Why is everyone bashing Christians for not tollerating sodomy, yet turn their head away from these fundamentalist Muslims when they outright murder a homosexual in their country? I guess that's not politically correct..
"It's not that liberals know nothing. It's that what they do know isn't so."
Ronaldus Magnus
first, under the heading The main question: How do we read the Bible?
he says "It is not clear whether 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 refer to the "passive" and "active" partners in homosexual relationships, or to homosexual and heterosexual male prostitutes. In short, it is unclear whether the issue is homosexuality alone, or promiscuity and "sex-for-hire."
it is clear...
The apostle Paul was honest and forthright in speaking about homosexuality. This is what he said, as recorded at 1*Corinthians 6:9-11, according to the New International Version: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes [Greek: malakos] nor homosexual offenders [Greek: arsenokoites] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.”
“What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes [“male prostitutes,” New International Version; “effeminate,” King James Version], nor men who lie with men [“sodomites,” Jerusalem Bible; “homosexual perverts,” Today’s English Version], nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.”
Malakos is drawn from the root word “soft.” Metaphorically it means “effeminate,” and ‘in this bad sense’ it refers to a practice of forms of sexual lewdness, as W. E. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words points out. Interestingly, malakia is modern Greek for “masturbation.”
Arsenokoites is used again by Paul in writing to Timothy at 1*Timothy 1:10. Translations naturally vary in their renderings—“homosexuals” (Living Bible), “sodomites” (A New Translation of the Bible by James Moffatt) and “perverts” (The New English Bible) by way of example. There is no doubt that the early Christians took such deviations of homosexuality and lesbianism very seriously. A concluding reference to Paul’s writings, this time to the Christians in Rome, explains why.
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”—Rom. 1:26, 27, “New International Version.”
The much-disputed Church of England report Homosexual Relationships comments about this as follows: “What Paul means by ‘unnatural’ is ‘unnatural’ to mankind in God’s creation pattern. All homosexual behaviour is a divergence from God’s creation scheme and, in the words of one writer, ‘when set in the context of creation, all homosexual relations are unnatural relations’.”
The report concludes: “What evidence there is seems clearly to show condemnation of homosexual behaviour. For many, this will settle the matter. They will hold that the Bible so plainly indicates the divine disapproval of such behaviour that it must be wrong in all circumstances, and especially so for Christians, who recognize the Bible as an inspired collection of writings which gives authoritative guidance for the conduct of human life.”
The Holy Scriptures are quite clear. Although many seek to justify the homosexual way of life, the Scriptural facts speak for themselves.
so Paul was aware of what was going on, contrary to the headings Homosexuality and the New Testament and Paul thinks that everyone is straight.
remember, Paul was an inspired man.
i'll get to those points another time, to list all explanations right now would be too long...and i want to talk some PJ anyway.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
first, under the heading The main question: How do we read the Bible?
he says "It is not clear whether 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 refer to the "passive" and "active" partners in homosexual relationships, or to homosexual and heterosexual male prostitutes. In short, it is unclear whether the issue is homosexuality alone, or promiscuity and "sex-for-hire."
it is clear...
The apostle Paul was honest and forthright in speaking about homosexuality. This is what he said, as recorded at 1*Corinthians 6:9-11, according to the New International Version: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes [Greek: malakos] nor homosexual offenders [Greek: arsenokoites] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.”
“What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes [“male prostitutes,” New International Version; “effeminate,” King James Version], nor men who lie with men [“sodomites,” Jerusalem Bible; “homosexual perverts,” Today’s English Version], nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom.”
Malakos is drawn from the root word “soft.” Metaphorically it means “effeminate,” and ‘in this bad sense’ it refers to a practice of forms of sexual lewdness, as W. E. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words points out. Interestingly, malakia is modern Greek for “masturbation.”
Arsenokoites is used again by Paul in writing to Timothy at 1*Timothy 1:10. Translations naturally vary in their renderings—“homosexuals” (Living Bible), “sodomites” (A New Translation of the Bible by James Moffatt) and “perverts” (The New English Bible) by way of example. There is no doubt that the early Christians took such deviations of homosexuality and lesbianism very seriously. A concluding reference to Paul’s writings, this time to the Christians in Rome, explains why.
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”—Rom. 1:26, 27, “New International Version.”
The much-disputed Church of England report Homosexual Relationships comments about this as follows: “What Paul means by ‘unnatural’ is ‘unnatural’ to mankind in God’s creation pattern. All homosexual behaviour is a divergence from God’s creation scheme and, in the words of one writer, ‘when set in the context of creation, all homosexual relations are unnatural relations’.”
The report concludes: “What evidence there is seems clearly to show condemnation of homosexual behaviour. For many, this will settle the matter. They will hold that the Bible so plainly indicates the divine disapproval of such behaviour that it must be wrong in all circumstances, and especially so for Christians, who recognize the Bible as an inspired collection of writings which gives authoritative guidance for the conduct of human life.”
The Holy Scriptures are quite clear. Although many seek to justify the homosexual way of life, the Scriptural facts speak for themselves.
so Paul was aware of what was going on, contrary to the headings Homosexuality and the New Testament and Paul thinks that everyone is straight.
remember, Paul was an inspired man.
i'll get to those points another time, to list all explanations right now would be too long...and i want to talk some PJ anyway.
With all due respect, of course, you've done what I hoped you'd do. That word 'arsenokoites' - this essay states (and don't get me wrong, I've been a theology student, but didn't do Greek) that no-one truly knows what this word means. Wink believes that it's incorrectly translated 'homosexuality', but more likely may mean homosexual rape or, as he calls it, the practice of hiring and abusing 'call-boys'. He questions whether, if Paul means homosexuality per se in these examples, why he didn't use the word 'homophilia'.
Don't get me wrong. I'm really sympathetic to your views, and until very shortly ago, would have said the same thing. And I still don't 'disagree', I'm just trying to learn more through discussion.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Well no, being a Christian means accepting people for who they are and, if they are leading sinful lives, helping them lovingly to change - therefore helping them to be different, the person who they are not at the moment, but are trying to become. Jesus rarely let sinful people stay exactly as they were.
That said, whether Christians should be anti-gay is a seperate issue. People assume Christians are anti-gay because, well, loads of them are. It's an unfortunate truth, but it is the truth. My question was whether Christians should view homosexuality as 'sinful' at all.
It's specifically a question for Christians, really, since obviously the majority of the board will view homosexuality as completely natural and OK with them.
Jesus was chastized because he kept company with whores; theives; and murderers. but Jesus taught the proper path by example. not by words. like my grandfather used to say; words are like farts; they disappear in the wind.
i don't know anyone who thinks homosexuality is natural. that's almost laughable. natural is a man and woman procreating new life. i'm not saying i'm anti-gay; but i don't view it as natural. ffor a hetro man to say it's natural would be for him to say he'd let another man have anal sex with him because it would be natural. if you're gay you think it's natural.
as to your question; christians, and everyone else is allowed their own opinion and have the right to view it as anything they want. i think it's sinful the way people treat our planet. and i have every right to that opinion.
Jesus was chastized because he kept company with whores; theives; and murderers. but Jesus taught the proper path by example. not by words. like my grandfather used to say; words are like farts; they disappear in the wind.
i don't know anyone who thinks homosexuality is natural. that's almost laughable. natural is a man and woman procreating new life. i'm not saying i'm anti-gay; but i don't view it as natural. ffor a hetro man to say it's natural would be for him to say he'd let another man have anal sex with him because it would be natural. if you're gay you think it's natural.
as to your question; christians, and everyone else is allowed their own opinion and have the right to view it as anything they want. i think it's sinful the way people treat our planet. and i have every right to that opinion.
Of course you have, I don't think I said anything otherwise. Also, you're right, perhaps 'natural' wasn't the best word I could have used. And I like your grandfather's analogy; he, and you, are right.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
With all due respect, of course, you've done what I hoped you'd do. That word 'arsenokoites' - this essay states (and don't get me wrong, I've been a theology student, but didn't do Greek) that no-one truly knows what this word means. Wink believes that it's incorrectly translated 'homosexuality', but more likely may mean homosexual rape or, as he calls it, the practice of hiring and abusing 'call-boys'. He questions whether, if Paul means homosexuality per se in these examples, why he didn't use the word 'homophilia'.
Don't get me wrong. I'm really sympathetic to your views, and until very shortly ago, would have said the same thing. And I still don't 'disagree', I'm just trying to learn more through discussion.
"As others have noted, vice lists are sometimes organized into groups of "sins," with sins put together that have something to do with one another.9 First are listed, say, vices of sex, then those of violence, then others related to economics or injustice. Analyzing the occurrence of arsenokoités in different vice lists, I noticed that it often occurs not where we would expect to find reference to homosexual intercourse — that is, along with adultery (moicheia) and prostitution or illicit sex (porneia) — but among vices related to economic injustice or exploitation."
anyway....Frequently, both gay and liberal preachers twist the scriptures in futile endeavors to make it seem that homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle. (2*Peter 3:16)
The Greek word por·nei′a, translated “fornication" is a broader term than that for adultery. It describes all forms of sexual relations outside lawful marriage, including homosexuality, read (Jude 7).
The Greek word por·nei′a covers a broad meaning. Bauer, p.*693, says under the word por·nei′a that it means “prostitution, unchastity, fornication, of every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse.”
Commenting on Jesus’ words in Mt 5:32 and 19:9, TDNT, Vol. VI, p.*592, says that “πορνεία [por·nei′a] refers to extra-marital intercourse.” Therefore, the Scriptures use the term por·nei′a in connection with married persons. The same dictionary, on p.*594, in connection with Eph 5:3, 5, says that Paul “realises that not every one has the gift of continence, 1 C. 7:7. As a protection against the evil of fornication the [single] man who does not have [continence] should take the divinely prescribed way of a lawful marriage, 1 C. 7:2.” Hence, the Scriptures use the term por·nei′a also in connection with unmarried persons engaging in unlawful sex relations and practices.—See 1Co 6:9.
B. F. Westcott, coeditor of the Westcott and Hort Greek text, in his work, Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Ephesians, London and New York, 1906, p.*76, comments on the various meanings of por·nei′a in the Scriptures in a note on Eph 5:3, saying: “This is a general term for all unlawful intercourse, (I) adultery: Hos. ii. 2, 4 (LXX.); Matt. v. 32; xix. 9; (2) unlawful marriage, I Cor. v. I; (3) fornication, the common sense as here [Eph 5:3].” By “the common sense” evidently reference is made to the modern, limited, sense involving only unmarried persons.
In addition to this literal meaning, in certain places in the Christian Greek Scriptures por·nei′a has a symbolic meaning. Concerning this meaning ZorellGr, col. 1106, says under por·nei′a: “apostasy from the true faith, committed either entirely or partially, defection from the one true God Jahve to foreign gods [4Ki 9:22; Jer 32:9; Ho 6:10 etc.; for God’s union with his people was considered like a kind of spiritual matrimony]: Re 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2.” (Brackets his; 4Ki in LXX corresponds to 2Ki in M.)
In the Greek text por·nei′a occurs in the following 25 places: Mt 5:32; 15:19; 19:9; Mr 7:21; Joh 8:41; Ac 15:20, 29; 21:25; 1Co 5:1, 1; 6:13, 18; 7:2; 2Co 12:21; Ga 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1Th 4:3; Re 2:21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2.
The related verb por·neu′o, rendered in NW as “practice fornication” or “commit fornication,” occurs in the following eight places: 1Co 6:18; 10:8, 8; Re 2:14, 20; 17:2; 18:3, 9.
The related verb ek·por·neu′o, rendered in NW as “commit fornication excessively,” occurs once, in Jude 7.—Compare Jg 2:17 ftn.
The related noun por′ne, rendered in NW as “harlot,” occurs in the following 12 places: Mt 21:31, 32; Lu 15:30; 1Co 6:15, 16; Heb 11:31; Jas 2:25; Re 17:1, 5, 15, 16; 19:2.
The related noun por′nos, rendered in NW as “fornicator,” occurs in the following ten places: 1Co 5:9, 10, 11; 6:9; Eph 5:5; 1Ti 1:10; Heb 12:16; 13:4; Re 21:8; 22:15. LS, p.*1450, defines this word as meaning “catamite, sodomite, fornicator, idolater"
i totally forgot to add something here...i am sorry, getting tired, can't sleep tonight....
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
Of course you have, I don't think I said anything otherwise. Also, you're right, perhaps 'natural' wasn't the best word I could have used. And I like your grandfather's analogy; he, and you, are right.
thank you.
i define natural to be "as nature intended".
thank you for not taking it the wrong way.
"As others have noted, vice lists are sometimes organized into groups of "sins," with sins put together that have something to do with one another.9 First are listed, say, vices of sex, then those of violence, then others related to economics or injustice. Analyzing the occurrence of arsenokoités in different vice lists, I noticed that it often occurs not where we would expect to find reference to homosexual intercourse — that is, along with adultery (moicheia) and prostitution or illicit sex (porneia) — but among vices related to economic injustice or exploitation."
anyway....Frequently, both gay and liberal preachers twist the scriptures in futile endeavors to make it seem that homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle. (2*Peter 3:16)
The Greek word por·nei′a, translated “fornication" is a broader term than that for adultery. It describes all forms of sexual relations outside lawful marriage, including homosexuality, read (Jude 7).
The Greek word por·nei′a covers a broad meaning. Bauer, p.*693, says under the word por·nei′a that it means “prostitution, unchastity, fornication, of every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse.”
Commenting on Jesus’ words in Mt 5:32 and 19:9, TDNT, Vol. VI, p.*592, says that “πορνεία [por·nei′a] refers to extra-marital intercourse.” Therefore, the Scriptures use the term por·nei′a in connection with married persons. The same dictionary, on p.*594, in connection with Eph 5:3, 5, says that Paul “realises that not every one has the gift of continence, 1 C. 7:7. As a protection against the evil of fornication the [single] man who does not have [continence] should take the divinely prescribed way of a lawful marriage, 1 C. 7:2.” Hence, the Scriptures use the term por·nei′a also in connection with unmarried persons engaging in unlawful sex relations and practices.—See 1Co 6:9.
B. F. Westcott, coeditor of the Westcott and Hort Greek text, in his work, Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Ephesians, London and New York, 1906, p.*76, comments on the various meanings of por·nei′a in the Scriptures in a note on Eph 5:3, saying: “This is a general term for all unlawful intercourse, (I) adultery: Hos. ii. 2, 4 (LXX.); Matt. v. 32; xix. 9; (2) unlawful marriage, I Cor. v. I; (3) fornication, the common sense as here [Eph 5:3].” By “the common sense” evidently reference is made to the modern, limited, sense involving only unmarried persons.
In addition to this literal meaning, in certain places in the Christian Greek Scriptures por·nei′a has a symbolic meaning. Concerning this meaning ZorellGr, col. 1106, says under por·nei′a: “apostasy from the true faith, committed either entirely or partially, defection from the one true God Jahve to foreign gods [4Ki 9:22; Jer 32:9; Ho 6:10 etc.; for God’s union with his people was considered like a kind of spiritual matrimony]: Re 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2.” (Brackets his; 4Ki in LXX corresponds to 2Ki in M.)
In the Greek text por·nei′a occurs in the following 25 places: Mt 5:32; 15:19; 19:9; Mr 7:21; Joh 8:41; Ac 15:20, 29; 21:25; 1Co 5:1, 1; 6:13, 18; 7:2; 2Co 12:21; Ga 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1Th 4:3; Re 2:21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2.
The related verb por·neu′o, rendered in NW as “practice fornication” or “commit fornication,” occurs in the following eight places: 1Co 6:18; 10:8, 8; Re 2:14, 20; 17:2; 18:3, 9.
The related verb ek·por·neu′o, rendered in NW as “commit fornication excessively,” occurs once, in Jude 7.—Compare Jg 2:17 ftn.
The related noun por′ne, rendered in NW as “harlot,” occurs in the following 12 places: Mt 21:31, 32; Lu 15:30; 1Co 6:15, 16; Heb 11:31; Jas 2:25; Re 17:1, 5, 15, 16; 19:2.
The related noun por′nos, rendered in NW as “fornicator,” occurs in the following ten places: 1Co 5:9, 10, 11; 6:9; Eph 5:5; 1Ti 1:10; Heb 12:16; 13:4; Re 21:8; 22:15. LS, p.*1450, defines this word as meaning “catamite, sodomite, fornicator, idolater"
i totally forgot to add something here...i am sorry, getting tired, can't sleep tonight....
All of which makes an extremely good case against fornication - extra-marital sex (and, therefore, supporting marriage), but not necessarily against homosexuality since, if the law was changed, homosexuals would be allowed the right to form very committed, covenantal love relationships, no?
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Why is everyone bashing Christians for not tollerating sodomy, yet turn their head away from these fundamentalist Muslims when they outright murder a homosexual in their country? I guess that's not politically correct..
Muslim homophobes are assholes too.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
All of which makes an extremely good case against fornication - extra-marital sex (and, therefore, supporting marriage), but not necessarily against homosexuality since, if the law was changed, homosexuals would be allowed the right to form very committed, covenantal love relationships, no?
It describes all forms of sexual relations outside lawful marriage, including homosexuality
“Law of the Christ.” Paul wrote: “Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.” (Ga 6:2) While the Law covenant was terminated at Pentecost, 33*C.E. (“since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law”; Heb 7:12), Christians come “under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) This law is called “the perfect law that belongs to freedom,” “the law of a free people,” “the law of faith.” (Jas 1:25; 2:12; Ro 3:27) Such a new law had been foretold by God through the prophet Jeremiah when he spoke of a new covenant and the writing of his law on the hearts of his people.—Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-13.
Like Moses, the mediator of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ is Mediator of the new covenant. Moses wrote the Law in code form, but Jesus did not personally put a law down in writing. (The contrast between these covenants is also clearly explained by the apostle Paul, who speaks of the ‘handwritten document of decrees’ having been taken out of the way by Jesus’ death on the torture stake; “But now Jesus has obtained a more excellent public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established upon better promises.” The old covenant became obsolete and was done away with as a code administering death. Those Jews not understanding this are described as having their perceptions dulled...)He talked and put his law into the minds and hearts of his disciples. Neither did his disciples set down laws in the form of a code for Christians, classifying the laws into categories and subheadings. Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2,*3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34,*35; 14:15; 15:14.
Jesus gave instruction to his disciples to preach the ‘good news of the kingdom.’ His command is found at Matthew 10:1-42; Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12. At Matthew 28:18-20 a new command was given to Jesus’ disciples to go, not to the Jews only, but to all nations, to make disciples and baptize them with a new baptism, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Thus, with divine authorization Jesus taught and issued commands while on earth (Ac 1:1,*2) as well as after his ascension. (Ac 9:5,*6; Re 1:1-3) The entire book of Revelation consists of prophecies, commands, admonition, and instruction to the Christian congregation.
The “law of the Christ” covers the whole course and scope of the Christian’s life and work. By the help of God’s spirit the Christian can follow the commands in order to be judged favorably by that law, for it is “the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus.”—Ro 8:2,*4.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
i think this conversation could go on and on. one of the problems is that if people don't see the word 'homosexuality' in the Bible, of course they are not satisfied. there are other forbidden acts not directly mentioned inthe Bible, but they don't have to be....
The Bible has been likened to a mirror, and people are urged to peer into it. “If anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in it, this man, because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing it.” (James 1:23-25) The Bible, properly understood and used, has deep, incisive analytical power that will not only show up what you are as a person but even reveal your motives and attitudes. Thus, Paul wrote: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword .*.*. and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” God’s Word goes even further by providing guidance as to what is truly right and what is truly wrong.—Hebrews 4:12; 5:14.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
All of which makes an extremely good case against fornication - extra-marital sex (and, therefore, supporting marriage), but not necessarily against homosexuality since, if the law was changed, homosexuals would be allowed the right to form very committed, covenantal love relationships, no?
BUT; it would also give them the right to divorce and almost double the courts case load. this in turn requires more courts and much higher taxes to pay for them. it's sad but everything revolves around money. but i see the point. who do we take money away from?
i think this conversation could go on and on. one of the problems is that if people don't see the word 'homosexuality' in the Bible, of course they are not satisfied. there are other forbidden acts not directly mentioned inthe Bible, but they don't have to be....
The Bible has been likened to a mirror, and people are urged to peer into it. “If anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in it, this man, because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing it.” (James 1:23-25) The Bible, properly understood and used, has deep, incisive analytical power that will not only show up what you are as a person but even reveal your motives and attitudes. Thus, Paul wrote: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword .*.*. and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” God’s Word goes even further by providing guidance as to what is truly right and what is truly wrong.—Hebrews 4:12; 5:14.
if you read the story of "sadom and gamorra" you will find homosexuality mentioned in extreme detail. homosexuality is the reason the two cities were destroyed with such vengence. the word sadomy comes from the city sadom. it really pissed God off.
if you read the story of "sadom and gamorra" you will find homosexuality mentioned in extreme detail. homosexuality is the reason the two cities were destroyed with such vengence. the word sadomy comes from the city sadom. it really pissed God off.
i'm quite familiar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. the act of homosexuality, or intention is definitely mentioned in the book of Genesis. but like i said, the word homosexuality isn't.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
i think this conversation could go on and on. one of the problems is that if people don't see the word 'homosexuality' in the Bible, of course they are not satisfied. there are other forbidden acts not directly mentioned inthe Bible, but they don't have to be....
The Bible has been likened to a mirror, and people are urged to peer into it. “If anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in it, this man, because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing it.” (James 1:23-25) The Bible, properly understood and used, has deep, incisive analytical power that will not only show up what you are as a person but even reveal your motives and attitudes. Thus, Paul wrote: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword .*.*. and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” God’s Word goes even further by providing guidance as to what is truly right and what is truly wrong.—Hebrews 4:12; 5:14.
Do you believe that God speaks to us as the Holy Spirit within us? Do you believe that the Holy spirit provides us guidance on what is truly right and wrong--guidance sharper and more powerful than a double edged sword?
Do you believe the word of God is alive all around us and in everything that we do? Do you believe we can tap into and access this "word" at any time?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
i'm quite familiar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. the act of homosexuality, or intention is definitely mentioned in the book of Genesis. but like i said, the word homosexuality isn't.
i'll give you that. the word homosexuality is a much newer word. the story is about God sending 4 angels disguised as humans. the towns men wanted to sodomize them and thus the destruction of the cities. the word isn't used but the detail describes homosexuality.
i'll give you that. the word homosexuality is a much newer word. the story is about God sending 4 angels disguised as humans. the towns men wanted to sodomize them and thus the destruction of the cities. the word isn't used but the detail describes homosexuality.
Well actually, this story describes gross exploitation and homosexual rape. This is one of the stories used to argue against homosexual acts being 'sinful', but this one in particular is pretty weak, IMO. In ancient Jewish culture, this was especially demeaning for a man because, according to their sexist views about women, it is the woman who is meant to be penetrated in this way; for a man to have it done was 'wrong' because it implied weakness and further equality to a woman. You're right about the word 'homosexual' being new (20th century, actually). Also new is the fact that homosexuals are often wanting to be in loving, committed relationships. The story describes homsexual cruelty and rape; it doesn't say anything about the orientation - as we understand it now - being sinful.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
Do you believe that God speaks to us as the Holy Spirit within us? Do you believe that the Holy spirit provides us guidance on what is truly right and wrong--guidance sharper and more powerful than a double edged sword?
Do you believe the word of God is alive all around us and in everything that we do? Do you believe we can tap into and access this "word" at any time?
This spirit is not God himself but a force that God sends forth, or uses, to accomplish whatever he wishes. By means of it, God created the physical heavens, the earth, and all living things. His spirit is called holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to inspire the men who wrote the Bible. Hence, the holy spirit is the invisible active force that God uses to fulfill his purposes
The power that the Bible has wielded in the lives of humble individuals shows that it is more than merely a human work. As the inspired Word of God, it is a channel for the operation of God’s spirit. The same spirit that made possible the miracles Jesus performed helps us today to conquer bad qualities and develop a Christian personality. Indeed, the basic qualities that Christians need to cultivate—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control—are called in the Bible “the fruitage of the spirit.”
The Word of God is alive in the sense that reading God’s “word,” or message, in the Bible can change our life.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
This spirit is not God himself but a force that God sends forth, or uses, to accomplish whatever he wishes. By means of it, God created the physical heavens, the earth, and all living things. His spirit is called holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to inspire the men who wrote the Bible. Hence, the holy spirit is the invisible active force that God uses to fulfill his purposes
The power that the Bible has wielded in the lives of humble individuals shows that it is more than merely a human work. As the inspired Word of God, it is a channel for the operation of God’s spirit. The same spirit that made possible the miracles Jesus performed helps us today to conquer bad qualities and develop a Christian personality. Indeed, the basic qualities that Christians need to cultivate—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control—are called in the Bible “the fruitage of the spirit.”
The Word of God is alive in the sense that reading God’s “word,” or message, in the Bible can change our life.
did God inspire the pope to order galello assassinated in 1635? what about the inquisition? from the story i know; God said he would not interfere (or punish) the earth or man after noah's flood. he sent a rainbow as a sign of this covenant.
FYI: the story says the world was flooded but it's not the world we know. it was the world as the story teller knew it. quite a small place.
did God inspire the pope to order galello assassinated in 1635? what about the inquisition? from the story i know; God said he would not interfere (or punish) the earth or man after noah's flood. he sent a rainbow as a sign of this covenant.
FYI: the story says the world was flooded but it's not the world we know. it was the world as the story teller knew it. quite a small place.
the pope, inquisition....all steeped in false teachings, apostasy...
i could on and on, like i kinda said earlier, quoting scriptures...but i just don't think that would take us anywhere.
i want to talk more Pearl Jam now
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
This spirit is not God himself but a force that God sends forth, or uses, to accomplish whatever he wishes. By means of it, God created the physical heavens, the earth, and all living things. His spirit is called holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to inspire the men who wrote the Bible. Hence, the holy spirit is the invisible active force that God uses to fulfill his purposes
If you say the Spirit is not God himself, do you not believe in the trinity that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Do you believe that God is omnipresent and therefore present everywhere all at once--in all things, including you and I?
The power that the Bible has wielded in the lives of humble individuals shows that it is more than merely a human work. As the inspired Word of God, it is a channel for the operation of God’s spirit. The same spirit that made possible the miracles Jesus performed helps us today to conquer bad qualities and develop a Christian personality. Indeed, the basic qualities that Christians need to cultivate—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control—are called in the Bible “the fruitage of the spirit.”
The Word of God is alive in the sense that reading God’s “word,” or message, in the Bible can change our life.
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I don't feel that you've answered my questions:
1: Do you feel that God speaks to us as the Holy Spirit within us?
2: Do you believe that the Holy spirit provides us guidance on what is truly right and wrong--guidance sharper and more powerful than a double edged sword?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If you say the Spirit is not God himself, do you not believe in the trinity that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Do you believe that God is omnipresent and therefore present everywhere all at once--in all things, including you and I?
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I don't feel that you've answered my questions:
1: Do you feel that God speaks to us as the Holy Spirit within us?
2: Do you believe that the Holy spirit provides us guidance on what is truly right and wrong--guidance sharper and more powerful than a double edged sword?
and i believe i did answer the questions, actually very plainly...
and no, i don't believe in the Trinity, after all, it's not taught in the Bible. no where will find the word Trinity in the Bible.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
This spirit is not God himself but a force that God sends forth, or uses, to accomplish whatever he wishes. By means of it, God created the physical heavens, the earth, and all living things. His spirit is called holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to inspire the men who wrote the Bible. Hence, the holy spirit is the invisible active force that God uses to fulfill his purposes
The power that the Bible has wielded in the lives of humble individuals shows that it is more than merely a human work. As the inspired Word of God, it is a channel for the operation of God’s spirit. The same spirit that made possible the miracles Jesus performed helps us today to conquer bad qualities and develop a Christian personality. Indeed, the basic qualities that Christians need to cultivate—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control—are called in the Bible “the fruitage of the spirit.”
The Word of God is alive in the sense that reading God’s “word,” or message, in the Bible can change our life.
what about your spirit? who is that? isn't it part of you? isn't it your thoughts? your mind goes with your spirit. if your mind doesn't go with your soul then what's the point? do you expect to talk in heaven? or maybe we're talking about telepathy. early man would not have understood telepathy so it was explained as a spirit. Jesus didn't need a holy spirit to perform miracles. he is part of the holy trinity. if he did need the holy spirit; then some of his mischievious miracles disrupt the entire religion.
example: Jesus killed a friend by pushing him off the roof. i believe he was 6. to prove he didn't do it; he brought the friend back to life and said tell them i didn't kill you.
and i believe i did answer the questions, actually very plainly...
and no, i don't believe in the Trinity, after all, it's not taught in the Bible. no where will find the word Trinity in the Bible.
you won't find a lot of words which didn't exist during that time. just as we don't use thou anymore. venacular changes with each generation. homosexual is from the greek who didn't exist at the time of sodom and gomorrah. you're splitting hairs because you have no argument.
what about your spirit? who is that? isn't it part of you? isn't it your thoughts? your mind goes with your spirit. if your mind doesn't go with your soul then what's the point? do you expect to talk in heaven? or maybe we're talking about telepathy. early man would not have understood telepathy so it was explained as a spirit. Jesus didn't need a holy spirit to perform miracles. he is part of the holy trinity. if he did need the holy spirit; then some of his mischievious miracles disrupt the entire religion.
example: Jesus killed a friend by pushing him off the roof. i believe he was 6. to prove he didn't do it; he brought the friend back to life and said tell them i didn't kill you.
yet another false teaching...that we 'have' spirits.
i could list all the texts in the Bible disproving this and Trinity, but people always find a way around to justify their reasonings.
it all comes down to the fact that the Bible is inspired of God, it's all there in writing, no getting around it to try and please ourselves.
thanks for the discussion everyone...
and i was wrong, this thread didn't turn ugly
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
and i believe i did answer the questions, actually very plainly...
and no, i don't believe in the Trinity, after all, it's not taught in the Bible. no where will find the word Trinity in the Bible.
So you don't believe in the Trinity (a benchmark tenet of Christianity, by the way) because the word is not in the Bible, yet you disagree with my being confused about the sinfulness of homosexuality for exactly that reason?
You actually told me on an earlier post that just because 'homosexual' isn't in the Bible, it doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't speak against it. Um... yeah, OK.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
So you don't believe in the Trinity (a benchmark tenet of Christianity, by the way) because the word is not in the Bible, yet you disagree with my being confused about the sinfulness of homosexuality for exactly that reason?
You actually told me on an earlier post that just because 'homosexual' isn't in the Bible, it doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't speak against it. Um... yeah, OK.
homosexual isn't in the Bible, but it's not just simply implied either...as i thought i had brought up earlier.
the Trinity isn't implied in the Scriptures, people just misconstrue text. OK
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
yet another false teaching...that we 'have' spirits.
i could list all the texts in the Bible disproving this and Trinity, but people always find a way around to justify their reasonings.
it all comes down to the fact that the Bible is inspired of God, it's all there in writing, no getting around it to try and please ourselves.
thanks for the discussion everyone...
and i was wrong, this thread didn't turn ugly
i hope you're still there. i really want to know what you consider your soul. and if the bible is inspired of God; why were the scriptures written before the thought of a bible was conceived? the scriptures are written reports of the experiences of the disiples. translated a few times and different words used; but they still were written before the bible was conceived. did all these disciples predict the bible? i'm not being a smart ass. i'm really interested in your interpretation.
for clarification; i do believe in the bible. but i also revert to the original texts to verify things because as i said; the transcribers interpreted with their minds and used words not known in the time of the scriptures.
Comments
Ronaldus Magnus
first, under the heading The main question: How do we read the Bible?
he says "It is not clear whether 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 refer to the "passive" and "active" partners in homosexual relationships, or to homosexual and heterosexual male prostitutes. In short, it is unclear whether the issue is homosexuality alone, or promiscuity and "sex-for-hire."
it is clear...
The apostle Paul was honest and forthright in speaking about homosexuality. This is what he said, as recorded at 1*Corinthians 6:9-11, according to the New International Version: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes [Greek: malakos] nor homosexual offenders [Greek: arsenokoites] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.”
Malakos is drawn from the root word “soft.” Metaphorically it means “effeminate,” and ‘in this bad sense’ it refers to a practice of forms of sexual lewdness, as W. E. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words points out. Interestingly, malakia is modern Greek for “masturbation.”
Arsenokoites is used again by Paul in writing to Timothy at 1*Timothy 1:10. Translations naturally vary in their renderings—“homosexuals” (Living Bible), “sodomites” (A New Translation of the Bible by James Moffatt) and “perverts” (The New English Bible) by way of example. There is no doubt that the early Christians took such deviations of homosexuality and lesbianism very seriously. A concluding reference to Paul’s writings, this time to the Christians in Rome, explains why.
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”—Rom. 1:26, 27, “New International Version.”
The much-disputed Church of England report Homosexual Relationships comments about this as follows: “What Paul means by ‘unnatural’ is ‘unnatural’ to mankind in God’s creation pattern. All homosexual behaviour is a divergence from God’s creation scheme and, in the words of one writer, ‘when set in the context of creation, all homosexual relations are unnatural relations’.”
The report concludes: “What evidence there is seems clearly to show condemnation of homosexual behaviour. For many, this will settle the matter. They will hold that the Bible so plainly indicates the divine disapproval of such behaviour that it must be wrong in all circumstances, and especially so for Christians, who recognize the Bible as an inspired collection of writings which gives authoritative guidance for the conduct of human life.”
The Holy Scriptures are quite clear. Although many seek to justify the homosexual way of life, the Scriptural facts speak for themselves.
so Paul was aware of what was going on, contrary to the headings Homosexuality and the New Testament and Paul thinks that everyone is straight.
remember, Paul was an inspired man.
i'll get to those points another time, to list all explanations right now would be too long...and i want to talk some PJ anyway.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
With all due respect, of course, you've done what I hoped you'd do.
Don't get me wrong. I'm really sympathetic to your views, and until very shortly ago, would have said the same thing. And I still don't 'disagree', I'm just trying to learn more through discussion.
It's long, but a good read:
http://www.clgs.org/5/5_4_3.html
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Jesus was chastized because he kept company with whores; theives; and murderers. but Jesus taught the proper path by example. not by words. like my grandfather used to say; words are like farts; they disappear in the wind.
i don't know anyone who thinks homosexuality is natural. that's almost laughable. natural is a man and woman procreating new life. i'm not saying i'm anti-gay; but i don't view it as natural. ffor a hetro man to say it's natural would be for him to say he'd let another man have anal sex with him because it would be natural. if you're gay you think it's natural.
as to your question; christians, and everyone else is allowed their own opinion and have the right to view it as anything they want. i think it's sinful the way people treat our planet. and i have every right to that opinion.
Of course you have, I don't think I said anything otherwise.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
alot of holes in that article...one big one:
"As others have noted, vice lists are sometimes organized into groups of "sins," with sins put together that have something to do with one another.9 First are listed, say, vices of sex, then those of violence, then others related to economics or injustice. Analyzing the occurrence of arsenokoités in different vice lists, I noticed that it often occurs not where we would expect to find reference to homosexual intercourse — that is, along with adultery (moicheia) and prostitution or illicit sex (porneia) — but among vices related to economic injustice or exploitation."
anyway....Frequently, both gay and liberal preachers twist the scriptures in futile endeavors to make it seem that homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle. (2*Peter 3:16)
The Greek word por·nei′a, translated “fornication" is a broader term than that for adultery. It describes all forms of sexual relations outside lawful marriage, including homosexuality, read (Jude 7).
The Greek word por·nei′a covers a broad meaning. Bauer, p.*693, says under the word por·nei′a that it means “prostitution, unchastity, fornication, of every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse.”
Commenting on Jesus’ words in Mt 5:32 and 19:9, TDNT, Vol. VI, p.*592, says that “πορνεία [por·nei′a] refers to extra-marital intercourse.” Therefore, the Scriptures use the term por·nei′a in connection with married persons. The same dictionary, on p.*594, in connection with Eph 5:3, 5, says that Paul “realises that not every one has the gift of continence, 1 C. 7:7. As a protection against the evil of fornication the [single] man who does not have [continence] should take the divinely prescribed way of a lawful marriage, 1 C. 7:2.” Hence, the Scriptures use the term por·nei′a also in connection with unmarried persons engaging in unlawful sex relations and practices.—See 1Co 6:9.
B. F. Westcott, coeditor of the Westcott and Hort Greek text, in his work, Saint Paul’s Epistle to the Ephesians, London and New York, 1906, p.*76, comments on the various meanings of por·nei′a in the Scriptures in a note on Eph 5:3, saying: “This is a general term for all unlawful intercourse, (I) adultery: Hos. ii. 2, 4 (LXX.); Matt. v. 32; xix. 9; (2) unlawful marriage, I Cor. v. I; (3) fornication, the common sense as here [Eph 5:3].” By “the common sense” evidently reference is made to the modern, limited, sense involving only unmarried persons.
In addition to this literal meaning, in certain places in the Christian Greek Scriptures por·nei′a has a symbolic meaning. Concerning this meaning ZorellGr, col. 1106, says under por·nei′a: “apostasy from the true faith, committed either entirely or partially, defection from the one true God Jahve to foreign gods [4Ki 9:22; Jer 32:9; Ho 6:10 etc.; for God’s union with his people was considered like a kind of spiritual matrimony]: Re 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2.” (Brackets his; 4Ki in LXX corresponds to 2Ki in M.)
In the Greek text por·nei′a occurs in the following 25 places: Mt 5:32; 15:19; 19:9; Mr 7:21; Joh 8:41; Ac 15:20, 29; 21:25; 1Co 5:1, 1; 6:13, 18; 7:2; 2Co 12:21; Ga 5:19; Eph 5:3; Col 3:5; 1Th 4:3; Re 2:21; 9:21; 14:8; 17:2, 4; 18:3; 19:2.
The related verb por·neu′o, rendered in NW as “practice fornication” or “commit fornication,” occurs in the following eight places: 1Co 6:18; 10:8, 8; Re 2:14, 20; 17:2; 18:3, 9.
The related verb ek·por·neu′o, rendered in NW as “commit fornication excessively,” occurs once, in Jude 7.—Compare Jg 2:17 ftn.
The related noun por′ne, rendered in NW as “harlot,” occurs in the following 12 places: Mt 21:31, 32; Lu 15:30; 1Co 6:15, 16; Heb 11:31; Jas 2:25; Re 17:1, 5, 15, 16; 19:2.
The related noun por′nos, rendered in NW as “fornicator,” occurs in the following ten places: 1Co 5:9, 10, 11; 6:9; Eph 5:5; 1Ti 1:10; Heb 12:16; 13:4; Re 21:8; 22:15. LS, p.*1450, defines this word as meaning “catamite, sodomite, fornicator, idolater"
i totally forgot to add something here...i am sorry, getting tired, can't sleep tonight....
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
thank you.
i define natural to be "as nature intended".
thank you for not taking it the wrong way.
All of which makes an extremely good case against fornication - extra-marital sex (and, therefore, supporting marriage), but not necessarily against homosexuality since, if the law was changed, homosexuals would be allowed the right to form very committed, covenantal love relationships, no?
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Muslim homophobes are assholes too.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
It describes all forms of sexual relations outside lawful marriage, including homosexuality
“Law of the Christ.” Paul wrote: “Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.” (Ga 6:2) While the Law covenant was terminated at Pentecost, 33*C.E. (“since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law”; Heb 7:12), Christians come “under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) This law is called “the perfect law that belongs to freedom,” “the law of a free people,” “the law of faith.” (Jas 1:25; 2:12; Ro 3:27) Such a new law had been foretold by God through the prophet Jeremiah when he spoke of a new covenant and the writing of his law on the hearts of his people.—Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-13.
Like Moses, the mediator of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ is Mediator of the new covenant. Moses wrote the Law in code form, but Jesus did not personally put a law down in writing. (The contrast between these covenants is also clearly explained by the apostle Paul, who speaks of the ‘handwritten document of decrees’ having been taken out of the way by Jesus’ death on the torture stake; “But now Jesus has obtained a more excellent public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established upon better promises.” The old covenant became obsolete and was done away with as a code administering death. Those Jews not understanding this are described as having their perceptions dulled...)He talked and put his law into the minds and hearts of his disciples. Neither did his disciples set down laws in the form of a code for Christians, classifying the laws into categories and subheadings. Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2,*3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34,*35; 14:15; 15:14.
Jesus gave instruction to his disciples to preach the ‘good news of the kingdom.’ His command is found at Matthew 10:1-42; Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12. At Matthew 28:18-20 a new command was given to Jesus’ disciples to go, not to the Jews only, but to all nations, to make disciples and baptize them with a new baptism, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Thus, with divine authorization Jesus taught and issued commands while on earth (Ac 1:1,*2) as well as after his ascension. (Ac 9:5,*6; Re 1:1-3) The entire book of Revelation consists of prophecies, commands, admonition, and instruction to the Christian congregation.
The “law of the Christ” covers the whole course and scope of the Christian’s life and work. By the help of God’s spirit the Christian can follow the commands in order to be judged favorably by that law, for it is “the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus.”—Ro 8:2,*4.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
The Bible has been likened to a mirror, and people are urged to peer into it. “If anyone is a hearer of the word, and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and off he goes and immediately forgets what sort of man he is. But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in it, this man, because he has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, will be happy in his doing it.” (James 1:23-25) The Bible, properly understood and used, has deep, incisive analytical power that will not only show up what you are as a person but even reveal your motives and attitudes. Thus, Paul wrote: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword .*.*. and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” God’s Word goes even further by providing guidance as to what is truly right and what is truly wrong.—Hebrews 4:12; 5:14.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
BUT; it would also give them the right to divorce and almost double the courts case load. this in turn requires more courts and much higher taxes to pay for them. it's sad but everything revolves around money. but i see the point. who do we take money away from?
if you read the story of "sadom and gamorra" you will find homosexuality mentioned in extreme detail. homosexuality is the reason the two cities were destroyed with such vengence. the word sadomy comes from the city sadom. it really pissed God off.
i'm quite familiar with the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. the act of homosexuality, or intention is definitely mentioned in the book of Genesis. but like i said, the word homosexuality isn't.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
Do you believe the word of God is alive all around us and in everything that we do? Do you believe we can tap into and access this "word" at any time?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i'll give you that. the word homosexuality is a much newer word. the story is about God sending 4 angels disguised as humans. the towns men wanted to sodomize them and thus the destruction of the cities. the word isn't used but the detail describes homosexuality.
Well actually, this story describes gross exploitation and homosexual rape. This is one of the stories used to argue against homosexual acts being 'sinful', but this one in particular is pretty weak, IMO. In ancient Jewish culture, this was especially demeaning for a man because, according to their sexist views about women, it is the woman who is meant to be penetrated in this way; for a man to have it done was 'wrong' because it implied weakness and further equality to a woman. You're right about the word 'homosexual' being new (20th century, actually). Also new is the fact that homosexuals are often wanting to be in loving, committed relationships. The story describes homsexual cruelty and rape; it doesn't say anything about the orientation - as we understand it now - being sinful.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
This spirit is not God himself but a force that God sends forth, or uses, to accomplish whatever he wishes. By means of it, God created the physical heavens, the earth, and all living things. His spirit is called holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to inspire the men who wrote the Bible. Hence, the holy spirit is the invisible active force that God uses to fulfill his purposes
The power that the Bible has wielded in the lives of humble individuals shows that it is more than merely a human work. As the inspired Word of God, it is a channel for the operation of God’s spirit. The same spirit that made possible the miracles Jesus performed helps us today to conquer bad qualities and develop a Christian personality. Indeed, the basic qualities that Christians need to cultivate—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control—are called in the Bible “the fruitage of the spirit.”
The Word of God is alive in the sense that reading God’s “word,” or message, in the Bible can change our life.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
did God inspire the pope to order galello assassinated in 1635? what about the inquisition? from the story i know; God said he would not interfere (or punish) the earth or man after noah's flood. he sent a rainbow as a sign of this covenant.
FYI: the story says the world was flooded but it's not the world we know. it was the world as the story teller knew it. quite a small place.
the pope, inquisition....all steeped in false teachings, apostasy...
i could on and on, like i kinda said earlier, quoting scriptures...but i just don't think that would take us anywhere.
i want to talk more Pearl Jam now
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
Do you believe that God is omnipresent and therefore present everywhere all at once--in all things, including you and I?
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
I don't feel that you've answered my questions:
1: Do you feel that God speaks to us as the Holy Spirit within us?
2: Do you believe that the Holy spirit provides us guidance on what is truly right and wrong--guidance sharper and more powerful than a double edged sword?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
and i believe i did answer the questions, actually very plainly...
and no, i don't believe in the Trinity, after all, it's not taught in the Bible. no where will find the word Trinity in the Bible.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
what about your spirit? who is that? isn't it part of you? isn't it your thoughts? your mind goes with your spirit. if your mind doesn't go with your soul then what's the point? do you expect to talk in heaven? or maybe we're talking about telepathy. early man would not have understood telepathy so it was explained as a spirit. Jesus didn't need a holy spirit to perform miracles. he is part of the holy trinity. if he did need the holy spirit; then some of his mischievious miracles disrupt the entire religion.
example: Jesus killed a friend by pushing him off the roof. i believe he was 6. to prove he didn't do it; he brought the friend back to life and said tell them i didn't kill you.
you won't find a lot of words which didn't exist during that time. just as we don't use thou anymore. venacular changes with each generation. homosexual is from the greek who didn't exist at the time of sodom and gomorrah. you're splitting hairs because you have no argument.
Fair enough if you don't believe in the Trinity. Do you believe God is omnipresent and in all things at once?
Also, do you believe we are each in possession of a soul at all times and that this soul is of Spirit nature and of God?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
yet another false teaching...that we 'have' spirits.
i could list all the texts in the Bible disproving this and Trinity, but people always find a way around to justify their reasonings.
it all comes down to the fact that the Bible is inspired of God, it's all there in writing, no getting around it to try and please ourselves.
thanks for the discussion everyone...
and i was wrong, this thread didn't turn ugly
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
So you don't believe in the Trinity (a benchmark tenet of Christianity, by the way) because the word is not in the Bible, yet you disagree with my being confused about the sinfulness of homosexuality for exactly that reason?
You actually told me on an earlier post that just because 'homosexual' isn't in the Bible, it doesn't mean that the Bible doesn't speak against it. Um... yeah, OK.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
homosexual isn't in the Bible, but it's not just simply implied either...as i thought i had brought up earlier.
the Trinity isn't implied in the Scriptures, people just misconstrue text. OK
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
i hope you're still there. i really want to know what you consider your soul. and if the bible is inspired of God; why were the scriptures written before the thought of a bible was conceived? the scriptures are written reports of the experiences of the disiples. translated a few times and different words used; but they still were written before the bible was conceived. did all these disciples predict the bible? i'm not being a smart ass. i'm really interested in your interpretation.