Saay NO to violence against men!
Ahnimus
Posts: 10,560
Statistics About Domestic Abuse And Violence Against Men
Very little in known about the actual number of men who are in a domestic relationship in which they are abused or treated violently by women. In 100 domestic violence situations approximately 40 cases involve violence by women against men. An estimated 400,000 women per year are abused or treated violently in the United States by their spouse or intimate partner. This means that roughly 300,000 to 400,000 men are treated violently by their wife or girl friend.
For more information see http://www.dvmen.org
Why Do We Know So Little About Domestic Abuse And Violence Against Men?
There are many reasons why we don't know more about domestic abuse and violence against men. First of all, the incidence of domestic violence reported men appears to be so low that it is hard to get reliable estimates. In addition, it has taken years of advocacy and support to encourage women to report domestic violence. Virtually nothing has been done to encourage men to report abuse. The idea that men could be victims of domestic abuse and violence is so unthinkable that many men will not even attempt to report the situation.
The dynamic of domestic abuse and violence is also different between men and women. The reasons, purposes and motivations are often very different between sexes. Although the counseling and psychological community have responded to domestic abuse and violence against women, there has been very little investment in resources to address and understand the issues of domestic abuse and violence against men. In most cases, the actual physical damage inflicted by men is so much greater than the actual physical harm inflected by women. The impact of domestic violence is less apparent and less likely to come to the attention of others when men are abused. For example, it is assumed than a man with a bruise or black eye was in a fight with another man or was injured on the job or playing contact sports. Even when men do report domestic abuse and violence, most people are so astonished men usually end up feeling like nobody believes them.
The Problem With Assumptions About Domestic Abuse And Violence
It is a widely held assumption that women are always the victims and men are always the perpetrators. Between 50 and 60% of all domestic abuse and violence is against women. There are many reasons why people assume men are never victims and why women often ignore the possibility. For one thing, domestic abuse and violence has been minimized, justified and ignored for a very long time. Women are now more organized, supportive and outspoken about the epidemic of domestic abuse and violence against women. Very little attention has been paid to the issue of domestic abuse and violence against men - especially because violence against women has been so obvious and was ignored for so long.
cont...
http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm
Very little in known about the actual number of men who are in a domestic relationship in which they are abused or treated violently by women. In 100 domestic violence situations approximately 40 cases involve violence by women against men. An estimated 400,000 women per year are abused or treated violently in the United States by their spouse or intimate partner. This means that roughly 300,000 to 400,000 men are treated violently by their wife or girl friend.
For more information see http://www.dvmen.org
Why Do We Know So Little About Domestic Abuse And Violence Against Men?
There are many reasons why we don't know more about domestic abuse and violence against men. First of all, the incidence of domestic violence reported men appears to be so low that it is hard to get reliable estimates. In addition, it has taken years of advocacy and support to encourage women to report domestic violence. Virtually nothing has been done to encourage men to report abuse. The idea that men could be victims of domestic abuse and violence is so unthinkable that many men will not even attempt to report the situation.
The dynamic of domestic abuse and violence is also different between men and women. The reasons, purposes and motivations are often very different between sexes. Although the counseling and psychological community have responded to domestic abuse and violence against women, there has been very little investment in resources to address and understand the issues of domestic abuse and violence against men. In most cases, the actual physical damage inflicted by men is so much greater than the actual physical harm inflected by women. The impact of domestic violence is less apparent and less likely to come to the attention of others when men are abused. For example, it is assumed than a man with a bruise or black eye was in a fight with another man or was injured on the job or playing contact sports. Even when men do report domestic abuse and violence, most people are so astonished men usually end up feeling like nobody believes them.
The Problem With Assumptions About Domestic Abuse And Violence
It is a widely held assumption that women are always the victims and men are always the perpetrators. Between 50 and 60% of all domestic abuse and violence is against women. There are many reasons why people assume men are never victims and why women often ignore the possibility. For one thing, domestic abuse and violence has been minimized, justified and ignored for a very long time. Women are now more organized, supportive and outspoken about the epidemic of domestic abuse and violence against women. Very little attention has been paid to the issue of domestic abuse and violence against men - especially because violence against women has been so obvious and was ignored for so long.
cont...
http://www.oregoncounseling.org/Handouts/DomesticViolenceMen.htm
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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Hail, Hail!!!
How about a stab in the chest? Or a frying pan to the head? I think Loraina is out of jail now looking for a new hubby.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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That's the thing with them crazy chicks... they are usually wild fucks.. but you run the risk of having them plunge a gardening tool into your forehead the next morning. Kinda lets you know what it's like to be a male Praying Mantis... one minute you're banging her brains out.. the next minute... she is eating your brains.
...
But... I still need a good spanking.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yea! Of course.
Cool. :cool: I'm just catching up on the reading.
And I was really pleased to see that there is that article from Erin Pizzy on the first link.
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This paper discusses the effect of false or misleading statistics on the law of domestic violence. Semiotics deals with communicative action. The communicative action here is the mass dissemination of unfounded statistics.
Some journalists and feminists have led the public to believe that many men and almost no women are physically abusive towards their mates (McNeely and Robinson-Simpson, 1987). The truth of the matter is that women hit their mates as often as men do, (Gelles and Straus, 1988; George, 1994).
If legislators and judges had known the truth, they might not have favored the changes they have made in the law (Brott, 1994). However, these changes in law and practice might be desirable even if they would not have happened without the mass deception of the public (Weiss and Young, 1996). From a lawyer's point of view the most regrettable change is that procedural due process has gone out the window. All accusations are believed and sweeping orders are granted ex parte (Young, 1998).
The publicists have succeeded in altering public opinion so that juries are too willing to acquit female killers and governors are too willing to pardon them (Young, 1997). This effect may also be rather regrettable but it does not affect nearly so many people as the trashing of due process does.
Another semiotical angle is the dramatization of truthful statistics. For example, for a few years mate-to-mate homicides were running at about 2,100 per year, 1,400 dead women, 700 dead men. This was presented as: "Every day in this country four women are killed by men who say they loved them." No mention is made of the two men killed every day by women who had said they loved the men they later killed.
The Justice Department began keeping track of murder by intimates in 1976. For that year 1,357 men were killed and 1,600 women, 46% men, 54% women. The figures for 1996 were 516 male victims and 1,326 women, 28% men, 72% women (Greenfeld, 1998, p. 37). These 1,842 murders are about 9% of all murders in the United States. Over the years, men and black women are getting killed less frequently.
Rhetorical Statistics And Domestic Violence Law by John P. Rooney, J.D.
Timing love.
I've been banging about here for 7 hours already, one does get fatigued and you have supplied a lot of information. And we are getting to the quiet time on the board.
Just have a bit of patience. You never know? It might take off over night!
Want me to say something controversial to get the ball rolling!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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No...please! let me be the one!!!
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
The more time a person takes to know him/herself, the more he/she will learn to find a center beam and ride turbulent waves with ease...Like dancing in a storm...
What happens when an abuser doesn't have a victim? Chances are the person will mutilate the self and manifest symptoms in many forms. I don't think domestic violence is perpetrated by gender; it's frustration level.
ps. if I am speaking out of turn, please feel free to say so..it is not my wish to interupt anyone's flow...peace. thanks good to see you
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
i wonder what ever happened to that crazy chick.
I hate that I'm attracted to fucking psychos...
Why of course!
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So what do you think is the main cause?
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I think it's learned behaviour and a way of coping for some people. That they cannot express their anger or frustration in a healthy way.
But I do think that in order to unlearn the behaviour a lot more resources need to be put in place. I do think that some intervention is needed in a lot of cases because it really is a difficult thing for some people to "unlearn". Particularly if they continue on in the relationship with the person they have abused.
And no you're not interrupting my flow. I'm glad you spoke and it's good to see you too.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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The main cause? I don't think there is one. I think every situation is unique in many ways. A lot of DV might be caused by poor communication, or an unrelenting participant. For example, there were times I wanted to beat the shit out of my ex because she wouldn't shut the fuck up. Instead, I sat and listened to it while repeating my own mantra. It was even worse when her mother joined in. You know, that nagging and demeaning tangent women get into when they are upset. That could be a huge contributor right there.
My brother and his fiancee had a misunderstanding a couple of weeks ago. I was over there when they were talking about it. It was mostly just her yelling at him like "You do what I tell you.". In the end my brother ends up saying "Ok, I won't fuck up next time." and I'm thinking this is a disgrace, it's pathetic in more ways than one. I like them both, but damn, he's being abused and it won't end, he won't leave and neither will she.
Ah, good ol DV...this is a class I have been both a perpetrator as well as my own victim..
We want to look at outside influences so we dont have to step up to the bar. It's easier to blame someone else. But if we stop and think about being completely alone and we build up frustrations, we end up taking it out by throwing a plate or kicking a wall, or in my case playing chicken...(self mutilization) The problem with any of these issues is once people decide someoen else is to be the keeper, then we let go of our free will...I don't have the answers for others but I do believe that the manifestations from DV are like a virus of a different sort.
Do you think this is conditioned response? YOu forgot to put out the part where the parnters make excuses for eachothers intolerable and demeaning behavior...sound like codependence there...
My question to you is, do you think that sometimes we exalt our "loved" ones and then when they don't act as if we expect them to, we feel like we have to make excuses for their undesirable behavior? Why do we tolerate idiocy in the name of love? It can't be love because love knows no harm...
I was at a party awhile back and I was sitting in a corner. There was a woman at a bar...she was literally pointing her finger on the man's chest, bellowing some explicitives. This went on for about 5 minutes. I remember feeling so awkward, like I wanted to stop her...He let her continue on and on..
I figured by the looks of them...She was in her 30s and he was well into his 50's, that there must be an ulterior motive for his tolerance. Becaasue most of the men I know, would just have walked away...it was truthfully unnerving for me...
Every action has a benefit or a consequence.
The one tid bit of advice I learned in these situations is to remove yourself...That's easy and takes no discussion...In California there is no law that says a person cannot destroy their own legal property, so if the house is gone, BE Happy...you still have your life.
For guys who are subjected to DV, I would recommend the same advice that is given to women. If you are in a situation, then always have yourself an emergency pak ready so you can make a quik escape. An overnight bag and atleast 100. in cash for refuge...
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
But do you think it's just that people have learned that way of communicating and it would then stand to reason that they could "unlearn" it or replace it with a more positive communication style?
I don't think that just women do the nagging demeaning tangent. I can distinctly remember a week long episode here about me stupidly forgetting to buy Vegemite. :rolleyes:
It's shitty behaviour no matter who is doing it.
Ryan did you ever stand up, assert your boundaries and leave or ask them to stop? I'm just curious.
Although I do know about the mantra. Had one of my own.
Well I know this game. I've observed it with a close family member and it's really shitful to watch. But I do tend to speak up when it's going on around me and say exactly what I think to both parties. It's hard when you like them both to sit silently and watch while that kind of shit goes on. Best option I reckon is not to be a silent witness but obviously you're in the situation so are better able to judge what's the best course of action.
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This takes a lot of diligence, and commitment to the self before anyone can change or "unlearn" this behavior. Most people are busy prioritizing other activities.
sorry, i couldn't resist...
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Gee, I'm really stoked you said that melodious, because I always felt like I'd been infected by the rage virus for a long time after my ex and I finally went seperate ways. I used to wonder that I hadn't somehow managed to breathe in his anger because I found myself manifesting it myself. It was such a difficult thing to get rid of.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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Yes! I agree. I was kinda thinking that perhaps people could relearn or unlearn the same as say an alcoholic or a smoker?
I guess because I don't view abusers as monsters just seriously fucked up people right now with a seriously bad habit. But it's not like they're able to be "bad" 24/7 right? I mean nobody can be one way 24/7. We're all light and shade, good and bad.
I just see that we spend a lot of time blaming, and punishing for violence and it doesn't really seem to be working. So I wonder if we could commit people to other kinds of programs? Ones where they learn what they need to fulfill themselves and live happy lives that don't require them to erupt in violence when they're angry?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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but how do we help others. i mean once we start to see ourselves in a better light...who's to choose who is gonna provide method and means to healing, especially when there is a level of resistence?
I can honestly say that my path has been full of rage, anger, confusion..(narcissistic) until a few weeks ago when I realized that the only being that could carry my flack is our Creator, God or some other receptacle. If I throw my grief out in the universe..(let go) then I have come to feel that I am seeding toxins for another to recieve (disbursement). When I broke it down in my head in these terms, I decided that the only way I could disburse the "raw" is by giving it to my God...and since that day, I have been able to really allow myself to become centered. We do have choices we can make...
Call me weak, but if I really wanna be responsible and individual human, then I need a crutch. But atleast this crutch isn't more abuse manifested in yet another cycle of distress or as they say, inner drama...
I have watched couples that I care about interact. Sometimes one of the partners will demean the others interest in order to reign control. What happens once one of the partners begins to see and that "said" partner begins to outgrow or become intolerate of such condescention? And let's even take this to a bit more platonic of relationship....when it is a friend...
Learning to respect others and to become more gentle in spirit is key...
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
again i'm not saying that there aren't women that abuse men. once again as i stated in the other thread, how many of those cases of DV against men by women are cases where the woman was fighting back her attacker and both get arrested for domestic violence? once again show me the CONVICTION rates for men for DV as well as for women for DV.
this crap that juries will only listen to women is horseshit; most judges happen to be men. men happen to sit on juries too.
if woman were equally as violent as men wouldn't 40 to 50% of ALL violent crimes be commited by women? where are all of these women that rape, murder, commit child molestion or sexual abuse against another, commit burglaries, armed robberies, commit home invasions, steal cars(dunno if that counts as violent) commit drive-bys, rob banks etc?
I guess when women pull off all off these other violent crimes it almost never gets reported either, huh?
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I just got home and I got a big coffee here. So I'm good to go.
When we are talking about learned behavior, so-called, we are talking about behavior that has a history of reinforcement. At least, so long as we accept some other concepts as true. Ultimately, we need congruence in our fundamentals. I hold that a fact is true if it is scientifically demonstrable. Statistics can fool statisticians and a common argument is "correlation does not mean causation". These presupposed truths are going to be a problem for any debate. The correlation coefficient of the statistics available at statscan is .33, 1 shows a positive relationship, -1 shows a negative relationship. The coefficient for most stats available to us is non-existent. Meaining the correlation coefficient for a study cited in a news article is not readily available to us. It could be .01 or some other absurd value. But to get to the nitty gritty of social issues we need statistics. Certainly we can't just base everything on our own personal experiences. We can't define a truth for society without a consensus of experience. So, if popular culture emphasizes one aspect of an issue like domestic violence, but not another, that does not mean that either is true or not true prima facie. Understanding of social issues must go beyond received wisdom, popular culture or personal experience.
The best measures we have of domestic violence support the theory that men are victims of female violence. We know that many incidences are reported, we can guess that many might not be. Just like we don't know how many women don't report it. I am a non-violent person, I detest violence, yet, I've found violent relationships.
In my experience... the girl I loved was living with me and casually chatting with guys online. I became jealous, which is a bad thing, and logged her chats. Some of the conversation bothered me. Other things started happening too. She began accusing me of all kinds of insane things. She had some relationships that were particularly bad, or at least, she thought they were. She may have been reflecting those bad relationships on me, thinking I was like all the rest. Or maybe I was like all the rest and nothing she said was true. I don't know. But having a woman you love gradually degrade you and dominate you to the point of physical threats is terrible. It happens because I allowed it, because I was weak, young love, I was naive. She was experienced and didn't want to be the underdog anymore.
The other thing too is that some girls have the fear ingrained into them at birth. If a girl's mother goes through a divorce, their might be a period of time where she says a lot of derogatory things about men. It happened in my family. Everyone is justified in their own minds. No one ever thinks they are the problem, because they never are. I'll just say shortly, I don't think free-will exists. If you look at the grand scheme it's not so confusing. The hard part is getting all the information. I think, a lot of the problem is categorical. I saw a television ad for the london's abused women's center or something just a few minutes ago. It was typical, a guy beating up his wife for talking to a friend on the phone. I thought, if lesbians are more likely (according to our best evidence) to abuse each other, then why did they have a man in the ad? I think, because it's a stereotypical scenario. It's not that the opposite doesn't happen. It's just that it's not the stereotype. Children are included in the stereotype. Women and Children abuse centers. Men are segregated. Yea, we have our abuse clinics, not many, and it's not like the abuse of women and children. It's categorically different because it doesn't fit the stereotype, the common image of domestic violence that is implicitly embedded into most minds. Men, who are victims of abuse, may not even understand that they are victims. They might reject the idea because it doesn't compliment their idea of what a "man" is. This is all the result of a fucked up society.
Regardless of statistics v. personal experience this seems to keep happening. So to my way of thinking DESPITE all the academics viewing it and theorizing, DESPITE any gathered statistics, DESPITE all the contributions to the issue from Men, Women, Children, Doctors, Shelter Workers, Police, The Judiciary.
DESPITE all that, this keeps happening. So one would have to ask why that is? I don't believe that there are particular people that are abusers and will always be abusers just as I don't believe that if you are a victim you'll always be a victim. So if people have the potential for change as they learn and experience, HOW can we as a society teach and educate people NOW to stop potential abusers and victims in the future? Because this thing seems to me to just keep perpetuating and that's not getting anyone anywhere.
I don't believe it's impossible either. I do think the potential for violence is in all of us, but how is it that some use it as a response and others do not? And why is it that some continue to use it, whereas there are people that go through their whole life never lifting a finger to another human being or animal? To my way of thinking those that do not express their anger and frustration with violence have a lot to show those of us that do and have.
What is it about them that we need to learn?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
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That's a valid point. About those that have but now refrain. And I agree there's much to learn from that perspective, but I'm not sure your avoidance is really going to help in the long run is it? I mean I understand what your saying and it's a good plan but I don't know that it's a long term life plan if you catch my drift? It relies too heavily on you ALWAYS being able to get yourself out of situations where there is an aggressor. I'm not sure that's always do-able. And aside from that, you can't always spend your life avoiding particular aggressors. Well you can, but what if they're your family for instance?
Also I'd like to know about these people that have never hit, those that have never lashed out in anger. Because it's not really possibly that they're never angry surely? So is it that they are less likely to get angry or is it that they do get angry but they have learned a coping mechanism that doesn't include lashing out? Do they have some insight into anger inadvertantly that stops it in their case from escalating to rage and lashing out?
The other thing is I don't know that throwing a remote or punching a computer are such bad options. I mean obviously the overwhelming response from you was that you felt out of control and I can understand that but of all the choices you could have made those don't seem to be the worst, so what do you think stopped you from escalating it OR doing something that provided the impetus for her to escalate her response?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm pretty sure I didn't sleep at all, so I ended up going to work. After I tossed the remote, she severed some cords on my computer and I punched her computer. There was no more violence after that. I don't remember what happened. I probably left, but I can't say for sure. I was escalating though. Normally it was just her and I tried to stay calm. I think it frustrated her more that I was trying to stay calm. I simply wouldn't talk on her level. As soon as she raised her voice I'd say "I'm not going to talk to you that way.". Ironically, I think I could have handled it differently and made it work. But chances are it wouldn't have. I don't blame her. It was a phase in both of our lives that was messed up, but we are both better for doing it. I think she learned a lot and I definitely learned a lot. Police were never involved and I'm glad they weren't. She probably had a lot of pent up aggression from her past and I was the outlet. Maybe it balanced her out. I got to learn first hand what it's like to be on the receiving end of domestic aggression. I had previously been a big aggressor, but I had given it up by the time I met her. Other people in my family destroyed property and attacked each other, but I never thought much of it. It's just a bad day. You can learn something from it too. My dad smashed a bunch of dishes one day to express his point about shared responsibility. Nobody was doing dishes. He verbalized it before that, but I guess it got to him that day. It didn't help his cause though, so he moved out. My brother moved out and I broke up with my girlfriend, so now I live alone... no aggression. That was the story a year ago. I've just had one relationship since then that lasted a few months. We didn't live together though.
Now I have covered both men and women, and apart from potential non-sexual people, I have just said no to all violence. Neat!
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965