one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist
that doesnt excuse their methods, but you have to remember there is more than one perspective. especially considering our military presence and "meddling" in the area. remember the reaction to the soviet (or communist) presence in the western hemisphere? we almost fucking nuked each other
It sounds like Rosie O'Donnel part deux is getting tired of the Democrats promising everything and delivering on nothing. People like Rosie O'Donnel part deux will never be convinced that any of our troops have died for anything other than a "facist corporate state". It makes you wonder how their sons and daughters even decide to go into the military. I'd like to know what cause or agenda Rosie O'Donnel part deux would consider worthy of dying for.
so i guess bush gets a free pass on that veto? he is the commander in chief, he pushed for this war, and now he wont end it. he is the "decider" after all. ok, now you can go back to blaming democrats for whatever you choose this week, sorry to interupt
and yes, this is obviously a war for petroleum and influence in the energy rich region. lets just be fucking honest folks. and if you think this shit is still about sadaam, wmd, or freedom your just a fucking idiot. end of story. time to stop being nice about that part.
and yes, this current war is certainly not a cause worth dying for. not even close, and if you think it is then sign up chief and shut the fuck up already.
sorry hhkc to get in your face, i actually do like you, but some of the shit your talking there is just bullshit. plain and simple
when you stop acting like a 9 year old we can talk.
but anyway, you think american isnt free? and you want to use the example of walking into a store and buying drugs? or fucking a hooker?
Why wouldn't that be a good example? You can buy weed in the Netherlands, a few European countries have very lenient laws about marijuana use... And many people consider that a freedom.
I remember a thread about some silly law which says you couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not quite sure exactly). That's not very free now, is it?
Why wouldn't that be a good example? You can buy weed in the Netherlands, a few European countries have very lenient laws about marijuana use... And many people consider that a freedom.
because american lawmakers voted and made it illegal. this is fully backed by the high majority of the american people. get it?
I remember a thread about some silly law which says you couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not quite sure exactly). That's not very free now, is it?
what dont you people understand. these laws are voted on by congress or local law makers. if ANYONE has a problem with these laws they can protest, write letters, pressure lawmakers for a change. but they dont, these laws are in places because thats what the american people want. (the majority)
when you stop acting like a 9 year old we can talk.
but anyway, you think american isnt free? and you want to use the example of walking into a store and buying drugs? or fucking a hooker?
You're saying they can't be called freedom fighters because they are not fighting for the freedom to do; however, you seem to disregard to the broader definition of freedom which can also mean freedom from. Now, Reagan called these people freedom fighters. Was he confused, or was he using a broader definition of the word "freedom" like Sheehan?
But if you want to talk strictly about freedom to do, then let's. Remember, though, I'm a deconstructionist at heart. Wait. I meant to say I'm a fucking 9 year old.
because american lawmakers voted and made it illegal. this is fully backed by the high majority of the american people. get it?
what dont you people understand. these laws are voted on by congress or local law makers. if ANYONE has a problem with these laws they can protest, write letters, pressure lawmakers for a change. but they dont, these laws are in places because thats what the american people want. (the majority)
What about when states want to legalize marijuana but the feds say "No" ? It's happened.
because american lawmakers voted and made it illegal. this is fully backed by the high majority of the american people. get it?
what dont you people understand. these laws are voted on by congress or local law makers. if ANYONE has a problem with these laws they can protest, write letters, pressure lawmakers for a change. but they dont, these laws are in places because thats what the american people want. (the majority)
Because one persons idea of freedom isn't the same as someone else's doesn't mean it isn't their 'freedom'. Many would argue that the U.S isn't a free country and that you only have the pretense of a Democracy.
My idea of freedom includes marijuana being legal. A lot of people feel the same way... The majority of the American people don't...
So people say the people in the Netherlands are more free than the people in the US (because they are free to buy weed). The point is Byrnzie was right there are different definitions of freedom... doesn't mean you or the US isn't free, though.
then write your to senator and tell him you want it legalized. I cant spend all day explaining to you how our government works.
I was providing an example, not an intent. But that's beside the point. Why is it that you believe freedom can only mean to do and not from? And, if it only means to do, why disregard instances where there is no freedom to do?
Why is it that you believe freedom can only mean to do and not from? And, if it only means to do, why disregard instances where there is no freedom to do?
Please explain how her son's name has been disgraced. Her son had a mother with principles who stood up for what she believed in. Perhaps you'd prefer a nation of servile morons, who are happy to continue watching their sons and daughters die in this bullshit war that is benefiting nobody but a handful of rich and powerful liars, and swindlers?
It's not that black and white. Her son served in the military, a voluntary military and gave his life. And instead of respecting his wish to serve, his mom is making a mockery out of it. I don't think this is something you are going to understand... no offense. Sheehan's actions were out of anger and pain, and she did nothing to honor her son's name.
Sorry if I'm speaking over your head; I am a rather precocious 9 year old, after all.
Let's break it down. You said that the insurgents in Iraq cannot be called freedom fighters, seemingly because they aren't fighting for freedom. By this, I assume you mean the freedom to do, i.e. freedom of action. But there is also the concept of freedom from, i.e freedom from kings, freedom from war, freedom from outside influence, freedom from.....whatever. Cindy Sheehan was obviously, to me at least, implying that the term "freedom fighters" refers to people fighting for freedom from outside influence - the same implication Ronald Reagan made when he called them freedom fighters (only that time it was freedom from the Soviet Union). So, why is it incorrect for Sheehan to use the Reagan definition of freedom fighters?
I hope someone takes her place ... Someone who is smart enough not to meet with people like Hugo Chavez to make their point. I feel bad for what happened to her son. I also feel like she really became quite a bit like those who got her son killed, however. Meeting with a human-rights abusing dictator was just childish and ignorant. What she was doing ceased to be meaningful protest at that point. I guess that's what emotional reasoning does to people, even well-meaning ones.
I wonder if she's bought her son a tombstone yet with the $250k she got from the gov't?
For the first year atleast..she hadn't. She's disgusting and giving people that are protesting with true intentions a bad name.
She did a lot of good, including holding the Democrats to the same standard she holds the Republicans.
And then she went and fucked up with the whole Chavez thing. Just ... Wow. What does she want America to be, exactly? I hope her vision doesn't look like Chavez's Venezuela.
I can't help to think that she has disgraced her son's name. It tears me apart to think after that kid got killed in combat he is more famous for his mother than his service. If I ever get killed in combat I hope my parents have enough sense NEVER to do something like that. She does make some valid points... especially this one
"Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months"
But I am glad to see her go, the only thing she was doing was defacing her son's name. He signed up, it was not like he was drafted.
wow. wow. she blames bush for the death of her son. she wants to make it known so others don't let bush kill their kids. how is that defacing her son?
Let's break it down. You said that the insurgents in Iraq cannot be called freedom fighters, seemingly because they aren't fighting for freedom. By this, I assume you mean the freedom to do, i.e. freedom of action. But there is also the concept of freedom from, i.e freedom from kings, freedom from war, freedom from outside influence, freedom from.....whatever. Cindy Sheehan was obviously, to me at least, implying that the term "freedom fighters" refers to people fighting for freedom from outside influence - the same implication Ronald Reagan made when he called them freedom fighters (only that time it was freedom from the Soviet Union). So, why is it incorrect for Sheehan to use the Reagan definition of freedom fighters?
terrorists are not freedom fighters. and I dont give a flying fuck what ronnie has to say about it..k?
terrorists are not freedom fighters. and I dont give a flying fuck what ronnie has to say about it..k?
Agreed. Anyone who uses the tactics that are routinely used in Iraq does not deserve to hide behind the term "freedom fighter". "Sectarian death warrior" might work better, except it sounds like something from a bad manga film. As might, you know, "terrorist". I think we'll just use that one.
wow. wow. she blames bush for the death of her son. she wants to make it known so others don't let bush kill their kids. how is that defacing her son?
Again, as I stated earlier this one is hard to tell someone about... you either understand it or you don't. Her son choose to join the army and he knew the risks. She wasn't very vocal about the war before her son died, just after. To me that loses lots of credibility. She didn't even put up a tombstone on his grave until a few weeks ago. I could just imagine having a friend killed in service and seeing his mom basically go crazy in protest, my first thought would be she is doing nothing to honor him. Her acts just come off as extremely selfish, she is saying her son basically died in vain. How is that NOT defacing her son?
So forget about Ronald Reagan. Are you saying that someone fighting for freedom from outside influence cannot be considered a freedom fighter?
Except that's not what a great many of the insurgents in Iraq are doing.
They are taking advantage of the U.S. presence to carry out sectarian violence, settle old scores, strengthen their own power base ... It hasn't been about fighting the Americans for a very long time.
Agreed. Anyone who uses the tactics that are routinely used in Iraq does not deserve to hide behind the term "freedom fighter". "Sectarian death warrior" might work better, except it sounds like something from a bad manga film. As might, you know, "terrorist". I think we'll just use that one.
So I'll ask you the same question. Are you saying that someone fighting for freedom from outside influence cannot be considered a freedom fighter? Is it because the term "freedom fighter" implies something positive? Because as I see it, it's a neutral term.
Those crazy ladies at Mothers Against Drunk drivers are shifty as well. Didnt hear a peep from them until they lost a relative to a drunk driving death. Fucking camera hogs.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
So I'll ask you the same question. Are you saying that someone fighting for freedom from outside influence cannot be considered a freedom fighter? Is it because the term "freedom fighter" implies something positive? Because as I see it, it's a neutral term.
Maybe it IS a neutral term, but as I just said, I don't think it is accurate to say that "freedom from outside influence" is a major motive of the Iraqi insurgency. In fact, that whole term "insurgency" is probably no longer an accurate descriptor.
"Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives.
That just makes me sad....to the point where i want to cry on the inside. How did we get to this point as humans where we don't care about our family as a standpoint from the human race, where everyone has to point and call names, and everything has to be "the good side" or "the bad side?"
That just makes me sad....to the point where i want to cry on the inside. How did we get to this point as humans where everyone has to point and call names, and everything has to be "the good side" or "the bad side?"
:(
She uses as many labels as her opponents do. It IS sad. Everyone is caught up in the same stupid dance.
Comments
that doesnt excuse their methods, but you have to remember there is more than one perspective. especially considering our military presence and "meddling" in the area. remember the reaction to the soviet (or communist) presence in the western hemisphere? we almost fucking nuked each other
so i guess bush gets a free pass on that veto? he is the commander in chief, he pushed for this war, and now he wont end it. he is the "decider" after all. ok, now you can go back to blaming democrats for whatever you choose this week, sorry to interupt
and yes, this is obviously a war for petroleum and influence in the energy rich region. lets just be fucking honest folks. and if you think this shit is still about sadaam, wmd, or freedom your just a fucking idiot. end of story. time to stop being nice about that part.
and yes, this current war is certainly not a cause worth dying for. not even close, and if you think it is then sign up chief and shut the fuck up already.
sorry hhkc to get in your face, i actually do like you, but some of the shit your talking there is just bullshit. plain and simple
Why wouldn't that be a good example? You can buy weed in the Netherlands, a few European countries have very lenient laws about marijuana use... And many people consider that a freedom.
I remember a thread about some silly law which says you couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not quite sure exactly). That's not very free now, is it?
naděje umírá poslední
what dont you people understand. these laws are voted on by congress or local law makers. if ANYONE has a problem with these laws they can protest, write letters, pressure lawmakers for a change. but they dont, these laws are in places because thats what the american people want. (the majority)
But if you want to talk strictly about freedom to do, then let's. Remember, though, I'm a deconstructionist at heart. Wait. I meant to say I'm a fucking 9 year old.
My idea of freedom includes marijuana being legal. A lot of people feel the same way... The majority of the American people don't...
So people say the people in the Netherlands are more free than the people in the US (because they are free to buy weed). The point is Byrnzie was right there are different definitions of freedom... doesn't mean you or the US isn't free, though.
naděje umírá poslední
this makes no sense.
It's not that black and white. Her son served in the military, a voluntary military and gave his life. And instead of respecting his wish to serve, his mom is making a mockery out of it. I don't think this is something you are going to understand... no offense. Sheehan's actions were out of anger and pain, and she did nothing to honor her son's name.
For the first year atleast..she hadn't. She's disgusting and giving people that are protesting with true intentions a bad name.
Sorry if I'm speaking over your head; I am a rather precocious 9 year old, after all.
Let's break it down. You said that the insurgents in Iraq cannot be called freedom fighters, seemingly because they aren't fighting for freedom. By this, I assume you mean the freedom to do, i.e. freedom of action. But there is also the concept of freedom from, i.e freedom from kings, freedom from war, freedom from outside influence, freedom from.....whatever. Cindy Sheehan was obviously, to me at least, implying that the term "freedom fighters" refers to people fighting for freedom from outside influence - the same implication Ronald Reagan made when he called them freedom fighters (only that time it was freedom from the Soviet Union). So, why is it incorrect for Sheehan to use the Reagan definition of freedom fighters?
http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/06/05/cindy-sheehan-snopes-and-the-tombstone-and-one-father-who-made-a-different-choice/
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
She did a lot of good, including holding the Democrats to the same standard she holds the Republicans.
And then she went and fucked up with the whole Chavez thing. Just ... Wow. What does she want America to be, exactly? I hope her vision doesn't look like Chavez's Venezuela.
we all have our flaws, yours just happy to shine brighter then others. dont let it get you down.
terrorists are not freedom fighters. and I dont give a flying fuck what ronnie has to say about it..k?
Agreed. Anyone who uses the tactics that are routinely used in Iraq does not deserve to hide behind the term "freedom fighter". "Sectarian death warrior" might work better, except it sounds like something from a bad manga film. As might, you know, "terrorist". I think we'll just use that one.
Again, as I stated earlier this one is hard to tell someone about... you either understand it or you don't. Her son choose to join the army and he knew the risks. She wasn't very vocal about the war before her son died, just after. To me that loses lots of credibility. She didn't even put up a tombstone on his grave until a few weeks ago. I could just imagine having a friend killed in service and seeing his mom basically go crazy in protest, my first thought would be she is doing nothing to honor him. Her acts just come off as extremely selfish, she is saying her son basically died in vain. How is that NOT defacing her son?
Except that's not what a great many of the insurgents in Iraq are doing.
They are taking advantage of the U.S. presence to carry out sectarian violence, settle old scores, strengthen their own power base ... It hasn't been about fighting the Americans for a very long time.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Maybe it IS a neutral term, but as I just said, I don't think it is accurate to say that "freedom from outside influence" is a major motive of the Iraqi insurgency. In fact, that whole term "insurgency" is probably no longer an accurate descriptor.
That just makes me sad....to the point where i want to cry on the inside. How did we get to this point as humans where we don't care about our family as a standpoint from the human race, where everyone has to point and call names, and everything has to be "the good side" or "the bad side?"
:(
She uses as many labels as her opponents do. It IS sad. Everyone is caught up in the same stupid dance.