It looks like you have all you need to answer your own questions. If you're going to misconstrue my ideas to fit your agenda, then, I'll just bow out and and make it easier for you to do so.
quote]
"All people are equal and should be treated as such. What I'm saying is that they are not. And considering such inequity, you'll pardon me if I'm focussing on those who are receiving less consideration and who therefore have an issue as a result."
Above is a quote from you.
Below is my interpretation.
She already covered that. Because minority issues and insensitivities are often not acknowledged by the mainstream, it is not an equal playing field. As such it is ok for those that are minorities and comedians have free range at what material they like. Double-Standard?? Absolutely. BTW Carlos Mencia is an amazing comedian!!
Other than my "stretch" of comedians having free range, I don't see a difference in what is being said. If non-minorities don't have an issue due to them being non-minorities, then how have I tried to "misconstrue my ideas to fit your agenda"?
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
She already covered that. Because minority issues and insensitivities are often not acknowledged by the mainstream, it is not an equal playing field. As such it is ok for those that are minorities and comedians have free range at what material they like. Double-Standard?? Absolutely. BTW Carlos Mencia is an amazing comedian!!
i didn't read back. sorry. but i agree. you can now say "son of a bitch" on tv yet in a recent episode of sanford and son; the line "what'd you say nigger" by ester was censored out. i like carlos mencia and i laugh my ass off at him. he doesn't pick one race; but gives us all hell.
i'm offended when i see 2 guys kissing on tv but no one has asked what offends me. if i complain it wouldn't do any good. i think it was jackie martlin (another great) that said asians eyes are slanted and partially closed because of all the rice they eat. too constipating. something like that. he also said WHY DID DISNEYLAND FAIL IN JAPAN........NOBODY WAS TALL ENOUGH TO GET ON THE RIDES. where was the outcry then? lenny bruce must be rolling over in his grave by all this. when the smoke clears; he fought for nothing.
It looks like you have all you need to answer your own questions. If you're going to misconstrue my ideas to fit your agenda, then, I'll just bow out and and make it easier for you to do so.
"All people are equal and should be treated as such. What I'm saying is that they are not. And considering such inequity, you'll pardon me if I'm focussing on those who are receiving less consideration and who therefore have an issue as a result."
Above is a quote from you.
Below is my interpretation.
She already covered that. Because minority issues and insensitivities are often not acknowledged by the mainstream, it is not an equal playing field. As such it is ok for those that are minorities and comedians have free range at what material they like. Double-Standard?? Absolutely. BTW Carlos Mencia is an amazing comedian!!
Other than my "stretch" of comedians having free range, I don't see a difference in what is being said. If non-minorities don't have an issue due to them being non-minorities, then how have I tried to "misconstrue my ideas to fit your agenda"?
Your "stretch" added your own mutated slant to what I actually said. Then, since your "stretch" gave you the reasoning to call "double standard", you did so, irrespective of my actually having a double standard. And here you are justifying your stance, like "what did I do, other than my "stretch"?? Interesting.
My standard all along was that an issue was raised, and I was addressing it specifically. I specifically expressed that I was not interested in side, complicating issues like "what if", or "what about" that were irrelevent. I see that people have every reason in the book to not address the actual issue. I see that as minimizing the issue, and I see it as denial. The "side" what-if's are merely justifying the unjustifiable.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Then, since your "stretch" gave you the reasoning to call "double standard", you did so, irrespective of my actually having a double standard.
quote]
No, Wrong! My ability to call double standard was soley based on your claiming that only minorities have an issue. There was no what-if's in Fanchs statement, but rather posing a why is there a double standard. You can talk in circles all day, but the fact of the matter is if this (poking fun of people's differences) is unacceptable to one in order for it to be just it has to be unacceptable to all.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
lenny bruce must be rolling over in his grave by all this. when the smoke clears; he fought for nothing.
We are heading in reverse in America. It only takes a moment to look at the posts from people in the U.K and Canada to see how ridiculous we have become.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
Then, since your "stretch" gave you the reasoning to call "double standard", you did so, irrespective of my actually having a double standard.
No, Wrong! My ability to call double standard was soley based on your claiming that only minorities have an issue. There was no what-if's in Fanchs statement, but rather posing a why is there a double standard. You can talk in circles all day, but the fact of the matter is if this (poking fun of people's differences) is unacceptable to one in order for it to be just it has to be unacceptable to all.
I did not claim only minorities had a problem. I claimed that in this instance the issue stemmed from a minority group. fanch was talking about a non-problem, in that he WAS NOT bothered by jokes about whites. I pointed out that there are reasons for that discrepancy between his experience and that of the original poster. They have different situations backing them. Your interpretation of double standard remains separate from my actual stance. The "what-if" part comes in because fanch DID NOT have a problem, so I'm not willing to equate that with someone who DOES have a problem. I'm not willing to get into Sanford and Son and other comics, because that's not what this is about.
So, at this point, are you saying that for me to be willing to hear out the point of view of a minority group, looking to understand what their issue is in order to understand the problem, that I therefore have a double standard?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We are heading in reverse in America. It only takes a moment to look at the posts from people in the U.K and Canada to see how ridiculous we have become.
looking back at the posts; i see your point. i'm 99% polish and i grew up with at least 10 polish jokes a day. even in 5th grade everyone gathered to tell their latest polish jokes. in fact; in 7th or 8th grade a kid brought in a book of nothing but polish jokes. it was all in fun and i told as many as anyone else. i don't ever recall being hurt or offended by one of them. i remember waking up one night and my parents were watching don rickles on johnny carson. before they rushed me off to bed i heard him say we need to laugh at ourselves. i've kept that with me and i think i'm a better person because of it.
there are these things called tact and delivery..........you should look into them.
Your exchange with the person who was offended made you sound childish.......even though i don't necessarily disagree with your viewpoint.
It's okay that you perceive my approach that way. You're entitled to your opinion.
But I have a lot of different ways of approaching things and sometimes it involves a little, playful illustration of the point I'm making. some people get it, some people don't get it and othe's think it's childish.
I did not claim only minorities had a problem. I claimed that in this instance the issue stemmed from a minority group. fanch was talking about a non-problem, in that he WAS NOT bothered by jokes about whites. I pointed out that there are reasons for that discrepancy between his experience and that of the original poster. They have different situations backing them. Your interpretation of double standard remains separate from my actual stance. The "what-if" part comes in because fanch DID NOT have a problem, so I'm not willing to equate that with someone who DOES have a problem. I'm not willing to get into Sanford and Son and other comics, because that's not what this is about.
So, at this point, are you saying that for me to be willing to hear out the point of view of a minority group, looking to understand what their issue is in order to understand the problem, that I therefore have a double standard?
I did not claim only minorities had a problem. I claimed that in this instance the issue stemmed from a minority group. fanch was talking about a non-problem, in that he WAS NOT bothered by jokes about whites. I pointed out that there are reasons for that discrepancy between his experience and that of the original poster. They have different situations backing them. Your interpretation of double standard remains separate from my actual stance. The "what-if" part comes in because fanch DID NOT have a problem, so I'm not willing to equate that with someone who DOES have a problem. I'm not willing to get into Sanford and Son and other comics, because that's not what this is about.
So, at this point, are you saying that for me to be willing to hear out the point of view of a minority group, looking to understand what their issue is in order to understand the problem, that I therefore have a double standard?
No, I am not saying "for me to be willing to hear out the point of view of a minority group, looking to understand what their issue is in order to understand the problem, that I therefore have a double standard" What I am saying is that there is a double standard involved in who is able to make fun of certain groups of people. I misunderstood your "non-issue" point. But to touch upon the non-issue why do you feel that it is a non-issue, not just with fanch but with the majority of whites? The only white people who seemed to truly be bothered by this are the same idiot racists who complain about african americans having a BET station not realizing that when they want their own "WET" station it already exists in the form of the three major networks. Obviously we don't live in an ideal world, but I easily grow tired of people making a "mountain out of a molehill." We have been discussing this, the people who have complained about this have made the mountain. Not that they shouldn't be heard, but why not use those same voices to oppose true hate groups like the Christian right who abhor homosexuals, sexists who continue to make the workplace uncomfortable for women, or racists in all forms throughout society, not Rosie O' Fuckin Donnel!!! She may be an easy target because she is a national figure, but that just shows to me the laziness of the fight. If she truly is a racist, what have they done?? Stopped one person's injustice. Fight the whole, not the individual!
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
i grew up with don rickles and redd foxx among others and this PC stuff is rediculous. why isn't anyone crying about carlos mencia?
Because he's part Mexican and makes enough fun of white people to balance out the PCers over-sensitivity. If he was a white guy, there would be daily protests and visits to the hospital to try and remove that enormous stick out of their ass.
looking back at the posts; i see your point. i'm 99% polish and i grew up with at least 10 polish jokes a day. even in 5th grade everyone gathered to tell their latest polish jokes. in fact; in 7th or 8th grade a kid brought in a book of nothing but polish jokes. it was all in fun and i told as many as anyone else. i don't ever recall being hurt or offended by one of them. i remember waking up one night and my parents were watching don rickles on johnny carson. before they rushed me off to bed i heard him say we need to laugh at ourselves. i've kept that with me and i think i'm a better person because of it.
This is from one of my favorite bits George Carlin ever performed:
There's a different group to get pissed off at you in this country for everything your not supposed to say. Can't say Nigger, Boogie, Jig, Jigaboo, Skinhead, Moolimoolinyon, Schvatzit, Junglebunny. Greaser, Greaseball, Dago, Guinea, Whop, Ginzo, Kike, Zebe, Heed, Yid, Mocky, Himie, Mick, Donkey, Turkey, Limey, Frog. Zip, Zipperhead, Squarehead, Crout, Hiney, Jerry, Hun, Slope, Slopehead, Chink, Gook. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. Their only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. Bullshit! It's the context that makes them good or bad. The context. That makes them good or bad. For instance, you take the word "Nigger." There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word "Nigger" in and of itself. It's the racist asshole who's using it that you ought to be concerned about. We don't mind when Richard Pryer or Eddie Murphy say it. Why? Because we know their not racist. Their Niggers! Context. Context. We don't mind their context because we know their black. Hey, I know I'm whitey, the blue-eyed devil, paddy-o, fay gray boy, honkey, mother-fucker myself. Don't bother my ass. Their only words. You can't be afraid of words that speak the truth, even if it's an unpleasant truth, like the fact that there's a bigot and a racist in every living room on every street corner in this country.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
I don't like words that hide the truth. I don't words that conceal reality. I don't like euphemisms, or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protest themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation. For some reason, it just keeps getting worse. I'll give you an example of that. There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap. In the first world war, that condition was called shell shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, shell shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves. That was seventy years ago. Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called battle fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell shock! Battle fatigue. Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called operational exhaustion. Hey, were up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car. Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called post-traumatic stress disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-traumatic stress disorder. I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it shell shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I'll betcha. I'll betcha. Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that. The CIA doesn't kill anybody anymore, they neutralize people...or they depopulate the area. The government doesn't lie, it engages in disinformation. The pentagon actually measures nuclear radiation in something they call sunshine units. Israeli murderers are called commandos. Arab commandos are called terrorists. Contra killers are called freedom fighters. Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part of it to us, do they? Never mention that part of it.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
No, I am not saying "for me to be willing to hear out the point of view of a minority group, looking to understand what their issue is in order to understand the problem, that I therefore have a double standard" What I am saying is that there is a double standard involved in who is able to make fun of certain groups of people. I misunderstood your "non-issue" point. But to touch upon the non-issue why do you feel that it is a non-issue, not just with fanch but with the majority of whites? The only white people who seemed to truly be bothered by this are the same idiot racists who complain about african americans having a BET station not realizing that when they want their own "WET" station it already exists in the form of the three major networks. Obviously we don't live in an ideal world, but I easily grow tired of people making a "mountain out of a molehill." We have been discussing this, the people who have complained about this have made the mountain. Not that they shouldn't be heard, but why not use those same voices to oppose true hate groups like the Christian right who abhor homosexuals, sexists who continue to make the workplace uncomfortable for women, or racists in all forms throughout society, not Rosie O' Fuckin Donnel!!! She may be an easy target because she is a national figure, but that just shows to me the laziness of the fight. If she truly is a racist, what have they done?? Stopped one person's injustice. Fight the whole, not the individual!
Number one, I personally have not judged any comedian's humour and what is or is not acceptable. I'm not coming from that position at all. Frankly, I love that like other art-forms, comedy can slide important issues into our consciousness, without people really understanding. "it's all in good fun!". So comedy is an amazing weapon of truth and growth. I personally like Rosie. I've followed her since she began, and she's a pretty decent person in my opinion. Some of the far harsher comics often make very profound statements with their irreverence. I'm all for that.
Where I'm coming from in this thread is that if someone has an issue, I'm going to listen to them and hear them out. I'm not going to minimize it, gloss over it, or mock it. I'm not going to tell them to think like me--I'm not the arbiter of people's thoughts! I think that's an insane suggestion--"oh, just don't feel the way you do!". It doesn't work. This is where I'm coming from. If others want to fight for the right of comedy, and free speech, and so on, I'm looking at what my heart tells me is a point that's being glossed over. It seems many in this thread see otherwise. Where I start getting frustrated and upset is when communication, itself breaks down, and no one gets heard.
The "non-issues" may be your issues. They may be entirely valid ones. They are just not this issue--to me the issue with Rosie and the Asian-American community watching her show. You may see it differently.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't like words that hide the truth. I don't words that conceal reality. I don't like euphemisms, or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protest themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation. For some reason, it just keeps getting worse. I'll give you an example of that. There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap. In the first world war, that condition was called shell shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, shell shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves. That was seventy years ago. Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called battle fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell shock! Battle fatigue. Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called operational exhaustion. Hey, were up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car. Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called post-traumatic stress disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-traumatic stress disorder. I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it shell shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I'll betcha. I'll betcha. Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that. The CIA doesn't kill anybody anymore, they neutralize people...or they depopulate the area. The government doesn't lie, it engages in disinformation. The pentagon actually measures nuclear radiation in something they call sunshine units. Israeli murderers are called commandos. Arab commandos are called terrorists. Contra killers are called freedom fighters. Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part of it to us, do they? Never mention that part of it.
Excellent example!
The deluting, the smoothing out .......the elimination of the human element ....make it more PC and less emotional. Make it sound harmless.
Nothing but a bunch of babble designed to hide the truth and make it sound less intense.
This is from one of my favorite bits George Carlin ever performed:
There's a different group to get pissed off at you in this country for everything your not supposed to say. Can't say Nigger, Boogie, Jig, Jigaboo, Skinhead, Moolimoolinyon, Schvatzit, Junglebunny. Greaser, Greaseball, Dago, Guinea, Whop, Ginzo, Kike, Zebe, Heed, Yid, Mocky, Himie, Mick, Donkey, Turkey, Limey, Frog. Zip, Zipperhead, Squarehead, Crout, Hiney, Jerry, Hun, Slope, Slopehead, Chink, Gook. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. Their only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. Bullshit! It's the context that makes them good or bad. The context. That makes them good or bad. For instance, you take the word "Nigger." There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word "Nigger" in and of itself. It's the racist asshole who's using it that you ought to be concerned about. We don't mind when Richard Pryer or Eddie Murphy say it. Why? Because we know their not racist. Their Niggers! Context. Context. We don't mind their context because we know their black. Hey, I know I'm whitey, the blue-eyed devil, paddy-o, fay gray boy, honkey, mother-fucker myself. Don't bother my ass. Their only words. You can't be afraid of words that speak the truth, even if it's an unpleasant truth, like the fact that there's a bigot and a racist in every living room on every street corner in this country.
Have you ever watched George Carlin perform as "the conductor" on "Shining Time Station". If so, you'll note that he had a much different code of behaviour as a key figure on a children's show. Context.
I agree to what is being said here, to a degree. Where I part ways from this is that I know humans are going to come from where they ARE coming from. I see that people are in all kinds of natural stages of evolution and therefore all kinds of people will be coming from different perspectives at any time. Some will understand this mentality, others won't. Therefore, we can't have any one standard. I see that we need to assess the variables of each situation, and negotiate, rather than assume some blanket rule will work in solving all things.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
There is a man who visits USA on a vacation from his home country: China. The first day he exchanges some Chinese money for twenty dollars. That day he paints the town red and needs to go to get more money.
The next day he goes back to the same currency exchange office and gives the same amount of Chinese currency, but only gets 19 dollars in return. In broken English, he says to the clerk, "Yestaday, I give you Chinese money and you give me 20 dollars. Today, I give you same money, you give 19."
The clerk replies, "Sir, it's the market. Fluctuations."
The Chinese man gets an enraged look on his face and yells back, "Fluck you Asians!!? Well Fluck You Americans!!"
I have faced it, A life wasted...
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
Have you ever watched George Carlin perform as "the conductor" on "Shining Time Station". If so, you'll note that he had a much different code of behaviour as a key figure on a children's show. Context.
I agree to what is being said here, to a degree. Where I part ways from this is that I know humans are going to come from where they ARE coming from. I see that people are in all kinds of natural stages of evolution and therefore all kinds of people will be coming from different perspectives at any time. Some will understand this mentality, others won't. Therefore, we can't have any one standard. I see that we need to assess the variables of each situation, and negotiate, rather than assume some blanket rule will work in solving all things.
I have not seen him on the children's show but am aware of it. I would hope that he wasn't doing a bit on PTSD as the conductor. However, I would assume that the majority of the Views audience are not children. Since people are coming from different perspectives and natural stages of evolution, it would be impossible to assess the variables of a situation such as the typical audience of your show and how you might offend them without completely censoring all forms of race discussion with any hints of humor involved or else you could easily be labeled a racist.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
This is from one of my favorite bits George Carlin ever performed:
There's a different group to get pissed off at you in this country for everything your not supposed to say. Can't say Nigger, Boogie, Jig, Jigaboo, Skinhead, Moolimoolinyon, Schvatzit, Junglebunny. Greaser, Greaseball, Dago, Guinea, Whop, Ginzo, Kike, Zebe, Heed, Yid, Mocky, Himie, Mick, Donkey, Turkey, Limey, Frog. Zip, Zipperhead, Squarehead, Crout, Hiney, Jerry, Hun, Slope, Slopehead, Chink, Gook. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. Their only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. Bullshit! It's the context that makes them good or bad. The context. That makes them good or bad. For instance, you take the word "Nigger." There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word "Nigger" in and of itself. It's the racist asshole who's using it that you ought to be concerned about. We don't mind when Richard Pryer or Eddie Murphy say it. Why? Because we know their not racist. Their Niggers! Context. Context. We don't mind their context because we know their black. Hey, I know I'm whitey, the blue-eyed devil, paddy-o, fay gray boy, honkey, mother-fucker myself. Don't bother my ass. Their only words. You can't be afraid of words that speak the truth, even if it's an unpleasant truth, like the fact that there's a bigot and a racist in every living room on every street corner in this country.
my grandfather always said WORDS ARE LIKE FARTS; THEY DISIPATE IN THE WIND. so words don't bother me no matter who is speaking them. i revert to the speaker him/her self.
i also heard that the biggest minority is a white american. a white american is bound by the strictest rules. for example; every race can use the N word except the white american. racist or not. it is not acceptable for a white american to use that word in any forum. so i see where you're feeling of double standard is coming from. carlos and many other mexicans use the word beaner in every day conversation. but let a white american say beaner and all hell breaks lose. this double standard breeds racism and that's why we are moving backwards.
I have not seen him on the children's show but am aware of it. I would hope that he wasn't doing a bit on PTSD as the conductor. However, I would assume that the majority of the Views audience are not children. Since people are coming from different perspectives and natural stages of evolution, it would be impossible to assess the variables of a situation such as the typical audience of your show and how you might offend them without completely censoring all forms of race discussion with any hints of humor involved or else you could easily be labeled a racist.
I'm guessing that like George Carlin, Rosie well understands the context of her position on the view. I'm sure she consciously channels her comedy into a different place than she would in a club where people are drinking, or on a comedy album, marketed towards "her" viewers, alone. Part of the brilliance of those who eke out such positions is in having a sense of their audience. Like it looks like George Carlin did from all levels, including children's programming. Understanding context in such a ways has enabled both of them to affect people to a mass degree, whether we like it or not. Those who understand "context", know they must adapt to the, well, context, which means assessing each new set of variables in each new situation, not imposing blanket rules arbitrarily.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
whether we like it or not. Those who understand "context", know they must adapt to the, well, context, which means assessing each new set of variables in each new situation, not imposing blanket rules arbitrarily.
Filming "the view" on a daily basis does not create a new situation. It is the same thing (as are most talk shows) just with different topics. The shows demographics are not ever changing (well maybe less asians this week) but otherwise they remain the same. As such, topics of race will continue to arise, be acceptable to talk about, but not be joked about without the threat of being labeled a racist. As a result of this there will be blanket rules from now on about what types of jokes will be made on the show when it comes to race. They do not want to be known as that racist morning talk show, and Barbara Walters would never let he name be dragged in the mud over something like this!
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
carlos and many other mexicans use the word beaner in every day conversation. but let a white american say beaner and all hell breaks lose. this double standard breeds racism and that's why we are moving backwards.
I want to use the word "Beaner". Not because I'm a racist, just because it's a damn funny word! I like beans, why can't I be a beaner??
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
Filming "the view" on a daily basis does not create a new situation. It is the same thing (as are most talk shows) just with different topics. The shows demographics are not ever changing (well maybe less asians this week) but otherwise they remain the same. As such, topics of race will continue to arise, be acceptable to talk about, but not be joked about without the threat of being labeled a racist. As a result of this there will be blanket rules from now on about what types of jokes will be made on the show when it comes to race. They do not want to be known as that racist morning talk show, and Barbara Walters would never let he name be dragged in the mud over something like this!
What I was referring to is that she would say different things for a drunken bar crowd. Like George Carlin. I'm well aware the view has somewhat of a standard. However, I used to watch Rosie's talk show and she was very good at "mainstream" America, imo. And she was celebrated for that show for a few years.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I want to use the word "Beaner". Not because I'm a racist, just because it's a damn funny word! I like beans, why can't I be a beaner??
in the late 80's; early 90's; there was a popular saying: cool beans. this evolved into "cool beaners" and was no big deal. a woman in town here got fired from a job for saying "cool beaners" because she said the word beaners. she was white and promptly walked out the front door. the hispanics there still use the word beaners in a different CONTEXT there but they have their jobs. she was fired because she was white and said beaners.
thus; the double standard.
What I was referring to is that she would say different things for a drunken bar crowd. Like George Carlin. I'm well aware the view has somewhat of a standard. However, I used to watch Rosie's talk show and she was very good at "mainstream" America, imo. And she was celebrated for that show for a few years.
more than 50% of mainstream americans are gun owners and she lost them years ago.
Comments
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
I'm done with it. Carry on.
i didn't read back. sorry. but i agree. you can now say "son of a bitch" on tv yet in a recent episode of sanford and son; the line "what'd you say nigger" by ester was censored out. i like carlos mencia and i laugh my ass off at him. he doesn't pick one race; but gives us all hell.
i'm offended when i see 2 guys kissing on tv but no one has asked what offends me. if i complain it wouldn't do any good. i think it was jackie martlin (another great) that said asians eyes are slanted and partially closed because of all the rice they eat. too constipating. something like that. he also said WHY DID DISNEYLAND FAIL IN JAPAN........NOBODY WAS TALL ENOUGH TO GET ON THE RIDES. where was the outcry then? lenny bruce must be rolling over in his grave by all this. when the smoke clears; he fought for nothing.
My standard all along was that an issue was raised, and I was addressing it specifically. I specifically expressed that I was not interested in side, complicating issues like "what if", or "what about" that were irrelevent. I see that people have every reason in the book to not address the actual issue. I see that as minimizing the issue, and I see it as denial. The "side" what-if's are merely justifying the unjustifiable.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
We are heading in reverse in America. It only takes a moment to look at the posts from people in the U.K and Canada to see how ridiculous we have become.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
So, at this point, are you saying that for me to be willing to hear out the point of view of a minority group, looking to understand what their issue is in order to understand the problem, that I therefore have a double standard?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
looking back at the posts; i see your point. i'm 99% polish and i grew up with at least 10 polish jokes a day. even in 5th grade everyone gathered to tell their latest polish jokes. in fact; in 7th or 8th grade a kid brought in a book of nothing but polish jokes. it was all in fun and i told as many as anyone else. i don't ever recall being hurt or offended by one of them. i remember waking up one night and my parents were watching don rickles on johnny carson. before they rushed me off to bed i heard him say we need to laugh at ourselves. i've kept that with me and i think i'm a better person because of it.
It's okay that you perceive my approach that way. You're entitled to your opinion.
But I have a lot of different ways of approaching things and sometimes it involves a little, playful illustration of the point I'm making. some people get it, some people don't get it and othe's think it's childish.
That's okay.
doesn't angelica write beautifully?
No, I am not saying "for me to be willing to hear out the point of view of a minority group, looking to understand what their issue is in order to understand the problem, that I therefore have a double standard" What I am saying is that there is a double standard involved in who is able to make fun of certain groups of people. I misunderstood your "non-issue" point. But to touch upon the non-issue why do you feel that it is a non-issue, not just with fanch but with the majority of whites? The only white people who seemed to truly be bothered by this are the same idiot racists who complain about african americans having a BET station not realizing that when they want their own "WET" station it already exists in the form of the three major networks. Obviously we don't live in an ideal world, but I easily grow tired of people making a "mountain out of a molehill." We have been discussing this, the people who have complained about this have made the mountain. Not that they shouldn't be heard, but why not use those same voices to oppose true hate groups like the Christian right who abhor homosexuals, sexists who continue to make the workplace uncomfortable for women, or racists in all forms throughout society, not Rosie O' Fuckin Donnel!!! She may be an easy target because she is a national figure, but that just shows to me the laziness of the fight. If she truly is a racist, what have they done?? Stopped one person's injustice. Fight the whole, not the individual!
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
Because he's part Mexican and makes enough fun of white people to balance out the PCers over-sensitivity. If he was a white guy, there would be daily protests and visits to the hospital to try and remove that enormous stick out of their ass.
This is from one of my favorite bits George Carlin ever performed:
There's a different group to get pissed off at you in this country for everything your not supposed to say. Can't say Nigger, Boogie, Jig, Jigaboo, Skinhead, Moolimoolinyon, Schvatzit, Junglebunny. Greaser, Greaseball, Dago, Guinea, Whop, Ginzo, Kike, Zebe, Heed, Yid, Mocky, Himie, Mick, Donkey, Turkey, Limey, Frog. Zip, Zipperhead, Squarehead, Crout, Hiney, Jerry, Hun, Slope, Slopehead, Chink, Gook. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those words in and of themselves. Their only words. It's the context that counts. It's the user. It's the intention behind the words that makes them good or bad. The words are completely neutral. The words are innocent. I get tired of people talking about bad words and bad language. Bullshit! It's the context that makes them good or bad. The context. That makes them good or bad. For instance, you take the word "Nigger." There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word "Nigger" in and of itself. It's the racist asshole who's using it that you ought to be concerned about. We don't mind when Richard Pryer or Eddie Murphy say it. Why? Because we know their not racist. Their Niggers! Context. Context. We don't mind their context because we know their black. Hey, I know I'm whitey, the blue-eyed devil, paddy-o, fay gray boy, honkey, mother-fucker myself. Don't bother my ass. Their only words. You can't be afraid of words that speak the truth, even if it's an unpleasant truth, like the fact that there's a bigot and a racist in every living room on every street corner in this country.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
I don't like words that hide the truth. I don't words that conceal reality. I don't like euphemisms, or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protest themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation. For some reason, it just keeps getting worse. I'll give you an example of that. There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap. In the first world war, that condition was called shell shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, shell shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves. That was seventy years ago. Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called battle fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell shock! Battle fatigue. Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called operational exhaustion. Hey, were up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car. Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called post-traumatic stress disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-traumatic stress disorder. I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it shell shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I'll betcha. I'll betcha. Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that. The CIA doesn't kill anybody anymore, they neutralize people...or they depopulate the area. The government doesn't lie, it engages in disinformation. The pentagon actually measures nuclear radiation in something they call sunshine units. Israeli murderers are called commandos. Arab commandos are called terrorists. Contra killers are called freedom fighters. Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part of it to us, do they? Never mention that part of it.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
For them to get all upset about dumbass Roise O'Donnell is laughable.
Like I said, hypocrisy and double-standards. If you feed it and appease it, you're part of the problem; not part of the solution.
Number one, I personally have not judged any comedian's humour and what is or is not acceptable. I'm not coming from that position at all. Frankly, I love that like other art-forms, comedy can slide important issues into our consciousness, without people really understanding. "it's all in good fun!". So comedy is an amazing weapon of truth and growth. I personally like Rosie. I've followed her since she began, and she's a pretty decent person in my opinion. Some of the far harsher comics often make very profound statements with their irreverence. I'm all for that.
Where I'm coming from in this thread is that if someone has an issue, I'm going to listen to them and hear them out. I'm not going to minimize it, gloss over it, or mock it. I'm not going to tell them to think like me--I'm not the arbiter of people's thoughts! I think that's an insane suggestion--"oh, just don't feel the way you do!". It doesn't work. This is where I'm coming from. If others want to fight for the right of comedy, and free speech, and so on, I'm looking at what my heart tells me is a point that's being glossed over. It seems many in this thread see otherwise. Where I start getting frustrated and upset is when communication, itself breaks down, and no one gets heard.
The "non-issues" may be your issues. They may be entirely valid ones. They are just not this issue--to me the issue with Rosie and the Asian-American community watching her show. You may see it differently.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Excellent example!
The deluting, the smoothing out .......the elimination of the human element ....make it more PC and less emotional. Make it sound harmless.
Nothing but a bunch of babble designed to hide the truth and make it sound less intense.
Have you ever watched George Carlin perform as "the conductor" on "Shining Time Station". If so, you'll note that he had a much different code of behaviour as a key figure on a children's show. Context.
I agree to what is being said here, to a degree. Where I part ways from this is that I know humans are going to come from where they ARE coming from. I see that people are in all kinds of natural stages of evolution and therefore all kinds of people will be coming from different perspectives at any time. Some will understand this mentality, others won't. Therefore, we can't have any one standard. I see that we need to assess the variables of each situation, and negotiate, rather than assume some blanket rule will work in solving all things.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The next day he goes back to the same currency exchange office and gives the same amount of Chinese currency, but only gets 19 dollars in return. In broken English, he says to the clerk, "Yestaday, I give you Chinese money and you give me 20 dollars. Today, I give you same money, you give 19."
The clerk replies, "Sir, it's the market. Fluctuations."
The Chinese man gets an enraged look on his face and yells back, "Fluck you Asians!!? Well Fluck You Americans!!"
Take my hand, my child of love
Come step inside my tears
Swim the magic ocean,
I've been crying all these years
I have not seen him on the children's show but am aware of it. I would hope that he wasn't doing a bit on PTSD as the conductor. However, I would assume that the majority of the Views audience are not children. Since people are coming from different perspectives and natural stages of evolution, it would be impossible to assess the variables of a situation such as the typical audience of your show and how you might offend them without completely censoring all forms of race discussion with any hints of humor involved or else you could easily be labeled a racist.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
my grandfather always said WORDS ARE LIKE FARTS; THEY DISIPATE IN THE WIND. so words don't bother me no matter who is speaking them. i revert to the speaker him/her self.
i also heard that the biggest minority is a white american. a white american is bound by the strictest rules. for example; every race can use the N word except the white american. racist or not. it is not acceptable for a white american to use that word in any forum. so i see where you're feeling of double standard is coming from. carlos and many other mexicans use the word beaner in every day conversation. but let a white american say beaner and all hell breaks lose. this double standard breeds racism and that's why we are moving backwards.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Filming "the view" on a daily basis does not create a new situation. It is the same thing (as are most talk shows) just with different topics. The shows demographics are not ever changing (well maybe less asians this week) but otherwise they remain the same. As such, topics of race will continue to arise, be acceptable to talk about, but not be joked about without the threat of being labeled a racist. As a result of this there will be blanket rules from now on about what types of jokes will be made on the show when it comes to race. They do not want to be known as that racist morning talk show, and Barbara Walters would never let he name be dragged in the mud over something like this!
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
I want to use the word "Beaner". Not because I'm a racist, just because it's a damn funny word! I like beans, why can't I be a beaner??
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
in the late 80's; early 90's; there was a popular saying: cool beans. this evolved into "cool beaners" and was no big deal. a woman in town here got fired from a job for saying "cool beaners" because she said the word beaners. she was white and promptly walked out the front door. the hispanics there still use the word beaners in a different CONTEXT there but they have their jobs. she was fired because she was white and said beaners.
thus; the double standard.
Did she do the "asian voice" back in the day?
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
more than 50% of mainstream americans are gun owners and she lost them years ago.