Interesting thought I had.

PJammin'

Ahnimus wrote:

I can do what I will: I can, if I will, give everything I have to the poor and thus become poor myself — if I will! But I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have much too much power over me for me to be able to. On the other hand, if I had a different character, even to the extent that I were a saint, then I would be able to will it. But then I could not keep from willing it, and hence I would have to do so.

– Arthur Schopenhauer

[A]s little as a ball on a billiard table can move before receiving an impact, so little can a man get up from his chair before being drawn or driven by a motive. But then his getting up is as necessary and inevitable as the rolling of a ball after the impact. And to expect that anyone will do something to which absolutely no interest impels them is the same as to expect that a piece of wood shall move toward me without being pulled by a string.

– Arthur Schopenhauer

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.(Colossians 2:8)

it's too bad many people will believe you. at this rate you won't be getting into the kingdom of heaven, but the worst part is your deceiving others who read your posts, and you may shut them out as well.

PJammin'

Ahnimus wrote:

In other words you don't have an answer. Will is the fundamental force that causes our behavior/beliefs if you can't explain it, then you can't expect people to use it in your way.

oh, believe me, i HAVE the answers. i don't need to give someone the answer who doesn't believe. my focus isn't on you, mr. ahnimus. your heart is hardened. hopefully, some of my words have at least peaked the interest of others who will seek God out for themselves. God has ALL the answers, and you'll find them if you look.

Binaural

PJammin' wrote:

God has ALL the answers, and you'll find them if you look.

Where should we look? Inbetween the bodies of the women massacred during the churches "witch hunts"? Should we look in the pockets of the vatican that are filled wih money that could help the starving across the world? SHould we look in the backrooms of churches where priests fuck children in secret? Should we look between the graves of slaves whom the church decided to abandon in their stance of "non involvment" or perhaps the graves of the jewish peoples of Europe slaughtered by the nazi's where the church took the same stance? Should we look in these places? Im sure you'll not find the answer you think.

soulsinging

PJammin' wrote:

well, you have every right to challenge the ones who are hateful and prideful. i'd challenge that too. people just make God's rules out to be burdensome. i don't think it's too hard to:

1. Believe in Christ.
2. Love your neighbor.

you may not think Christianity is for you, that's fine. but if you're wrong, you'll have to live with the consequences. hey, it's YOUR life, right? live it up.

1. is a total guess. you could insert allah, atman, bramin, buddha, or anyone else in there. again, why is your conception of god more relevant? the fact that your god is so vain and petty is a huge reason i rank christianity as less compelling than many other religions. the god i believe in doesn't give a flying fuck who you worship or what name you call him or what book you read abotu it. as long as you're tuned in.

soulsinging

PJammin' wrote:

it's remained upon loving HIM and not loving someone else who doesn't even have a care about you. lets say you have 3 children. 2 of them are upstanding and one of them puts you through hell. the one who puts you through hell listens to someone else who he considers a parental figure and convinces him to kill your other two children. i bet you're going to leave a lot in your will to him, huh.

i would cut them out for committing murder, not for turning their back on me. likewise, i would expect god to bar hitler from heaven for murder, not pardon him just becos he said he believed in jesus while he murdered. i would not expect god to bar ghandi from heaven becos he rejected the bible and instead found his own way to worship god and bring peace and love into the world. likewise, if a child of mine raped and murdered all while saying he loved me, i would be hard pressed to keep them in the will or believe they truly did. one's actions speak far louder than one's words. a hindu who acts like jesus has more value than a christian who acts like hitler. if you understand god to be the opposite, to reject ghandi becos he picked the wrong religion but accept hitler becos he believed in jesus, then i am absolutely convinced your religion and beliefs are corrupt and twisted.

Jeremy1012

soulsinging wrote:

1. is a total guess. you could insert allah, atman, bramin, buddha, or anyone else in there. again, why is your conception of god more relevant? the fact that your god is so vain and petty is a huge reason i rank christianity as less compelling than many other religions. the god i believe in doesn't give a flying fuck who you worship or what name you call him or what book you read abotu it. as long as you're tuned in.

the amount of times I have said this to christians, my mother being one, is unreal. especially since they always ignore what is a good point. I'm glad I don't believe in a god because I'd hate to be one of these self righteous pricks who can't accept that maybe they sided with the wrong team. case in point, my mother's derision for jehovah's witnesses. she dismisses them as cult. what the hell does she think christianity is?

bear in mind that I say these things to her in good-humour, seeing as she is my mum and obviously I love her in spite of her obvious narrow-mindedness (and before you say that I'm narrow-minded too, unlike christians, I accept that I might be wrong but I still believe that I'm not)

PJammin'

catefrances wrote:

oh no please, let's talk now.

yeah, lets talk; but it seems that I'M the one who's doing most of the talking. you don't even put your OWN beliefs out on the line. i don't even KNOW how you explain the creation and so forth. at least soulsinging gave me his views, and i appreciated him taking the time to do that. you, on the other hand, come in here and there and make your little comments and that's the extent of it.

I WOULD DIE FOR MY CHILDREN. i wouldn't send my only begotten son to do it. I would do it.

you fail to understand the scriptures, cate. Jesus and The Father are ONE. the gentlemen who quoted you first gave you a respectable answer. if God would show Himself to you He would blow your mortal body away.

my love for MY children is greater than any love i have ever felt. and greater than any love i will ever feel. NO ONE loves my children more than ME. NO ONE. is that arrogance?

yes, it's pride AND arrogance. that's the thing, you have that love for YOUR children. do you have that same love for another child? i doubt it. you don't have the perfect love of God. God loves your neighbor's children just as much as YOUR children. i bet you don't love your neighbors children as much as your own.

No, it is truth. and NO ONE would be prepared to sacrifice more for MY children than ME.

ultimately, they are God's children. you don't even know how they were formed in your womb. God blessed you with them and you're their caretaker on this earth. but you don't believe that, so what can i say.

your choice is to believe in a God. my choice is to believe in myself.

i agree with that. you control your own life, don't you????? believe in what you want. although, you don't even know where you came from or where your going. you're a gutsy girl.

every day i am reminded of how strong i am and how strong i continue to be despite the overwhelming urge i have not to be here.

i honestly feel for you, cate. i'm sorry. i hope you have many close friends in your area to support how you feel.

if MY children choose not to respect me or choose not to listen to me, that is their choice. I will not disown them, i will love them. I have unconditional love for my children regardless of their actions.

God feels the same way. He longs for people to come back to Him so together they can rejoice. i think i need to read the prodigal son again.

every good and bad choice i have ever made or will make is MY responsibility. I do not put it onto someone else, deity or human. don't sit there and tell me how hard done by God is. i don't care. he is intangible to me. and always will be.

you SHOULD take responsibility, they're YOUR choices. also, take my words how you want, i'm sharing my faith on this board. you can do the same, but you choose not to. finally, God can be intangible to you, and He can remain that way, but i personally wouldn't be surprised if He brings you down to your knees in your life. time will tell. much love, cate.

PJammin'

Binaural wrote:

Where should we look? Inbetween the bodies of the women massacred during the churches "witch hunts"? Should we look in the pockets of the vatican that are filled wih money that could help the starving across the world? SHould we look in the backrooms of churches where priests fuck children in secret? Should we look between the graves of slaves whom the church decided to abandon in their stance of "non involvment" or perhaps the graves of the jewish peoples of Europe slaughtered by the nazi's where the church took the same stance? Should we look in these places? Im sure you'll not find the answer you think.

i don't believe Christ taught that, but YOU KNOW and I KNOW the feelings and thoughts behind your posts. someone else can choose to answer your questions.

Binaural

PJammin' wrote:

i don't believe Christ taught that, but YOU KNOW and I KNOW the feelings and thoughts behind your posts. someone else can choose to answer your questions.

No of course Christ didnt teach those things, he never said it was ok but if you read between the lines the implication I was making was that jesus is an excuse used to justiy this horseshit and that the whole concept of religion is nothing more than a means o perpetuate hatred, genocide, intolerance and supression of freedom. Oh and nice touch choosing not to adress these points, cause thats what every christian says, "well jesus didn't teach these things, its just a few bad apples".

PJammin'

soulsinging wrote:

1. is a total guess. you could insert allah, atman, bramin, buddha, or anyone else in there. again, why is your conception of god more relevant? the fact that your god is so vain and petty is a huge reason i rank christianity as less compelling than many other religions. the god i believe in doesn't give a flying fuck who you worship or what name you call him or what book you read abotu it. as long as you're tuned in.

i believe it's not:

if you want the answer you'll have to look it up:

Romans 1:20-22

just don't believe, it's as simple as that. just believe in your God. i can accept you feeling that way.

PJammin'

Binaural wrote:

No of course Christ didnt teach those things, he never said it was ok but if you read between the lines the implication I was making was that jesus is an excuse used to justiy this horseshit and that the whole concept of religion is nothing more than a means o perpetuate hatred, genocide, intolerance and supression of freedom. Oh and nice touch choosing not to adress these points, cause thats what every christian says, "well jesus didn't teach these things, its just a few bad apples".

you're right, for some people it's a way to accomplish their agenda. but we know the truth, don't we. i don't worry about them, God will take care of them in His own way. i live my life.

PJammin'

soulsinging wrote:

i would cut them out for committing murder, not for turning their back on me. likewise, i would expect god to bar hitler from heaven for murder, not pardon him just becos he said he believed in jesus while he murdered. i would not expect god to bar ghandi from heaven becos he rejected the bible and instead found his own way to worship god and bring peace and love into the world. likewise, if a child of mine raped and murdered all while saying he loved me, i would be hard pressed to keep them in the will or believe they truly did. one's actions speak far louder than one's words. a hindu who acts like jesus has more value than a christian who acts like hitler. if you understand god to be the opposite, to reject ghandi becos he picked the wrong religion but accept hitler becos he believed in jesus, then i am absolutely convinced your religion and beliefs are corrupt and twisted.

what you fail to understand is you're basically DENYING the scourging and crucification of GOD. if you're serving Buddha, then you're serving something that is NOT God, and denying God's life, death, and resurrection for His own creation. it's really not that hard to come to grips with. in my case, anyway.

deadmosquito

ForestBrain wrote:

Do you really want to know? I'll tell you. I think people can try to get rid of certain things, such as alcoholism, and it still defeats them because they didn't do what they should have done. I've known some gay people that turned to God , truly, and yeah, they struggled and went through hell, but they kept to it and prayed and fasted and sought God and overcame their problem. I'm certainly not perfect, but I struggle every day to do what I know is right. Don't get ticked off at me, I'm not the one who said homosexuality is an abomination. I cannot deny what I know and what I've been through. I don't hate homosexuals, but I hate what they do.
I don't picket, I don't protest. I just live my life and mind my own business. You people sound like you have so little to do, that you go around looking for arguments. If God says doing something is going to send my soul to hell, then I'm going to do my best not to do it. Maybe you should stop and think about that. Do you actually want to go to hell? Am I wrong for not wanting people to go to hell? I don't go to church, I don't go door-to-door. I don't even mention my beliefs unless somebody directly asks me, or I need to explain myself on something.
This isn't about me hating, it's the opposite. I don't want to see people go to hell. I know without a doubt it exists, I know without a doubt Satan's greatest achievement is making people believe he doesn't exist.
A HUGE problem I see all of these so-called Christians. They've made people bitter against Christians, which stinks for people who actually are real Christians, because they get thrown into the same lump. My guide for life is what the Bible says, and if some of you believe it's an outdated story book written my man, then fine. But I warn you, do NOT speak against it. It's not me you're going to have to answer to, it's God.

in the bible, where god calls homosexuality an abomination, how do you know that some scribe who translated the bible or even just copied it to produce another copy didn't simply enter that line on his own and it got accepted as god's word?

PJammin'

deadmosquito wrote:

in the bible, where god calls homosexuality an abomination, how do you know that some scribe who translated the bible or even just copied it to produce another copy didn't simply enter that line on his own and it got accepted as god's word?

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; KNOWING this FIRST, that NO PROPHECY is of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, for prophecy NEVER came by the WILL OF MAN, but the HOLY MEN OF GOD spoke as they were moved by THE HOLY SPIRIT.(2 Peter 19-21)

God's word is perfect, and "I" accept it.

jeffbr

PJammin' wrote:

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; KNOWING this FIRST, that NO PROPHECY is of ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, for prophecy NEVER came by the WILL OF MAN, but the HOLY MEN OF GOD spoke as they were moved by THE HOLY SPIRIT.(2 Peter 19-21)

God's word is perfect, and "I" accept it.

Classic. Using a source to attempt to prove the valididty of itself.

This book is true because it says it is.

PJammin'

jeffbr wrote:

Classic. Using a source to attempt to prove the valididty of itself.

This book is true because it says it is.

this book is true because it's God's Word and it's also credited as a historical document.

Ahnimus

PJammin' wrote:

oh, believe me, i HAVE the answers. i don't need to give someone the answer who doesn't believe. my focus isn't on you, mr. ahnimus. your heart is hardened. hopefully, some of my words have at least peaked the interest of others who will seek God out for themselves. God has ALL the answers, and you'll find them if you look.

You don't have an answer and I doubt you understand the question. So you judge me.

Ahnimus

PJammin' wrote:

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.(Colossians 2:8)

it's too bad many people will believe you. at this rate you won't be getting into the kingdom of heaven, but the worst part is your deceiving others who read your posts, and you may shut them out as well.

Oh, yeah, look out for reason. Watch that logic it's the work of the devil!

Ahnimus

PJammin' wrote:

this book is true because it's God's Word and it's also credited as a historical document.

Circular Logic, God exists because he says he exists. Such as red is red because red is red.

deadnothingbetter

Ahnimus wrote:

If God says do this or go to hell...

well, see that's what i am trying to make you understand that the bible does not say this. he is not a black and white God. you can sin and sin and sin and sin but God's love will still accept you. and now to avoid every other confusion let me make this clear. the only way you can be justified is through jesus blood because he is the one who has done our errors right. is that to say that we should keep doing wrong? no. that is why it's required to have faith in Christ so that we will no longer live to sin but live to goodness.