Mindless Sheep? Enlighten Me.....

HermanBloom

jimed14 wrote:

ahh yes, calling people ignorant assholes ... a great way to encourage a debate not fueled by hate.

Just replying and was disappointed by the quick degeneration of the free flow of ideas that is completely lacking on here. Tried to start an honest discussion and once again it was completely shut down by philosophers.

HermanBloom

polaris wrote:

if that's what you honestly think - i can understand now why america is divided as much as it is ...

With lack of ideas from your country, I can see why Canada is so stagnant.

Jason P

This post / thread is the equivalent of asking someone to engage in a fair fight and then throwing sand in their eyes before you start pummeling them.

MayDay10

nathanastin wrote:

I was making a reference to how religionists are called mindless sheep, but aren't Obama followers similar to that. It was not an outright attack on anyone. Notice the question mark.

I dont really bash religion, but I get bothered when it becomes visible in politics, particularly federal. I dont know religion that in-depth, but from what I have witnessed, it seems to prevent progressive thinking if the follower is immersed enough in it. Especially when it comes to evolution/creationism, sciences, abortion, gay rights/lack of...

polaris

nathanastin wrote:

With lack of ideas from your country, I can see why Canada is so stagnant.

haha ... please continue to prove me right ... thanks!

jimed14

nathanastin wrote:

Just replying and was disappointed by the quick degeneration of the free flow of ideas that is completely lacking on here. Tried to start an honest discussion and once again it was completely shut down by philosophers.

it was your second post of the thread, you called people ignorant assholes.

you had no intention of a civil debate.

nothinghead

nathanastin wrote:

So you are saying he is selling hope, which it implies (to me) that he it is not real and he will not give hope. So why do so many people on here bash those that follow religion (i.e. hope) but not bash those that follow this? Aren't they really the same thing. And why are those that follow a religion close-minded?

As someone who is neither big on religion or Barack Obama, yes, that's what I am saying. The appeal of both institutions--from my point of view--is that they are both just offering a product. They're both just selling words and ideas--words and ideas meant to make you feel better. You know, hope.

Do good things come from religion? Depends on who you ask. I'll go as far as to say "occasionally." Will Obama affect any real change? To what extent? Well, no one knows yet. It's possible, and for the sake of the country, I hope so. Something tells me after a few years, the answer to that question will be "occasionally." Some places he'll succeed, other places he'll fail.

HermanBloom

Jason P wrote:

This post / thread is the equivalent of asking someone to engage in a fair fight and then throwing sand in their eyes before you start pummeling them.

All anyone has done is attacked me when all I did was simply ask some questions. I have only seen what I thought and have got no answers form anyone. Is that because there are none and my observations are correct?

I guess some of my wording was harsh and for that I am sorry.

HermanBloom

nothinghead wrote:

As someone who is neither big on religion or Barack Obama, yes, that's what I am saying. The appeal of both institutions--from my point of view--is that they are both just offering a product. They're both just selling words and ideas--words and ideas meant to make you feel better. You know, hope.

Do good things come from religion? Depends on who you ask. I'll go as far as to say "occasionally." Will Obama affect any real change? To what extent? Well, no one knows yet. It's possible, and for the sake of the country, I hope so. Something tells me after a few years, the answer to that question will be "occasionally." Some places he'll succeed, other places he'll fail.

I think you may be correct.

HermanBloom

jimed14 wrote:

it was your second post of the thread, you called people ignorant assholes.

you had no intention of a civil debate.

Simply replying to my attack; sorry

inmytree

nathanastin wrote:

**Please no hate-filled rants and propaganda; just an honest debate and discussion wanted**

I hear a lot from the left and most on here that those on the religious side are mindless sheep. Yet, I have never seen such mindless following as with Messiah Obama. People weep over this man that has done nothing in his political career but spout "change." That is just rhetoric and will amount to nothing over his term. If you think he will immediately pull the troops out you're crazy. The economy will take a long time to fix itself. The only change I see coming is socialism.

I understand Bush has been a failure, but what has Obama done? He got into politics through a corrupt ploy. He is a one term senator that knows how to speak. He took a billion dollars in pork for Illinois in only a couple years (I consider pork to be the epitome of corruption and disgusting political maneuvering; and I know both sides do it).

I need enlightened on why so many people are so enamored over this figurehead. I see it as indoctrination in the schools and especially universities, considering that 95% or so of professors are extremely liberal.

I can understand that you hate Bush and you are happy that he is gone, but complete messianic worship for a politician, and that is what he is is sad. Obama got lucky that the economy tanked at the right time. Only 9% of voters said terrorism was their top priority, which shows to me that Bush has done some good by slowing the tide.

Obama has surrounded himself with terrorists (Ayers, Khalidi) and hate-filled and racist spiritual leader (Wright). What makes you think he will have better judgment?

I could go on and on, but am just wanting some help here. I do want to honestly understand.

I do find it amusing that you claim to want to have an honest debate and discussion yet you call those who support President Elect Obama as "mindless"...the you later whine about PJ fans being assholes because the don't agree with you assertions...

inmytree

nathanastin wrote:

Simply replying to my attack; sorry

what attack...?

Jason P

nathanastin wrote:

All anyone has done is attacked me when all I did was simply ask some questions. I have only seen what I thought and have got no answers form anyone. Is that because there are none and my observations are correct?

I guess some of my wording was harsh and for that I am sorry.

I understand the debate you were trying to forge. It's just that some of the opinions and terms used in your opening post would be interpreted by a liberal as "fighting words".

Have a nice day.

NOCODE#1

nathanastin wrote:

, which shows to me that Bush has done some good by slowing the tide.

Obama has surrounded himself with terrorists (Ayers, Khalidi) and hate-filled and racist spiritual leader (Wright)

you do know mccain hasnt been to church in what 5 years?

nathanastin wrote:

What makes you think he will have better judgment?

you mean the judgement mccain had in giving 1/2 a mill to khalidi?

nathanastin wrote:

I could go on and on,

This usually means a person is out of ideas.

polaris

nathanastin wrote:

All anyone has done is attacked me when all I did was simply ask some questions. I have only seen what I thought and have got no answers form anyone. Is that because there are none and my observations are correct?

I guess some of my wording was harsh and for that I am sorry.

well ... i think the main problem is that your "observations" happen to be the propaganda the GOP campaign based their election on ... negative campaigning with no substance or relevance ...

i mean where does one start? ... socialism?? ... to think any american president would ever become remotely socialist is ridiculous ... ayers, wright, all those guilty by association links are alos ridiculous ... do you think obama is gonna plant a bomb in the pentagon??

at the end of the day - there are valid concerns about how effective obama will be as president of which you highlighted none ...

HermanBloom

inmytree wrote:

I do find it amusing that you claim to want to have an honest debate and discussion yet you call those who support President Elect Obama as "mindless"...the you later whine about PJ fans being assholes because the don't agree with you assertions...

I call them assholes because they act like jerks when anyone wants to ask some questions they don't agree with. I didn't say anyone following Obama is mindless; a lot of brilliant and thoughtful people follow him. However, I do see a lot of mindless following of him and am only trying to point out the hypocrisy that comes from a lot of Obama followers who attack those who follow religions.

Gonzo1977

nathanastin wrote:

I guess some of my wording was harsh and for that I am sorry.

It would appear that you also have conflict with yourself.

"Ignorant Sheep"

"Doh"
"Why'd I say that"?

Anyways...

If you want to have intelligent discussion fine. I'm for it and will gladly tell you why I voted for Obama. But if you call me an "ignorant sheep" I'm just gonna assume that you're another one of those "Bitter Conservative Cracker Jacks" who still can't stomache the fact that the GOP got it's ass handed to it.

NOCODE#1

polaris wrote:

well ... i think the main problem is that your "observations" happen to be the propaganda the GOP campaign based their election on ... negative campaigning with no substance or relevance ...

i mean where does one start? ... socialism?? ... to think any american president would ever become remotely socialist is ridiculous ... ayers, wright, all those guilty by association links are alos ridiculous ... do you think obama is gonna plant a bomb in the pentagon??

at the end of the day - there are valid concerns about how effective obama will be as president of which you highlighted none ...

You can't reason with the "true america". :rolleyes: Any college level graduate knows that socialism was the Reich's veiled reference at racism. Nice job! Since it's in the "true america" 's mindset that blacks are un-American, they made any association they could to link those perceptions together (terrorist/socialist).

Remember all this socialism came from a quip to a supposed plumber.

nothinghead

nathanastin wrote:

I call them assholes because they act like jerks when anyone wants to ask some questions they don't agree with. I didn't say anyone following Obama is mindless; a lot of brilliant and thoughtful people follow him. However, I do see a lot of mindless following of him and am only trying to point out the hypocrisy that comes from a lot of Obama followers who attack those who follow religions.

"I didn't say anyone following Obama is mindless...however, I do see a lot of mindless following of him."

That's your quote.

As someone who did reply to the thread, I saw what you were asking and the discussion you were trying to forge, to an extent.

But quotes like that aren't helping you too much with other posters it seems.

HermanBloom

polaris wrote:

well ... i think the main problem is that your "observations" happen to be the propaganda the GOP campaign based their election on ... negative campaigning with no substance or relevance ...

i mean where does one start? ... socialism?? ... to think any american president would ever become remotely socialist is ridiculous ... ayers, wright, all those guilty by association links are alos ridiculous ... do you think obama is gonna plant a bomb in the pentagon??

at the end of the day - there are valid concerns about how effective obama will be as president of which you highlighted none ...

I saw as much if not more negative campaining from Obama. I am not saying that Obama is a terrorist at all. I am saying that he has associated himself with bad people and that shows a lack of judgment. Or he uses bad people to get what he wants. Redistribution of wealth is socialism. Obama said he would do that at least twice on the record. I actually do not follow the GOP and have only pointed out what I have learned from a variety of sources all across the spectrum.