I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
well whoopty-do maaan, so you are saying it's ok to put down stray dogs? but when it's criminal he/she has more right to live than a useless (for you) stray dog.......hmm........
No, I wasn't saying that at all. I suppose that post was a bit emotional and inflammatory. I was just what came to mind after reading the article on the first page. I find the very concept of capital punishment completely abhorrhent, but the lethal injection method seems to me to be a new level of sickness. Humane vengeance? If the sick bastards that came up with this feel that its unethical to inflict pain and suffering how the hell can they justify inflicting death?
I love dogs by the way. More than people sometimes. At least they're always honest.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
you didn't need to answer one thing about o.j. i already posted before you even responded "that's the way the system works" i tried to get you to save yr blowhard breath.
you think you know every fuckin' thing?
what's this bug in yr ass?
this forum is about debate. do you know what debate means? you struggled with the concept of an appeals process, so i'm not sure you do. it means you make points, and then you back them up. i figured you were here for political debate, since it so clearly says that is why this forum is here. apparently i was wrong. you prefer to make ridiculous claims and when someone calls you on your bullshit you offer such insightful responses as "yr wrong" and "see my penis." i'm sure your elementary school has a playground where you can put this stunning logical analysis to excellent use. but if you insist on trying to play with the grown ups, we will expect you to be able to think and debate like one. and thus i will call you out every time you make a dumbass claim with no substance.
this forum is about debate. do you know what debate means? you struggled with the concept of an appeals process, so i'm not sure you do. it means you make points, and back them up. i assumed you were here for political debate. apparently i was wrong. you prefer to make ridiculous claims and when someone calls you on your bullshit you offer such insightful responses as "yr wrong" and "see my penis." i'm sure your elementary school has a playground where you can put this kind of stunning logical analysis to excellent use. but if you insist on trying to play with the grown ups, we will expect you to be able to think and debate like one. and i will call you out every time you make a dumbass claim with no substance.
great, my friend, i'm looking forward to it.
edit - oh yeah, thanks again for being condescending...yr a real piece of work...teach me, please, mr grownup
glad you think it's good....cause yr panties get in a fuckin knot every time i show up.
kiss me shitslinger
yup, this is very good argument. you have supported every single one of your contentions about the nature of the justice system and the expense of execution vs. life imprisonment amply. i don't know why i ever got frustrated trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
i've been back and forth with agreeing and opposing the death penalty. at the end of it all, if the person is 100% guilty and you have hard evidence that can't be argued with, put them to death. if there's a sliver of a chance the person didn't do it even though they're found guilty, put them in prison.
yup, this is very good argument. you have supported every single one of your contentions about the nature of the justice system and the expense of execution vs. life imprisonment amply. i don't know why i ever got frustrated trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
well, now that we've managed to finally agree on the facts, perhaps you can explain to me what you meant by this:
"and back to cost - as long as we're willing to pay for it, it's fine...i think it stinks"
you're telling me you'd rather pay more for an execution than it would cost for life imprisonment? the execution is worth the extra money? me, i'd rather have that tax money given back to me... the murderer isn't hurting anyone who doesn't deserve it in prison.
i've been back and forth with agreeing and opposing the death penalty. at the end of it all, if the person is 100% guilty and you have hard evidence that can't be argued with, put them to death. if there's a sliver of a chance the person didn't do it even though they're found guilty, put them in prison.
I suppose this depends on your theory of what a person is. Whether they are capable of having a capacity for good or evil, or whether those are circumstantial traits based on value judgments of society at large. I personally don't feel that humans consist of anything but matter strictly obeying the laws of thermodynamics. No person or animal is wholey responsible for their own fate. My understanding of psychology, sociology and neurology has led me to believe that the social dysfunction of one individual is as much the responsibility of their social environment as it is the responsibility of the individual. It's a causal system, but which came first, the society or the individual, clearly the society exacted first, it's influence on the individual. So who is to blame? No one. But we can all share in the responsibility, educate ourselves and work together to make society a more inviting place to all people, the result may be a surprising decrease in crime. Or we can maintain our selfish paradigms and externalize all problems.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i've been back and forth with agreeing and opposing the death penalty. at the end of it all, if the person is 100% guilty and you have hard evidence that can't be argued with, put them to death. if there's a sliver of a chance the person didn't do it even though they're found guilty, put them in prison.
humans have the ability to create hard evidence
many humans are mean
thus you never know
you okay with a few innocents being killed?
it has happened
and will continue to happen
well, now that we've managed to finally agree on the facts, perhaps you can explain to me what you meant by this:
"and back to cost - as long as we're willing to pay for it, it's fine...i think it stinks"
you're telling me you'd rather pay more for an execution than it would cost for life imprisonment? the execution is worth the extra money? me, i'd rather have that tax money given back to me... the murderer isn't hurting anyone who doesn't deserve it in prison.
here's an honest answer - my first post in this thread...i meant...but it was also meant to be a little funny too.
not thinking about all the appeals, etc, that go on, the logical answer would be kill 'em quick. researching on the net, i have found what you have stated to be true.
as i said, i wasn't thinking about all the appeals....just which was cheaper...i also said something like "box of ammo $15"...seems a lot cheaper than locking them away and paying for everything. by the way, that was supposed to be funny too.
"it stinks" was to the fact that the guilty can and do, tie up the system, put a drain on tax dollars, all the while getting to live after they have been sentenced to die.
here's an honest answer - my first post in this thread...i meant...but it was also meant to be a little funny too.
not thinking about all the appeals, etc, that go on, the logical answer would be kill 'em quick. researching on the net, i have found what you have stated to be true.
as i said, i wasn't thinking about all the appeals....just which was cheaper...i also said something like "box of ammo $15"...seems a lot cheaper than locking them away and paying for everything. by the way, that was supposed to be funny too.
"it stinks" was to the fact that the guilty can and do, tie up the system, put a drain on tax dollars, all the while getting to live after they have been sentenced to die.
i knew the $15 bullet thing was a joke, and it was funny at that. i've made worse myself round here. the women don't much like me.
as to the appeals, what do you see as the big benefit of execution? there are only a few options here:
1. keep it as it is and keep going with incredibly expensive executions rather than the cheaper life in prison. is it worth it? why?
2. drop the appeals process to make executions cheaper than life in prison. but since people are released from prison almost every month when it is found on appeal that they were actually innocent, this tactic is going to execute a lot of innocents. is it worth it? why?
3. abolish the death penalty and switch to life in prison with no parole. offenders don't get out of jail, ever, but they don't die either. is that not good enough? why not? what does execution add?
AFGHANISTAN, ALGERIA, BAHAMAS, BAHRAIN, BANGLADESH, BELARUS, BENIN, BOTSWANA, BRUNEI DARUSSALAM, BURKINA FASO, BURUNDI, CHINA, CONGO (Democratic Republic), EGYPT, GUINEA, GUYANA, INDIA, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRAQ, JAPAN, JORDAN, KAZAKSTAN, KENYA, KOREA (North), KOREA (South), KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAOS, LIBYA, MALAYSIA, MALI, MONGOLIA, MOROCCO, MYANMAR, NIGERIA, PAKISTAN, QATAR, SAUDI ARABIA, SINGAPORE, SOMALIA, SRI LANKA, SUDAN, SYRIA, TAIWAN, TANZANIA, THAILAND, TOGO, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, UGANDA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZAMBIA
Above is a list of countries that used the death penalty in 2006. I am curious as to what people for capital punishment have as a reason as to why the only developed industrialized nations on the list are the US and Japan? A lot of those nations are pretty scary places that I know I wouldn't want to live in.
AFGHANISTAN, ALGERIA, BAHAMAS, BAHRAIN, BANGLADESH, BELARUS, BENIN, BOTSWANA, BRUNEI DARUSSALAM, BURKINA FASO, BURUNDI, CHINA, CONGO (Democratic Republic), EGYPT, GUINEA, GUYANA, INDIA, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRAQ, JAPAN, JORDAN, KAZAKSTAN, KENYA, KOREA (North), KOREA (South), KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAOS, LIBYA, MALAYSIA, MALI, MONGOLIA, MOROCCO, MYANMAR, NIGERIA, PAKISTAN, QATAR, SAUDI ARABIA, SINGAPORE, SOMALIA, SRI LANKA, SUDAN, SYRIA, TAIWAN, TANZANIA, THAILAND, TOGO, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, UGANDA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZAMBIA
Above is a list of countries that used the death penalty in 2006. I am curious as to what people for capital punishment have as a reason as to why the only developed industrialized nations on the list are the US and Japan?
They sustained a developmental disorder. Oh you said "people for capital punishment", nevermind.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
AFGHANISTAN, ALGERIA, BAHAMAS, BAHRAIN, BANGLADESH, BELARUS, BENIN, BOTSWANA, BRUNEI DARUSSALAM, BURKINA FASO, BURUNDI, CHINA, CONGO (Democratic Republic), EGYPT, GUINEA, GUYANA, INDIA, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRAQ, JAPAN, JORDAN, KAZAKSTAN, KENYA, KOREA (North), KOREA (South), KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAOS, LIBYA, MALAYSIA, MALI, MONGOLIA, MOROCCO, MYANMAR, NIGERIA, PAKISTAN, QATAR, SAUDI ARABIA, SINGAPORE, SOMALIA, SRI LANKA, SUDAN, SYRIA, TAIWAN, TANZANIA, THAILAND, TOGO, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, UGANDA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZAMBIA
Above is a list of countries that used the death penalty in 2006. I am curious as to what people for capital punishment have as a reason as to why the only developed industrialized nations on the list are the US and Japan?
john wayne and ninjas.
don't get it? let me explain: we're bad ass motherfuckers and we don't mind spilling a little (or a lot) of blood to get our job done.
I think the U.S. is suffering from a developmental disorder. It's part of american culture that individual responsibility is paramount to collective responsibility. The United States is one of the only developed nations that rejects research into the efficacy of parental leave. Granting maternity leave that is insufficient for the development of a healthy child. In contrast to this, nations like Sweden offer ample maternity leave and high-quality government funded daycare services with specially trained caregivers.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I think the U.S. is suffering from a developmental disorder. It's part of american culture that individual responsibility is paramount to collective responsibility. The United States is one of the only developed nations that rejects research into the efficacy of parental leave. Granting maternity leave that is insufficient for the development of a healthy child. In contrast to this, nations like Sweden offer ample maternity leave and high-quality government funded daycare services with specially trained caregivers.
i don't know if it's a developmental disorder so much as an obsessive compulsive disorder. in america one thing counts and one thing only: profit. that's why maternity leave sucks here. it's all about the bottom line. nothing else matters. period.
We had an episode here in Canada about a year or so ago where the RCMP got called to a drug lair in the middle of butt f'k park. So they show up and the guy who was there, had a hard on for cops. He blows a couple of them (four) away, you know because of their job. So aside from the paranoid in you that says that people can be crooked. When you have a guy/girl and you know as in this case as he was the only person there, who did it. Put the goof to death. Easy as pie. Instead the asshat took his own life. Unfortunately we don't have the death penalty up here anymore. So if he didn't x himself, he would be able to free everything on my tax dollar. My tax dollar says kill him.
Hear that Bernardo. YOU SHOULD BE DEAD!!!! YOUR FUCKING WIFE TOO!!!
Actually Bernado can't hear you because he is locked in a tiny cell by himself with only an hour outside of it each day and very little human contact. And he is stuck there for the rest of his life alone with his thoughts. I am fine with the fact that part of my tax dollar goes to punishing him like this for every last minute of his life, the sweet relief of death is way more than that guy deserves.
i don't know if it's a developmental disorder so much as an obsessive compulsive disorder. in america one thing counts and one thing only: profit. that's why maternity leave sucks here. it's all about the bottom line. nothing else matters. period.
Right, but I think that was par for any industrialized nation. But since then others have developed beyond that into more socialized nations, excercising economic power for greater social benefits.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i don't know if it's a developmental disorder so much as an obsessive compulsive disorder. in america one thing counts and one thing only: profit. that's why maternity leave sucks here. it's all about the bottom line. nothing else matters. period.
So how does america profit from capital punishment?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Actually Bernado can't hear you because he is locked in a tiny cell by himself with only an hour outside of it each day and very little human contact. And he is stuck there for the rest of his life alone with his thoughts. I am fine with the fact that part of my tax dollar goes to punishing him like this for every last minute of his life, the sweet relief of death is way more than that guy deserves.
How do you know what Bernardo deserves? What his intentions were? His mental processes or anything about him except a particular behavioral example? One incident speaks not for the man's entirety. None of us are in a position to know with absolute knowledge what any other man deserves. Most of us don't even know what our selves deserve.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So how does america profit from capital punishment?
I just remarked the other day, I haven't seen Scubascott for awhile.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
humans have the ability to create hard evidence
many humans are mean
thus you never know
you okay with a few innocents being killed?
it has happened
and will continue to happen
what we really need to boycott is ole 810mbe
give me the percentages of people on death row because of doctored video of them killing someone, or 100 eyewitnesses that were all paid off by the prosecution.
you have video, you have multiple outstanding citizens that witnessed the crime, i'm gonna believe he/she did it. with the technology of today, any defense team could come up with someone that could prove a video was doctored if it in fact was.
and i'm not saying put every single person that's being tried for murder up for execution. hard irrefutable (sp?) evidence? death. circumstantial evidence? prison. that's how i feel. sorry if it offends you.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm sorry. If putting that nice human being in jail isn't revenge then what is it?
If the answer is justice. Then them getting the same as they dolled out is justice too.
Murder the murderer! Right. So if capital punishment is a deterrent - which it isn't - then why are executions not broadcast live across the nation on prime time t.v?
Sodium Pentathol is a barbituate that causes an anesthetic effect. In other words, it puts the recipient to sleep. It is commonly used in various types of surgery. There is no pain felt because the person is unconscious.
When this "cocktail" is used in lethal injections, SP is given first to anesthetize the person. Then the remaing drugs that eventually stop the heart are given.
The only trauma the criminal experiences is that of knowing their life is about to end. Mental anguish yes, physical pain no.
You didn't read the article Joseph Mengele. In many cases the man being executed wakes up.
Murder the murderer! Right. So if capital punishment is a deterrent - which it isn't - then why are executions not broadcast live across the nation on prime time t.v?
too many people would watch and eagerly wait to tune in next week.
Comments
I said a good argument.
No, I wasn't saying that at all. I suppose that post was a bit emotional and inflammatory. I was just what came to mind after reading the article on the first page. I find the very concept of capital punishment completely abhorrhent, but the lethal injection method seems to me to be a new level of sickness. Humane vengeance? If the sick bastards that came up with this feel that its unethical to inflict pain and suffering how the hell can they justify inflicting death?
I love dogs by the way. More than people sometimes. At least they're always honest.
-C Addison
yes, the emphasis on GOOD.
glad you think it's good....cause yr panties get in a fuckin knot every time i show up.
kiss me shitslinger
this forum is about debate. do you know what debate means? you struggled with the concept of an appeals process, so i'm not sure you do. it means you make points, and then you back them up. i figured you were here for political debate, since it so clearly says that is why this forum is here. apparently i was wrong. you prefer to make ridiculous claims and when someone calls you on your bullshit you offer such insightful responses as "yr wrong" and "see my penis." i'm sure your elementary school has a playground where you can put this stunning logical analysis to excellent use. but if you insist on trying to play with the grown ups, we will expect you to be able to think and debate like one. and thus i will call you out every time you make a dumbass claim with no substance.
great, my friend, i'm looking forward to it.
edit - oh yeah, thanks again for being condescending...yr a real piece of work...teach me, please, mr grownup
yup, this is very good argument. you have supported every single one of your contentions about the nature of the justice system and the expense of execution vs. life imprisonment amply. i don't know why i ever got frustrated trying to have an intelligent conversation with you.
:rolleyes:
~D.K.S.
me either, yr sooooooo far ahead of me
well, now that we've managed to finally agree on the facts, perhaps you can explain to me what you meant by this:
"and back to cost - as long as we're willing to pay for it, it's fine...i think it stinks"
you're telling me you'd rather pay more for an execution than it would cost for life imprisonment? the execution is worth the extra money? me, i'd rather have that tax money given back to me... the murderer isn't hurting anyone who doesn't deserve it in prison.
I suppose this depends on your theory of what a person is. Whether they are capable of having a capacity for good or evil, or whether those are circumstantial traits based on value judgments of society at large. I personally don't feel that humans consist of anything but matter strictly obeying the laws of thermodynamics. No person or animal is wholey responsible for their own fate. My understanding of psychology, sociology and neurology has led me to believe that the social dysfunction of one individual is as much the responsibility of their social environment as it is the responsibility of the individual. It's a causal system, but which came first, the society or the individual, clearly the society exacted first, it's influence on the individual. So who is to blame? No one. But we can all share in the responsibility, educate ourselves and work together to make society a more inviting place to all people, the result may be a surprising decrease in crime. Or we can maintain our selfish paradigms and externalize all problems.
humans have the ability to create hard evidence
many humans are mean
thus you never know
you okay with a few innocents being killed?
it has happened
and will continue to happen
what we really need to boycott is ole 810mbe
here's an honest answer - my first post in this thread...i meant...but it was also meant to be a little funny too.
not thinking about all the appeals, etc, that go on, the logical answer would be kill 'em quick. researching on the net, i have found what you have stated to be true.
as i said, i wasn't thinking about all the appeals....just which was cheaper...i also said something like "box of ammo $15"...seems a lot cheaper than locking them away and paying for everything. by the way, that was supposed to be funny too.
"it stinks" was to the fact that the guilty can and do, tie up the system, put a drain on tax dollars, all the while getting to live after they have been sentenced to die.
i knew the $15 bullet thing was a joke, and it was funny at that. i've made worse myself round here. the women don't much like me.
as to the appeals, what do you see as the big benefit of execution? there are only a few options here:
1. keep it as it is and keep going with incredibly expensive executions rather than the cheaper life in prison. is it worth it? why?
2. drop the appeals process to make executions cheaper than life in prison. but since people are released from prison almost every month when it is found on appeal that they were actually innocent, this tactic is going to execute a lot of innocents. is it worth it? why?
3. abolish the death penalty and switch to life in prison with no parole. offenders don't get out of jail, ever, but they don't die either. is that not good enough? why not? what does execution add?
Above is a list of countries that used the death penalty in 2006. I am curious as to what people for capital punishment have as a reason as to why the only developed industrialized nations on the list are the US and Japan? A lot of those nations are pretty scary places that I know I wouldn't want to live in.
They sustained a developmental disorder. Oh you said "people for capital punishment", nevermind.
john wayne and ninjas.
don't get it? let me explain: we're bad ass motherfuckers and we don't mind spilling a little (or a lot) of blood to get our job done.
i don't know if it's a developmental disorder so much as an obsessive compulsive disorder. in america one thing counts and one thing only: profit. that's why maternity leave sucks here. it's all about the bottom line. nothing else matters. period.
Actually Bernado can't hear you because he is locked in a tiny cell by himself with only an hour outside of it each day and very little human contact. And he is stuck there for the rest of his life alone with his thoughts. I am fine with the fact that part of my tax dollar goes to punishing him like this for every last minute of his life, the sweet relief of death is way more than that guy deserves.
Right, but I think that was par for any industrialized nation. But since then others have developed beyond that into more socialized nations, excercising economic power for greater social benefits.
So how does america profit from capital punishment?
-C Addison
How do you know what Bernardo deserves? What his intentions were? His mental processes or anything about him except a particular behavioral example? One incident speaks not for the man's entirety. None of us are in a position to know with absolute knowledge what any other man deserves. Most of us don't even know what our selves deserve.
I just remarked the other day, I haven't seen Scubascott for awhile.
give me the percentages of people on death row because of doctored video of them killing someone, or 100 eyewitnesses that were all paid off by the prosecution.
you have video, you have multiple outstanding citizens that witnessed the crime, i'm gonna believe he/she did it. with the technology of today, any defense team could come up with someone that could prove a video was doctored if it in fact was.
and i'm not saying put every single person that's being tried for murder up for execution. hard irrefutable (sp?) evidence? death. circumstantial evidence? prison. that's how i feel. sorry if it offends you.
~D.K.S.
beats me. violent catharsis? the same kind of smug self-righteous comfort we get from obsessing over celebrities and delighting in watching them fall.
Murder the murderer! Right. So if capital punishment is a deterrent - which it isn't - then why are executions not broadcast live across the nation on prime time t.v?
You didn't read the article Joseph Mengele. In many cases the man being executed wakes up.
too many people would watch and eagerly wait to tune in next week.