Proper English

Nickrand

Ahnimus wrote:

The other thing that tends to irk me is saying "Irregardless" this is not a real word and is a double-negative.

This is a run-on sentence.

Smellyman2

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok, this is the part where I make myself look like a dick.

I've recently learned the brain handles language in two different regions. One is expressive and one in comprehensive. Damage to one or both of these areas can cause difficulties with language. The comprehensive region is responsible for understanding grammar amongst other things. Damage to either of these regions (and perhaps underdevelopment) is called aphasia. Some aphasics are almost completely incapable of expressing themselves and/or comprehending language.

Recent studies show that a child suffering from brain damage due to stroke can compensate for this loss through brain development. While an adult suffering from damage to these regions is shit out of luck.

Perhaps some of us simply aren't capable of understanding the complexity of language grammar. Those same people may as well understand musical grammar, as seperate regions of the brain handle this function. Although Broca's area handles some of both language and musical grammar.

In conclusion it may not always be a person's fault if their grammar isn't perfect. There are varrying degrees of brain damage and brain development varies as well. On the other hand, some people just don't give a shit about language.

I just watched a show where they removed one half of two young kids (3 or 4) brains because of damage to one side. They had to relearn everything, but are capable of adapting w/ only one half.

amazing.

Sonja_S

Ahnimus wrote:

I've never heard of 'Rechtschreibreform' but I can guess what it is

My problem with German grammar is where to place words in a sentence.

Like does the verb always go at the end of the sentence.

"will you for me to the store go?" as an example.

I don't always get it and I am still having a problem with the word "Los" in this particular sentence. "Bitte frag' mich nicht, was los mit mir ist"

I understand it as "Please, don't ask me, what fortune is with me" but again, "Los" has so many meanings.

Rechtschreibreform means spelling reform. They just changed the way things are spelled, then they changed some stuff back and the discussion never ends. I refuse to accept the reform, it's stupid to change a language instead of letting it evolve.

German grammar is extremely hard. I have the utmost respect for everyone who takes on that language. I find Ed speaking German in Vienna funny for example because whoever translated the messages for him, didn't quite manage grammar either

'will you for me to the store go?' as you wrote would be different in Austria. We'd say 'go you to the store for me?'. We also use cases and articles differently.

Los has a lot of meanings. In the case of 'Bitte frag mich nicht, was los mit mir ist', it's part of 'los sein' (going on) as an expression. And then of course there's Los with a capital L

Most native speakers have problems with German grammar too, so whatever you say or write in German, you can be proud of yourself and know that there are tons of Germans in talk shows whose language skills are inferior to yours

Jackhammer

Definitly.

I'm not german, but lived there. Grammar is definitly some of the hardet stuff I had to learn, and still didn't got it right.

Meine meinung nach, es ist schwein schwer

Nickrand

Ahnimus wrote:

I've never heard of 'Rechtschreibreform' but I can guess what it is

My problem with German grammar is where to place words in a sentence.

Like does the verb always go at the end of the sentence.

"will you for me to the store go?" as an example.

German is difficult to learn as a second language, particularly its grammar. I've lived in Germany for six months and still struggle with the placement of verbs. Basically, the verb either must come in the second position of a sentence or at the very end. This doesn't mean it has to be the second WORD in the sentence. Rather, it has to be the second element. Otherwise, it comes last.

This site explains it well:

http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa032700a.htm

decides2dream

possessive and plural seems to be an issue lately. something that is plural just gets an 's'...it doesn't get an apostrophe too. seems grossly misused lately. eh well.

Ahnimus

Sonja_S wrote:

Rechtschreibreform means spelling reform. They just changed the way things are spelled, then they changed some stuff back and the discussion never ends. I refuse to accept the reform, it's stupid to change a language instead of letting it evolve.

German grammar is extremely hard. I have the utmost respect for everyone who takes on that language. I find Ed speaking German in Vienna funny for example because whoever translated the messages for him, didn't quite manage grammar either

'will you for me to the store go?' as you wrote would be different in Austria. We'd say 'go you to the store for me?'. We also use cases and articles differently.

Los has a lot of meanings. In the case of 'Bitte frag mich nicht, was los mit mir ist', it's part of 'los sein' (going on) as an expression. And then of course there's Los with a capital L

Most native speakers have problems with German grammar too, so whatever you say or write in German, you can be proud of yourself and know that there are tons of Germans in talk shows whose language skills are inferior to yours

I see, so los lower-case is basically "to go" as in "los los los!" that I hear when I play war games.

But Los capitalized is the "good fortune" variation of the word?

See, I watched german news programs on the internet, but I can't process the grammar fast enough to keep up with what they are saying. I thought if I took what I know and just immerse myself in german by watching german TV online I'd learn to adapt, but I'm not doing so good.

Ahnimus

Jackhammer wrote:

Meine meinung nach, es ist schwein schwer

Let me see, hmmm.

My opinion is pig hard? Did I miss something?

Ahnimus

Nickrand wrote:

German is difficult to learn as a second language, particularly its grammar. I've lived in Germany for six months and still struggle with the placement of verbs. Basically, the verb either must come in the second position of a sentence or at the very end. This doesn't mean it has to be the second WORD in the sentence. Rather, it has to be the second element. Otherwise, it comes last.

This site explains it well:

http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa032700a.htm

Ah man, I've read that website so many times, I'm just not getting it, I guess I'll read it again.

Who knew it would be so hard to learn a 2nd language? Especially one that my first language descends from.

Thanks to breakmarysfall I have a bunch of german music now to help me with listening to it. Sadly, I have most of the lyrics memorized and can sing along, but my conversation skills are still highly lacking.

Listening to Massive Töne MT3 right now

Sonja_S

Ahnimus wrote:

I see, so los lower-case is basically "to go" as in "los los los!" that I hear when I play war games.

But Los capitalized is the "good fortune" variation of the word?

See, I watched german news programs on the internet, but I can't process the grammar fast enough to keep up with what they are saying. I thought if I took what I know and just immerse myself in german by watching german TV online I'd learn to adapt, but I'm not doing so good.

'los los los!' in war games would be 'move move move'. 'Was ist los?' would be 'What's going on'. Los as a noun can be destiny ('ein schweres Los' for example), or something you draw at a raffle. Good fortune is 'Glück'.

There are so many dialects in the German language, it's hard to learn 'proper' German by watching TV. If Austrian movies are shown in Germany, they are often subtitled (unfortunately I'm not kidding) and unfortunately they are not paying any attention to proper Grammar on TV anymore. If I got a Euro anytime they falsly use the Dativ instead of Genetiv in a newscast, I'd be rich. For example 'wegen den Schneefällen' when it should be 'wegen der Schneefälle' (or rather 'aufgrund der Schneefälle' but I'm starting to be grateful for the small things )

BTW, I learned English by listening to music-seems as if that method works

Sonja_S

Ahnimus wrote:

Let me see, hmmm.

My opinion is pig hard? Did I miss something?

Meiner Meinung nach ist es schweine schwer = In my opinion it's fucking hard.

Jackhammer

and as you can see, I also have some problem with building sentences.

Happens all the time that people correct what I say in german, sadly :(

Sonja_S

Jackhammer wrote:

and as you can see, I also have some problem with building sentences.

Happens all the time that people correct what I say in german, sadly :(

As I said earlier, I have the utmost respect for everyone who takes on the German language. It really is schweine schwer You should read my French *g*

Jackhammer

he thx

I think anyone who learn foreign languages demonstrate already a will to communicate, it can only be a good thing

Sonja_S

Amen to that

Ahnimus

Sonja_S wrote:

'los los los!' in war games would be 'move move move'. 'Was ist los?' would be 'What's going on'. Los as a noun can be destiny ('ein schweres Los' for example), or something you draw at a raffle. Good fortune is 'Glück'.

There are so many dialects in the German language, it's hard to learn 'proper' German by watching TV. If Austrian movies are shown in Germany, they are often subtitled (unfortunately I'm not kidding) and unfortunately they are not paying any attention to proper Grammar on TV anymore. If I got a Euro anytime they falsly use the Dativ instead of Genetiv in a newscast, I'd be rich. For example 'wegen den Schneefällen' when it should be 'wegen der Schneefälle' (or rather 'aufgrund der Schneefälle' but I'm starting to be grateful for the small things )

BTW, I learned English by listening to music-seems as if that method works

Thank you, that certainly illustrates the diversity of the word. I guess that's why I have difficulty with it.

I'm finding it really hard to learn just one other language. How can you speak multiple languages? I suppose growing up in europe would help.

Ahnimus

Sonja_S wrote:

Meiner Meinung nach ist es schweine schwer = In my opinion it's fucking hard.

I thought Schwein was pig, it made sense because we also use Swine in english. Or is it the lower-case version that means "fucking"?

I also heard that Schwanz is "dick" but direct translation produces "Tail" as well as "dick" "cock" etc..

I said to someone once "Saugen mein Schwanz" and they didn't understand :(

We should start a german language thread or something, I'm getting some good input out of this.

callen

you get your point acrossed who the fk cares.

Ahnimus

callen wrote:

you get your point acrossed who the fk cares.

You can talk rubbish if you want, I personally like to improve my language skills. I'm glad some people don't care, because then when I say "you know, gullible isn't in the dictionary" they go trying to prove me wrong and it's the funniest thing.

I'm by no means an expert in english, but I fancy myself pretty damn good.

Jackhammer

I don't know if it's something about europe.

Personally, I guess I find it interesting.

I can make myself understand in french, english and german.

I should go on with german, as I still have much to learn, but I die to learn Japanese