Why is Iran's nuclear energy program Ilegal...

fuck

rocketman wrote:

Because they have so much fucking oil they dont NEED nuclear power.

do you know anything about the economy right now?

Sludge Factory

my2hands wrote:

i know all about it... again, have we invaded and laid the country to waste? our meddling with the Iran govt 50 years ago and installing a puppet regime has what to do with them obtaining nuclear weapons? not to mention puppet regimes and colonial control of countries was quite the Zeitgeist of the era and not unusual... that does not excuse it, just sayin

Just wanted to point out that you first asked if we ever attacked Iran and then changed it to "invaded and laid waste" to the country. Well, we certainly haven't done the latter, but many people would consider the meddling of their government by a foreign entity to be an attack of sorts. So in a sense, I'd have to say Roland's answer was somewhat of an actual answer to your original question on whether or not we "attacked" Iran.

raszputini

Hey folks,....... I ran has no nuclear weapons. According to the IAEA, they haven't tried to either. They have uranium enrichment for civilian reactors, and we want to frame the controversy as if they are being sneaky and developing nuclear weapons. Nowhere does the IAEA say or even suggest that - that is simply Bush talking.

fuck

raszputini wrote:

Hey folks,....... I ran has no nuclear weapons. According to the IAEA, they haven't tried to either. They have uranium enrichment for civilian reactors, and we want to frame the controversy as if they are being sneaky and developing nuclear weapons. Nowhere does the IAEA say or even suggest that - that is simply Bush talking.

And Barack.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

my2hands wrote:

serriously... what did/do you think of it? The Israeli strike against Iraq's Nuclear reactor

i tell you right now i have/had no problem with it at all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

So you agree with the neo-con doctrine of pre-emptive war?

You think that is a solution?

yikes...

Israel is just a plain fucking mess....

Walking talking Nazi's tying to suck your country into a war with Iran.

and you want to go?

rocketman

Why cant you keep your obvious bigotry to yourself and leave this board for intelligent political discussions. Surely there is a skinhead meeting you can go to no?

Nevermind

rocketman wrote:

Why cant you keep your obvious bigotry to yourself and leave this board for intelligent political discussions. Surely there is a skinhead meeting you can go to no?

You can always block him. Then you wouldnt have to read his racist posts.

my2hands

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

So you agree with the neo-con doctrine of pre-emptive war?

You think that is a solution?

yikes...

Israel is just a plain fucking mess....

Walking talking Nazi's tying to suck your country into a war with Iran.

and you want to go?

i see you didnt want to answer the simple question... so in typical fashion you answered a question with a question

RolandTD20Kdrummer

my2hands wrote:

i see you didnt want to answer the simple question... so in typical fashion you answered a question with a question

I did answer it. It's right on front of your face. the answer is as clear as it gets.

my2hands

you're the man roland...


see you around on youtube good buddy

fuck

my2hands wrote:

i see you didnt want to answer the simple question...

I'm sure you can relate.

DriftingByTheStorm

_outlaw wrote:

since you seem to love to ask questions, here is one for you:

If Iraq were to have done a pre-emptive strike on Israel's nuclear program, would you have a problem with that?

STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER, My2HANDS

I answered your question about Operation Opera IN PLAIN ENGLISH in that other thread,
and you didn't say bumpkiss in response.
You actually asked me a question, and ignored my response.

And i've now seen you dodge this question, and a bumped challenge to it FOUR TIMES.

That is FOUR times you have failed to provide an answer.

Why?
If we are talking about spirit of the law, and not simply "picking sides" (which everyone is accusing Roland of doing, you know, he must hate jews -- and being jewish, i'm not too stupid to understand that he doesn't hate me, sheesh) ...

if we're talking spirit of the law,
you should be able to answer this question.

What would you think if Iraq (or Iran) had made preemptive strikes on ISRAEL'S CLEARLY ILLEGAL NUCLEAR PROGRAM?

:sigh:

my2hands

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

What would you think if Iraq (or Iran) had made preemptive strikes on ISRAEL'S CLEARLY ILLEGAL NUCLEAR PROGRAM?

:sigh:

i would be against it.

Maybe you dont see a difference between the regions ONLY democracy, and a tyranical dictatorship that committed unprovoked aggression in invading 2 of its neighbors within 1 decade, Iran and Kuwait. But i see a difference.

and now you can spout off a bunch of bs about Israel trying to paint them as the almighty evil influence in the world... and you can also try to post revionist history of the Israel and the conflicts she has been invloved in attempting to paint them as the aggressor in the region... lets just say your playbook is pretty predictable, and innacurate

Rhinocerous Surprise

my2hands wrote:

i would be against it.

Maybe you dont see a difference between the regions ONLY democracy, and a tyranical dictatorship that committed unprovoked aggression in invading 2 of its neighbors within 1 decade, Iran and Kuwait. But i see a difference.

and now you can spout off a bunch of bs about Israel trying to paint them as the almighty evil influence in the world... and you can also try to post revionist history of the Israel and the conflicts she has been invloved in attempting to paint them as the aggressor in the region... lets just say your playbook is pretty predictable, and innacurate

I suppose it's irrelevant that Israel are also the country illegally occupying Palestine and making life hell for it's citizens, and threatening Iran with unprovoked attacks. But hey, as long as they're your allies in democracy, they can do no wrong, eh?

Sludge Factory

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I suppose it's irrelevant that Israel are also the country illegally occupying Palestine and making life hell for it's citizens, and threatening Iran with unprovoked attacks. But hey, as long as they're your allies in democracy, they can do no wrong, eh?

Not to mention the fact that a democracy was supporting this Iraqi tyrant in it's incursion against Iran.

my2hands

Sludge Factory wrote:

Not to mention the fact that a democracy was supporting this Iraqi tyrant in it's incursion against Iran.

a democracy was supporting both sides in that conflict... which obviously i dont support

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_Affair

my2hands

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I suppose it's irrelevant that Israel are also the country illegally occupying Palestine and making life hell for it's citizens, and threatening Iran with unprovoked attacks. But hey, as long as they're your allies in democracy, they can do no wrong, eh?

i didnt excuse any occupation or threats towards Iran... but i also acknowledge the Iranian leaderships thoughts about Israel and its continued threats towards Israel the last few decades... do you guys just completely ignore the fact that a large portion of the Arab world hates Israel and would cheer at it's destruction? simply based on religous beleiefs and teachings... i guess you guys will contnue to ignore that.. and ignore all of the times Israel has been attacked by multiple arab nations, even on Israels holiest day

i try and see both sides, as it seems most around here just want to focus on the evils of Israel and excuse the behavior of oppresive Arab theocracy's, dictatorships, and monarchies :rolleyes:

BTW... sorta off subject but not really... If you are a female... i think it is pretty safe to say that if you had to chooose a place to live in the middle east and the arab world you would choose Israel. Unless of course you like wearing a burka and having no rights...


I am not saying you use the military option to stop Iran or any other country from obtaining nuclear weapon technology, but the spread of nuclear wepons must be stopped, and there clearly are some regimes on this planet that CANNOT come into possesion of nuclear weapons. It is bad enough they have been devoloped in the first place, now we have to make sure it doesnt get worse or more unstable.

Could youy imagine a nuclear armed Saddam Hussein? Israel would be gone, and you know it.

I didnt see anyone on here crying when Israel hit Syria's facility recently? I didnt hear Syria say a peep? Maybe it was becasue it was an illegal weapons development facolity? Did that start WW3?

fuck

my2hands wrote:

i would be against it.

yes!! that's what I wanted to hear.

Maybe you dont see a difference between the regions ONLY democracy, and a tyranical dictatorship that committed unprovoked aggression in invading 2 of its neighbors within 1 decade, Iran and Kuwait. But i see a difference.

hahahaha, apparently having "democracy" written in your history books means that it's ok to have nuclear weapons.

and now you can spout off a bunch of bs about Israel trying to paint them as the almighty evil influence in the world... and you can also try to post revionist history of the Israel and the conflicts she has been invloved in attempting to paint them as the aggressor in the region... lets just say your playbook is pretty predictable, and innacurate

yeah, it is inaccurate that Israel is forcing a brutal occupation onto Palestine, occupied Lebanon and went to war with them several times, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc... but of course all this is untrue because Israel had to just "defend" itself.

I just want to take this opportunity to thank you, my2hands, for your post because it really showed hypocrisy.

fuck

my2hands wrote:

i didnt excuse any occupation or threats towards Iran...

yeah you did.

but i also acknowledge the Iranian leaderships thoughts about Israel and its continued threats towards Israel the last few decades...

which threats are you talking about? the ones that don't exist and we're made up by the media? oh yeah, those threats.

do you guys just completely ignore the fact that a large portion of the Arab world hates Israel and would cheer at it's destruction?

define: destruction in that context. do you mean 'destruction' as in the destruction of the occupation? 'destruction' as in an end to the oppression of Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc?? yeah, who the fuck wouldn't cheer for that? if you mean the Arab world would like to see every Israeli pushed into the sea and drown, then you are clearly riding the media train.

simply based on religous beleiefs and teachings...

religious beliefs? mind elaborating?

i guess you guys will contnue to ignore that.. and ignore all of the times Israel has been attacked by multiple arab nations, even on Israels holiest day

I guess you will continue to ignore the fact that Israel started many wars, including the war in 1967. the attack on Israel's holiest days was to recover land stolen and occupied. If you think that Arabs should wait one day while the Israelis pray to God (probably praying to preserve their occupied land), then you're delusional.

i try and see both sides

no you don't. you focus on bullshit facts and lies. you don't mention Israel's occupation, you focus on retarded ideas and excuse Israel's nuclear program.

as it seems most around here just want to focus on the evils of Israel and excuse the behavior of oppresive Arab theocracy's, dictatorships, and monarchies :rolleyes:

clearly you have no problem that Israel is, and always was, in more violations of human rights laws, war crimes, etc, than Iraq ever was or will be.

BTW... sorta off subject but not really... If you are a female... i think it is pretty safe to say that if you had to chooose a place to live in the middle east and the arab world you would choose Israel. Unless of course you like wearing a burka and having no rights...

oh, there are plenty of oppressive laws in Israel, including one that does not allow Jews to marry Arabs.

I am not saying you use the military option to stop Iran or any other country from obtaining nuclear weapon technology, but the spread of nuclear wepons must be stopped, and there clearly are some regimes on this planet that CANNOT come into possesion of nuclear weapons. It is bad enough they have been devoloped in the first place, now we have to make sure it doesnt get worse or more unstable.

but you excuse the fact that Israel ALREADY has nuclear weapons - Israel, which is a Zionist regime that is currently in violation of over 60 UN resolutions, the Geneva Convention, has nuclear weapons, is in violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and so many more things, but you want to focus on Iran? who actually SIGNED the NPT? who actually is abiding by the rules?

Could youy imagine a nuclear armed Saddam Hussein? Israel would be gone, and you know it.

so that makes it ok for Israel to have nuclear weapons?

I didnt see anyone on here crying when Israel hit Syria's facility recently? I didnt hear Syria say a peep? Maybe it was becasue it was an illegal weapons development facolity? Did that start WW3?

so you think Israel has the right to strike Iran's LEGAL nuclear facilities? you think it wouldn't start an actual war? do you not see the fact that Iran will actually be striking BACK? that they said "if Israel or the U.S. attacks us, we will fight back"??

do you not think it's a bit hypocritical that Israel, who illegally has nuclear weapons, wants to stop Iran from a peaceful nuclear program? do you not think it's wrong that even though Iran is following all the rules, they should be bombed, but you don't agree with Israel being stopped from obtaining nuclear weapons?

raszputini

If Israel launched a preemptive strike against Iran's (at present) COMPLETELY civilian nuclear energy program, it would be an unjustifiable first strike and act of war, and the international community SHOULD mandate punishment and/or reprisals against Israel, and go as far as even DEFEND Iran.

That's not what would happen, of course. Even though the IAEA has inspected the hell out of Iran's program on countless occassions and found no wrong-doing, the "nuclear club" hates the idea of them having the technology. Even though they are a member of the NPT and have been transparent with the program.

Israel has maintained being a useful ally to us, and for that reason I don't have a problem maintaining a good relationship with them. We should use that relationship to try and leverage better human rights and less aggressiveness towards their neighbors. But before we start blindly supporting them because Israel was "God's Country" 2000 years ago, we need to remember what modern-day Israel is.

In 1910, there were 500,000+ Palestinians in Palestine, around 60,000 Jews. But because of a huge and in many ways financially powerful diaspora of Jews, particularly in the US and UK - the area of land now known as Israel was "given" to them by Britain and the US in return for financial support in WWI, even though it wasn't theirs to give.. Jewish settlements began to increase under British colonialism, these Jews were, for the most part RUSSIAN - most of which were not religious or Zionist, most didn't even speak Hebrew. England wanted to continue stocking the area with Jews in hopes they'd become the majority, Russia had a large Jewish population. At the conclusion of WWII, the US and UK, along with Stalin (who wanted Jews to leave Russia anyway) - established the Zionist State of Israel. They did this even though the Arabs had fought alongside them to expell first the Ottoman Empire in WWI, then the Nazis in WWII. The Arabs did this thinking they were helping us defend their country. The British had promised them it to THEM for revolting against the Ottomans in Turkey, then we completely betrayed them by allowing a Minority government based around differing religious beliefs to establish a government heavily based on that religion. That sellout began with the Balfour Declaration and continued when we backed the armed seizure of that land.

Regardless of your faith, it is a FACT that we STOLE the area of land known as Israel from the Palestinians and gave it to the Jewish community so they could establish a homeland, in return for supporting us primarily in WWI (Congressional Record, April 25, 1939, pages 6597-6604). It was settled by Jews who had no connection whatsoever with Palestine and taken from the people who did. No joke, prior to that Balfour had tried to appease the Jewish lobby by giving them Madagascar and then Uganda, both of which they rejected.

Now all this happened between 60 and 100 years ago, lots has changed. But before we blindly back every move Israel makes as if they are the perpetual victims, we need to remember that the entire nation of Israel was built from usurpation. Modern-day Israel has been one of the most aggressive nations in the world (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51a/index-k.html)
and has been a chronic human rights violator.