Abook, I'm not questioning Congress authority to do this. I know it's possible. But how will anything get passed when we can't get a 2/3 majority to override a veto?
Abook, I'm not questioning Congress authority to do this. I know it's possible. But how will anything get passed when we can't get a 2/3 majority to override a veto?
I think we could if the leaders in congress stood up and pushed hard for it the way Kucinich has. He's been out there speaking to the public and to his fellow congress members about this issue and not just letting it slide and giving up. We have the support of the public and could get it done but the big dogs just aren't barking to get it done and I'm not sure why not....oh wait...yes, I am. I can't think of a more important thing to come together on and fight for. People are dying every single day, needlessly while we sit on our hands and that's a fucking CRIME!! I'm tired of hearing the bullshit excuses...especially when EVERYONE is now saying what a mistake it is to be there. Don't tell me how this is such a dumb fucking war to get votes and then keep funding it and not push to end this shit. If it's so dumb THEN BRING THEM HOME ALREADY! Not a year from now not, 18 months.....AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, which could have started today if they really wanted it to.(by which I mean, the planning phase and the end of funding the war and the start of funding the withdrawal)
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think we could if the leaders in congress stood up and pushed hard for it the way Kucinich has. He's been out there speaking to the public and to his fellow congress members about this issue and not just letting it slide and giving up. We have the support of the public and could get it done but the big dogs just aren't barking to get it done and I'm not sure why not....oh wait...yes, I am. I can't think of a more important thing to come together on and fight for. People are dying every single day, needlessly while we sit on our hands and that's a fucking CRIME!! I'm tired of hearing the bullshit excuses...especially when EVERYONE is now saying what a mistake it is to be there. Don't tell me how this is such a dumb fucking war to get votes and then keep funding it and not push to end this shit. If it's so dumb THEN BRING THEM HOME ALREADY! Not a year from now not, 18 months.....AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, which could have started today if they really wanted it to.(by which I mean, the planning phase and the end of funding the war and the start of funding the withdrawal)
excellent post! obama says he will bring the troops home, unless someone says al qaeda is there, then he will keep troops in iraq
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I think we could if the leaders in congress stood up and pushed hard for it the way Kucinich has. He's been out there speaking to the public and to his fellow congress members about this issue and not just letting it slide and giving up. We have the support of the public and could get it done but the big dogs just aren't barking to get it done and I'm not sure why not....oh wait...yes, I am. I can't think of a more important thing to come together on and fight for. People are dying every single day, needlessly while we sit on our hands and that's a fucking CRIME!! I'm tired of hearing the bullshit excuses...especially when EVERYONE is now saying what a mistake it is to be there. Don't tell me how this is such a dumb fucking war to get votes and then keep funding it and not push to end this shit. If it's so dumb THEN BRING THEM HOME ALREADY! Not a year from now not, 18 months.....AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, which could have started today if they really wanted it to.(by which I mean, the planning phase and the end of funding the war and the start of funding the withdrawal)
Excellent post, we all agree, or at least anyone who cares about living a better life. But our only chance at this right now is barack. Sorry, he is our only hope. We all want the same thing, if barack can't come through then you will have an army of followers. Jump on board.
Excellent post, we all agree, or at least anyone who cares about living a better life. But our only chance at this right now is barack. Sorry, he is our only hope. We all want the same thing, if barack can't come through then you will have an army of followers. Jump on board.
Sorry, I'm not jumping on board with another war funder...that would be voting in the problem and voting against everything I've been standing up against for so long. No matter who wins, I'm still going to be here bitching until they bring the troops home. You don't do that by voting to further extend the war.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Abook, I'm not questioning Congress authority to do this. I know it's possible. But how will anything get passed when we can't get a 2/3 majority to override a veto?
Vote em all out
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
for all ofy ou who say we can't pull the troops out i encourage you to watch and listen to this short clip. it debunks perfectly the notion the troops would be stranded w/o supplies or we would leave iraq high and dry
and before some of you cry about the dems not having 2/3 plz save me your weak ass argument, if they don't have the balls to ever take a stand how the hell are they gonna ever hope to get 2/3!?!? what would happen if the dems voted no? it would be blocked and things could get done!
the dems could hold out, while passing money for the troops, just not to prolong it as long as they do, and force bush's hand. they are not acting in the will of the ppl and to cut them slack on that is ridiculous
it is also criminal, almost 4,000 americans are dead, how many iraqis now??? how many injured americans and other soldiers???
grow a fuckin pair already
here is dennis kucinich's plan on leaving iraq, can anyone tell me the flaws in this that these so called progressives will not support?
and may i ask; what has obama actually done to bring the troops home and oppose this war other than call it a 'dumb war'???
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
exactly... it is a PLAN.. not a forced chaotic pullout because funding was cut...now Kucinich needs 65 members of senate to support it... which means getting at least 16 republicans on board...
he said this quite plainly... and i agree to a great extent
we have to leave as carefully as we recklessly got out... and that he would not cut off funds while 150,000 soldiers are in harms way and force a choatic and sloppy withdraw... and he has voted every time to include a timetable for withdraw...
the withdraw needs to be planned, not forced... there is a right way and a wrong way to do this... he prefers to do it the right way
face it folks, you cannot end the war until Bush or McCain are out of there... the president has veto power my friends, and he has used it, and they dont have 65 votes to beat it
exactly... it is a PLAN.. not a forced chaotic pullout because funding was cut...now Kucinich needs 65 members of senate to support it... which means getting at least 16 republicans on board...
i wonder why obama isn't pushing for it??? i mean it says it was submitted in 07, didn't it? a little over a year ago....
so back to my original question;
why isn't your 'progressive, anti-war' leaders like obama supporting it??
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
My biggest problem with it is its a bit reckless. We have an embassy there. We have diplomats there.
can you be a bit more specific as to what is reckless?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i wonder why obama isn't pushing for it??? i'll have to check again to see what committees he's on, i think i saw it was submitted to one he was on but not sure....i mean it says it was submitted in 07, didn't it? a little over a year ago....
so back to my original question;
why isn't your 'progressive, anti-war' leaders like obama supporting it??
Your question is, "Why isn't Barack Obama throwing our soldiers under the bus by cutting off the funding while they are over there?"
I guess it's morals. They are serving so pricks like you and I don't have to. They got put into a bad situation that they didn't deserve. Why throw them under the bus?
Your question is, "Why isn't Barack Obama throwing our soldiers under the bus by cutting off the funding while they are over there?"
I guess it's morals. They are serving so pricks like you and I don't have to. They got put into a bad situation that they didn't deserve. Why throw them under the bus?
There is money to fund a safe withdrawal and get our troops out of harms way. No one is forced to vote for billions more to go towards fighting this bullshit war. No ones hands were tied into giving Bush whatever he asks for and it's disgusting to use the troop's welfare as a rationalization when the longer they stay over there, more and more will continue to die or get their limbs blown off....and let's not even get into how the Iraqs and the fact that they also want us out. The only thing reckless thing I see here, is people justifying keeping our troops over there fighting a pointless war 4 full years after the american public caught on to how purposeless this war actually is and decided they wanted the troops home. Nothing is being accomplished but more death and destruction....5 years of it now! That's enough! There is nothing reckless about Dennis' plan except that it's not what Obama is saying and that he can't get those spineless Dems in DC to stand up along side him and demand an end to this now.
Fund a safe and proper withdrawal, STOP FUNDING THE WAR, put in UN peacekeeping troops and get the fuck out of there! If Bush and co won't go along get them out of office...this is a democracy not a dictatorship and the people want an end to this.
It's sad to see people's viewpoints mold to fit a politician's instead of their elected representatives stances molding to fit what their supporters want.
I could have sworn most of you have been calling for an immediate withdrawal before this whole Obama craze....oh well so long to all that.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
There is money to fund a safe withdrawal and get our troops out of harms way. No one is forced to vote for billions more to go towards fighting this bullshit war. No ones hands were tied into giving Bush whatever he asks for and it's disgusting to use the troop's welfare as a rationalization when the longer they stay over there, more and more will continue to die or get their limbs blown off....and let's not even get into how the Iraqs and the fact that they also want us out. The only thing reckless thing I see here, is people justifying keeping our troops over there fighting a pointless war 4 full years after the american public caught on to how purposeless this war actually is and decided they wanted the troops home. Nothing is being accomplished but more death and destruction....5 years of it now! That's enough! There is nothing reckless about Dennis' plan except that it's not what Obama is saying and that he can't get those spineless Dems in DC to stand up along side him and demand an end to this now.
Fund a safe and proper withdrawal, STOP FUNDING THE WAR, put in UN peacekeeping troops and get the fuck out of there! If Bush and co won't go along get them out of office...this is a democracy not a dictatorship and the people want an end to this.
It's sad to see people's viewpoints mold to fit a politician's instead of their elected representatives stances molding to fit what their supporters want.
I could have sworn most of you have been calling for an immediate withdrawal before this whole Obama craze....oh well so long to all that.
Obama wants the troops out just as bad as you and I. He knew he was running for president and a vote like the one funding the troops would kill him against the republicans. You know exactly how they would spin it and so does he. This war will end when Obama becomes president...quickly! It's the right he is duping, he is not worried about you and some other intelligent Americans. There are way more idiots that will fall for the propaganda of the war mongers on the right.
Obama wants the troops out just as bad as you and I. He knew he was running for president and a vote like the one funding the troops would kill him against the republicans. You know exactly how they would spin it and so does he. This war will end when Obama becomes president...quickly! It's the right he is duping, he is not worried about you and some other intelligent Americans. There are way more idiots that will fall for the propaganda of the war mongers on the right.
Oh...he's duping the republicans!
Meanwhile, Iraqis and our troops continue to die.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Oh ya, I forgot it was Obama's fault that all these people are dying over there?
Look, he's just trying to become president so that he can put a stop to this shit. Even if he had voted to stop the funding, those troops would still be there today. You know it and so do I.
Oh ya, I forgot it was Obama's fault that all these people are dying over there?
Look, he's just trying to become president so that he can put a stop to this shit. Even if he had voted to stop the funding, those troops would still be there today. You know it and so do I.
But at least he wouldn't have been a part of going along with.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Less...plus they want us out. People don't like foreign occupiers and usually want control of their country back.
Oh and welcome to the AMT, no longer a lurker, lazymoon13
well its just your opinion that less would die. its my opinion that more would. US troops are providing 100% of the security in many areas. take that security away and people will die.
I saw an ironic stat recently.
70% of Iraqis oppose our occupation. yet only 30% want us to leave. they dont want us there but they know they need us for a little while longer.
its hard to argue that progress has been made in recent months. it doesnt make much sense to me that we should throw that all away.
thanks I hope we can keep things civil. I notice people get pretty worked up around here.
well its just your opinion that less would die. its my opinion that more would. US troops are providing 100% of the security in many areas. take that security away and people will die.
I saw an ironic stat recently.
70% of Iraqis oppose our occupation. yet only 30% want us to leave. they dont want us there but they know they need us for a little while longer.
its hard to argue that progress has been made in recent months. it doesnt make much sense to me that we should throw that all away.
thanks I hope we can keep things civil. I notice people get pretty worked up around here.
yes, it my opinion less would die if US troops withdrawal and UN peacekeeping troops come in after us to provide security and aid to help further along the rebuilding process.
Yep, some people feel very strongly about many of the issues we discuss here but for the most pasrt we do keep it civil.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I could have sworn most of you have been calling for an immediate withdrawal before this whole Obama craze....oh well so long to all that.
i still call for an immediate withdrawl, which can be done if planned for and excecuted properly... neither of which will happen while the president has veto power, which he used... the dems put forward, and voted for withdrawl... the republican president veto'd it and the dems could not get enough republicans or lieberman to cross the aisle...
folks really need to ease up on thier Obama fixation
fucking cheney basicly said fuck the people the other day live in an interview... yet some people are now shifting thier glare and blame to the ones voting to end the war and the candidate opposed to it from jump street... it is beginning to feel like bizarro world to me... as if people forgot the fucking reason we are where we are :rolleyes:
yes, it my opinion less would die if US troops withdrawal and UN peacekeeping troops come in after us to provide security and aid to help further along the rebuilding process.
well you are going on the BIG assumption that the UN will do it.....and be successful at it.
I really don't think they would do either (go in after us and be successful)
Comments
......actually, who cares
Hillary will win the nomination, by any means necessary
PEARL JAM~San Antonio, TX. 4~5~03
INCUBUS~Houston, TX. 1~19~07
INCUBUS~Denver, CO. 2~8~07
Lollapalooza~Chicago, IL. 8~5~07
INCUBUS~Austin, TX. 9~3~07
Bonnaroo~Manchester, TN 6~14~08
I think we could if the leaders in congress stood up and pushed hard for it the way Kucinich has. He's been out there speaking to the public and to his fellow congress members about this issue and not just letting it slide and giving up. We have the support of the public and could get it done but the big dogs just aren't barking to get it done and I'm not sure why not....oh wait...yes, I am. I can't think of a more important thing to come together on and fight for. People are dying every single day, needlessly while we sit on our hands and that's a fucking CRIME!! I'm tired of hearing the bullshit excuses...especially when EVERYONE is now saying what a mistake it is to be there. Don't tell me how this is such a dumb fucking war to get votes and then keep funding it and not push to end this shit. If it's so dumb THEN BRING THEM HOME ALREADY! Not a year from now not, 18 months.....AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, which could have started today if they really wanted it to.(by which I mean, the planning phase and the end of funding the war and the start of funding the withdrawal)
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
excellent post! obama says he will bring the troops home, unless someone says al qaeda is there, then he will keep troops in iraq
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Now where have I heard that before? Hmmm. Let me see...I just can't place it...
Who's been saying this for the last 5 years?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Excellent post, we all agree, or at least anyone who cares about living a better life. But our only chance at this right now is barack. Sorry, he is our only hope. We all want the same thing, if barack can't come through then you will have an army of followers. Jump on board.
Sorry, I'm not jumping on board with another war funder...that would be voting in the problem and voting against everything I've been standing up against for so long. No matter who wins, I'm still going to be here bitching until they bring the troops home. You don't do that by voting to further extend the war.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Vote em all out
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wPXMJWM7aF0
and before some of you cry about the dems not having 2/3 plz save me your weak ass argument, if they don't have the balls to ever take a stand how the hell are they gonna ever hope to get 2/3!?!? what would happen if the dems voted no? it would be blocked and things could get done!
the dems could hold out, while passing money for the troops, just not to prolong it as long as they do, and force bush's hand. they are not acting in the will of the ppl and to cut them slack on that is ridiculous
it is also criminal, almost 4,000 americans are dead, how many iraqis now??? how many injured americans and other soldiers???
grow a fuckin pair already
here is dennis kucinich's plan on leaving iraq, can anyone tell me the flaws in this that these so called progressives will not support?
H.R. 1234: To end the United States occupation of Iraq immediately
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1234
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1234:
and may i ask; what has obama actually done to bring the troops home and oppose this war other than call it a 'dumb war'???
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
exactly... it is a PLAN.. not a forced chaotic pullout because funding was cut...now Kucinich needs 65 members of senate to support it... which means getting at least 16 republicans on board...
THAT WAS AGAINST THE WAR FROM DAY 1
this is the example of repeated brain washing...
Obama the savior
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:S433:
Unfortunately, it died in committee.
yeah, i am brainwashed :rolleyes:
i wonder why obama isn't pushing for it??? i mean it says it was submitted in 07, didn't it? a little over a year ago....
so back to my original question;
why isn't your 'progressive, anti-war' leaders like obama supporting it??
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
can you be a bit more specific as to what is reckless?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Your question is, "Why isn't Barack Obama throwing our soldiers under the bus by cutting off the funding while they are over there?"
I guess it's morals. They are serving so pricks like you and I don't have to. They got put into a bad situation that they didn't deserve. Why throw them under the bus?
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
There is money to fund a safe withdrawal and get our troops out of harms way. No one is forced to vote for billions more to go towards fighting this bullshit war. No ones hands were tied into giving Bush whatever he asks for and it's disgusting to use the troop's welfare as a rationalization when the longer they stay over there, more and more will continue to die or get their limbs blown off....and let's not even get into how the Iraqs and the fact that they also want us out. The only thing reckless thing I see here, is people justifying keeping our troops over there fighting a pointless war 4 full years after the american public caught on to how purposeless this war actually is and decided they wanted the troops home. Nothing is being accomplished but more death and destruction....5 years of it now! That's enough! There is nothing reckless about Dennis' plan except that it's not what Obama is saying and that he can't get those spineless Dems in DC to stand up along side him and demand an end to this now.
Fund a safe and proper withdrawal, STOP FUNDING THE WAR, put in UN peacekeeping troops and get the fuck out of there! If Bush and co won't go along get them out of office...this is a democracy not a dictatorship and the people want an end to this.
It's sad to see people's viewpoints mold to fit a politician's instead of their elected representatives stances molding to fit what their supporters want.
I could have sworn most of you have been calling for an immediate withdrawal before this whole Obama craze....oh well so long to all that.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Obama wants the troops out just as bad as you and I. He knew he was running for president and a vote like the one funding the troops would kill him against the republicans. You know exactly how they would spin it and so does he. This war will end when Obama becomes president...quickly! It's the right he is duping, he is not worried about you and some other intelligent Americans. There are way more idiots that will fall for the propaganda of the war mongers on the right.
Oh...he's duping the republicans!
Meanwhile, Iraqis and our troops continue to die.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Oh ya, I forgot it was Obama's fault that all these people are dying over there?
Look, he's just trying to become president so that he can put a stop to this shit. Even if he had voted to stop the funding, those troops would still be there today. You know it and so do I.
But at least he wouldn't have been a part of going along with.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I've been lurkin around for awhile and thought I'd post......:)
did you ever think about how many innocent iraqis might die if we pulled all of our troops out today?
Less...plus they want us out. People don't like foreign occupiers and usually want control of their country back.
Oh and welcome to the AMT, no longer a lurker, lazymoon13
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
well its just your opinion that less would die. its my opinion that more would. US troops are providing 100% of the security in many areas. take that security away and people will die.
I saw an ironic stat recently.
70% of Iraqis oppose our occupation. yet only 30% want us to leave. they dont want us there but they know they need us for a little while longer.
its hard to argue that progress has been made in recent months. it doesnt make much sense to me that we should throw that all away.
thanks
yes, it my opinion less would die if US troops withdrawal and UN peacekeeping troops come in after us to provide security and aid to help further along the rebuilding process.
Yep, some people feel very strongly about many of the issues we discuss here but for the most pasrt we do keep it civil.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i still call for an immediate withdrawl, which can be done if planned for and excecuted properly... neither of which will happen while the president has veto power, which he used... the dems put forward, and voted for withdrawl... the republican president veto'd it and the dems could not get enough republicans or lieberman to cross the aisle...
folks really need to ease up on thier Obama fixation
fucking cheney basicly said fuck the people the other day live in an interview... yet some people are now shifting thier glare and blame to the ones voting to end the war and the candidate opposed to it from jump street... it is beginning to feel like bizarro world to me... as if people forgot the fucking reason we are where we are :rolleyes:
speak for yourself redneck
well you are going on the BIG assumption that the UN will do it.....and be successful at it.
I really don't think they would do either (go in after us and be successful)