Kids getting fingerprinted every day at schools now? wtf?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

http://education.independent.co.uk/news/article2434942.ece

"Almost six million children at 17,000 schools could have their fingerprints taken, intensifying fears of the growth of a "surveillance society" where personal information is gathered from cradle to grave.

As soaring numbers of schools require pupils to have biometric checks to register in the morning, buy canteen food or borrow a book, it emerged that less than one-quarter of local education authorities have banned collecting fingerprints.

The rest either allow it or have no policy on the issue, potentially enabling headteachers to gather biometric data from about 5.9 million English schoolchildren as young as four without telling their parents."

more:
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.leavethemkidsalone.com/images/fingerprint.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.leavethemkidsalone.com/guidance.htm&h=384&w=371&sz=72&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=T9dcfFcdOSN8lM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dschools%2Bfingerprinting%2Bchildren%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

Juberoo

This is big here where I live too. They do this for lunch and library...and some schools use it for busing as well. I personally have no problem with it. So they have my kids ONE fingerprint. Big deal.

catefrances

as people have said in response to me twice today...wow.


what's next? room 101

Drowned Out

catefrances wrote:

as people have said in response to me twice today...wow.


what's next? room 101

we are living the orwellian nightmare more than most would like to accept.

I don't understand the justification for the fingerprinting....
edit: oh, here it is - "Tony Blair has said he wants all youngsters monitored for signs of criminality." well that makes perfect snese....WTF is going on, and why is the UK always on the forefront of this big brother shit?

how these policies continue to be unrolled is pretty interesting to watch...

Collin

Posted this in another thread, I might as well post it here too:

"This is a world getting progressively worse. Can we not agree on that?"

gue_barium

I don't see any good reason for it.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Juberoo wrote:

This is big here where I live too. They do this for lunch and library...and some schools use it for busing as well. I personally have no problem with it. So they have my kids ONE fingerprint. Big deal.

Big deal?

I never needed to get fingerprinted multiple times a day as a kid in school...did you? You think kids do now for some particular reason? Legitimately?

I hope not.

Collin

1984 here we come.

mookie9999

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I never needed to get fingerprinted multiple times a day as a kid in school...did you? You think kids do now for some particular reason? Legitimately?

Where does it say that the kids are getting fingerprinted multiple times a day? It states that they are scanned for attendance and to check out books. Is this invasive, or just a technological advancement of what schools have been doing forever (roll call, lbrary check out, grades, etc.) What type of information are they going to derive from these younsters that could be so damning? Johhny Smith checked out Harry Potter three weeks in a row, That little bastard must be a wizard in training!

Collin

mookie9999 wrote:

Where does it say that the kids are getting fingerprinted multiple times a day? It states that they are scanned for attendance and to check out books. Is this invasive, or just a technological advancement of what schools have been doing forever (roll call, lbrary check out, grades, etc.) What type of information are they going to derive from these younsters that could be so damning? Johhny Smith checked out Harry Potter three weeks in a row, That little bastard must be a wizard in training!

Don't forget the text messages. If you don't check in on time your parents get a text message.

It's insane. Fingerprints? What the hell is wrong with a little card?

"Tony Blair has said he wants all youngsters monitored for signs of criminality."

Why let's put a chip in them. Put more cameras on the streets as well.

And what will happen to the fingerprints after they leave school? And how can this even happen without parents knowing about it?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mookie9999 wrote:

Where does it say that the kids are getting fingerprinted multiple times a day? It states that they are scanned for attendance and to check out books. Is this invasive, or just a technological advancement of what schools have been doing forever (roll call, lbrary check out, grades, etc.) What type of information are they going to derive from these younsters that could be so damning? Johhny Smith checked out Harry Potter three weeks in a row, That little bastard must be a wizard in training!

Check in, library, lunch room, I was reading to even get on the school bus in a non related article. It's just keeps increasing once the sensitivity to it is gone.

I fail to see the reason and necessity all of the sudden. It's a desensitization to collecting personal information. Why children?

Don't you see that? Can you see that?

I bet you have an air miles card and like the concept.

gue_barium

Juberoo wrote:

This is big here where I live too. They do this for lunch and library...and some schools use it for busing as well. I personally have no problem with it. So they have my kids ONE fingerprint. Big deal.

Then maybe you can enlighten me on why this is a good idea.

tooferz

my grocery store fingerprinted me so i could pay for my stuff without a card...now i just put my thumb in and voila' done deal. of course it's associated with my card but no digging for it, signing or putting in my pin. and if you've ever been to the grocery with a baby n a toddler, you'll understand the ease. i'd think it would cut down on identity theft n such as well.

and i really have no prob with school using my kids fingerprint as id or to assess fees, etc. nor do i have a prob with my kids fingerprint being on file...in case they ever get snatched or something happens. sure a little card could work...but kids lose them on a regular basis. my daughters lost her school id 3 times. it gets expensive paying for replacements. she cant lose her fingers quite as easy.

as for text messages, parents have been called....then in later years, emailed when kids weren't there. i don't see a prob there either. especially if your lil darlin is skipping school and the PARENT is the one who will have to go to court and pay fines if the kid is considered truant. my daughters high school this year changed the truancy level....3 unexcused absences is truant...6 is 'habitual truancy'. i'd kill her if i had to go to court over her skipping.

gue_barium

tooferz wrote:

my grocery store fingerprinted me so i could pay for my stuff without a card...now i just put my thumb in and voila' done deal. of course it's associated with my card but no digging for it, signing or putting in my pin. and if you've ever been to the grocery with a baby n a toddler, you'll understand the ease. i'd think it would cut down on identity theft n such as well.

and i really have no prob with school using my kids fingerprint as id or to assess fees, etc. nor do i have a prob with my kids fingerprint being on file...in case they ever get snatched or something happens. sure a little card could work...but kids lose them on a regular basis. my daughters lost her school id 3 times. it gets expensive paying for replacements. she cant lose her fingers quite as easy.

as for text messages, parents have been called....then in later years, emailed when kids weren't there. i don't see a prob there either. especially if your lil darlin is skipping school and the PARENT is the one who will have to go to court and pay fines if the kid is considered truant. my daughters high school this year changed the truancy level....3 unexcused absences is truant...6 is 'habitual truancy'. i'd kill her if i had to go to court over her skipping.

Faking fingerprints is pretty easy. I saw em do it on mythbusters.

Collin

tooferz wrote:

my grocery store fingerprinted me so i could pay for my stuff without a card...now i just put my thumb in and voila' done deal. of course it's associated with my card but no digging for it, signing or putting in my pin. and if you've ever been to the grocery with a baby n a toddler, you'll understand the ease. i'd think it would cut down on identity theft n such as well.

and i really have no prob with school using my kids fingerprint as id or to assess fees, etc. nor do i have a prob with my kids fingerprint being on file...in case they ever get snatched or something happens. sure a little card could work...but kids lose them on a regular basis. my daughters lost her school id 3 times. it gets expensive paying for replacements. she cant lose her fingers quite as easy.

as for text messages, parents have been called....then in later years, emailed when kids weren't there. i don't see a prob there either. especially if your lil darlin is skipping school and the PARENT is the one who will have to go to court and pay fines if the kid is considered truant. my daughters high school this year changed the truancy level....3 unexcused absences is truant...6 is 'habitual truancy'. i'd kill her if i had to go to court over her skipping.

I'm sorry but I just cannot believe there are people who actually support this.

mookie9999

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Check in, library, lunch room, I was reading to even get on the school bus in a non related article. It's just keeps increasing once the sensitivity to it is gone.

I fail to see the reason and necessity all of the sudden. It's a desensitization to collecting personal information. Why children?

Don't you see that? Can you see that?

I bet you have an air miles card and like the concept.

Again, I ask you, what personal information can be derived from seeing that they checked into the library, school bus, etc.? Schools have been doing a form of this for as long as I can remember, this is more advanced. Is it excessive? Possibly. But what do you fear this will lead to? As far as the reasoning behind it. Other than keeping tabs on students who have to be in class at certain times, couldn't these logs be helpful if God forbid, one of these kids are kidnapped? Having had a family member who was kidnapped and murdered, I appreciate how important timing is on the recovery of a person.

gue_barium

Here's the way I see it. Never in my 9-10 years in the K-12 public education system was I ever required to carry any sort of ID. Nothing. Ever. It worked just fine then, why wouldn't it work that way just as well now?

onelongsong

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

http://education.independent.co.uk/news/article2434942.ece

"Almost six million children at 17,000 schools could have their fingerprints taken, intensifying fears of the growth of a "surveillance society" where personal information is gathered from cradle to grave.

As soaring numbers of schools require pupils to have biometric checks to register in the morning, buy canteen food or borrow a book, it emerged that less than one-quarter of local education authorities have banned collecting fingerprints.

The rest either allow it or have no policy on the issue, potentially enabling headteachers to gather biometric data from about 5.9 million English schoolchildren as young as four without telling their parents."

more:
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.leavethemkidsalone.com/images/fingerprint.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.leavethemkidsalone.com/guidance.htm&h=384&w=371&sz=72&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=T9dcfFcdOSN8lM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dschools%2Bfingerprinting%2Bchildren%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

if your child was kidnapped and that one fingerprint could identify them and be returned to you; would you object? if the neighbour killed your child and a fingerprint taken years earlier could identify the murderer; would you object?
i'm not sure which bit you're objecting to. you haven't identified the BAD portion of fingrprinting. most banks require a fingerprint to cash government checks. some states require fingerprints on drivers licenses. you can't go through life hiding your fingerprint so if there's good that can come from collecting fingerprints from children; what's the problem?

gue_barium

mookie9999 wrote:

Again, I ask you, what personal information can be derived from seeing that they checked into the library, school bus, etc.? Schools have been doing a form of this for as long as I can remember, this is more advanced. Is it excessive? Possibly. But what do you fear this will lead to? As far as the reasoning behind it. Other than keeping tabs on students who have to be in class at certain times, couldn't these logs be helpful if God forbid, one of these kids are kidnapped? Having had a family member who was kidnapped and murdered, I appreciate how important timing is on the recovery of a person.

I think Roland is suggesting it is a system being put in place to desensitize later in life the concept of electronic ID. Up to and including, as Blair has stated, DNA databases. For everyone.

What purpose does it serve, really?

Or should I ask "who's" purpose does it serve?

mookie9999

gue_barium wrote:

Here's the way I see it. Never in my 9-10 years in the K-12 public education system was I ever required to carry any sort of ID. Nothing. Ever. It worked just fine then, why wouldn't it work that way just as well now?

Because we are in an ever evolving world. I didn't have a school ID until 7th grade. Had one every year after that and only pulled it out to get discounts at certain stores.

Collin

mookie9999 wrote:

Again, I ask you, what personal information can be derived from seeing that they checked into the library, school bus, etc.? Schools have been doing a form of this for as long as I can remember, this is more advanced. Is it excessive? Possibly. But what do you fear this will lead to? As far as the reasoning behind it. Other than keeping tabs on students who have to be in class at certain times, couldn't these logs be helpful if God forbid, one of these kids are kidnapped? Having had a family member who was kidnapped and murdered, I appreciate how important timing is on the recovery of a person.

Why not just insert a chip under their skin?

And what this will lead to? I don't know a whole generation that is used to being fingerprinted everywhere they go. There are already eye scans too. Eventually it will lead to an Orwellian world. This generation won't have a problem with chipping everyone at birth and that's when you lose your freedom.

By the way, oh gee, a child skipping school, the horror!