Obama: Bush Senior “did an excellent job when it came to the Gulf War"

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  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    my2hands wrote:
    Boom? what boom? gaspar? kaboom? what boom are you refering to


    anything else?


    We must be talking about different Iraq's. The Iraq I read about in the news got the sand bombed out of it...

    The middle east Iraq....you know...Saddam Hussein...arabs... etc...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    my2hands wrote:
    yeah, it was formed in the late 90's during the clinton years... well after the 1st Gulf war


    Yeah the people who made it, pulled the idea out of thin air... last minute...

    there was never war before that to plant seeds...

    Iran/Iraq war....hmm
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    We must be talking about different Iraq's. The Iraq read about in the news got the sand bombed out of it...

    The middle east Iraq....you know...Saddam Hussein...arabs... etc...

    how does america gain from that in 1991?


    i will ask again... and give you pleanty of time to scour the internet for your answers...

    what did america stand to gain from "playing" Saddam into invading Kuwait?
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    SO, AS I ASKED A LITTLE EARLIER, WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST GULF WAR? FORGET THE CONSPIRACY THAT AMERICAN TRICKD THEM INTO INVADING KUWAIT FOR A SECOND... WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AMERICA'S ROLE IN IT? THANK YOU
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    i will come back in a few hours for your answers... that should give you pleanty of time to scour the internet for your answers.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Man you just don't get it...

    What do "they" have to gain?

    holy fuck man look around...pick up a newspaper sometime
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    my2hands wrote:
    i will come back in a few hours for your answers... that should give you pleanty of time to scour the internet for your answers.

    no need... your questions are already answered but you can't seem to absorb the words for some reason.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Someone hasn't been paying attention pattern wise as to what has been going re: military intervention over the the past 30 years.

    Create a party then invite yourself.

    It a war of terror my friend...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Man you just don't get it...

    What do "they" have to gain?

    holy fuck man look around...pick up a newspaper sometime


    um, what did they gain from the 1st gulf war? they didnt take the country? they didnt topple saddam? if that was the plan they would have done it? if saddam was such a puppet to be "played" then why even take him out? why "play" him if he is our opec oil puppet? we stood nothing to gain from the first gulf war and we gained nothing from the first gulf war. Iraq invaded a peaceful neighbor with a massive armed force. and if unchecked he would have taken saudi arbaia in a fucking week. you can sit back and say "peace man" all you want. the fact of the matter was something had to be done,. that is why the UN overwhelmingly approved of the action, it was a UN coalition force that did the job, lead by the americans. the world overwhelmingly approved of it as well. The Kuwaiti people and the saudi people sure as shit didnt mind the world hopping in to save their ass.

    your conspiracy is horsehit and you cannot even defend it.

    one day you will realize not everything in the world is a conspiracy...

    there are bad people and bad moments in the world, you can either sit on the sideline or you can do the right thing

    also, i think you are failing to separate the 1st Gulf war with the current illgal and immoral iraq war...


    most of the time war is immoral, sometimes a lack of going to war is immoral
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Someone hasn't been paying attention pattern wise as to what has been going re: military intervention over the the past 30 years.

    Create a party then invite yourself.

    It a war of terror my friend...


    oh, right...


    trick your "puppet" who you have total control over into invading a peaceful neighbor and threaten an entire region... so then you can fight them and push them back... so then you can put them on sanctions for over 10 years... then lose an election to clinton in 1992... so that 8 years later your son can become president... all the while you devise a plan to pull off a false flag attack of epic proprotions... just to invade iraq again and take out saddam 12 years after you were in a position to do it with the world probably willing to justify it then :rolleyes:

    if "they" are so all powerful and mighty and control everything... then why did Bush lose the 1992 election?

    you concpiracy guys really lack any real substance. i am sorry, but it is becoming a joke around here.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    my2hands wrote:
    oh, right...


    trick your "puppet" who you have total control over into invading a peaceful neighbor and threaten an entire region... so then you can fight them and push them back... so then you can put them on sanctions for over 10 years... then lose an election to clinton in 1992... so that 8 years later your son can become president... all the while you devise a plan to pull off a false flag attack of epic proprotions... just to invade iraq again and take out saddam 12 years after you were in a position to do it with the world probably willing to justify it then :rolleyes:

    if "they" are so all powerful and mighty and control everything... then why did Bush lose the 1992 election?

    you concpiracy guys really lack any real substance. i am sorry, but it is becoming a joke around here.

    LOL. This will probably make my2hands very uncomfortable, but I agree with him. Sometimes shit happens because bad decisions were made, not because everything is part of some grand scheme. And while it might make sense to try to tie some things together to explain events, other times it appears desperate and paranoid (like trying to tie Israel and columbine).
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    my2hands wrote:
    oh, right...


    trick your "puppet" who you have total control over into invading a peaceful neighbor and threaten an entire region... so then you can fight them and push them back... so then you can put them on sanctions for over 10 years... then lose an election to clinton in 1992... so that 8 years later your son can become president... all the while you devise a plan to pull off a false flag attack of epic proprotions... just to invade iraq again and take out saddam 12 years after you were in a position to do it with the world probably willing to justify it then :rolleyes:

    if "they" are so all powerful and mighty and control everything... then why did Bush lose the 1992 election?

    you concpiracy guys really lack any real substance. i am sorry, but it is becoming a joke around here.


    You don't see a systemic pattern of violence over the past 30 years in maintaining global dominance out of self interest.

    well then... I don't know what to tell you.

    keep raving on about conspiracy theories I suppose..

    and good luck in ever comprehending it.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    If memory serves me correct, agree with the war or not, the first gulf war was executed pretty damn good.. I'm not seeing how Obama's statement is incorrect..

    It was quick and to the point.

    Minimal casualties, atleast on our end.

    We didn't leave the country in chaos like it is now.

    We helped out Kuwait.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    You don't see a systemic pattern of violence over the past 30 years in maintaining global dominance out of self interest.

    well then... I don't know what to tell you.

    keep raving on about conspiracy theories I suppose..

    and good luck in ever comprehending it.



    riddle me this... if "Saddam was a pawn" then why trick him into invading an ally just to show our military might to "maintain global dominance out of self interest"... if he was our pawn, then why go through all of that. you already control him, thus iraq, and thus it's oil just like it had been for decades...

    what you are missing is that you are correct Sadaam was a pawn supported by the US government for years... but he got out of line. he stepped out of line and went for control of the entire Middle East. he wasnt tricked to invade Kuwait, we preferred to have him under control and taking orders. he made a move, and got burned. the human psyche is a strange thing my friend, there are plenty of terrible and ruthless power hungry leaders over the centuries to show us that, including my current president.

    So yes, america had to intervene for its self interests. stopping that invasion was in the WORLDS BEST INTERESTS, INCLIDING KUWAIT AND SAUDI ARABIA.


    and thanks, but i comprehend just fine. thank you.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    going back to your original post and the theme of your thread... i ask... for the 4th time


    WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST GULF WAR? FORGET THE CONSPIRACY THAT AMERICAN TRICKD THEM INTO INVADING KUWAIT FOR A SECOND... WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AMERICA'S ROLE IN IT? THANK YOU
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    my2hands wrote:
    going back to your original post and the theme of your thread... i ask... for the 4th time


    WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST GULF WAR? FORGET THE CONSPIRACY THAT AMERICAN TRICKD THEM INTO INVADING KUWAIT FOR A SECOND... WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AND WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AMERICA'S ROLE IN IT? THANK YOU

    I'm waiting for the lightbulbs to go off in your head. Give a man a fish v.s. teach him to fish.

    So it can be about oil now but not back then eh? hmm

    I think you are opinionated to the point that you somehow exclude logic in forming your conclusions.

    Whatever you do, don't watch any John Pilger documentaries anytime soon....your world will fall to pieces.

    It's a conspiracy! Alex jones! UFO's!

    lol...

    edit: This answer applies to all your questions btw...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    If memory serves me correct, agree with the war or not, the first gulf war was executed pretty damn good.. I'm not seeing how Obama's statement is incorrect..

    It was quick and to the point.

    Minimal casualties, atleast on our end.

    We didn't leave the country in chaos like it is now.

    We helped out Kuwait.


    No kidding. Look at the technologies involved....and it was fought in the desert.

    It was won by dumping hundreds of tons of nuclear waste on them. Nice little humanitarian disaster which is still unfolding. Just another 4 billion years to go on that scenario of genetic mutation , cancers etc...

    The whole circumstance has been propped up and ripped down from a single source serving it's interests in the area.

    Iraq was bombed back the stone age...into "compliance" one might say.

    Look at them now.

    cause.....effect.... it's all connected.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    handled well, sure. Slaughtering Iraqi soldiers as they fled Kuwait, great job. Some 200,000 were killed, the road from Kuwait to BAghdad renamed the highway of death. And do you remember those plows on the front of American tanks? They used those to bury Iraqi soldiers alive, simply firing a machine gun down the length of the tranch and filling it with dirt as they drove by. Very well handled, sure..

    Then there was this idea among Iraqi dissidents that they would have US support to topple Saddam. They were slaughtered, in one case literally in view of US troops.

    The loss of infrastructure had Iraqi kids playing in raw sewage, and the ensuing sanctions left millions dead. Sure, very well handled.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Commy wrote:
    handled well, sure. Slaughtering Iraqi soldiers as they fled Kuwait, great job. Some 200,000 were killed, the road from Kuwait to BAghdad renamed the highway of death. And do you remember those plows on the front of American tanks? They used those to bury Iraqi soldiers alive, simply firing a machine gun down the length of the tranch and filling it with dirt as they drove by. Very well handled, sure..

    Then there was this idea among Iraqi dissidents that they would have US support to topple Saddam. They were slaughtered, in one case literally in view of US troops.

    The loss of infrastructure had Iraqi kids playing in raw sewage, and the ensuing sanctions left millions dead. Sure, very well handled.

    a neccesary evil in this case... no one likes war, no one embraces it, definitely not me by any stretch... but on occasion a time does arise that some wicked things have to be dealt with, usually with wicked force and the horros of war...

    let us not forget who invaded who first in the First Gulf War... lets remember who actually did come to the aid of a smaller defenseless nation in it time of desperate need... Kuwait and Saudi Arabia would have been occupied and bombed out just like Iraq is now... we stepped in and stopped that from happening... was saddam a puppet of ours that we supprted militarily, no doubt. does that mean once the shit hits the fan and they move a few hundred thousand man army over the borders of Kuwait and threaten to take it by force we stand back and watch twiddling our thumbs?

    europe was laid to waste as well trying to defeat the aggression of a tyrant... could it have been avoided? i like to think so, in a better and more just world we are striving to become... but that doesnt change the reality of the situation when the panzers advanced through europe... you cant lay down in that situation... you have to stand up and fight, or get rolled over and crushed.

    there have been very few military actions in my countries history that i try to even attempt to justify to myself... the revolutionary war, the civil war, WW2, and the 1st Gulf War.

    the Gulf war is obviously of no comparison to the others i just listed. but i feel that it was justified in having a United Nations supported coalition of almost 40 countries and extremely favorable global support to come to the defense of helpless mostly peaceful neighbors that were being invaded for occupation.

    the UN voted and approved of the invasion after diplomacy and sanctions were not succesful in persuading Iraq to retreat from Kuwait. they had every opportunity to retreat back to iraq.

    this is also one of the reasons the "green light conspiracy" is bogus... if we gave saddam the green light to invade Kuwait saying we would turn our heads, in an effort to dupe him, then why wouldnt he pull the hell out once the UN Security Counsel voted to authoirize military action?

    Lets not forget the UN was developed for this very reason in response to the 2 great wars. The UN body was set up to have a united organisation with members of every country represented to handle situations such as this one. Thats why the UN security counsel approved of military action against Iraq after other efforts failed. How do you propose the WORLD (aka the UN) should have persuaded Saddam to withdrawl from Kuwait after diplomacy and sanctions failed? seriously?

    In that case the military was the last option, to be used against a dangerous and aggresive nation that had invaded a soveriegn nation. in mty world that equals justification.

    as far as the road of death thing. tragic beyond beleief. however, when you hop into a tank and cross into another country aggressively and without provocation, you understand that you could be killed and are risking your life. you are knowingly commiting an act of war which immediately puts your life at risk. tragic, yes... avoidable, yes... the horros of war, yes... so maybe the human race can learn as a whole from situations liek that over the years and in the coming years to move beyond war and move towards a more peaceful time. but until that happens there will be occasional threats that will have ti be dealt with BY THE WORLD
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    So it can be about oil now but not back then eh?

    let me say this again for you...

    we controlled saddam so we controlled the oil. fact. what dont you understand about that? you said he was a puppet for us, which is correct. so why bait him? we already owned him. we didnt bait him, he went for the prize. the world with UN approval stepped in militarily to kick him out. we left him in power.

    then when we baited him, why not take him out?



    you have not answered my question yet so let me make it even shorter and simpler....

    You wake up and Iraq has invaded Kuwait with a 150,000 man army. what do you do?

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