Abortions

redrock

riffrandall wrote:

I actually don't think this is true at all. I think you'd be really surprised how many women take it in stride. .

Wonder what kind of women you know. How can you be sure that they 'take it in stride'? Psychological effects of an abortion are very real, whether expressed or repressed. Not to mention the intervention itself. It's invasive and painful and messes up your body. The choice of having one may be easier for some, but a woman will suffer from it, one way or the other... Obviously for the man there will not be the pain of the intervention, but the pain of the decision - whether this be because of the loss of a potential life or because of empathy with the physical trauma of the woman (or both).

writersu

Byrnzie wrote:

That's just the thing though...we aren't together. It was just a fling really. I broke it off over a month ago because I knew she wasn't the one for me. She then txt's me one day to give me the news. Still, I told her I'd do everything I could to support her, but that I couldn't promise to commit myself 100% to her, or to promise that I'd always be in Korea. At first she said she still wanted to go ahead with it, but then she changed her mind a couple of days ago.
To be honest, I'm more against abortions than for them, but in some cases I can see how having a child could be damaging to the lives of those involved if the baby is born under the wrong circumstances and at the 'wrong time'.

Hey, you......

I have read these answers---or some of them anyway to your post and I am sorry that some people didn't get what you were asking for........I don't think you cared what people felt about abortion----everyone is entitled to their own choices, opinions, etc. You asked if anyone could identify with you and I know some people got that and did so........but you know, I am a Christian and NOT pro life

---

and for that I do not open that up to everyone because people love to hit me with Jesus, even those that don't get into Him, He's a convenient weapon people like to hold onto, you know?

But, life doesn't always open up and go by the "script" that we thought it would when we profess our view AS IF we know what we will never do what someone else is doing/saying/acting like etc. And when things we don't plan on happen in our life, all we can do is gather ourselves up, along with our situation and do the best we can do.

The bottom line here is that all we can ever do is the best we can right now. We can never know what will happen for sure in all of our life and we can't judge someone else because we can see their situation but will never know how their heart feels, what their head thinks, or what they are afraid of or dealing with. I don't care how honest we all are with each other; we don't even know ourselves 100% to think we know each other. I'm not sure what else to say, because I don't know what else you would like to ask about. So instead of risking the notion that I think I know everything, I will just say again that my thoughts are with you and you will do what you need to; you are a smart guy...........

riffrandall

redrock wrote:

Wonder what kind of women you know. How can you be sure that they 'take it in stride'? Psychological effects of an abortion are very real, whether expressed or repressed. Not to mention the intervention itself. It's invasive and painful and messes up your body. The choice of having one may be easier for some, but a woman will suffer from it, one way or the other... Obviously for the man there will not be the pain of the intervention, but the pain of the decision - whether this be because of the loss of a potential life or because of empathy with the physical trauma of the woman (or both).

I know the same kind of women you know. And when I say "take it in stride" I don't really mean that it's not a big deal to them- I just know a few women who have had more than one. To me it seems like if it were really the kind of thing that traumatized them or had lasting effects, they would've been more careful.
It's probably judgemental of me, but these are my sisters & my cousins that I'm close to and my best friend. So.. in that regard, it seems to me that these people do take it in stride.

And if you mean by the "type" of woman, none of these women fit into a certain mold, my sister is a physician, my best friend a real estate agent, and my cousin's a lawyer. So... I think you would be surprised if you really knew the history of the woman in the next cubicle/ car at the gas pump/ anchor on the news, etc..

_

riffrandall wrote:

And if you mean by the "type" of woman, none of these women fit into a certain mold, my sister is a physician, my best friend a real estate agent, and my cousin's a lawyer. So... I think you would be surprised if you really knew the history of the woman in the next cubicle/ car at the gas pump/ anchor on the news, etc..

I agree with this statement. Over 1/3 of women in the US will have an abortion at some point in their lives. I wish more of them knew this and didn't feel so isolated. But the stigma around it causes so many women to feel like they're the only ones who have had abortions - aside from those "other" types of girls, of course.

I work with a lot of women, ranging in age from around 30-70, with many of them being in their 50s. Since everyone knows I'm pro-choice, many, many of my coworkers have confided in me that they have had abortions. They all think they're they only ones in the office who have experienced this, and they all swear me to secrecy lest word should get out and the other ladies think less of them. I wish they knew how many of these women that they're afraid will judge them have actually been through the same thing and are feeling the same isolation and fear of judgement.

Byrnzie

writersu wrote:

Hey, you......

I have read these answers---or some of them anyway to your post and I am sorry that some people didn't get what you were asking for........I don't think you cared what people felt about abortion----everyone is entitled to their own choices, opinions, etc. You asked if anyone could identify with you and I know some people got that and did so........but you know, I am a Christian and NOT pro life

---

and for that I do not open that up to everyone because people love to hit me with Jesus, even those that don't get into Him, He's a convenient weapon people like to hold onto, you know?

But, life doesn't always open up and go by the "script" that we thought it would when we profess our view AS IF we know what we will never do what someone else is doing/saying/acting like etc. And when things we don't plan on happen in our life, all we can do is gather ourselves up, along with our situation and do the best we can do.

The bottom line here is that all we can ever do is the best we can right now. We can never know what will happen for sure in all of our life and we can't judge someone else because we can see their situation but will never know how their heart feels, what their head thinks, or what they are afraid of or dealing with. I don't care how honest we all are with each other; we don't even know ourselves 100% to think we know each other. I'm not sure what else to say, because I don't know what else you would like to ask about. So instead of risking the notion that I think I know everything, I will just say again that my thoughts are with you and you will do what you need to; you are a smart guy...........

Thanks. I guess I was just looking for input as I'd never really given the subject a great deal of thought before.

Heineken Helen

slightofjeff wrote:

Won't someone save the world?, the great and wise songwriter once asked.

Isn't it possible that the person who has been destined to save the world has already been conceived, and we aborted him or her as a fetus?

It would serve us right.

Look, there is a certain validity to "you run your body, let me run mine." I get that. I understand that side of the argument. But there is also a valid argument as to when life actually begins.

You obviously don't understand the meaning of the word 'destiny' then. If destiny DOES exist, nobody can change it. So if this kid WERE destined to change the world it would have been born in different circumstances.

And it's not all about 'your body my body'. Very few women have abortions cos they're gonna get fat or have to carry a baby for 9 months. There's a LOT more to it than that.

Heineken Helen

riffrandall wrote:

I actually don't think this is true at all. I think you'd be really surprised how many women take it in stride. I took my sister to the clinic a few years ago when she had one, and inside that clinic were women who came dressed as nurses; they had been there enough times so that they knew to dress in scrubs so the protesters outside the clinic would not hassle them as they walked in.

It SHOULD be difficult for both parties, unfortunately I am jaded enough to think that girls know it's an option so it makes it ok to be really careless & from what I've seen it's just inconvenient. I'm only speaking from what I've seen..not from experience, and not from any male's perspective.

There are agencies who help ya know. There are numbers to call if you have a crisis pregnancy. Perhaps some of these women were so afraid of the protesters (maybe they've even BEEN one at some stage) that somebody advised them this would be the best way to go about it. Although by dressing as a nurse, they were also putting their lives in danger. Did they tell ya they've had several and it doesn't bother them at all? Some people are very quick to make assumptions and judge others. I find it hard to believe there are very many women out there (I'm not saying they DON'T exist, but they would be a tiny minority) who take this in their stride.

Heineken Helen

Pegasus wrote:

..'nuff said..

the guy can always walk away..the gal can't..that's WHY it has to be OUR choice.. (and the morons that think it's 'easy' for the woman to choose can fuck off..and no thankfully, I've never had to make that choice.. but I'm glad I'd be able to)

Absolutely. In a perfect world, the guy and the girl would have equal choice... if I were ever in that position I WOULD tell him and I probably would have made my mind up. The ball is then in his court to convince me otherwise. If I feel convinced that we're gonna be equal partners in this, that would sway me towards keeping it. If I were made to feel I wouldn't have much support, well it's up to me alone.

SundaySilence

Byrnzie wrote:

I've been thinking about this question. I was wondering if there was a line that could be drawn from when it could be considered acceptable, to when it could be construed as 'murder'.
I'm not sure. I mean, every organism is alive, right? After 10 weeks can it be considered to be a baby? The thing begins forming the shape of a baby at an early stage. Here in Korea they consider a persons birthday to be the point of conception - which is another reason it must have been so hard on her yesterday, her being Korean.

What we value is not a beating heart, or the shape of a body. There are beating hearts being transplanted as we speak. But a beating heart is aquired from a body, not a person.

Life began a couple billion years ago. It is a continuous process. Simply being alive is not what we value. We swat a fly. We give no thought to living sperm drying out on kleenix. Most fertilized eggs don't come to term even without inducing abortion.

What we do value is the individual personality of life; a higher functioning which we elevate man over cows. What is it that makes an identical twin unique. It is not their unique heart, shape, or even DNA. It is their cognition and personality. Activity occuring in the mind.

Back to the beating heart. We procure a beating heart for transplant when there is no complex cerebral cortex activity. Brain function is how we determine end of life. Before the sixth month of gestation a fetus has no cerebral cortex activity, nothing on an EEG. An adult in this state cannot be murdered, or even killed. Only unplugged.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38c9bf810a70.htm

Jeanie

SundaySilence wrote:

What we value is not a beating heart, or the shape of a body. There are beating hearts being transplanted as we speak. But a beating heart is aquired from a body, not a person.

Life began a couple billion years ago. It is a continuous process. Simply being alive is not what we value. We swat a fly. We give no thought to living sperm drying out on kleenix. Most fertilized eggs don't come to term even without inducing abortion.

What we do value is the individual personality of life; a higher functioning which we elevate man over cows. What is it that makes an identical twin unique. It is not their unique heart, shape, or even DNA. It is their cognition and personality. Activity occuring in the mind.

Back to the beating heart. We procure a beating heart for transplant when there is no complex cerebral cortex activity. Brain function is how we determine end of life. Before the sixth month of gestation a fetus has no cerebral cortex activity, nothing on an EEG. An adult in this state cannot be murdered, or even killed. Only unplugged.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38c9bf810a70.htm

I would completely agree with this. We are not merely tissue and cells that are alive and therefore to be sanctified, but the sum total of our being is based on our experiences through life, our interaction with others, our response to stimuli, so many things that go into making up a person and individual. Recognizing that there is more to us than just a beating heart is a difficult thing for some to grasp but our heart is only part of who we are.