Abortions

MasterFramer

slightofjeff wrote:

My aunt adopted a kid from Russia. He's 7 years old now. I often wonder how life might be different, for all of us, if this kid's biological mother had simply had an abortion.

Um, she would have adopted another child that would have met the criteria... you all would have been in the same place you are now.

MasterFramer

Joe2TheRevenge wrote:

here's my opinion on the issue:

1. STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY BEDROOM

2. STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY DOCTOR'S OFFICE

3. DON'T TELL ME OR MY SIGNIFICANT OTHER WHAT TO DO WITH OUR LIVES

And why?

BECAUSE I DON'T MAKE YOUR DECISIONS FOR YOU.

Don't like abortions?...Don't have one. Love the idea of adoption?...Then adopt a couple kids.

It's very simple. Live as you choose, but don't expect others to follow your choices. Even if you're religious, keep in mind that a major principle of the bible is that we all have FREE WILL.

Our choices will be judged later, so don't hassle us while we're struggling to get though this life.

Thank you and goodnight.

Amen...

MasterFramer

slightofjeff wrote:

-- you can't kill something that has a heartbeat.

We are murdering by the thousands in Iraq, but that's ok cause it's for some abstract idea of "freedom" right?

And how about your great state of Texas? George bush is pro life but sent the most people to death any state has while he was in charge down there.

slightofjeff

MasterFramer wrote:

Um, she would have adopted another child that would have met the criteria... you all would have been in the same place you are now.

Yes, but what would have happened to this kid?

slightofjeff

MasterFramer wrote:

We are murdering by the thousands in Iraq, but that's ok cause it's for some abstract idea of "freedom" right?

And how about your great state of Texas? George bush is pro life but sent the most people to death any state has while he was in charge down there.

Killing innocent people always sucks. Every innocent bystander who dies in Iraq is one too many.

Killing guilty people, either in Iraq or via lethal injection, might be considered apples and oranges. Or maybe not.

All I know is that a fetus is about as innocent as it gets, and it's a shame to kill one just because you don't feel like pulling out.

MasterFramer

slightofjeff wrote:

Killing innocent people always sucks. Every innocent bystander who dies in Iraq is one too many.

Killing guilty people, either in Iraq or via lethal injection, might be considered apples and oranges. Or maybe not.

All I know is that a fetus is about as innocent as it gets, and it's a shame to kill one just because you don't feel like pulling out.

I agree with you man... but the choice HAS to be there for women. Making it illegal is not going to stop them from happening.

redrock

slightofjeff wrote:

Yes, but what would have happened to this kid?

There wouldn't have been one if the foetus had been aborted.

Abortion is always difficult for both parties. Obviously for the woman it is also an invasive procedure. Even if both concerned agree it is the best thing for a number of reasons, even if the baby is REALLY not wanted, it is still a very traumatic experience. There will be the guilt, the 'what ifs', etc. Eventually, this subsides.

slightofjeff

redrock wrote:

There wouldn't have been one if the foetus had been aborted.

Won't someone save the world?, the great and wise songwriter once asked.

Isn't it possible that the person who has been destined to save the world has already been conceived, and we aborted him or her as a fetus?

It would serve us right.

Look, there is a certain validity to "you run your body, let me run mine." I get that. I understand that side of the argument. But there is also a valid argument as to when life actually begins.

sweetpotato

will this topic never cease to draw people in? i couldn't believe, another abortion thread, yet here we are.

sometimes these threads sound like a who's on first? sketch, since both sides are convinced that they know what's going on while they can't even fathom what the other guy is saying.

it's a complicated issue, a personal issue, and nothing any of us says here is going to change that. this is something that i really believe will NEVER be resolved. it's just too polarizing.

sweetpotato

...wouldn't this poor child have been better off NOT being born?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixzmary_Brown

i can't even read or listen to the full story because it makes me insane with anger and hurt. if there is an afterlife, i hope this little one is being comforted and loved beyond all imagination. may she rest peacefully.

Dylan Stone

sweetpotato wrote:

...wouldn't this poor child have been better off NOT being born?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixzmary_Brown

i can't even read or listen to the full story because it makes me insane with anger and hurt. if there is an afterlife, i hope this little one is being comforted and loved beyond all imagination. may she rest peacefully.

After years of working in child welfare...it's almost impossible to not be pro-choice. I was before anyway..but...

Dylan Stone

MasterFramer wrote:

I agree with you man... but the choice HAS to be there for women. Making it illegal is not going to stop them from happening.

Safe abortions will always be accessible for rich people.

Back alleys, dirty rooms in people's homes, throwing one's self down stairs and (of course) coat hangers will always be options for everyone...

Dylan Stone

woops....

riffrandall

WTF ever happened to birth control? I mean, really.

I've seen women in my family & my girlfriends through more abortions than I care to mention. Most of those were the result of flings or drunken nights of laziness-

Do I think abortion should be safe & legal? Yes. But I also think there is a special place in hell for people who use it as birth control. I really do.

riffrandall

redrock wrote:

Abortion is always difficult for both parties.

I actually don't think this is true at all. I think you'd be really surprised how many women take it in stride. I took my sister to the clinic a few years ago when she had one, and inside that clinic were women who came dressed as nurses; they had been there enough times so that they knew to dress in scrubs so the protesters outside the clinic would not hassle them as they walked in.

It SHOULD be difficult for both parties, unfortunately I am jaded enough to think that girls know it's an option so it makes it ok to be really careless & from what I've seen it's just inconvenient. I'm only speaking from what I've seen..not from experience, and not from any male's perspective.

_

riffrandall wrote:

WTF ever happened to birth control? I mean, really.

I've seen women in my family & my girlfriends through more abortions than I care to mention. Most of those were the result of flings or drunken nights of laziness-

Do I think abortion should be safe & legal? Yes. But I also think there is a special place in hell for people who use it as birth control. I really do.

Birth control fails MUCH more than most people realize. The majority of women who have abortions use birth control. I think it is very, very rare in the United States for women to really use abortion as birth control. A woman who used abortion as birth control would have around 30 abortions in her lifetime. Have these women you refer to had that many abortions? And how can so many men not use birth control and then blame the women for getting pregnant and having abortions?

Pegasus

sweetpotato wrote:

will this topic never cease to draw people in? i couldn't believe, another abortion thread, yet here we are.

sometimes these threads sound like a who's on first? sketch, since both sides are convinced that they know what's going on while they can't even fathom what the other guy is saying.

it's a complicated issue, a personal issue, and nothing any of us says here is going to change that. this is something that i really believe will NEVER be resolved. it's just too polarizing.

..'nuff said..

the guy can always walk away..the gal can't..that's WHY it has to be OUR choice.. (and the morons that think it's 'easy' for the woman to choose can fuck off..and no thankfully, I've never had to make that choice.. but I'm glad I'd be able to)

Pegasus

scb wrote:

Birth control fails MUCH more than most people realize. The majority of women who have abortions use birth control. I think it is very, very rare in the United States for women to really use abortion as birth control. A woman who used abortion as birth control would have around 30 abortions in her lifetime. Have these women you refer to had that many abortions? And how can so many men not use birth control and then blame the women for getting pregnant and having abortions?

mmm..no..birth control fails yes, occasionally, but most abortions are not from birth control failure, but from lack of it.. (hell, we've all been caught in the heat of the moment.. but some are unlucky)

Urban Hiker

I had one when I was a teen. I felt instant relief. But, my upbringing probably had a lot to do with that. Mom always told us we would be out on our own if we got pregnant and she was very open with us on the abortion option. Insurance paid for it after all. :rolleyes:

FYI: Usually, I was very good about using birth control - But, then there was the very drunkin' one night stand. Oops.

In my later years I gave more thought to what I would do if my birth control failed. Abortion was still the best option, even when I married. I don't want kids and I didn't want to birth another child into this world with my family's genes. Hubby feels the same. I can't get pregnant now, so I don't have to worry.


I think it is a very individual experience, every person who goes through it will handle it differently. Even though mine was easy, I can understand why some have trouble with it. Hell, even my mom who seemed to be so for it had a moment of regret for me. As she held my hand in support, she said, "This could have been my first grandchild." WTF!!! :cool:


Good luck and take care.

_

Pegasus wrote:

mmm..no..birth control fails yes, occasionally, but most abortions are not from birth control failure, but from lack of it.

I guess it depends on how you define "occasionally". In the U.S., there are about 1500 abortions per year by women who had their tubes tied or whose partners had vasectomies. There are many, many more abortions by women who were on the pill, whose condom broke, etc. In my opinion, that's a lot.

When I say that most women who have abortions use birth control, I mean that more than 50% of women having abortions USE birth control - but not that they necessarily use it CORRECTLY or CONSISTENTLY 100% of the time.