Well that was interesting. Back to discussing grammatical affairs I guess.
Does anyone know german grammar? Oder Grammatik?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i feel cheated by the american public education system. if we wouldve had no child left behind when i was in school then theirs no way i wouldve turned out this way. but no, the clinton administration did things there way and i WAS left behind. does anyone feel this way two? when its all said and done, no child left behind will be bushs legacy. to bad clinton couldnt come with a program this good.
i'm sure the clinton administration did there very best but, irregardless, i still feel cheated!
You had me worried!
So worried, that this would last...
But now I'm learning, learning that this will pass...
i feel cheated by the american public education system. if we wouldve had no child left behind when i was in school then theirs no way i wouldve turned out this way. but no, the clinton administration did things there way and i WAS left behind. does anyone feel this way two? when its all said and done, no child left behind will be bushs legacy. to bad clinton couldnt come with a program this good.
i'm sure the clinton administration did there very best but, irregardless, i still feel cheated!
Thanks, that made me laugh
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I was not born in an English-speaking country, but I have always loved the English language. I simply marvel at its wide vocabulary and simple grammar structures. Although I know this thread is geared towards native English speakers, I couldn’t help but post a reply. I think that communication is the most important thing in a language. If someone has a good command of spoken English, and if they can get their message across, that is what really matters. I do understand, though, what most people have been discussing here. Sometimes it can be quite annoying to see or hear someone repeat the same grammar mistake over and over, either when writing or speaking a language. When I was in the United States, instead of saying “I should have given” I heard people say things such as “I should have gave.” Instead of using the past participle of the verb “to give,” which is “given,” they would use the simple past tense “gave,” just to give you an example. It was funny, especially when you know the standard form. Then it suddenly dawned on me that native speakers make mistakes as well. Oh, well, nobody is perfect. I have noticed they make a lot of spelling mistakes. Why? Are they just being careless? I don’t really know. =\
Oh, another thing I’ve noticed is the misuse of the word “mischievous.” It’s hilarious, really. I overheard people pronounce that word like this: “miss – chee- vee - uhs” like they pronounce the word “obvious.” I stopped and thought for a minute, “Oh, they are not pronouncing that word the way I learned. Did I learn the pronunciation of that word correctly?” That kind of confused me, so I looked it up in the dictionary and yeah, I was right. It should be pronounced like this: miss - chI -vuhs, or something along those lines. As you can see, the word “mischievous” is not spelt like the word “obvious,” so obviously it should not be pronounced that way. The correct spelling is “mischievous.” Does this make any sense? I apologize if I have confused you as I tried to make my point here. Anyway, I just thought I’d share something related to the English Language, which is one of the most beautiful languages in the world, in my opinion.
Yea you have the pronounciation Mischievous right Eli.
We do hack up a lot of words to make them different though. A lot of people pronounce four like fo and it's a most basic word.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea you have the pronounciation Mischievous right Eli.
We do hack up a lot of words to make them different though. A lot of people pronounce four like fo and it's a most basic word.
And that's good. I'm glad I don't live in a world where everyone says everything the same and follows every rules and guideline to a tee. I prefer the color, flare and flaws of the world to rigid cookie cutters.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And that's good. I'm glad I don't live in a world where everyone says everything the same and follows every rules and guideline to a tee. I prefer the color, flare and flaws of the world to rigid cookie cutters.
I like colourful language as well. I think it might be hard for people to learn english though. I find it hard to communicate with some people from the middle east.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I prefer the color, flare and flaws of the world to rigid cookie cutters.
You mean "flair"?
Eli, thanks for your perspective. Having an international membership does make it interesting. I know and understand that sometimes it helps to be a bit more forgiving of those from non-English speaking countries when reading message board posts (not just on this board, but others). It does get frustrating when people from England, or Canada, or Australia, or the US make the same mistakes over and over.
Ok, having said that, I also like flair & people making up thier own words on occasion. Sometimes it's a lot of fun. Also, nobody's perfect, it just bugs me when the President can't pronounce the words in his own speech!
Well that was interesting. Back to discussing grammatical affairs I guess.
Does anyone know german grammar? Oder Grammatik?
I'd like to think I do. Even though spelling got difficult for us old folks after the 'Rechtschreibreform'
You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
It says in the wikipedia quote that an hotel is accepted though as is any "h" word.
Yea, but it depends if you pronounce the H or not. People with french accents pronounce it "an 'Otel" which is fine.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'd like to think I do. Even though spelling got difficult for us old folks after the 'Rechtschreibreform'
I've never heard of 'Rechtschreibreform' but I can guess what it is
My problem with German grammar is where to place words in a sentence.
Like does the verb always go at the end of the sentence.
"will you for me to the store go?" as an example.
I don't always get it and I am still having a problem with the word "Los" in this particular sentence. "Bitte frag' mich nicht, was los mit mir ist"
I understand it as "Please, don't ask me, what fortune is with me" but again, "Los" has so many meanings.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Ok, this is the part where I make myself look like a dick.
I've recently learned the brain handles language in two different regions. One is expressive and one in comprehensive. Damage to one or both of these areas can cause difficulties with language. The comprehensive region is responsible for understanding grammar amongst other things. Damage to either of these regions (and perhaps underdevelopment) is called aphasia. Some aphasics are almost completely incapable of expressing themselves and/or comprehending language.
Recent studies show that a child suffering from brain damage due to stroke can compensate for this loss through brain development. While an adult suffering from damage to these regions is shit out of luck.
Perhaps some of us simply aren't capable of understanding the complexity of language grammar. Those same people may as well understand musical grammar, as seperate regions of the brain handle this function. Although Broca's area handles some of both language and musical grammar.
In conclusion it may not always be a person's fault if their grammar isn't perfect. There are varrying degrees of brain damage and brain development varies as well. On the other hand, some people just don't give a shit about language.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Ok, this is the part where I make myself look like a dick.
I've recently learned the brain handles language in two different regions. One is expressive and one in comprehensive. Damage to one or both of these areas can cause difficulties with language. The comprehensive region is responsible for understanding grammar amongst other things. Damage to either of these regions (and perhaps underdevelopment) is called aphasia. Some aphasics are almost completely incapable of expressing themselves and/or comprehending language.
Recent studies show that a child suffering from brain damage due to stroke can compensate for this loss through brain development. While an adult suffering from damage to these regions is shit out of luck.
Perhaps some of us simply aren't capable of understanding the complexity of language grammar. Those same people may as well understand musical grammar, as separate regions of the brain handle this function. Although Broca's area handles some of both language and musical grammar.
In conclusion it may not always be a person's fault if their grammar isn't perfect. There are varrying degrees of brain damage and brain development varies as well. On the other hand, some people just don't give a shit about language.
You're not excusing our president's lack of elocution with this post, are you?:)
The other thing that tends to irk me is saying "Irregardless" this is not a real word and is a double-negative.
This is a run-on sentence.
'00 Detroit; '03 Detroit I MSG II Boston III; '04 Toledo Grand Rapids; '05 Thunder Bay Kitchener London; '06 Arnhem Barcelona Marseille Prague Berlin; '07 Chorzow London Duesseldorf Copenhagen Nijmegen Lollapalooza; '08 EV LA II EV SD I DC MSG I/II EV Montreal I/II EV Toronto I/II EV Chicago I/II; '09 EV Memphis EV Atlanta I/II Berlin Manchester London Sydney Brisbane Auckland Christchurch; '10 Noblesville Cleveland Dublin Belfast Berlin; '11 EV Detroit EV St. Louis EV Minneapolis PJ20 I/II Winnipeg '12 Berlin I/II Stockholm Oslo '13 London Dallas '14 Berlin Stockholm Oslo Detroit
Ok, this is the part where I make myself look like a dick.
I've recently learned the brain handles language in two different regions. One is expressive and one in comprehensive. Damage to one or both of these areas can cause difficulties with language. The comprehensive region is responsible for understanding grammar amongst other things. Damage to either of these regions (and perhaps underdevelopment) is called aphasia. Some aphasics are almost completely incapable of expressing themselves and/or comprehending language.
Recent studies show that a child suffering from brain damage due to stroke can compensate for this loss through brain development. While an adult suffering from damage to these regions is shit out of luck.
Perhaps some of us simply aren't capable of understanding the complexity of language grammar. Those same people may as well understand musical grammar, as seperate regions of the brain handle this function. Although Broca's area handles some of both language and musical grammar.
In conclusion it may not always be a person's fault if their grammar isn't perfect. There are varrying degrees of brain damage and brain development varies as well. On the other hand, some people just don't give a shit about language.
I just watched a show where they removed one half of two young kids (3 or 4) brains because of damage to one side. They had to relearn everything, but are capable of adapting w/ only one half.
I've never heard of 'Rechtschreibreform' but I can guess what it is
My problem with German grammar is where to place words in a sentence.
Like does the verb always go at the end of the sentence.
"will you for me to the store go?" as an example.
I don't always get it and I am still having a problem with the word "Los" in this particular sentence. "Bitte frag' mich nicht, was los mit mir ist"
I understand it as "Please, don't ask me, what fortune is with me" but again, "Los" has so many meanings.
Rechtschreibreform means spelling reform. They just changed the way things are spelled, then they changed some stuff back and the discussion never ends. I refuse to accept the reform, it's stupid to change a language instead of letting it evolve.
German grammar is extremely hard. I have the utmost respect for everyone who takes on that language. I find Ed speaking German in Vienna funny for example because whoever translated the messages for him, didn't quite manage grammar either
'will you for me to the store go?' as you wrote would be different in Austria. We'd say 'go you to the store for me?'. We also use cases and articles differently.
Los has a lot of meanings. In the case of 'Bitte frag mich nicht, was los mit mir ist', it's part of 'los sein' (going on) as an expression. And then of course there's Los with a capital L
Most native speakers have problems with German grammar too, so whatever you say or write in German, you can be proud of yourself and know that there are tons of Germans in talk shows whose language skills are inferior to yours
You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
I've never heard of 'Rechtschreibreform' but I can guess what it is
My problem with German grammar is where to place words in a sentence.
Like does the verb always go at the end of the sentence.
"will you for me to the store go?" as an example.
German is difficult to learn as a second language, particularly its grammar. I've lived in Germany for six months and still struggle with the placement of verbs. Basically, the verb either must come in the second position of a sentence or at the very end. This doesn't mean it has to be the second WORD in the sentence. Rather, it has to be the second element. Otherwise, it comes last.
'00 Detroit; '03 Detroit I MSG II Boston III; '04 Toledo Grand Rapids; '05 Thunder Bay Kitchener London; '06 Arnhem Barcelona Marseille Prague Berlin; '07 Chorzow London Duesseldorf Copenhagen Nijmegen Lollapalooza; '08 EV LA II EV SD I DC MSG I/II EV Montreal I/II EV Toronto I/II EV Chicago I/II; '09 EV Memphis EV Atlanta I/II Berlin Manchester London Sydney Brisbane Auckland Christchurch; '10 Noblesville Cleveland Dublin Belfast Berlin; '11 EV Detroit EV St. Louis EV Minneapolis PJ20 I/II Winnipeg '12 Berlin I/II Stockholm Oslo '13 London Dallas '14 Berlin Stockholm Oslo Detroit
possessive and plural seems to be an issue lately. something that is plural just gets an 's'...it doesn't get an apostrophe too. seems grossly misused lately. eh well.
Rechtschreibreform means spelling reform. They just changed the way things are spelled, then they changed some stuff back and the discussion never ends. I refuse to accept the reform, it's stupid to change a language instead of letting it evolve.
German grammar is extremely hard. I have the utmost respect for everyone who takes on that language. I find Ed speaking German in Vienna funny for example because whoever translated the messages for him, didn't quite manage grammar either
'will you for me to the store go?' as you wrote would be different in Austria. We'd say 'go you to the store for me?'. We also use cases and articles differently.
Los has a lot of meanings. In the case of 'Bitte frag mich nicht, was los mit mir ist', it's part of 'los sein' (going on) as an expression. And then of course there's Los with a capital L
Most native speakers have problems with German grammar too, so whatever you say or write in German, you can be proud of yourself and know that there are tons of Germans in talk shows whose language skills are inferior to yours
I see, so los lower-case is basically "to go" as in "los los los!" that I hear when I play war games.
But Los capitalized is the "good fortune" variation of the word?
See, I watched german news programs on the internet, but I can't process the grammar fast enough to keep up with what they are saying. I thought if I took what I know and just immerse myself in german by watching german TV online I'd learn to adapt, but I'm not doing so good.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
German is difficult to learn as a second language, particularly its grammar. I've lived in Germany for six months and still struggle with the placement of verbs. Basically, the verb either must come in the second position of a sentence or at the very end. This doesn't mean it has to be the second WORD in the sentence. Rather, it has to be the second element. Otherwise, it comes last.
Ah man, I've read that website so many times, I'm just not getting it, I guess I'll read it again.
Who knew it would be so hard to learn a 2nd language? Especially one that my first language descends from.
Thanks to breakmarysfall I have a bunch of german music now to help me with listening to it. Sadly, I have most of the lyrics memorized and can sing along, but my conversation skills are still highly lacking.
Listening to Massive Töne MT3 right now
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I see, so los lower-case is basically "to go" as in "los los los!" that I hear when I play war games.
But Los capitalized is the "good fortune" variation of the word?
See, I watched german news programs on the internet, but I can't process the grammar fast enough to keep up with what they are saying. I thought if I took what I know and just immerse myself in german by watching german TV online I'd learn to adapt, but I'm not doing so good.
'los los los!' in war games would be 'move move move'. 'Was ist los?' would be 'What's going on'. Los as a noun can be destiny ('ein schweres Los' for example), or something you draw at a raffle. Good fortune is 'Glück'.
There are so many dialects in the German language, it's hard to learn 'proper' German by watching TV. If Austrian movies are shown in Germany, they are often subtitled (unfortunately I'm not kidding) and unfortunately they are not paying any attention to proper Grammar on TV anymore. If I got a Euro anytime they falsly use the Dativ instead of Genetiv in a newscast, I'd be rich. For example 'wegen den Schneefällen' when it should be 'wegen der Schneefälle' (or rather 'aufgrund der Schneefälle' but I'm starting to be grateful for the small things )
BTW, I learned English by listening to music-seems as if that method works
You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
Comments
Does anyone know german grammar? Oder Grammatik?
i'm sure the clinton administration did there very best but, irregardless, i still feel cheated!
So worried, that this would last...
But now I'm learning, learning that this will pass...
or
nucular instead of nuclear
Oh, another thing I’ve noticed is the misuse of the word “mischievous.” It’s hilarious, really. I overheard people pronounce that word like this: “miss – chee- vee - uhs” like they pronounce the word “obvious.” I stopped and thought for a minute, “Oh, they are not pronouncing that word the way I learned. Did I learn the pronunciation of that word correctly?” That kind of confused me, so I looked it up in the dictionary and yeah, I was right. It should be pronounced like this: miss - chI -vuhs, or something along those lines. As you can see, the word “mischievous” is not spelt like the word “obvious,” so obviously it should not be pronounced that way. The correct spelling is “mischievous.” Does this make any sense? I apologize if I have confused you as I tried to make my point here. Anyway, I just thought I’d share something related to the English Language, which is one of the most beautiful languages in the world, in my opinion.
Peace.
We do hack up a lot of words to make them different though. A lot of people pronounce four like fo and it's a most basic word.
And that's good. I'm glad I don't live in a world where everyone says everything the same and follows every rules and guideline to a tee. I prefer the color, flare and flaws of the world to rigid cookie cutters.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I like colourful language as well. I think it might be hard for people to learn english though. I find it hard to communicate with some people from the middle east.
You mean "flair"?
Eli, thanks for your perspective. Having an international membership does make it interesting. I know and understand that sometimes it helps to be a bit more forgiving of those from non-English speaking countries when reading message board posts (not just on this board, but others). It does get frustrating when people from England, or Canada, or Australia, or the US make the same mistakes over and over.
~Ron Burgundy
Ok, having said that, I also like flair & people making up thier own words on occasion. Sometimes it's a lot of fun. Also, nobody's perfect, it just bugs me when the President can't pronounce the words in his own speech!
I'd like to think I do. Even though spelling got difficult for us old folks after the 'Rechtschreibreform'
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
Issues upon issues with articles on word origins, modern uses, etc.
I've spent may hours pretending to work while I was reading the site.
It says in the wikipedia quote that an hotel is accepted though as is any "h" word.
Yea, but it depends if you pronounce the H or not. People with french accents pronounce it "an 'Otel" which is fine.
I've never heard of 'Rechtschreibreform' but I can guess what it is
My problem with German grammar is where to place words in a sentence.
Like does the verb always go at the end of the sentence.
"will you for me to the store go?" as an example.
I don't always get it and I am still having a problem with the word "Los" in this particular sentence. "Bitte frag' mich nicht, was los mit mir ist"
I understand it as "Please, don't ask me, what fortune is with me" but again, "Los" has so many meanings.
I've recently learned the brain handles language in two different regions. One is expressive and one in comprehensive. Damage to one or both of these areas can cause difficulties with language. The comprehensive region is responsible for understanding grammar amongst other things. Damage to either of these regions (and perhaps underdevelopment) is called aphasia. Some aphasics are almost completely incapable of expressing themselves and/or comprehending language.
Recent studies show that a child suffering from brain damage due to stroke can compensate for this loss through brain development. While an adult suffering from damage to these regions is shit out of luck.
Perhaps some of us simply aren't capable of understanding the complexity of language grammar. Those same people may as well understand musical grammar, as seperate regions of the brain handle this function. Although Broca's area handles some of both language and musical grammar.
In conclusion it may not always be a person's fault if their grammar isn't perfect. There are varrying degrees of brain damage and brain development varies as well. On the other hand, some people just don't give a shit about language.
nah, just saying he's evidently brain damaged.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
This is a run-on sentence.
I just watched a show where they removed one half of two young kids (3 or 4) brains because of damage to one side. They had to relearn everything, but are capable of adapting w/ only one half.
amazing.
Rechtschreibreform means spelling reform. They just changed the way things are spelled, then they changed some stuff back and the discussion never ends. I refuse to accept the reform, it's stupid to change a language instead of letting it evolve.
German grammar is extremely hard. I have the utmost respect for everyone who takes on that language. I find Ed speaking German in Vienna funny for example because whoever translated the messages for him, didn't quite manage grammar either
'will you for me to the store go?' as you wrote would be different in Austria. We'd say 'go you to the store for me?'. We also use cases and articles differently.
Los has a lot of meanings. In the case of 'Bitte frag mich nicht, was los mit mir ist', it's part of 'los sein' (going on) as an expression. And then of course there's Los with a capital L
Most native speakers have problems with German grammar too, so whatever you say or write in German, you can be proud of yourself and know that there are tons of Germans in talk shows whose language skills are inferior to yours
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
I'm not german, but lived there. Grammar is definitly some of the hardet stuff I had to learn, and still didn't got it right.
Meine meinung nach, es ist schwein schwer
German is difficult to learn as a second language, particularly its grammar. I've lived in Germany for six months and still struggle with the placement of verbs. Basically, the verb either must come in the second position of a sentence or at the very end. This doesn't mean it has to be the second WORD in the sentence. Rather, it has to be the second element. Otherwise, it comes last.
This site explains it well:
http://german.about.com/library/weekly/aa032700a.htm
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I see, so los lower-case is basically "to go" as in "los los los!" that I hear when I play war games.
But Los capitalized is the "good fortune" variation of the word?
See, I watched german news programs on the internet, but I can't process the grammar fast enough to keep up with what they are saying. I thought if I took what I know and just immerse myself in german by watching german TV online I'd learn to adapt, but I'm not doing so good.
Let me see, hmmm.
My opinion is pig hard? Did I miss something?
Ah man, I've read that website so many times, I'm just not getting it, I guess I'll read it again.
Who knew it would be so hard to learn a 2nd language? Especially one that my first language descends from.
Thanks to breakmarysfall I have a bunch of german music now to help me with listening to it. Sadly, I have most of the lyrics memorized and can sing along, but my conversation skills are still highly lacking.
Listening to Massive Töne MT3 right now
'los los los!' in war games would be 'move move move'. 'Was ist los?' would be 'What's going on'. Los as a noun can be destiny ('ein schweres Los' for example), or something you draw at a raffle. Good fortune is 'Glück'.
There are so many dialects in the German language, it's hard to learn 'proper' German by watching TV. If Austrian movies are shown in Germany, they are often subtitled (unfortunately I'm not kidding) and unfortunately they are not paying any attention to proper Grammar on TV anymore. If I got a Euro anytime they falsly use the Dativ instead of Genetiv in a newscast, I'd be rich. For example 'wegen den Schneefällen' when it should be 'wegen der Schneefälle' (or rather 'aufgrund der Schneefälle' but I'm starting to be grateful for the small things
BTW, I learned English by listening to music-seems as if that method works
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson