Chavez!!! Penns Buddy??

NCfan

spiral out wrote:

What and there's no propaganda in America and bush is the model president?

Great arguement for Chavez - he must be okay becuase Bush does it too.

Bush sucks and so does his propaganda, which, by-the-way doesn't even compare to Hugo Chavez. "Axis of evil" is pretty low and pathetic, but straight up calling another head of state the devil is in another league by itself.

spiral out

NCfan wrote:

Venezuala is not a true democracy, and it's a bit misguiding to say that the people are free to vote him out of power if they want.

A true democratic governement/society has an un-fettered press, transparent government, free-market economy, independent judicial system, etc...

Chavez has consolidated his power in a way that he controls most of these institutions and is attempting to control key industries/businesses/companies. And the ones he doesn't either own or influence, he harrasses.

It's painfully clear that he is a committed socialist, and throughout history, regimes such as his have been historically hard to "bring down" or vote out of power.

So when America holds it's military coups in countries in south America that's a free society?

The only reason it is in the media is because America has a vested interest in the money that's not going in there pocket.

I don't understand why people are so quick to judge another country, when we have crooks in power that need to be got rid of too.

The media whips up a frenzy and we jump on the bandwagon.

810wmb

polaris wrote:

although i don't agree with this move by chavez ... america is none of the things yuo mentioned ...

canada is the greatest!!!!

the hate for the U.S. up there is pretty widespread...

fuck canada

NCfan

polaris wrote:

although i don't agree with this move by chavez ... america is none of the things yuo mentioned ...

All of those elements above can be debated to a certain degree, but you're really splitting hairs. America is not perfect, but we pretty much are the quentessential democracy on Earth.

spiral out

NCfan wrote:

Great arguement for Chavez - he must be okay becuase Bush does it too.

Bush sucks and so does his propaganda, which, by-the-way doesn't even compare to Hugo Chavez. "Axis of evil" is pretty low and pathetic, but straight up calling another head of state the devil is in another league by itself.

Yea but you notice how you guys avoid talking about bush.

All i ever see around here is, oh that countries (insert media's chosen baddie of the week) leaders so bad.

Why don't we take a long hard look at our own?

I really don't see what the big deal about calling bush a devil is. Whys that so offensive to you?

If he called Blair a devil i wouldn't give a toss.

spiral out

NCfan wrote:

All of those elements above can be debated to a certain degree, but you're really splitting hairs. America is not perfect, but we pretty much are the quentessential democracy on Earth.

How so it's a two horse race and the last election was stolen by bush.

It's the same here it will only ever be labour or conservative.

josevolution

people allways ?? AMERICA to say we are just like all the other fucked up countries in the world ,so why the fuck do we have the biggest immigration problem in the world ,are people dying to go to CHINA ,RUSSIA,NORTH KOREA enough said ,this country is still the best around ...imo...

polaris

NCfan wrote:

All of those elements above can be debated to a certain degree, but you're really splitting hairs. America is not perfect, but we pretty much are the quentessential democracy on Earth.

there is no splitting hairs ... each item you mentioned can be refuted fairly easily ...

and no ... i would not call america the quintessential democracy ... it's a two party country where one bleeds into another ... voting integrity has long been compromised ... america believes it's the beacon of democracy but it really isn't ...

NCfan

spiral out wrote:

So when America holds it's military coups in countries in south America that's a free society?

The only reason it is in the media is because America has a vested interest in the money that's not going in there pocket.

I don't understand why people are so quick to judge another country, when we have crooks in power that need to be got rid of too.

The media whips up a frenzy and we jump on the bandwagon.

Not really sure what to make of your first question, as I can't establish any significant connection between an open society that enjoys protection from the government for it's citizens and guranteed rights established under a constitution with a military operation in Central America 20 years ago.

I wouldn't say America's judgement of Chavez's regime is some sort of knee-jerk reaction. He has continued on a steady and increasing campaign of socializing his country and oppressing his citizens for quite a few years now. In fact, it's such an appaling level of coruption that it doesn't really compare to some of the crooks that run our goverment.

To put it another way, our institutions are sound, though we sometimes elect corrupt people to run them. But not only is Chavez himself corrupt, he is trying to overturn his countries goverment instituions, ecomony and society in a way as to corrupt them for future generations and generally set the collective progress of his nation back by several decades.

I feel pretty comfortable looking down on that, and strongly think that it's newworthy that such radical and threatening changes are taking place to a neighboring country.

polaris

josevolution wrote:

people allways ?? AMERICA to say we are just like all the other fucked up countries in the world ,so why the fuck do we have the biggest immigration problem in the world ,are people dying to go to CHINA ,RUSSIA,NORTH KOREA enough said ,this country is still the best around ...imo...

because your foreign policy has in part caused certain countries in close proximity to you to be poor ... most people who leave central america would never leave if they could make like $20 US a day ... they are only leaving cuz they make $5 ...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

yeah, its our fault mexico sucks

hiding

josevolution wrote:

agreed this fucking monkey indian is not to be trusted fuck him, and to the thread starter where did you get your writting skills damm ...

thread starter here. what is wrong with my writing skills?
i went to art school, not regular college, that might be it. i can draw like a motherf#@ker tho...

writing skills are overrated

josevolution

hiding wrote:

thread starter here. what is wrong with my writing skills?
i went to art school, not regular college, that might be it. i can draw like a motherf#@ker tho...

writing skills are overrated

don't take me seriusly i suck at this too my apologies ....

Cosmo

Chavez!!! Penis Buddy???

josevolution

polaris wrote:

because your foreign policy has in part caused certain countries in close proximity to you to be poor ... most people who leave central america would never leave if they could make like $20 US a day ... they are only leaving cuz they make $5 ...

yeah how about all the EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS that have been coming here in droves for the past 10yrs ...that is AMERICA'S fault also ...my father migrated to here from CHILE because it was the best alternative for him to get hi's family to a better place and that is here...in 1968, thanks dad i owe you my life .......

TheVoiceInside

josevolution wrote:

yeah how about all the EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS that have been coming here in droves for the past 10yrs ...that is AMERICA'S fault also ...my father migrated to here from CHILE because it was the best alternative for him to get hi's family to a better place and that is here...in 1968, thanks dad i owe you my life .......

So are you saying that if you were from Chile your life wouldnt be worth shit.

Amazing. By the way, You should check out how Chile is doing. Looks like a nice place to live in.

polaris

josevolution wrote:

yeah how about all the EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS that have been coming here in droves for the past 10yrs ...that is AMERICA'S fault also ...my father migrated to here from CHILE because it was the best alternative for him to get hi's family to a better place and that is here...in 1968, thanks dad i owe you my life .......

most developed countries have high immigration numbers ... and there is no doubt opportunity exists in america that may not exist in many other countries but that still doesn't change the fact that much of america's wealth has been exploited through economic and military intervention ... if you are proud of the fact companies pay $1.90 an hour to someone in mexico to do a job - then for sure, that's great to you but in my mind - that doesn't make america great ...

NCfan

polaris wrote:

there is no splitting hairs ... each item you mentioned can be refuted fairly easily ...

and no ... i would not call america the quintessential democracy ... it's a two party country where one bleeds into another ... voting integrity has long been compromised ... america believes it's the beacon of democracy but it really isn't ...

And easily defended. I agree that our two party political system needs an overhaul, but that is just one aspect of our government beauracracy and does not tell the whole story of American society in general.

If America isn't the world's beacon of democracy, then surely one does not exist.

NCfan

polaris wrote:

because your foreign policy has in part caused certain countries in close proximity to you to be poor ... most people who leave central america would never leave if they could make like $20 US a day ... they are only leaving cuz they make $5 ...

Wow, now there is a narrow view. Let's look at our cheif economic policy with regards to our neighbors, NAFTA.

That economic policy has been mostly hostile towards American workers, and a complete failure in its goals. It has been a policy that has benefited our neighbors and hurt our own economy.

US companies have outsourced their operations over the border into Canada and Mexico, costing tens of thousands of American jobs. It has nearly ruined our fruit and vegetable farmers among other industries.

With no tariffs, how can an American farmer compete with produce from Mexico that is grown with cheap labor, leanient labor laws/no inforcement, cheap pesticides that are outlawed by the US EPA, taken to market by a truck that does not meet any sort of government mandated saftey inspection and whose driver has no license? Not to mention the rampant corruption that exist in business down there, that allows Mexican companies to cut even more corners to maximize their profit margins.

It's cheaper to business in Mexico, and American companies have/are investing there in droves!

Besides, it is HARDLY American economic policies that are oppressing neighboring economies. There are a multitude of reasons that Mexio and other countries are not progressing.

mammasan

spiral out wrote:

No i really don't see what the issue is, it is democratic society they are free to vote him out of power if they want.

But obviously he is a villain as he's not complying with America.

There was a failed coup there backed by America not so long ago.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,688071,00.html

This is the real issue here as always.

Hard to vote him our if he never holds another lection.

Also please tell me how a thread about Chavez consolidating power all of a sudden becomes a thread on raging on America. I know my country has problems. I know my government is far from perfect and that we have in the past participated and carried out some pretty shaddy acts. There are a lot of flaws to this country but not every problem the world has is the fault of the US. Chavez is an asshole who id modeling himself after Castro, great role model to have. Anyone who things that this man is anything but a power hungry disctator is dillusional. Bush may be an asshole and a complete shithead but he pales in comparison to Chavez.