Men/Women who stick around (sorry I don't believe the bullshit about being too scared to leave) are just asking for more violence/abuse. My wife would not dare hit I nor I hit her. But being a guy, I know that if she ever hit me with vicious intent she'd be beaten black and blue before she would be calling the cops.
Men/Women who stick around (sorry I don't believe the bullshit about being too scared to leave) are just asking for more violence/abuse. My wife would not dare hit I nor I hit her. But being a guy, I know that if she ever hit me with vicious intent she'd be beaten black and blue before she would be calling the cops.
Thanks for the insight. What if your abuser is living in YOUR house?
You gonna walk out and let them have it?
Men/Women who stick around (sorry I don't believe the bullshit about being too scared to leave) are just asking for more violence/abuse. My wife would not dare hit I nor I hit her. But being a guy, I know that if she ever hit me with vicious intent she'd be beaten black and blue before she would be calling the cops.
if my boyfriend ever hit me with vicous intent (which i am certain he would never do), i would be out of there as fast as i can. i would not stick around. luckily for me i'd have somewhere to go, and i have no children so i guess it would be easier for me to do that than people who may not have support or anywhere to go. one thing i can tell you is that no matter what was done to me, i would not retaliate and attempt to beat him 'black and blue'. his attack on me will have cost him our future together and i would walk away, i'd be broken hearted because i love him, but i would never go back. i would not resort to violence against someone i loved regardless of what they had done to me. how can you love someone one minute then beat them black and blue the next?
if my boyfriend ever hit me with vicous intent (which i am certain he would never do), i would be out of there as fast as i can. i would not stick around. luckily for me i'd have somewhere to go, and i have no children so i guess it would be easier for me to do that than people who may not have support or anywhere to go. one thing i can tell you is that no matter what was done to me, i would not retaliate and attempt to beat him 'black and blue'. his attack on me will have cost him our future together and i would walk away, i'd be broken hearted because i love him, but i would never go back. i would not resort to violence against someone i loved regardless of what they had done to me. how can you love someone one minute then beat them black and blue the next?
How can you even get violent with somebody you love? It would have to start somewhere.
And if you are in a relationship with kids and the abuse has just started (of which I find very hard to swallow), you can't tell me that you wouldn't have one that is ONE friend or family member that you could turn to to help you out of your bad situation. But of course there could be the person who won't tell anybody about the home life in which case you can only blame yourself for sticking around in that kind of situation.
I have been in a relationship for about 18 years and never once have either of us got to the point where we started swinging at each other. I am just stating that if she ever took a swing with a violent anger and connected that my animal instinct would probably take over and she would not like to see that side of me. Kind of like I don't expect to see that side of her.
Thanks for the insight. What if your abuser is living in YOUR house?
You gonna walk out and let them have it?
Abuser living in YOUR house or the house that is owned by both or you. If they are living in your house then you just simply call the police and get out of the relationship. Yeah, somebody is going to mention revenge and stalking but I would bet that the percentage is pretty small compared to the rest of society in that matter. If you haven't realized your dating a fuckhead from about the sixth month then love really is blind.
Abuser living in YOUR house or the house that is owned by both or you. If they are living in your house then you just simply call the police and get out of the relationship. Yeah, somebody is going to mention revenge and stalking but I would bet that the percentage is pretty small compared to the rest of society in that matter. If you haven't realized your dating a fuckhead from about the sixth month then love really is blind.
How bout if you're not in the situation or you have no experience of the situation then you really have NO IDEA what you would do? And really you don't. You might think you know what you'd do and it's easy to say what everybody else should do but until it happens to you you really have no idea.
There's no such thing as "simply" when you're talking about domestic violence. NOTHING about it is simple.
My house, which he'd threatened to torch while I slept in it btw if I called the police or tried to evict him. But go on, you tell me all about what I should have done.
How bout if you're not in the situation or you have no experience of the situation then you really have NO IDEA what you would do? And really you don't. You might think you know what you'd do and it's easy to say what everybody else should do but until it happens to you you really have no idea.
There's no such thing as "simply" when you're talking about domestic violence. NOTHING about it is simple.
My house, which he'd threatened to torch while I slept in it btw if I called the police or tried to evict him. But go on, you tell me all about what I should have done.
I'm not going to tell you what you should do. You found love in the man. He was a great guy. I'll just stop now.
Edit: anyway this is the thread about abuse to men and I stated what I would do. That is why I don't go into the women one.
again i'm not saying that there aren't women that abuse men. once again as i stated in the other thread, how many of those cases of DV against men by women are cases where the woman was fighting back her attacker and both get arrested for domestic violence? once again show me the CONVICTION rates for men for DV as well as for women for DV.
this crap that juries will only listen to women is horseshit; most judges happen to be men. men happen to sit on juries too.
if woman were equally as violent as men wouldn't 40 to 50% of ALL violent crimes be commited by women? where are all of these women that rape, murder, commit child molestion or sexual abuse against another, commit burglaries, armed robberies, commit home invasions, steal cars(dunno if that counts as violent) commit drive-bys, rob banks etc?
I guess when women pull off all off these other violent crimes it almost never gets reported either, huh?
you must be hardened femenist
hmm....i do wonder why Ahnimus did not answer your questions. is it because they were irrelevant? or not good enough for him
I'm not going to tell you what you should do. You found love in the man. He was a great guy. I'll just stop now.
Edit: anyway this is the thread about abuse to men and I stated what I would do. That is why I don't go into the women one.
you edited!
Ok fair enough but there's no reason why you couldn't go into the women one. If you have a view on it you should share it if you want to. Just don't be surprised if people don't agree with you is all.
I would like to elaborate on the opposite Jeanie. Perhaps we should be listening to those that have and don't. If a person has never lashed out in anger, how do they know how to stop it? I have as a child, but not in an adult relationship. Just one time I threw a remote and punched a computer. At that point I'd crossed the line and I knew it, I let the external situation affect my internal situation. To my experience, violence is a means of expressing your discontent with the environment. In my case, my girlfriend was driving me insane with her crazy accusations and demeaning and heightened tone. I never raised my voice with her and tried to stay calm or leave. This time I let myself get annoyed. This time it was 4 AM and I had to work at 7 AM. Maybe I should have sacrificed my job over the incident. It was only a couple of days after that, that she moved out. Up to that point she was the only person who was violently aggressive. Perhaps in her mind I was the aggressor. The only thing I do now is avoid it all together. Avoid conflict everywhere. It's very easy to run into.
i know it's not going to sound nice but sometimes the way to stop violence is to answer back with violence. I know it's not humane but some people just don't understand any other way.
i mean take me for example, i'm person who might swing both ways depends on the partner i'm with though. if i'm with a partner who lets me get away with certain things that i say...then i will push it and start saying more things and in the end who knows might even become aggressive.
if i'm with a partner who manipulates me, then i will find it difficult to stop that...so in turn he will start being agressive, and i will become a victim, because i would probably be scared to answer back.
with me at all depends on the person i'm with. so it's crucial for me to be with a person who is not aggressive but also won't allow me to be aggressive. in other words it sound's like i want the other person to control our relationship and work on it.
How bout if you're not in the situation or you have no experience of the situation then you really have NO IDEA what you would do? And really you don't. You might think you know what you'd do and it's easy to say what everybody else should do but until it happens to you you really have no idea.
i'm with you Jeanie, and this extends to everything, if you haven't been there and actually gone through the same thing you don't know for sure how you will react.
i'm with you Jeanie, and this extends to everything, if you haven't been there and actually gone through the same thing you don't know for sure how you will react.
Okay girls.................So after it happens once, do you still have to think about it? Sit there and let it happen again and again and again while you figure out what to do? Get smooth talked right back into the position that you still need to assess what you need to do? Help me to see the female side on this.
If you almost get hit by a car, you will surely look both ways the next time. If you skid on ice for the first time in your car, you will try not to make that same mistake again. So when he raises a hand to you the second time, you have obviously had some time to think about it and do something about it. Why do you stick around?
if my boyfriend ever hit me with vicous intent (which i am certain he would never do), i would be out of there as fast as i can. i would not stick around. luckily for me i'd have somewhere to go, and i have no children so i guess it would be easier for me to do that than people who may not have support or anywhere to go. one thing i can tell you is that no matter what was done to me, i would not retaliate and attempt to beat him 'black and blue'. his attack on me will have cost him our future together and i would walk away, i'd be broken hearted because i love him, but i would never go back. i would not resort to violence against someone i loved regardless of what they had done to me. how can you love someone one minute then beat them black and blue the next?
Okay girls.................So after it happens once, do you still have to think about it? Sit there and let it happen again and again and again while you figure out what to do? Get smooth talked right back into the position that you still need to assess what you need to do? Help me to see the female side on this.
If you almost get hit by a car, you will surely look both ways the next time. If you skid on ice for the first time in your car, you will try not to make that same mistake again. So when he raises a hand to you the second time, you have obviously had some time to think about it and do something about it. Why do you stick around?
i was never in the situation where i was abused by my partner. i'm also not good in relationship matters at all, as i've got very little experience.
my ex-boyfriend/ex-casual friend started being a complete dick to me, and was verbally agressive and threatning. that's when i said to him that i'm never going to see him again....but then 2 days later i found a reason to call him, so i called him, he said he was busy then i called again and he said the same thing again. then because i knew some sort of unforeseen force was driving me towards him i deleted his number from my phone and my book. so now even if i do want to call him i don't know how. and thank fuck for that!! should've done it earlier
i saw him recently in the pub btw, but because couple months have passed and i still remember how he treated me my urge to be his friend has gone away completely. so both of us acted as if we didn't even know each other.
i was never in the situation where i was abused by my partner. i'm also not good in relationship matters at all, as i've got very little experience.
my ex-boyfriend/ex-casual friend started being a complete dick to me, and was verbally agressive and threatning. that's when i said to him that i'm never going to see him again....but then 2 days later i found a reason to call him, so i called him, he said he was busy then i called again and he said the same thing again. then because i knew some sort of unforeseen force was driving me towards him i deleted his number from my phone and my book. so now even if i do want to call him i don't know how. and thank fuck for that!! should've done it earlier
i saw him recently in the pub btw, but because couple months have passed and i still remember how he treated me my urge to be his friend has gone away completely. so both of us acted as if we didn't even know each other.
Good for you.
I hope you find somebody who treats you the way you either deserve or want to be treated. Communication in a relationship is a good thing.
i'd like to add my support for this subject. i'm so sick of her doing her job on me and occasionally being too careless to watch her teeth properly. i might have to knock them out someday.
Now I have covered both men and women, and apart from potential non-sexual people, I have just said no to all violence. Neat!
Peace
Dan
aye, this is great but how does one catch the Self falling into a pattern.
Would it' be nice to apply the principles in the movie, The Secret, towards preventing participation in DV.
Start a list, write a list, and maintain a list for one's self...
"I will say no to DV" is a great beginning, but like a black hole there are many elements within that statement.
I will encourage loving relations.
*I will notice when my words are demeaning another, even in fun...
or do this mantra:
There is always an opportunity to choose not to
strike out against one another. In your own way,
you can vote for whatever strength or adjustment
is needed for peace. Now that does take great
courage.
Rather than say, "It's too difficult, it's too
challenging to find the peace," choose to say,
"Peace begins with me, right here, right now."
John-Roger told us, "Peace is the cessation of
againstness." I take the againstness and it stops
right here. It ceases with me.
Peace.
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
hmm....i do wonder why Ahnimus did not answer your questions. is it because they were irrelevant? or not good enough for him
It's kind of a loaded question isn't it?
"How do you know the women weren't just fighting back?"
Ok.. how do I know that the women who report domestic violence weren't aggressors and the men were just fighting back? It seems like kind of a stupid question because you don't know either way.
I think it's rather ridiculous that there is so much opposition to believe that men are abused by women. In fact, it's rather hipocritical. This feminist view of reality is really starting to get on my nerves. Three quarters of the posts on this thread are about violence against women, not men.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i'm with you Jeanie, and this extends to everything, if you haven't been there and actually gone through the same thing you don't know for sure how you will react.
I agree. We can learn from other people's experiences to some extent, and we can have a fairly good idea of how we might behave in any given circumstance but really so many things factor in to a particular incident (domestic violence or any incident really) that unless we are actually in the situation, in that moment, we cannot truly know. The other thing is that I think people can respond differently to things on any given day. So what I might do today if confronted by someone could be totally different to how I might react tomorrow in similar circumstances. I just think it's very worthwhile to remember that.
Okay girls.................So after it happens once, do you still have to think about it? Sit there and let it happen again and again and again while you figure out what to do? Get smooth talked right back into the position that you still need to assess what you need to do? Help me to see the female side on this.
If you almost get hit by a car, you will surely look both ways the next time. If you skid on ice for the first time in your car, you will try not to make that same mistake again. So when he raises a hand to you the second time, you have obviously had some time to think about it and do something about it. Why do you stick around?
Well for starters I don't think this only applies to girls but I can only give you my perspective as a girl. Although I do see that it mostly likely applies similarly to men also.
Firstly you need to understand that we are talking emotional attachments here. So you meet someone you fall in love or you really like them and you spend time. This is the same for everyone. You share experiences, you enjoy each others company, you have a "honeymoon" period in the relationship where romance is blossoming, all is good in the world, you develop a strong emotional attachment. (Ryan could probably explain the hormonal and physical science of it better than me)
Then what happens, like in most inter personal relationships, even friendships, people begin to let down their guard. For me in a normal relationship this would be around the time a guy feels comfortable enough around me to fart in my presence! :eek: (never appreciated) So you may bicker a little about things. You've done the romance, connection thing, time to start reasserting your sense of self and seeing if that will fit into the parameters of the relationship. Only if someone who has learned abusive behaviour for them that might mean an escalation in their aggression only. Or revealing that rage and anger a little. And not necessarily directed at their partner. It could be an increase in road rage. A little rant about work or the tax man. There will be subtle change in behaviour. Now to my mind that happens in all relationships. Not necessarily to the extent as it would with an abuser but still it happens that after the honeymoon there is the period of reasserting your sense of self and redefining the boundaries. With someone who has anger issues, imagine what it would do to them to put a lid on it for all the time of your courtship? Imagine how much effort they must go to to keep that side of themselves under wraps from you? And that's what they do too.
Tis natural. They want to be loved. And they know that if the person they want to love them knows about the "ugly" that aint gonna happen. And they know this because the recognize the ugly in themselves and they loathe themselves for it. If they hate it in themselves they know that no one else is going to like it either.
Anyway, so we have a slight escalation with displays of anger not directed at the partner. Now in a normal relationship you might just think ok, not sure I know where this is going but I want to accept you warts and all (because I think I love you) so I'll try to learn and be accepting of this facet of you. Everyone loses their temper at some point. This must be how you do it.
So what is happening is that the potential abuser is finding it harder to wrestle with themselves and the potential victim is making the kind of rationalizations that we all make in the early stages of a relationship. Don't forget after the aggro attack there will be conversation about why and how come the person has got so angry. And I'm sure that again, this is processed and we proceed on. And all the while you will be sharing happy times and good stuff too.
What might happen next is a small incident. Maybe punching furniture, inanimate objects. Again it will be rationalized by both parties. They might even, as I did, organize some counselling for either or both parties.
Then because the "abuser" is finding it harder and harder to control their rage, because all that trying to hide this bad habit is exhausting, they'll probably slip up and maybe push past their partner or erupt in anger at their partner. Screaming in their face, banging doors, maybe pushing, really aggressive and their anger is no longer directed at other people. It's directed at their partner. Perhaps not at anything they did or anything to do with who they are, but now their anger is focused on their partner regardless of the trigger. Now right there is probably where the little bells go off quite a bit louder and sometimes they do. But by then you may be already living together or in circumstances where it's not so easy to just walk away. In my case we were in a hotel a long way from home with only one car and all his stuff was at my house anyway, so even if I had walked out and told him to find his own way home he'd still be turning up to pick up his stuff. And probably more pissed off. So I sucked it up and went against my instinct because by now I'm confused and hurt and hoping to placate him and find some way that we can get past this because when it's good it's excellent. So yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing. I wanted to end it then and there, because we were in the circumstances we were in, I was forced (for want of a better word) to stay in his presence, which gave him the opportunity to apologize profusely and so very sweetly and for me to rationalize and even state quite categorically that it wasn't on and that he'd better never do it again or worse. :rolleyes: Yeah! Right! :rolleyes: That worked!
What will happen after that is a series of incidents that continue to escalate and all the while even if you aren't rationalizing it to yourself, you may not be able to get away for whatever reason or it could just be that you seriously underestimate the threat or don't understand the dynamics of the situation well enough. Now you could start to fight back, you could call the police, you might try to get a family member or friend to have a talk to them. None of which is going to help most likely. And I'd say there's a good chance that you're embarrassed to discover yourself in this situation and struggling with the dawning that despite thinking you'd never put up with this stuff that it appears you might be one of "those" people. A victim. And how the hell did that happen? And more importantly looking at the mess the situation is, him in YOUR house, or you not having anywhere else to go, or not wanting to have to tell anyone because you're ashamed, or he's the father of your child, or how the hell do you tell your mates that your wife is beating the living crap out of you and not have them laugh at you, or knowing that your father if he knew would beat the living shit out of him and probably end up being charged with assault. Or what if you tell the police and the guy is already so enraged with you on occassion that you're not confident that that would do anything more than tip him over the edge and escalate his rage even more. He might not kill you on purpose but he certainly is showing that when he gets mad he is not in control, not rational, cannot be reasoned with, cannot be stopped and the outlet for his rage is you, his punching bag. You that during all these previous displays of aggression and escalating violence have shown tacit acceptance of his behaviour by continuing on with him. A whole bunch of things go on. A whole lot of things go through your mind. And his. (or hers)
So you try to remove yourself from the situation as best you can in the circumstances, you might spend more time at work, make yourself scarce around the house when he is home, tip toe around him trying to placate as best you can until you can see a way out that will suit your circumstances.
As far as I can see ALL of this behaviour is pretty much what anyone would do to a greater or lesser degree if they found themselves in the situation. Male or Female. Aggressor or victim. And if you think it could never happen to you, then I'd suggest you should think again. Try to imagine even, that suddenly after all this time your partner started showing signs of aggression. Someone you love suddenly starts exhibiting some of these behaviours, and escalating. Please don't tell me that all the time you've spent together would suddenly be nothing in your mind and you would KNOW what you would do. I'd suggest that it would take you quite a bit of time to even believe it was happening let alone why or what you could do about it. People rationalize, they are loyal to those they love, they don't want to believe that someone that loves them is also hurting them. And mostly they don't want to believe that they are prepared to make allowances for aberrant behaviour or that the situation has deteriorated significantly. Now I realize that what I'm saying here is based on my personal experience and observations I have made of other people's experience or from case studies I have read so it's not going to pan out like that for everyone. And it's certainly not statistically based or any great phd thesis (well maybe in word count ) BUT there are key elements of human dynamics at play in my scenario that are also at play in day to day life for most people. Try to imagine if this was you and it was your father, your mother, your wife/husband/partner, one of your children. Think about how you interact with those people in your life now and how you resolve conflict and you may see that this kind of thing can happen to anyone, anywhere, anytime. For example, there are elderly people all around the western world that are experiencing anger and frustration from their carers in a lot of cases their children. People that have lived happily and healthily for years and never really been violent can and do crack if the conditions or circumstances are right. And there are people that suffer head injuries, dementia, illnesses that can have them suffering poor impulse control and rage issues as a symptom of their illness that will lash out. Are we saying that as soon as that happens pack em off? I don't think so. I just think this issue is massive and widespread amongst all kinds of people and that no one should be too sure of what they would or wouldn't do until they are in it. I hope that made sense.
Oh and edit, just to answer your analogy. Even the most vigilant pedestrian can get hit by a car, so you could get taken out regardless of whether you looked both ways or not. Same with driving the car in icy conditions. Even with the best of skill and intention you could still experience a problem. AND even supposing that either of these things happen to you and you do change your behaviour after the event to try to avoid such incidents in the future, I'm quite sure it doesn't stop you from being a pedestrian or driving your car entirely does it?
Like most of the American mass media, you have framed the Lorena L. Bobbitt affair as an issue of penile mutilation. You ignore the social context of Lorena Bobbitt's actions.
Prof. Catharine MacKinnon of the University of Michigan and the writer Andrea Dworkin long ago pointed to the institution of marriage as a legal cover for the act of rape and the permanent humiliation of women. Lorena Bobbitt's life has been a poignant instance of that nightmare, which elicited a bold and courageous act of feminist self-defense.
As one who recently returned from a conference of feminist activists in Europe, I can assure readers that the Lorena Bobbitt case has galvanized the women's movement worldwide in a way the Anita Hill case never did. No feminist is advocating emasculation as the weapon of first choice. And some women question the political prudence of "sociosexual vigilantism." But whatever the judgment of America's patriarchal legal system, Lorena Bobbitt is for most feminists no criminal. She is instead a symbol of innovative resistance against gender oppression everywhere.
What an irony that Ecuador, one of the world's most oppressively patriarchal societies, has generated such a potent symbol of female empowerment. STEPHANIE MORRIS Sydney, Australia, Jan. 12, 1994
This is the feminism I'm talking about. Marriage is not a cover for rape and abuse, what a bunch of fucking bullshit. Where do these dumb fucks get this shit from? If this was the other way around the story would be completely different. If a woman was slapping her husband repeatedly and he decked her in the face it would be considered "violence against women", in this case she cut his fucking dick right off and she is hailed as some kind of messiah. Fucking disgusting.
Maybe I'm the only person that sees this or understands it, but something is seriously fucked up when you can read crap like this.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm pretty sure I didn't sleep at all, so I ended up going to work. After I tossed the remote, she severed some cords on my computer and I punched her computer. There was no more violence after that. I don't remember what happened. I probably left, but I can't say for sure. I was escalating though. Normally it was just her and I tried to stay calm. I think it frustrated her more that I was trying to stay calm. I simply wouldn't talk on her level. As soon as she raised her voice I'd say "I'm not going to talk to you that way.". Ironically, I think I could have handled it differently and made it work. But chances are it wouldn't have. I don't blame her. It was a phase in both of our lives that was messed up, but we are both better for doing it. I think she learned a lot and I definitely learned a lot. Police were never involved and I'm glad they weren't. She probably had a lot of pent up aggression from her past and I was the outlet. Maybe it balanced her out. I got to learn first hand what it's like to be on the receiving end of domestic aggression. I had previously been a big aggressor, but I had given it up by the time I met her. Other people in my family destroyed property and attacked each other, but I never thought much of it. It's just a bad day. You can learn something from it too. My dad smashed a bunch of dishes one day to express his point about shared responsibility. Nobody was doing dishes. He verbalized it before that, but I guess it got to him that day. It didn't help his cause though, so he moved out. My brother moved out and I broke up with my girlfriend, so now I live alone... no aggression. That was the story a year ago. I've just had one relationship since then that lasted a few months. We didn't live together though.
That's a really interesting insight Ryan. And so many really interesting points you bring up. Like the self awareness and understanding your own and her actions and motivations. I'm really pleased that you were able to handle it I guess because it's a difficult thing to handle and you do learn a lot about yourself. To be able to recognize your own actions as not your best as well as attempting to diffuse the situation. A really difficult thing to know and learn. I think it's really interesting that you didn't want the police involved because my feelings have been pretty much the same. That unless I'm absolutely backed into a corner I can't see me wanting to involve the police and potentially the courts because I cannot see that it would be of any benefit. I guess that's been my experience so far though. I can't know if I'd involve them in the future or not. It would depend on the situation I guess. The other thing I'm really glad you mentioned was having experienced violent or agressive behaviour from family members. This is something that I have also experienced and I find it an interesting subject. Because I really cannot imagine, humans being what they are, that there is anyone that hasn't experienced some kind of anger issue or agressive behaviour from a family member or close friend at some point in their life, either big or small, a one off or a pattern of behaviour. I could be wrong but it seems to me that as anger is one of the emotions that we as humans are least likely to embrace or find healthy outlets for it seems that we as a race will continue to rage without being able to re educate ourselves. Perpetuating. Then again I wonder if it is such a base instinct that it would be impossible to re educate and find ways for all to handle anger and aggression positively.
Lot to think about anyway. Thanks for sharing that.
Now I'm gonna try to read some of the stuff you posted in the initial post.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Prof. Catharine MacKinnon of the University of Michigan and the writer Andrea Dworkin long ago pointed to the institution of marriage as a legal cover for the act of rape and the permanent humiliation of women.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Thanks for the insight. What if your abuser is living in YOUR house?
You gonna walk out and let them have it?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
How can you even get violent with somebody you love? It would have to start somewhere.
And if you are in a relationship with kids and the abuse has just started (of which I find very hard to swallow), you can't tell me that you wouldn't have one that is ONE friend or family member that you could turn to to help you out of your bad situation. But of course there could be the person who won't tell anybody about the home life in which case you can only blame yourself for sticking around in that kind of situation.
I have been in a relationship for about 18 years and never once have either of us got to the point where we started swinging at each other. I am just stating that if she ever took a swing with a violent anger and connected that my animal instinct would probably take over and she would not like to see that side of me. Kind of like I don't expect to see that side of her.
Abuser living in YOUR house or the house that is owned by both or you. If they are living in your house then you just simply call the police and get out of the relationship. Yeah, somebody is going to mention revenge and stalking but I would bet that the percentage is pretty small compared to the rest of society in that matter. If you haven't realized your dating a fuckhead from about the sixth month then love really is blind.
How bout if you're not in the situation or you have no experience of the situation then you really have NO IDEA what you would do? And really you don't. You might think you know what you'd do and it's easy to say what everybody else should do but until it happens to you you really have no idea.
There's no such thing as "simply" when you're talking about domestic violence. NOTHING about it is simple.
My house, which he'd threatened to torch while I slept in it btw if I called the police or tried to evict him. But go on, you tell me all about what I should have done.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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I'm not going to tell you what you should do. You found love in the man. He was a great guy. I'll just stop now.
Edit: anyway this is the thread about abuse to men and I stated what I would do. That is why I don't go into the women one.
Yeah, good idea.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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you must be hardened femenist
hmm....i do wonder why Ahnimus did not answer your questions. is it because they were irrelevant? or not good enough for him
you edited!
Ok fair enough but there's no reason why you couldn't go into the women one. If you have a view on it you should share it if you want to. Just don't be surprised if people don't agree with you is all.
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i know it's not going to sound nice but sometimes the way to stop violence is to answer back with violence. I know it's not humane but some people just don't understand any other way.
i mean take me for example, i'm person who might swing both ways depends on the partner i'm with though. if i'm with a partner who lets me get away with certain things that i say...then i will push it and start saying more things and in the end who knows might even become aggressive.
if i'm with a partner who manipulates me, then i will find it difficult to stop that...so in turn he will start being agressive, and i will become a victim, because i would probably be scared to answer back.
with me at all depends on the person i'm with. so it's crucial for me to be with a person who is not aggressive but also won't allow me to be aggressive. in other words it sound's like i want the other person to control our relationship and work on it.
i'm with you Jeanie, and this extends to everything, if you haven't been there and actually gone through the same thing you don't know for sure how you will react.
haha, had to quote myself, hehe i've always been a lazy git!
Okay girls.................So after it happens once, do you still have to think about it? Sit there and let it happen again and again and again while you figure out what to do? Get smooth talked right back into the position that you still need to assess what you need to do? Help me to see the female side on this.
If you almost get hit by a car, you will surely look both ways the next time. If you skid on ice for the first time in your car, you will try not to make that same mistake again. So when he raises a hand to you the second time, you have obviously had some time to think about it and do something about it. Why do you stick around?
I would seriously like to date you.
i was never in the situation where i was abused by my partner. i'm also not good in relationship matters at all, as i've got very little experience.
my ex-boyfriend/ex-casual friend started being a complete dick to me, and was verbally agressive and threatning. that's when i said to him that i'm never going to see him again....but then 2 days later i found a reason to call him, so i called him, he said he was busy then i called again and he said the same thing again. then because i knew some sort of unforeseen force was driving me towards him i deleted his number from my phone and my book. so now even if i do want to call him i don't know how. and thank fuck for that!! should've done it earlier
i saw him recently in the pub btw, but because couple months have passed and i still remember how he treated me my urge to be his friend has gone away completely. so both of us acted as if we didn't even know each other.
creep! hehe
Good for you.
I hope you find somebody who treats you the way you either deserve or want to be treated. Communication in a relationship is a good thing.
well, i've already found another guy, but i think we might have some trust issues in the future. on his part of course, cause i can trust him.
Would it' be nice to apply the principles in the movie, The Secret, towards preventing participation in DV.
Start a list, write a list, and maintain a list for one's self...
"I will say no to DV" is a great beginning, but like a black hole there are many elements within that statement.
I will encourage loving relations.
*I will notice when my words are demeaning another, even in fun...
or do this mantra:
There is always an opportunity to choose not to
strike out against one another. In your own way,
you can vote for whatever strength or adjustment
is needed for peace. Now that does take great
courage.
Rather than say, "It's too difficult, it's too
challenging to find the peace," choose to say,
"Peace begins with me, right here, right now."
John-Roger told us, "Peace is the cessation of
againstness." I take the againstness and it stops
right here. It ceases with me.
Peace.
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
It's kind of a loaded question isn't it?
"How do you know the women weren't just fighting back?"
Ok.. how do I know that the women who report domestic violence weren't aggressors and the men were just fighting back? It seems like kind of a stupid question because you don't know either way.
I think it's rather ridiculous that there is so much opposition to believe that men are abused by women. In fact, it's rather hipocritical. This feminist view of reality is really starting to get on my nerves. Three quarters of the posts on this thread are about violence against women, not men.
I agree.
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Well for starters I don't think this only applies to girls but I can only give you my perspective as a girl. Although I do see that it mostly likely applies similarly to men also.
Firstly you need to understand that we are talking emotional attachments here. So you meet someone you fall in love or you really like them and you spend time. This is the same for everyone. You share experiences, you enjoy each others company, you have a "honeymoon" period in the relationship where romance is blossoming, all is good in the world, you develop a strong emotional attachment. (Ryan could probably explain the hormonal and physical science of it better than me)
Then what happens, like in most inter personal relationships, even friendships, people begin to let down their guard. For me in a normal relationship this would be around the time a guy feels comfortable enough around me to fart in my presence! :eek: (never appreciated) So you may bicker a little about things. You've done the romance, connection thing, time to start reasserting your sense of self and seeing if that will fit into the parameters of the relationship. Only if someone who has learned abusive behaviour for them that might mean an escalation in their aggression only. Or revealing that rage and anger a little. And not necessarily directed at their partner. It could be an increase in road rage. A little rant about work or the tax man. There will be subtle change in behaviour. Now to my mind that happens in all relationships. Not necessarily to the extent as it would with an abuser but still it happens that after the honeymoon there is the period of reasserting your sense of self and redefining the boundaries. With someone who has anger issues, imagine what it would do to them to put a lid on it for all the time of your courtship? Imagine how much effort they must go to to keep that side of themselves under wraps from you? And that's what they do too.
Tis natural. They want to be loved. And they know that if the person they want to love them knows about the "ugly" that aint gonna happen. And they know this because the recognize the ugly in themselves and they loathe themselves for it. If they hate it in themselves they know that no one else is going to like it either.
Anyway, so we have a slight escalation with displays of anger not directed at the partner. Now in a normal relationship you might just think ok, not sure I know where this is going but I want to accept you warts and all (because I think I love you) so I'll try to learn and be accepting of this facet of you. Everyone loses their temper at some point. This must be how you do it.
So what is happening is that the potential abuser is finding it harder to wrestle with themselves and the potential victim is making the kind of rationalizations that we all make in the early stages of a relationship. Don't forget after the aggro attack there will be conversation about why and how come the person has got so angry. And I'm sure that again, this is processed and we proceed on. And all the while you will be sharing happy times and good stuff too.
What might happen next is a small incident. Maybe punching furniture, inanimate objects. Again it will be rationalized by both parties. They might even, as I did, organize some counselling for either or both parties.
Then because the "abuser" is finding it harder and harder to control their rage, because all that trying to hide this bad habit is exhausting, they'll probably slip up and maybe push past their partner or erupt in anger at their partner. Screaming in their face, banging doors, maybe pushing, really aggressive and their anger is no longer directed at other people. It's directed at their partner. Perhaps not at anything they did or anything to do with who they are, but now their anger is focused on their partner regardless of the trigger. Now right there is probably where the little bells go off quite a bit louder and sometimes they do. But by then you may be already living together or in circumstances where it's not so easy to just walk away. In my case we were in a hotel a long way from home with only one car and all his stuff was at my house anyway, so even if I had walked out and told him to find his own way home he'd still be turning up to pick up his stuff. And probably more pissed off. So I sucked it up and went against my instinct because by now I'm confused and hurt and hoping to placate him and find some way that we can get past this because when it's good it's excellent. So yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing. I wanted to end it then and there, because we were in the circumstances we were in, I was forced (for want of a better word) to stay in his presence, which gave him the opportunity to apologize profusely and so very sweetly and for me to rationalize and even state quite categorically that it wasn't on and that he'd better never do it again or worse. :rolleyes: Yeah! Right! :rolleyes: That worked!
What will happen after that is a series of incidents that continue to escalate and all the while even if you aren't rationalizing it to yourself, you may not be able to get away for whatever reason or it could just be that you seriously underestimate the threat or don't understand the dynamics of the situation well enough. Now you could start to fight back, you could call the police, you might try to get a family member or friend to have a talk to them. None of which is going to help most likely. And I'd say there's a good chance that you're embarrassed to discover yourself in this situation and struggling with the dawning that despite thinking you'd never put up with this stuff that it appears you might be one of "those" people. A victim. And how the hell did that happen? And more importantly looking at the mess the situation is, him in YOUR house, or you not having anywhere else to go, or not wanting to have to tell anyone because you're ashamed, or he's the father of your child, or how the hell do you tell your mates that your wife is beating the living crap out of you and not have them laugh at you, or knowing that your father if he knew would beat the living shit out of him and probably end up being charged with assault. Or what if you tell the police and the guy is already so enraged with you on occassion that you're not confident that that would do anything more than tip him over the edge and escalate his rage even more. He might not kill you on purpose but he certainly is showing that when he gets mad he is not in control, not rational, cannot be reasoned with, cannot be stopped and the outlet for his rage is you, his punching bag. You that during all these previous displays of aggression and escalating violence have shown tacit acceptance of his behaviour by continuing on with him. A whole bunch of things go on. A whole lot of things go through your mind. And his. (or hers)
So you try to remove yourself from the situation as best you can in the circumstances, you might spend more time at work, make yourself scarce around the house when he is home, tip toe around him trying to placate as best you can until you can see a way out that will suit your circumstances.
As far as I can see ALL of this behaviour is pretty much what anyone would do to a greater or lesser degree if they found themselves in the situation. Male or Female. Aggressor or victim. And if you think it could never happen to you, then I'd suggest you should think again. Try to imagine even, that suddenly after all this time your partner started showing signs of aggression. Someone you love suddenly starts exhibiting some of these behaviours, and escalating. Please don't tell me that all the time you've spent together would suddenly be nothing in your mind and you would KNOW what you would do. I'd suggest that it would take you quite a bit of time to even believe it was happening let alone why or what you could do about it. People rationalize, they are loyal to those they love, they don't want to believe that someone that loves them is also hurting them. And mostly they don't want to believe that they are prepared to make allowances for aberrant behaviour or that the situation has deteriorated significantly. Now I realize that what I'm saying here is based on my personal experience and observations I have made of other people's experience or from case studies I have read so it's not going to pan out like that for everyone. And it's certainly not statistically based or any great phd thesis (well maybe in word count
Oh and edit, just to answer your analogy. Even the most vigilant pedestrian can get hit by a car, so you could get taken out regardless of whether you looked both ways or not. Same with driving the car in icy conditions. Even with the best of skill and intention you could still experience a problem. AND even supposing that either of these things happen to you and you do change your behaviour after the event to try to avoid such incidents in the future, I'm quite sure it doesn't stop you from being a pedestrian or driving your car entirely does it?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Like most of the American mass media, you have framed the Lorena L. Bobbitt affair as an issue of penile mutilation. You ignore the social context of Lorena Bobbitt's actions.
Prof. Catharine MacKinnon of the University of Michigan and the writer Andrea Dworkin long ago pointed to the institution of marriage as a legal cover for the act of rape and the permanent humiliation of women. Lorena Bobbitt's life has been a poignant instance of that nightmare, which elicited a bold and courageous act of feminist self-defense.
As one who recently returned from a conference of feminist activists in Europe, I can assure readers that the Lorena Bobbitt case has galvanized the women's movement worldwide in a way the Anita Hill case never did. No feminist is advocating emasculation as the weapon of first choice. And some women question the political prudence of "sociosexual vigilantism." But whatever the judgment of America's patriarchal legal system, Lorena Bobbitt is for most feminists no criminal. She is instead a symbol of innovative resistance against gender oppression everywhere.
What an irony that Ecuador, one of the world's most oppressively patriarchal societies, has generated such a potent symbol of female empowerment. STEPHANIE MORRIS Sydney, Australia, Jan. 12, 1994
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A01E5DE1430F93AA25752C0A962958260
This is the feminism I'm talking about. Marriage is not a cover for rape and abuse, what a bunch of fucking bullshit. Where do these dumb fucks get this shit from? If this was the other way around the story would be completely different. If a woman was slapping her husband repeatedly and he decked her in the face it would be considered "violence against women", in this case she cut his fucking dick right off and she is hailed as some kind of messiah. Fucking disgusting.
Maybe I'm the only person that sees this or understands it, but something is seriously fucked up when you can read crap like this.
That's a really interesting insight Ryan. And so many really interesting points you bring up. Like the self awareness and understanding your own and her actions and motivations. I'm really pleased that you were able to handle it I guess because it's a difficult thing to handle and you do learn a lot about yourself. To be able to recognize your own actions as not your best as well as attempting to diffuse the situation. A really difficult thing to know and learn. I think it's really interesting that you didn't want the police involved because my feelings have been pretty much the same. That unless I'm absolutely backed into a corner I can't see me wanting to involve the police and potentially the courts because I cannot see that it would be of any benefit. I guess that's been my experience so far though. I can't know if I'd involve them in the future or not. It would depend on the situation I guess. The other thing I'm really glad you mentioned was having experienced violent or agressive behaviour from family members. This is something that I have also experienced and I find it an interesting subject. Because I really cannot imagine, humans being what they are, that there is anyone that hasn't experienced some kind of anger issue or agressive behaviour from a family member or close friend at some point in their life, either big or small, a one off or a pattern of behaviour. I could be wrong but it seems to me that as anger is one of the emotions that we as humans are least likely to embrace or find healthy outlets for it seems that we as a race will continue to rage without being able to re educate ourselves. Perpetuating. Then again I wonder if it is such a base instinct that it would be impossible to re educate and find ways for all to handle anger and aggression positively.
Lot to think about anyway. Thanks for sharing that.
Now I'm gonna try to read some of the stuff you posted in the initial post.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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The currents will shift
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Z8j4QJ0oiY
huh?
It doesn't have to make sense.
as long as it's not just me.