Mindless Sheep? Enlighten Me.....

HermanBloom

**Please no hate-filled rants and propaganda; just an honest debate and discussion wanted**

I hear a lot from the left and most on here that those on the religious side are mindless sheep. Yet, I have never seen such mindless following as with Messiah Obama. People weep over this man that has done nothing in his political career but spout "change." That is just rhetoric and will amount to nothing over his term. If you think he will immediately pull the troops out you're crazy. The economy will take a long time to fix itself. The only change I see coming is socialism.

I understand Bush has been a failure, but what has Obama done? He got into politics through a corrupt ploy. He is a one term senator that knows how to speak. He took a billion dollars in pork for Illinois in only a couple years (I consider pork to be the epitome of corruption and disgusting political maneuvering; and I know both sides do it).

I need enlightened on why so many people are so enamored over this figurehead. I see it as indoctrination in the schools and especially universities, considering that 95% or so of professors are extremely liberal.

I can understand that you hate Bush and you are happy that he is gone, but complete messianic worship for a politician, and that is what he is is sad. Obama got lucky that the economy tanked at the right time. Only 9% of voters said terrorism was their top priority, which shows to me that Bush has done some good by slowing the tide.

Obama has surrounded himself with terrorists (Ayers, Khalidi) and hate-filled and racist spiritual leader (Wright). What makes you think he will have better judgment?

I could go on and on, but am just wanting some help here. I do want to honestly understand.

jbalicki10

Calling people Mindless Sheep is an example of being egomanical. You seem to know all the answers. Why not enlighten everyone....

MrBrian

Firstly, what makes Khalidi a terrorist? Because he's Palestinian?

polaris

nathanastin wrote:

**Please no hate-filled rants and propaganda; just an honest debate and discussion wanted**

uhhh ... why not follow your own conditions first?

HermanBloom

jbalicki10 wrote:

Calling people Mindless Sheep is an example of being egomanical. You seem to know all the answers. Why not enlighten everyone....

Never said that; just said that's what I thought people were doing.

Once again, the PJ fans fail and cannot resist being ignorant assholes.

HermanBloom

MrBrian wrote:

Firstly, what makes Khalidi a terrorist? Because he's Palestinian?

Khalidi is "The co-founder of the Arab group, Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi, is a harsh critic of Israel who reportedly worked on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization when it was labeled a terror group by the State Department."

I call that a terrorist; someone who wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

HermanBloom

polaris wrote:

uhhh ... why not follow your own conditions first?

I spewed no hate whatsoever; just pointing out some of my opinions and thoughts. I guess you are too one sided to see that.

anotherclone

I thought you asked for no hate filled rants or propaganda? Pretty much your entire post is just that.

You said Obama's following was "mindless", say Obama hasn't "done anything", equate change to "socialism", say Obama entered politics though a "corrupt ploy" and mention "messianic worship" of him and say "he got lucky".

Way to maintain a positive tone, friend.

jbalicki10

nathanastin wrote:

Never said that; just said that's what I thought people were doing.

Once again, the PJ fans fail and cannot resist being ignorant assholes.

No, it shows you cannot treat others as you would like to be treated. Calling people Mindless Sheep and expecting a fair debate is egomanical. It's borderline lunacy.

nothinghead

Oh, you didn't say "mindless sheep."

I get it.

You said "mindless following."

Totally different.

Yes, the point you're making is somewhat valid. But if nearly two years of Barack Obama's campaign and growing support, you don't understand why some people--not all, and not particularly me--are supporting him, then I don't think a few posts on an internet message board are going to be that enlightening.

The short answer that I would posit is that much like Religion, Obama is selling hope. Two entities, mostly supported by the two different sections of the population buying the same product.

HermanBloom

anotherclone wrote:

I thought you asked for no hate filled rants or propaganda? Pretty much your entire post is just that.

You said Obama's following was "mindless", say Obama hasn't "done anything", equate change to "socialism", say Obama entered politics though a "corrupt ploy" and mention "messianic worship" of him and say "he got lucky".

Way to maintain a positive tone, friend.

I said I saw it as mindless, but that's why I posted to get some ideas on why I may be wrong. Has is that hate filled by saying Obama hasn't done anything? He did enter politics through a corrupt play. He did get lucky and may have lost the election without the economy tanking.

jbalicki10

nothinghead wrote:

Oh, you didn't say "mindless sheep."

I get it.

You said "mindless following."

Totally different.

Yes, the point you're making is somewhat valid. But if nearly two years of Barack Obama's campaign and growing support, you don't understand why some people--not all, and not particularly me--are supporting him, then I don't think a few posts on an internet message board are going to be that enlightening.

The short answer that I would posit is that much like Religion, Obama is selling hope. Two entities, mostly supported by the two different sections of the population buying the same product.

Your Quote at the top of this post:
Mindless Sheep? Enlighten Me.....

---

**Please no hate-filled rants and propaganda; just an honest debate and discussion wanted**


Post deleted

Gonzo1977

You make alot of assumptions on a President that hasn't even taken office yet.
You also make alot of claims against the man while have noting to back any of those claims with.

And Lucky?
63.7 Million People voted for Obama

You may call it luck
I call it a landslide

nothinghead

Think you quoted the wrong guy.

HermanBloom

nothinghead wrote:

Oh, you didn't say "mindless sheep."

I get it.

You said "mindless following."

Totally different.

Yes, the point you're making is somewhat valid. But if nearly two years of Barack Obama's campaign and growing support, you don't understand why some people--not all, and not particularly me--are supporting him, then I don't think a few posts on an internet message board are going to be that enlightening.

The short answer that I would posit is that much like Religion, Obama is selling hope. Two entities, mostly supported by the two different sections of the population buying the same product.

So you are saying he is selling hope, which it implies (to me) that he it is not real and he will not give hope. So why do so many people on here bash those that follow religion (i.e. hope) but not bash those that follow this? Aren't they really the same thing. And why are those that follow a religion close-minded?

MayDay10

The sheep would more suitably apply to the 20% of folks who approve of President Bush's job and would continue to follow him off the cliff like lemmings.

During a tough time with the promise of some different policies and attitudes, people are excited and hopeful. I dont see anything wrong with that.

If Obama does a shitty job and people make excuses for him and continue to give him a free pass (which I am sure will happen), then they will be 'sheep'.

But now I wouldnt classify Obama supporters as sheep. They are hopeful

HermanBloom

jbalicki10 wrote:

Your Quote at the top of this post:
Mindless Sheep? Enlighten Me.....

---

**Please no hate-filled rants and propaganda; just an honest debate and discussion wanted**


Post deleted

I was making a reference to how religionists are called mindless sheep, but aren't Obama followers similar to that. It was not an outright attack on anyone. Notice the question mark.

anotherclone

nathanastin wrote:

I said I saw it as mindless, but that's why I posted to get some ideas on why I may be wrong. Has is that hate filled by saying Obama hasn't done anything? He did enter politics through a corrupt play. He did get lucky and may have lost the election without the economy tanking.

Uh no ya didn't. Your quote was "I've never seen such a mindless following".

Potato/potatoh.

Thanks, Mr. Positive!

jimed14

nathanastin wrote:

Never said that; just said that's what I thought people were doing.

Once again, the PJ fans fail and cannot resist being ignorant assholes.

ahh yes, calling people ignorant assholes ... a great way to encourage a debate not fueled by hate.

HermanBloom

MayDay10 wrote:

The sheep would more suitably apply to the 20% of folks who approve of President Bush's job and would continue to follow him off the cliff like lemmings.

During a tough time with the promise of some different policies and attitudes, people are excited and hopeful. I dont see anything wrong with that.

If Obama does a shitty job and people make excuses for him and continue to give him a free pass (which I am sure will happen), then they will be 'sheep'.

But now I wouldnt classify Obama supporters as sheep. They are hopeful

Has Bush done nothing right?

You make good points. I do see a lot of people that have not questioned any of his questionable links, which I brought up in the original post. Actually, no Obama supporter I have personally talked to has acknowledged them or accounted for them.

polaris

nathanastin wrote:

I spewed no hate whatsoever; just pointing out some of my opinions and thoughts. I guess you are too one sided to see that.

if that's what you honestly think - i can understand now why america is divided as much as it is ...

HermanBloom

jimed14 wrote:

ahh yes, calling people ignorant assholes ... a great way to encourage a debate not fueled by hate.

Just replying and was disappointed by the quick degeneration of the free flow of ideas that is completely lacking on here. Tried to start an honest discussion and once again it was completely shut down by philosophers.

HermanBloom

polaris wrote:

if that's what you honestly think - i can understand now why america is divided as much as it is ...

With lack of ideas from your country, I can see why Canada is so stagnant.

Jason P

This post / thread is the equivalent of asking someone to engage in a fair fight and then throwing sand in their eyes before you start pummeling them.

MayDay10

nathanastin wrote:

I was making a reference to how religionists are called mindless sheep, but aren't Obama followers similar to that. It was not an outright attack on anyone. Notice the question mark.

I dont really bash religion, but I get bothered when it becomes visible in politics, particularly federal. I dont know religion that in-depth, but from what I have witnessed, it seems to prevent progressive thinking if the follower is immersed enough in it. Especially when it comes to evolution/creationism, sciences, abortion, gay rights/lack of...

polaris

nathanastin wrote:

With lack of ideas from your country, I can see why Canada is so stagnant.

haha ... please continue to prove me right ... thanks!

jimed14

nathanastin wrote:

Just replying and was disappointed by the quick degeneration of the free flow of ideas that is completely lacking on here. Tried to start an honest discussion and once again it was completely shut down by philosophers.

it was your second post of the thread, you called people ignorant assholes.

you had no intention of a civil debate.

nothinghead

nathanastin wrote:

So you are saying he is selling hope, which it implies (to me) that he it is not real and he will not give hope. So why do so many people on here bash those that follow religion (i.e. hope) but not bash those that follow this? Aren't they really the same thing. And why are those that follow a religion close-minded?

As someone who is neither big on religion or Barack Obama, yes, that's what I am saying. The appeal of both institutions--from my point of view--is that they are both just offering a product. They're both just selling words and ideas--words and ideas meant to make you feel better. You know, hope.

Do good things come from religion? Depends on who you ask. I'll go as far as to say "occasionally." Will Obama affect any real change? To what extent? Well, no one knows yet. It's possible, and for the sake of the country, I hope so. Something tells me after a few years, the answer to that question will be "occasionally." Some places he'll succeed, other places he'll fail.

HermanBloom

Jason P wrote:

This post / thread is the equivalent of asking someone to engage in a fair fight and then throwing sand in their eyes before you start pummeling them.

All anyone has done is attacked me when all I did was simply ask some questions. I have only seen what I thought and have got no answers form anyone. Is that because there are none and my observations are correct?

I guess some of my wording was harsh and for that I am sorry.

HermanBloom

nothinghead wrote:

As someone who is neither big on religion or Barack Obama, yes, that's what I am saying. The appeal of both institutions--from my point of view--is that they are both just offering a product. They're both just selling words and ideas--words and ideas meant to make you feel better. You know, hope.

Do good things come from religion? Depends on who you ask. I'll go as far as to say "occasionally." Will Obama affect any real change? To what extent? Well, no one knows yet. It's possible, and for the sake of the country, I hope so. Something tells me after a few years, the answer to that question will be "occasionally." Some places he'll succeed, other places he'll fail.

I think you may be correct.

HermanBloom

jimed14 wrote:

it was your second post of the thread, you called people ignorant assholes.

you had no intention of a civil debate.

Simply replying to my attack; sorry