Morbidly Obese Mutants

Ahnimus

chopitdown wrote:

it's also b/c you can hide anorexia and bulemia a lot easier. Baggy clothes, long pants, long sleeves you can hide a lot of eating disorders. Plus the people in the news who are anorexic...think people magazine types are criticized for their weight (or lack thereof). plus obesity affects both men and women in large numbers. Some men do suffer from eating disorders but it's not nearly on the order that women do, so again, it's not as noticeable.

n 2003-2004, 17.1% of US children and adolescents were overweight and 32.2% of adults were obese"

Anorexia nervosa affects one to five percent of the population. Ninety percent of anorexics are women between the ages of 13 and 20.

The numbers just aren't as alarming for Eating disorders as tehy are for obesity; that and when you're on an airplane no one is going to complain about someone not spilling over into their seat etc...

I agree the fashion industry makes women try to be more skinny but there's also more at play.

That is some interesting logic, how does it apply to this scenario.

Charlie Manson runs a dump out in the desert where people that don't fit into society congregate. Some of those people commited murders.

Charles Starkweather and his 16 yr old Girlfriend are two psychopaths bent on serial killing. They murder her parents and 2 yr old sister, then go on to murder 8 more people.

Applying your logic to this scenario, we should concentrate our efforts on the Starkweather murders because they are more abundant. We can leave the Manson murders until some time after we've caught Starkweather.

Is that about it?

Because you are saying that even though anarexia is a serious health problem, it's not as annoying as obesity, so therefor it can be left alone while society concentrates it's descrimination on obesity?

chopitdown

Ahnimus wrote:

Applying your logic to this scenario, we should concentrate our efforts on the Starkweather murders because they are more abundant. We can leave the Manson murders until some time after we've caught Starkweather.

Is that about it?

Because you are saying that even though anarexia is a serious health problem, it's not as annoying as obesity, so therefor it can be left alone while society concentrates it's descrimination on obesity?

No, what I'm saying is that people aren't as annoyed by anorexia b/c of the sheer numbers. Both obesity and anorexia have serious health issues and both need to be addressed.
I'm not saying we leave anything alone...where did you pull that from? We need to address both of the issues; the fact of the matter is, people (society) get more annoyed by obese people b/c they are more abundant and more easy to pick out. Anorexics are able to hide the disorder easier, until it gets down to the extreme weights. Look at athletics, esp womens athletics in cross country. Many in that sport have problems associated with anorexia / bulemia b/c they lose their menstrual cycle. But no one besides them knows they aren't ovulating on a normal schedule or are developing osteoporosis.
Please don't try to assume my logic. We need to care for both extremes of disordered eating.

Ahnimus

chopitdown wrote:

No, what I'm saying is that people aren't as annoyed by anorexia b/c of the sheer numbers. Both obesity and anorexia have serious health issues and both need to be addressed.
I'm not saying we leave anything alone...where did you pull that from? We need to address both of the issues; the fact of the matter is, people (society) get more annoyed by obese people b/c they are more abundant and more easy to pick out. Anorexics are able to hide the disorder easier, until it gets down to the extreme weights. Look at athletics, esp womens athletics in cross country. Many in that sport have problems associated with anorexia / bulemia b/c they lose their menstrual cycle. But no one besides them knows they aren't ovulating on a normal schedule or are developing osteoporosis.
Please don't try to assume my logic. We need to care for both extremes of disordered eating.

Ok, well I was just trying to get clarification of your logic.

What do you propose we do as a society?

angelica

We've got weird standards, too, in that we shame the overweight person, but applaud the compulsive workaholic. Caffeine addiction is completely condoned, and yet truly, addictions have far reaching ramifications in terms of stunting our very humanity, even if it's "just" a sugar one.

chopitdown

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok, well I was just trying to get clarification of your logic.

What do you propose we do as a society?

1. educate physicians in how to better deal with patients who are obese / anorexic. And help with early interventions (i.e. exercise / diet)
2. Fast food tax and make healthier food more affordable.
3. Start community exercise programs
4. Stop punishing kids by using exercise.
5. Get parents to be good roll models in health and exercise. If the parents sit around the house and eat fast food why would we expect the kids to be different. If parents model good "mechanics" it should be instilled in children.
6. educate coaches and parents in signs to look for for children who may be anorexic. Target the weight sensitive sports (gymnastics, wrestling, cross country) especially.
7. try to limit production of foods using HFCS and excess sodium.
8. Recognize that both my be manifestations of different problems (medical, social, psychological) and that those deeper problems can get dealt with.

Those would be a good start. Even just helping educate physicians and parents on how to talk to people who may be changing weight in an unhealthy pattern. It seems weight is one of the topics that challenges physicians b/c it's tough to bring those issues up b/c of fear of driving someone further into their set pattern.

chopitdown

angelica wrote:

We've got weird standards, too, in that we shame the overweight person, but applaud the compulsive workaholic. Caffeine addiction is completely condoned, and yet truly, addictions have far reaching ramifications in terms of stunting our very humanity, even if it's "just" a sugar one.

I agree. We champion success and as long as you succeed it doesn't matter how, and that is sad. Think about how often families sit down to eat on a regular basis...we as a society forsake a lot just to get "ahead".

angelica

chopitdown wrote:

I agree. We champion success and as long as you succeed it doesn't matter how, and that is sad. Think about how often families sit down to eat on a regular basis...we as a society forsake a lot just to get "ahead".

Sadly this is very true. We have the fallout all around us for such choices, too.

Ahnimus

chopitdown wrote:

1. educate physicians in how to better deal with patients who are obese / anorexic. And help with early interventions (i.e. exercise / diet)
2. Fast food tax and make healthier food more affordable.
3. Start community exercise programs
4. Stop punishing kids by using exercise.
5. Get parents to be good roll models in health and exercise. If the parents sit around the house and eat fast food why would we expect the kids to be different. If parents model good "mechanics" it should be instilled in children.
6. educate coaches and parents in signs to look for for children who may be anorexic. Target the weight sensitive sports (gymnastics, wrestling, cross country) especially.
7. try to limit production of foods using HFCS and excess sodium.
8. Recognize that both my be manifestations of different problems (medical, social, psychological) and that those deeper problems can get dealt with.

Those would be a good start. Even just helping educate physicians and parents on how to talk to people who may be changing weight in an unhealthy pattern. It seems weight is one of the topics that challenges physicians b/c it's tough to bring those issues up b/c of fear of driving someone further into their set pattern.

That all sounds great, a little bit like communist china, but, I assume you have a different method to deliver those mechanisms?

chopitdown

Ahnimus wrote:

That all sounds great, a little bit like communist china, but, I assume you have a different method to deliver those mechanisms?

no it doesnt. I am merely trying to provide the educational opportunities for the most part. But no, i havne't given it much thought beyond this. There are other people who are much wiser and have the research and resources to come up with the plans.

Ahnimus

chopitdown wrote:

no it doesnt. I am merely trying to provide the educational opportunities for the most part. But no, i havne't given it much thought beyond this. There are other people who are much wiser and have the research and resources to come up with the plans.

Well, the process of societal evolution required to initiate those values is a long one indeed. It won't change overnight simply by telling people they are wrong. We have to make sure that everyone gets the same information from the same ecological system. I think by consistently lying to our children about pretty much everything, we are setting the stage for rebellion, and ultimately, it doesn't matter what we teach them when we lie about it.

chopitdown

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, the process of societal evolution required to initiate those values is a long one indeed. It won't change overnight simply by telling people they are wrong. We have to make sure that everyone gets the same information from the same ecological system. I think by consistently lying to our children about pretty much everything, we are setting the stage for rebellion, and ultimately, it doesn't matter what we teach them when we lie about it.

you're right it will take time, the only way for it to change overnight is to become machiavellan in our actions. It will take time. Our genome hasn't changed in the last hundred years, but our lifestyles have. Weight control, for the most part, is a lifestyle issue...and that is the hardest thing to change b/c you can't just take a pill to get better. It may take pill popping and behavior modification. And in order to convince someone to change behavior we have to point out flaws in people, something our society has seemed to say is a terrible thing. That's why I said we need to educate people. It's the old addage about giving a guy a fish or teaching a guy to fish.

Ahnimus

chopitdown wrote:

you're right it will take time, the only way for it to change overnight is to become machiavellan in our actions. It will take time. Our genome hasn't changed in the last hundred years, but our lifestyles have. Weight control, for the most part, is a lifestyle issue...and that is the hardest thing to change b/c you can't just take a pill to get better. It may take pill popping and behavior modification. And in order to convince someone to change behavior we have to point out flaws in people, something our society has seemed to say is a terrible thing. That's why I said we need to educate people. It's the old addage about giving a guy a fish or teaching a guy to fish.

I agree, but let me reiterate what I said in my first post:

---

We all have our preconceptions about obese people and more particularily morbidly obese people. For a typical obese or overweight person with significant adiposity we can attribute it to lack of will power and sociocultural environment. Lack of exercise combined with poor diet.

However, what of the morbidly obese? Is it possible biology/genetics are responsible. In fact, it is.

Leptin is a hormone produced by adipose tissue (stored fat) that regulates the intake of food and the use of energy. Some people have Leptin resistances or Leptin defficiency which leads to increased food intake and decreased use of stored energy.

____________________________________________________________________

Hopefully this makes sense now. Yes, lifestyle is an element of most obesity. But channel surfing is also an element of stupidity. When you meet a stupid person, do you consider that maybe they have a neural degenerative disease? Perhaps that 700 pound woman standing infront of you has an insensitivity to PPAR-Delta? Maybe dude sucks at sports because he has MS or Spina Bifida. Just maybe, but not always, of course.

So, the original thread topic was not that all obese people are lazy slobs or that all obese people have genetic abnormalities. But some do.

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

The point is, you don't hear too many people complaining about anorexic or bulemic people. Probably because those models are "hot".

or it might be becos they've never sat down next to me on a plane and forced me to be completely cramped for a 4 hour flight.

i think models are freaky. they look like aliens. it's gross. but if that's their choice, good for them. if obese people want to be obese, fair play to them. but dont sit next to me on a plane and force me to sit in the aisle becos your flesh cant fit in your own seat.

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

or it might be becos they've never sat down next to me on a plane and forced me to be completely cramped for a 4 hour flight.

i think models are freaky. they look like aliens. it's gross. but if that's their choice, good for them. if obese people want to be obese, fair play to them. but dont sit next to me on a plane and force me to sit in the aisle becos your flesh cant fit in your own seat.

I guess on that same note, if your face makes me puke, I shouldn't have to look at you.

hippiemom

Ahnimus wrote:

I guess on that same note, if your face makes me puke, I shouldn't have to look at you.

To be fair, you're free to look in any direction. If you're on a plane, or at a baseball game or a concert or whatever, and you're seated next to a 400-pounder, there's really no escape.

Ahnimus

hippiemom wrote:

To be fair, you're free to look in any direction. If you're on a plane, or at a baseball game or a concert or whatever, and you're seated next to a 400-pounder, there's really no escape.

Give me a break, most of my family is big, it's deffinately in my genes. I'm not a big person and I have no problem getting by with big relatives. We get a long just fine. This idea that it drastically inhibits the quality of everyone else's lives is complete nonsense. My uncle Bill was 700 lbs and it didn't affect me at all, but it killed him.

hippiemom

Ahnimus wrote:

Give me a break, most of my family is big, it's deffinately in my genes. I'm not a big person and I have no problem getting by with big relatives. We get a long just fine. This idea that it drastically inhibits the quality of everyone else's lives is complete nonsense. My uncle Bill was 700 lbs and it didn't affect me at all, but it killed him.

How many times did you fly with him?

gue_barium

hippiemom wrote:

How many times did you fly with him?

Laura. Jesus.

Stop that.

Ahnimus

hippiemom wrote:

How many times did you fly with him?

Is that your only beef with fat people? Is that it inconveniences you?

I'm inconvenienced by everyone that owns a vehicle. I mean come on. When I'm on a plane waiting to use the washroom because some vain bitch is in their smearing whale bile on her face, I have to put up with it.

gue_barium

Ahnimus wrote:

Is that your only beef with fat people? Is that it inconveniences you?

I'm inconvenienced by everyone that owns a vehicle. I mean come on. When I'm on a plane waiting to use the washroom because some vain bitch is in their smearing whale bile on her face, I have to put up with it.

I want to buy one of those ultra-lite kits. i want a two-seater so i can parachute off it, too.

Hell yeah!!!!