Christians and Homosexuality
harmless_little_f***
Posts: 8,005
Right, I'm a Christian. I was always 'taught' that a homosexual lifestyle is sinful. It's been getting my goat really recently, because, just suddenly, I'm starting to wonder why we think that as Christians. Because not all of us do. And, well, I've forgotten why I once did, as well.
If you 'do' go with this line of thinking, could you refresh my memory? Because at present, I'm sort of scratching my head.
If you 'do not' think that (i.e. if you're a Christian and for homosexuality, perhaps gay yourself) I'd love to have your opinion on why you are in the place you are theologically.
Please, no stating the obvious people. No crap like 'Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve'. I know why I 'should' believe homosexuality is wrong. I just have my reasons as to whether I think it actually is in today's society. I can elaborate if anyone likes.
If you 'do' go with this line of thinking, could you refresh my memory? Because at present, I'm sort of scratching my head.
If you 'do not' think that (i.e. if you're a Christian and for homosexuality, perhaps gay yourself) I'd love to have your opinion on why you are in the place you are theologically.
Please, no stating the obvious people. No crap like 'Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve'. I know why I 'should' believe homosexuality is wrong. I just have my reasons as to whether I think it actually is in today's society. I can elaborate if anyone likes.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
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Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
Perhaps. If so, I'm sorry. In the other thread, it's still assumed that homosexuality is a sin. My question is, 'why is it?' In the other thread, sure, you've said that this 'sin' is no worse than other 'sins' (of course, I agree). But I've been thinking: as long as we're saying homosexuality is a 'sin' at all, we're not truly embracing homosexuals as people. So this question is different. It is, nevertheless, inspired by your thread, because it made me think.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
Not necessarily; if there's something you'd like to offer, I'd love for someone to jog my memory.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I'd have to disagree with this statement. Isn't it possible to to embrace a person eventhough you don't agree with their lifestyle? For example, let's say my dad is......whatever you can think of that's not great....... I may not like it, and know it's wrong, but I still embrace him as my dad and love him.
I think A LOT of christians forget the part of still embracing and loving someone even when they disagree.
Council Bluffs, IA: June 2003
Las Vegas, NV: July 2006
Lollapalooza, Chicago: August 2007
Sure, it would be great if we all could embrace one another, all the time.
But that's probably unrealistic.
Live and let live.
OK, yes, you're right, I do agree. Perhaps I should put it differently: many homosexuals, if you told them 'I don't have to agree with what you do to accept you as a person', would say the above: 'Yes, but, if what I do is sinful, you haven't truly accepted me.' Just something I sometimes come up against as a Christian.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
I'd love to find out why they are in the place they are, despite what the church tells them all the time. I really don't know where I stand on it at all; I have my reasons.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I've been discussing this topic recently with those religiuos fanatics and my favourite priest and I must say that this discussion wasn't ..hmm ..pleasant ..?It's a hard topic just like the abortion..
Their arguments were totally unconvincing to me like "homosexual thoughts aren't a sin , but resisting to those thoughts+the worse - homosexuals acts ARE.I tried to convince them that homosexuals are normal and need some acceptance,that those people FEEL love to each other so how can christians deny true and pure love and feelings !They don't want to hear about it and why ? because such a view is inconvenient for them and knocks down this great wall which they create with such primitive consistency.Why primitive? Because they feel somehow that this view doesn't fit to a christian approach to life and other beings and they blindly stick to it because The Church says so - so it must be their view too.I wish them one thing ... a homosexual person within the most intimate environment like family or friends.Because it is easy to deny when they know really nothing about it.I would like to see such guy telling to his homosexual brother or sister "YOU NEED SOME TREATMENT" and have you heard what happens after such a treatment .? eh .I've always claimed that the Church isn't perfect in many aspects.I am a Christian but I have my own views on many things and sometimes those views differ a lot but I will never change my mind.
there is something i would like to offer, but it just seems like this thread is doomed to turn ugly...
often referring to the Bible for answers turns many people away...even those in religions that should accept it as the word of god...either because of hypocrisy w/ its leaders, seeming contradictions, or the feeling that it is 'outdated'.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
Our humanity in general is a sinful lifestyle. The Bible states clearly that no man shall lie with a man as he shall with a woman. That's Scriptural. Now, whatever your opinion on the matter may be, that's in the Book we rely on for guidance.
Christians do NOT hate homosexual people (Contrary to what Fred Phelps might have to say--he is hardly a banner example of Christianity). Christians hate the act of homosexuality--just as much as we hate other sins.
Well my thinking started when it suddenly struck me: Leviticus. It totally condemns people with any physical blemish, or anyone disabled, being in the priesthood; and of course, most of the Bible reinforces the damaging rubbish that says if you're disabled, it's because of some sin you've done.
It isn't a sexual issue, granted. And I know there are still some morons who believe this. But what criteria do we use when picking and choosing what laws to still uphold in our day? Sexually, the Bible was explicitly against many sexual acts (and otherwise) we consider perfectly normal, and holy, now.
I'm not making a case, necessarily, just explaining what started me off finding all this interesting. I've found an essay online, which is very thought-provoking. Here's the link, maybe we could discuss it?
http://home.wanadoo.nl/inspiritus/Christian%20and%20Homosexual%20Gay%20or%20Lesbian.htm
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
As I said in the above post, the Bible also explicitly says that disability is punishment for sin, and it disallows anyone with any physical limitation access to leadership (priesthood). If I believed the Bible still condoned all that outdated nonsense, I wouldn't be a Christian.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
By all means, offer it. I am thick-skinned, and a Christian. We're all friends here.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
you'll have to refresh me on where the Bible says that. anyway, everyone allowed to become a priest is imperfect and thus disabled in some way.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
I'll get that info to you when I get my hands on my Bible. It's too high up on the shelf right now, and my disabled self can't.... anyway
My point was that in its cultural context, the Old Testament disallowed people with any afflictions or bodily disfunctions this privileged access to God. So whilst I like where you're coming from in your statement, it doesn't go against what these prohibitions meant in their own context.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
the Old Testament, that's right. even though Christians are not living under the Law today, it does give us insight into God's viewpoint on matters, and can and should affect the things we do.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
exactly.
believe how you see fit, just don't ever try to force your belief system on another...which also means trying to infringe on other's rights to fit within your personally held beliefs.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
but i would like to continue later harmless_little_f***...
hold it down.
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"In a little-remembered statement, Jesus said, "Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57 NRSV). Such sovereign freedom strikes terror in the hearts of many Christians; they would rather be under law and be told what is right. Yet Paul himself echoes Jesus' sentiment when he says, "Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life!" (1 Cor. 6:3 RSV). The last thing Paul would want is for people to respond to his ethical advice as a new law engraved on tablets of stone. He is himself trying to "judge for himself what is right." If now new evidence is in on the phenomenon of homosexuality, are we not obligated--no, free--to re-evaluate the whole issue in the light of all the available data and decide what is right, under God, for ourselves? Is this not the radical freedom for obedience in which the gospel establishes us?"
(ed: bold added)
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
This is indeed an exciting quote. I don't know, all this is making me think, is all.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
"Rather than tearing at each others's throats, therefore, we should humbly admit our limitations. How do I know I am correctly interpreting God's word for us today? How do you? Wouldn't it be wiser for Christians to lower the decibels by 95 percent and quietly present our beliefs, knowing full well that we might be wrong?"
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"When we're green we grow, when we're ripe we rot."
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!