Bush takes anti-Iran push to Saudis

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Comments

  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
    LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    they hate us for lots of reasons. you're all right pretty much.

    why is that so difficult to understand?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    MrSmith wrote:
    they hate us for lots of reasons. you're all right pretty much.

    why is that so difficult to understand?

    its not. but people tend to only want to blame america. its kinda trendy nowadays I guess.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ok so did we deserve being attacked? is there a sect of extreme Islam that believes all non-believers should be killed? any particular reason why some riot in the streets when someone draws a cartoon of Mohammad?

    you say they dont hate us because of our freedoms but it would make sense for those extremist leaders too do exactly that. freedom would mean less power and control. those sheiks and dictators hate freedom.

    but their is some truth in what you say, expect you left out support for Israel. that is another reason why they hate us.

    no one deserves to die especially innocent civilians ... isn't america the country that burned dixie chicks cds cuz of a comment made at a rock concert? ...

    the hate us for our freedoms is just bs propaganda the global elite wants people to believe - they aren't gonna say - hey, look - we want to saddle this country with massive debt so they will forever be slaves to our economic goals ... they have to make up shit people will buy ...

    but you're right - the US unilateral support for israel is not thought of favourably amongst muslim nations ...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris wrote:
    no one deserves to die especially innocent civilians ... isn't america the country that burned dixie chicks cds cuz of a comment made at a rock concert? ...

    the hate us for our freedoms is just bs propaganda the global elite wants people to believe - they aren't gonna say - hey, look - we want to saddle this country with massive debt so they will forever be slaves to our economic goals ... they have to make up shit people will buy ...

    but you're right - the US unilateral support for israel is not thought of favourably amongst muslim nations ...

    see you still dont get it. extremist leaders do hate our freedoms. maybe not enough to attack us, but the hate is there.

    at least you arent blaming america. but you love those fun internet buzz words like "global elite". i mean what the fuck is that.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    jlew24asu wrote:
    see you still dont get it. extremist leaders do hate our freedoms. maybe not enough to attack us, but the hate is there.

    at least you arent blaming america. but you love those fun internet buzz words like "global elite". i mean what the fuck is that.

    agree to disagree

    maybe you should read up on it ... ever ask yourself why the US took out Mossadegh in Iran?, Roldos in Ecuador?, Allende in Chile?, Torrijos in Panama? ... all democratically elected leaders and then replaced them with right wing dictators??

    answer that question
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ok so did we deserve being attacked? is there a sect of extreme Islam that believes all non-believers should be killed? any particular reason why some riot in the streets when someone draws a cartoon of Mohammad?

    you say they dont hate us because of our freedoms but it would make sense for those extremist leaders too do exactly that. freedom would mean less power and control. those sheiks and dictators hate freedom.

    but their is some truth in what you say, expect you left out support for Israel. that is another reason why they hate us.
    ...
    Did Iraqis deserve to be attacked because we got attacked? We are not the good guys in white hats anymore. We have lowered our standards to theirs.
    ...
    And that 'Hate us because of our freedom' is a moronic sales pitch that only morons will buy into. You cannot seriously believe that Usama bin Laden hates our Bill of Rights more than our military troops stationed in his homeland.
    Shieks and dictators don't hate freedom... they crave power. People can be coerced into relinquishing their freedoms and civil liberties in exchange for many things. We, in the U.S., are willingly caving in on our own civil liberties because we are letting our fears take over. Shieks and dictators use religion... presidents and attorney generals use fear. They don't hate freedom... they just want to be the sole source of decision making.
    ...
    And yes... it would help our cause if we looked at Israel in a realistic light... instead of having our noses planted straight in their assholes. We'd be able to tell them when the things they are doing that are wrong... are WRONG.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Did Iraqis deserve to be attacked because we got attacked? We are not the good guys in white hats anymore. We have lowered our standards to theirs.
    no Iraq should not have been invaded.
    ...
    Cosmo wrote:
    And that 'Hate us because of our freedom' is a moronic sales pitch that only morons will buy into. You cannot seriously believe that Usama bin Laden hates our Bill of Rights more than our military troops stationed in his homeland.
    not so much bin laden himself. I'm talking about the ideology

    Cosmo wrote:
    Shieks and dictators don't hate freedom... they crave power. People can be coerced into relinquishing their freedoms and civil liberties in exchange for many things. We, in the U.S., are willingly caving in on our own civil liberties because we are letting our fears take over. Shieks and dictators use religion... presidents and attorney generals use fear. They don't hate freedom... they just want to be the sole source of decision making.
    that makes no sense. with freedom given to the people, they have no power.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ... that makes no sense. with freedom given to the people, they have no power.
    ...
    Okay then... who hates our freedom? And what freedoms do we have that they hate? A hatred so intense... that they are willing to die, crashing planes into us at work. What freedom do we possess that drives them to that extreme?
    It's NOT just their leaders who hate us... it's regular people. And they don't hate you or me personally... they hate us collectively because of things that our country does in our names.
    ...
    What doesn't make sense is people believing that they hate us because of... what?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • MrBrian
    MrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay then... who hates our freedom? And what freedoms do we have that they hate? A hatred so intense... that they are willing to die, crashing planes into us at work. What freedom do we possess that drives them to that extreme?
    It's NOT just their leaders who hate us... it's regular people. And they don't hate you or me personally... they hate us collectively because of things that our country does in our names.
    ...
    What doesn't make sense is people believing that they hate us because of... what?

    the avg ignorant american response to that question you ask would be--- they killed themselves to get virgins.
    ---

    Cosmo, it's so much easier than all that "foreign policy" stuff you keep talking about.
    ---
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    MrBrian wrote:
    the avg ignorant american response to that question you ask would be--- they killed themselves to get virgins.
    ---

    Cosmo, it's so much easier than all that "foreign policy" stuff you keep talking about.
    ---
    ...
    Yeah... I don't understand how come it is so hard to figure. All you have to do is imagine what it would be like if the shoe was on the other foot... the gun in the other hand... and what you would do.
    If... the U.S. was being influenced to change towards a more Fundamentalist Islamic ideology for 6 decades... having to fulfill all of the tennents of Islam... obey religious law... all that religious crap. Tell me that their way was the right way to my happiness. I'd rebel. And I'd probably try to figure out how to go over there and blow up that big square thing in Mecca they all walk around during Ramadan so they'd leave us to decide what we want. Or... I'd at least cheer when some other Americans go over there and blows it up.
    I wouldn't hate the Muslims for believing all that Islam stuff... I would hate them for coming all the way across the ocean and cramming that shit down my throat.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay then... who hates our freedom? And what freedoms do we have that they hate? A hatred so intense... that they are willing to die, crashing planes into us at work. What freedom do we possess that drives them to that extreme?
    It's NOT just their leaders who hate us... it's regular people. And they don't hate you or me personally... they hate us collectively because of things that our country does in our names.
    ...
    What doesn't make sense is people believing that they hate us because of... what?

    I'm not saying they hate our freedoms per say. they hate the "western" way of freedom and democracy. there is no religious tolerance, no freedom of speech, no freedom of expression. thats what these extremist leaders hate.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you say they dont hate us because of our freedoms but it would make sense for those extremist leaders too do exactly that. freedom would mean less power and control. those sheiks and dictators hate freedom.


    This is the most ego driven idea I have ever even heard come out of someone's mouth, are seen on a forum in this case.

    Are you that full of yourself that you believe another human being would actually kill themselves because your life is so great? And you really believe that?
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I'm not saying they hate our freedoms per say. they hate the "western" way of freedom and democracy. there is no religious tolerance, no freedom of speech, no freedom of expression. thats what these extremist leaders hate.
    ...
    I agree.
    So, the solution should seem simple... quit trying to make them conform to Western Ways. If they CHOOSE to live in their societies under western type democracies, instead of Islamic Religious law, then THEY should be the ones to decide that... not us. We need to QUIT trying to tell them our way is best.
    And it's not just extremist leaders. Many of their moderate religious and political leaders, (as well as average Joe's) believe we are a cesspool of decadence. And can you blame them? I mean, look at our worship of money... our pre-occupation of sex. And hell, even the religious ones here only go to church once a week.
    But, you know what? That's NOT their call to make. I like porn and sex and I don't give a fuck what any religious needle dick thinks about that. Just as I don't want THEM telling me how to live... I shouldn't be the one to tell them how to live. If they believe I'm going to Hell... fine... they should let me go to Hell. And if they want to adhere to religious tennents... I'm fine with that.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    I agree.
    So, the solution should seem simple... quit trying to make them conform to Western Ways. If they CHOOSE to live in their societies under western type democracies, instead of Islamic Religious law, then THEY should be the ones to decide that... not us. We need to QUIT trying to tell them our way is best.
    And it's not just extremist leaders. Many of their moderate religious and political leaders, (as well as average Joe's) believe we are a cesspool of decadence. And can you blame them? I mean, look at our worship of money... our pre-occupation of sex. And hell, even the religious ones here only go to church once a week.
    But, you know what? That's NOT their call to make. I like porn and sex and I don't give a fuck what any religious needle dick thinks about that. Just as I don't want THEM telling me how to live... I shouldn't be the one to tell them how to live. If they believe I'm going to Hell... fine... they should let me go to Hell. And if they want to adhere to religious tennents... I'm fine with that.

    I agree with this. but there still is that part inside me that says its morally wrong to not allow people to live in freedom. freedom is something that is very rare in the middle east.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I agree with this. but there still is that part inside me that says its morally wrong to not allow people to live in freedom. freedom is something that is very rare in the middle east.
    Freedom is rare in the United States man what are you talking about.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Commy wrote:
    This is the most ego driven idea I have ever even heard come out of someone's mouth, are seen on a forum in this case.

    Are you that full of yourself that you believe another human being would actually kill themselves because your life is so great? And you really believe that?

    no, in some cases, these religious extremists brainwash children and adults into believing "western way of life" is evil. and yes there are people willing to die.

    I agree with cosmo that our foreign policy has alot to do with why they feel this way. America is not innocent.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Commy wrote:
    Freedom is rare in the United States man what are you talking about.

    anwser me this.


    can I stand in the dead center of downtown chicago, or new york, or washington dc and do this??

    http://www.javno.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m01/x31130790993398898.jpg

    I think we all just saw when you lobby for freedom and democracy in pakistan right?
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    no, in some cases, these religious extremists brainwash children and adults into believing "western way of life" is evil. and yes there are people willing to die.

    I agree with cosmo that our foreign policy has alot to do with why they feel this way. America is not innocent.
    They are no more brainwashed than people in the United States...less so actually. If someone disagrees with gov't they can make them dissappear or torture them, which they do. Here dissidents are allowed a voice, and a stick won't work to silence them. So our opinions are controlled, since force is theoretically illegal.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    jlew24asu wrote:
    anwser me this.


    can I stand in the dead center of downtown chicago, or new york, or washington dc and do this??

    http://www.javno.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m01/x31130790993398898.jpg
    Not during the republican primaries or during the presidential elections when it matters most.
    I think we all just saw when you lobby for freedom and democracy in pakistan right?

    what now?
  • meme
    meme Posts: 4,695
    Commy wrote:
    Not during the republican primaries or during the presidential elections when it matters most.


    what now?

    And not anywhere close to the President. "free speech zone" anyone?
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.

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