people.
as in STILL...to this very day.
You understand that right?
Do you think they are stealing land because the Palestinians aren't obeying their demands in the first place?
that would be pretty wild to put it politely
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You're very adament in your opinion but have yet to offer a solution except one that places sole responsibility on Israel. Whether you feel it is justified or not, doesn't matter. Both sides need to make adjustments inorder to create a peace.
That's nice and all...but you see they are stealing land by violently displacing people.
as in STILL...to this very day.
You understand that right?
Do you think they are stealing land because the Palestinians aren't obeying their demands in the first place?
that would be pretty wild to put it politely
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You're very adament in your opinion but have yet to offer a solution except one that places sole responsibility on Israel. Whether you feel it is justified or not, doesn't matter. Both sides need to make adjustments inorder to create a peace.
Ok then tell me what land the Palestinians are stealing from the Israeli's. Without land...no place to live...no food...no life....no future.
I'm not seeing the 50/50 blame game picture you're trying to paint between these two peoples.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Some of you just don't get this concept. You continue to expect demands of the other half, and that they should comply simply because you feel it to be just - which is secondary to realityand more arbitrary than anything. It doesn't matter who started anymore. We're in round 15 of a boxing fight and the more punches each boxer throws, the more they'll get in return. To create a peace, don't throw any more punches. Doesn't matter if your the victim or the antagonist in the situation. That's how you'll see results.
Ok then tell me what land the Palestinians are stealing from the Israeli's. Without land...no place to live...no food...no life....no future.
I'm not seeing the 50/50 blame game picture you're trying to paint between these two peoples.
And no one sees why you persist in denying that both sides will need to make concessions in order to produce a lasting peace. The issue of who is right and who is wrong is now immaterial. What is more important, an end to the violence (not to mention a Palestinian state), or you being right?
Some of you just don't get this concept. You continue to expect demands of the other half, and that they should comply simply because you feel it to be just - which is secondary to realityand more arbitrary than anything. It doesn't matter who started anymore. We're in round 15 of a boxing fight and the more punches each boxer throws, the more they'll get in return. To create a peace, don't throw any more punches. Doesn't matter if your the victim or the antagonist in the situation. That's how you'll see results.
Ok, let's use this ridiculous analogy.
Do you know what happens when one boxer stops punching? The other one continues to punch UNTIL THE PERSON IS KNOCKED OUT.
Father driving a car. Two children in the back. One hits the other, other returns in kind. They begin hitting each other more frequently, father steps in and says... both of you cut it out. One child reponds, but he started it, the other child says - no he did. Father's response, both of you knock it off.
Case closed.
Let's compare one of the biggest world conflicts to two kids fighting in the back seat. That makes sense.
Comments
uhh...yeah but they should protest more...
but you get shot at, harassed, arrested and, beat up all the time for having an opinion.
uhhh......uhhh....uh.....So???!!?!
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
What?!?!
oh no...that could never be the case...
They're TERRORISTS!!!! the TV said so!
Bush even said so before telling the truth about Iraq....oh wait Iraq was actually lie...
no matter....the TV said so...and that's all the matters...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
what? is this serious? I'm sorry, but it's not so simple as you try to make it. Earlier you talked about being REALISTIC, but telling the Israelis to stop the violence won't work.
As for the Palestinians, I've said time and time again, they do MANY non-violent protests and demonstrations, but the Israelis still respond with violent tactics. For some reason, you choose to ignore EVERYTHING though and go with "let's just throw all weapons in the sea and have a picnic".
Give me your address... I'm taking your house.. you can live in the ditch across the street.
If you get angry and violent expect it back.
Sounds cool to me.
edit: better yet..... I'm taking your neighbors house too, and if he gets angry or violent...it's your problem also. I'll just mobilize my 4th largest military in the world to answer your unjust concerns
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Spewing hate...problem solved?
You're solution is basically, make demands - which won't come to fruition, then when they fail, it's ok to continue with violence in response - which will in turn, cause your side to be the victim of more violence... see where I'm going with this? It doesn't end.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You clearly have no comprehension of Violence begets Violence...no mater which way you do it, you still end in violence.
So, you speak 1/2 truth.
that' the solution
If only they knew this was the solution....
so simple...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
How can the Palestinians CAUSE Israeli violence, if the Israelis are already using violence BEFORE the Palestinians even attack them??
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Just stop stealing land...perhaps even give some back.
voila.
What problems are you still having with that scenario?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Prison's have TV, electricity, food, medicine, clean clothes, and clean beds.
I would think concentration camp is a better term.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Case closed.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
That's nice and all...but you see they are stealing land by violently displacing people.
as in STILL...to this very day.
You understand that right?
Do you think they are stealing land because the Palestinians aren't obeying their demands in the first place?
that would be pretty wild to put it politely
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Ok then tell me what land the Palestinians are stealing from the Israeli's. Without land...no place to live...no food...no life....no future.
I'm not seeing the 50/50 blame game picture you're trying to paint between these two peoples.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
(blog from a young mother in Gaza).
http://a-mother-from-gaza.blogspot.com/2008/06/pain-at-pump-think-of-gaza.html
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Bingo.
And no one sees why you persist in denying that both sides will need to make concessions in order to produce a lasting peace. The issue of who is right and who is wrong is now immaterial. What is more important, an end to the violence (not to mention a Palestinian state), or you being right?
Do you know what happens when one boxer stops punching? The other one continues to punch UNTIL THE PERSON IS KNOCKED OUT.