Proper English
Ahnimus
Posts: 10,560
I can't help but become slightly irked when a native english speaker misuses the language. I don't mean spelling mistakes, but grammar. I imagine it's similar with other languages where the speaker is native.
As an example. The usage of a and an is widely misunderstood. An is used only when the following noun starts with a vowel or the first sound, sounds like a vowel. E.g. An Egg, An Artist, An Hour. A is used in all other cases. E.g. A Question, A Fly, A Hotel.
I was listening to CBC Radio One just now and the host said "An Hotel" and it was like nails on a chalkboard.
The other thing that tends to irk me is saying "Irregardless" this is not a real word and is a double-negative.
Does anyone else get irked by things like this?
As an example. The usage of a and an is widely misunderstood. An is used only when the following noun starts with a vowel or the first sound, sounds like a vowel. E.g. An Egg, An Artist, An Hour. A is used in all other cases. E.g. A Question, A Fly, A Hotel.
wikipedia wrote:An is the older form, now used before words starting with a vowel sound, regardless of whether the word begins with a vowel letter. Examples: a light-water reactor; an LWR; a HEPA filter (because HEPA is pronounced as a word rather than as letters); a hypothesis; an hour. However, it is still often considered proper to use an before any noun starting with h, therefore a hotel and an hotel are both acceptable, but the latter is falling out of use.
More examples: "a boy, a European, a j, a picture, a store, a table, a bottle, a window, a phone, a hyphen, a one-horse town" and "a united country, a usurper, a eulogy, a ewe, a U-boat" and "an entry, an f, an hour, an orange, an ape, an odor, an idea, an eagle, an honor, an umbrella, an unbeliever" and "a hotel, a house, a hill, a hymn, a honeycomb". [1]
"Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage is more descriptive than prescriptive, but it advises: You choose the article that suits your own pronunciation. Theodore Bernstein gives the straight vowel-sound-vs.-consonant-sound explanation but allows that you should indeed say "an hotel" if you think hotel is pronounced otel." [2]
I was listening to CBC Radio One just now and the host said "An Hotel" and it was like nails on a chalkboard.
The other thing that tends to irk me is saying "Irregardless" this is not a real word and is a double-negative.
wikipedia wrote:The origin of irregardless is not known for certain, but the consensus among references is that it is a portmanteau of irrespective and regardless, both of which are commonly accepted standard English words. By blending these words, an illogical word is created. "Since the prefix ir- means 'not' (as it does with irrespective), and the suffix -less means 'without,' irregardless is a double negative."[1]. (Cf. inflammable, flammable.)
Irregardless is primarily found in North America, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, and was first acknowledged in 1912 by the Wentworth American Dialect Dictionary as originating from western Indiana. Barely a decade later, the usage dispute over irregardless was such that, in 1923, Literary Digest published an article entitled "Is There Such a Word as Irregardless in the English Language?"[2]
Does anyone else get irked by things like this?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
when my friends do it i can forgive them. but having actually heard it on the news and the radio from 'intelligent' people really makes me want to blow a gasket
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
i'm thinking you did this on purpose but...
'were' you out
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
Correction: Were.
I'm sorry my brothers...I have let you down.
By the way, Your a dick.
E.g. You're, rather than Your'e. We're, rather than Wer'e.
thanks chubbs
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
"To" and "too" is another one that people can't seem to grasp, and you see it all over the place.
I could go on and on, but let's just cut to the chase .... you KNOW this thread will wind up as a discussion about people who say "I could care less."
Unless you're a post-colonial linguistic theorist, you should have capitalised/capitalized English.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't know. Did he say it with a French accent... like "an 'otel"?
Nope
~Michael Bolton
Both are acceptable. "Histoire" is a French word (from the Greek). When the Normans invaded England in 1066, they made a deep impression on Anglo Saxon language.
One needs to remember that standardisation of grammar and spelling largely happened contemporaneously, with the growth of British colonialism and print culture, mainly in the eighteenth century. It seemed the logic of the British was: if you were going to hegemonise another territory, you also needed to homogenise the form to authorise the content of the discourse.
This had a big effect on all areas of print, including the novel: just contrast Daniel Defoe's writings, around 1719, with Jane Austen's, about eighty or ninety years later, and you'll see an enormous difference, in terms of grammatical standardisation. And think about the creation of the OED, and what happened to the language in the era of Johnson, and of Boswell ... Maybe the English language was much better before then. Well, we haven't had a rival to Shakespeare, since, have we?
I should get a big post-it and write "Unacceptable" and stick it my forehead.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
thanks
~Michael Bolton
Well, personally any word begining with an H where the H is pronounced should be lead by an A. In french Histoire, from what I understand the H isn't really pronounced. As in the song Geld oder Lieb by Massive Töne feat. Tairo, Tairo sings "C'est une longue histoire" they don't really pronounce the H in that particular song.
Chorus:
Jetzt ist Rap groß, Respekt für mad Flows
Respekt für mad shows
Das Geschäft boomt
Jetzt ist Rap groß, Respekt für mad flows
Respekt für mad shows
Jetzt geht's los!
Chorus (Tairo)2x:
C'est une longue histoire
Et tu vas la raconter (jetzt ist Rap groß)
Le monde peut te recevoir (das Geschäft boomt)
tel que tu es (jetzt geht's los!)
If you say "a hour to go" you have two vowal sounds in a row. So it's "an hour to go"
The form an for the indefinite article is used before a spoken vowel sound, regardless of how the written word is spelt. If you say 'an otel' when speaking (which is now often regarded as distinctly old-fashioned), then it may be appropriate for you to write 'an hotel'; but most people say 'hotel' with a sounded 'h', and should write 'a hotel'.
By contrast, words such as 'honour', 'heir' or 'hour' in which the 'h' sound is dropped are written with 'an'. Americans who drop the 'h' in 'herb' may also prefer to write 'an herb', but in standard British pronunciation the 'h' is sounded, and 'a herb' is therefore correct in writing. Because 'European' is said with an initial 'y' sound, which counts as a consonantal sound in English speech, it is said (and written) with 'a' not 'an'. An abbreviation such as M.P., which is pronounced em pea, begins with a spoken vowel, and so it is 'an M.P.'
naděje umírá poslední
Just because some people make grammatical or spelling errors doesn't mean they are unable to present their arguments in a coherent manner.
The errors used to annoy me a lot, which, in turn, annoyed other people. (I think someone even called me a language fascist or something of that nature.)
So now if I understand the argument, screw the errors, whether they are the result of grammatical misuse or typing too quickly.
You can't expect everyone to express himself while knowing all the rules and subtleties of the English (or any other) language.
Besides, if Double U Bush spoke better, he wouldn't be such an amusing f*ed
up excuse of an elected official.
Just theorising, here.
"An European" could be argued to create a glottal stop, between the "n" in "an" and the "Eu" of European. This is because "Eu" is a semivowel, a bit like a dipthong. Phonetically, the sound of "Eu" is similar to "you". Since many people insist "y" is a consonant, you could say that a semivowel - the start of which sounds like a consonant - should be preceded by "a", rather than "an", to avoid that awkward clash of consonants that'll have your mouth turned inside out in the process of speaking. "A European" flows much more nicely, too, for practical purposes of speaking.
However, "y" is a vowel as well as a consonant, so you could try to argue for the correctness of "An European", except that "Eu" is a semivowel anyway, and not a vowel, and therefore to be preceded by "An".
I just checked the phonetic spelling of European. It's yʊr'ə-pē'ən. So there you are.
naděje umírá poslední
Not if you're Inspector Jacques Clouseau, and you av a bermb in your rrrreeerrrm.
Almost everybody here knows a litlle english,so that has got to count for something right??;)
the edit is for......jup !!
Cool, well I can speak a bit of german. lol
I don't speak very good though, most non-english people speak better english than I speak german. I don't fully understand the grammar and it takes time for me to process it.
This thread was more directed at native english speakers. I also don't think spelling is such a bad thing, a lot of the time they are typos as well. It actually only really bothers me when someone in the media says things like "..and he is in [the] hospital." It makes me feel weird. Like our language is losing it's goodness. On the other hand I don't care if you call a rubbish bin a garbage can or vice versa. It's mostly grammatical errors and double or tripple negatives.
Edit: by the way, your english is very good.
Use an in place of a when it precedes a vowel sound, not just a vowel. That means it's "an honor" (the h is silent), but "a UFO" (because it's pronounced yoo eff oh). This confuses people most often with acronyms and other abbreviations: some people think it's wrong to use "an" in front of an abbreviation (like "MRI") because "an" can only go before vowels. Poppycock: the sound is what matters. It's "an MRI," assuming you pronounce it "em ar eye."
One tricky case comes up from time to time: is it "a historic occasion" or "an historic occasion"? Some speakers favor the latter — more British than American, but you'll find them in both places — using an on longish words (three or more syllables) beginning with H, where the first syllable isn't accented. They'd say, for instance, "a hístory textbook" but "an históric event." (Likewise "a hábit" but "an habítual offender," "a hýpothetical question" but "an hypóthesis.") Still, most guides prefer a before any H that's sounded: "a historic occasion," "a hysterical joke," "a habitual offender" — but "an honor" and "an hour" because those H's aren't sounded. [Entry revised 21 April 2006.]
The 'official' a or an answer!
It is like that here too...i got an email from my niece yesterday(she is 17)it took me 10 minutes to figure ot what she was saying.All spelling mistakes,and the worsed thing is ..they do it on purpuse(spelling check?:D).Some weeks ago they brought a streetlanguage dictionairy on the market here so we old people can understand what the hell the young ones are talking about!!!:(