And you think I'm crazy!

Ahnimus

small town beck wrote:

Not that any good comes of wondering but I suppose in idle curiousity I can't help but wonder if the two had never met what would have happened?? Not just for Leopold and Loeb but with other people as well. Karla Homolka and Paul Bernado. All sorts of people. That two people just bring out the absolute worse in each other.

That's just it, Charles Starkweather and Caril Anne Fugate is another very well known example. But they all have horrors in their pasts. Caril Anne Fugate wanted her parents dead because of the sexual and psychological abuse in her family. She was happy to see them die, and assisted in killing them. Then her and Charlie went on a rampage because they had crossed the line. Many people when they kill, feel as Starkweather did when he killed the first one, the gas stations attendent. He felt that he had transcended morality, that he was beyond normal human understanding and that he was basically the bringer of death in God's name. I think it's an ego defense mechanism of some sort.

catefrances

Ahnimus wrote:

That's just it, Charles Starkweather and Caril Anne Fugate is another very well known example. But they all have horrors in their pasts. Caril Anne Fugate wanted her parents dead because of the sexual and psychological abuse in her family. She was happy to see them die, and assisted in killing them. Then her and Charlie went on a rampage because they had crossed the line. Many people when they kill, feel as Starkweather did when he killed the first one, the gas stations attendent. He felt that he had transcended morality, that he was beyond normal human understanding and that he was basically the bringer of death in God's name. I think it's an ego defense mechanism of some sort.

i think these killers are humans in their most pure form. those that plan and plot and have no remorse. or once caught have remorse but say something else was driving them. being human does not exclude us from having predatory tendencies. society has, for the most part, just conditioned us to suppress them.

small town beck

Ahnimus wrote:

I didn't care much about where it happened personally, but thanks for correcting me.

I am more fascinated by the fact that these kids had it all, they had everything anyone could want.

I found the quote. I know everyone was on the edge of their freaking seats :rolleyes:

So after one of Clay's friends shows him they have a 12 year old girl tied up and taking turns on her. Clay asks why. At first his friend says why not but Clay doesn't let it go and it goes back and forth.

Clay says "But you don't need anything. You have everything." His friend disagrees and then finally ends it

"I don't have anything to lose"

angelica

small town beck wrote:

Not that any good comes of wondering but I suppose in idle curiousity I can't help but wonder if the two had never met what would have happened?? Not just for Leopold and Loeb but with other people as well. Karla Homolka and Paul Bernado. All sorts of people. That two people just bring out the absolute worse in each other.

It's pretty well known that we attract situations to us depending on our subconscious dynamics that often we are unaware of. It's more like we unconsciously look for the variables to outlet our agendas. To me it seems like if it wasn't "that" person, it'd be one just like them. Forunately, for most of us the situations aren't as severe. However, we still all attract what brings out our worst, giving us the opportunity to resolve and move past it.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

It's pretty well known that we attract situations to us depending on our subconscious dynamics that often we are unaware of. It's more like we unconsciously look for the variables to outlet our agendas. To me it seems like if it wasn't "that" person, it'd be one just like them. Forunately, for most of us the situations aren't as severe. However, we still all attract what brings out our worst, giving us the opportunity to resolve and move past it.

having someone validate our feelings and actions is a powerful aphrodisiac. whether the outcome is sex or murder. if this other person does it then it must be okay, right? i'm not such a freak then, am i?

angelica

catefrances wrote:

having someone validate our feelings and actions is a powerful aphrodisiac. whether the outcome is sex or murder. if this other person does it then it must be okay, right? i'm not such a freak then, am i?

Exactly. I read a book on Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka and their relationship started based on varying levels of S&M. They played with fine lines and upped the ante, until the day came where Paul asked Karla if he could have sex with her underage sister. Karla obviously complied, leading to the death of her own sister. Karla is also in the top 3 percentile of intelligence, too.

Ahnimus

catefrances wrote:

i think these killers are humans in their most pure form. those that plan and plot and have no remorse. or once caught have remorse but say something else was driving them. being human does not exclude us from having predatory tendencies. society has, for the most part, just conditioned us to suppress them.

Well, there are many things that "drive" a person to kill. The mind is so dynamic that it's difficult to always identify a singular cause or any cause. But if we try hard enough we can understand. Most killers have demons in their past they are trying to kill.

Ahnimus

small town beck wrote:

I found the quote. I know everyone was on the edge of their freaking seats :rolleyes:

So after one of Clay's friends shows him they have a 12 year old girl tied up and taking turns on her. Clay asks why. At first his friend says why not but Clay doesn't let it go and it goes back and forth.

Clay says "But you don't need anything. You have everything." His friend disagrees and then finally ends it

"I don't have anything to lose"

That's pretty twisted, is that from a work of fiction or non-fiction?

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Exactly. I read a book on Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka and their relationship started based on varying levels of S&M. They played with fine lines and upped the ante, until the day came where Paul asked Karla if he could have sex with her underage sister. Karla obviously complied, leading to the death of her own sister. Karla is also in the top 3 percentile of intelligence, too.

Yea, intelligence seems to go hand-in-hand with psychotic disorders and psychopathic disorders. It's messed right up. I still don't think that is solely a cause, but I think that the pressure for them to achieve intelligence may play a role.

catefrances

Ahnimus wrote:

That's pretty twisted, is that from a work of fiction or non-fiction?

it's from less than zero by bret easton ellis. he wrote american psycho. both fiction.

Ahnimus

catefrances wrote:

it's from less than zero by bret easton ellis. he wrote american psycho. both fiction.

Sounds like he has some insight into the criminal mind. Not surprising a lot of people are fascinated by killers.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, intelligence seems to go hand-in-hand with psychotic disorders and psychopathic disorders. It's messed right up. I still don't think that is solely a cause, but I think that the pressure for them to achieve intelligence may play a role.

Also, many of the people I know who have high intelligence feel they are above the law, so to speak. I see it on this board--people who think it gives them license to be derogatory or whatever--they believe they "get it". And really, such an approach reveals a "not getting it". I know people who have a bent to them that they are beyond and above average, and they act like they are entitled to take advantage of that.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Also, many of the people I know who have high intelligence feel they are above the law, so to speak. I see it on this board--people who think it gives them license to be derogatory or whatever--they believe they "get it". And really, such an approach reveals a "not getting it". I know people who have a bent to them that they are beyond and above average, and they act like they are entitled to take advantage of that.

Well that describes most of us on here

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Well that describes most of us on here

Exactly. Get a bunch of intelligent anti-establishment types together and what do you get? Rock n Roll is the devil's playground, don't you know.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Exactly. Get a bunch of intelligent anti-establishment types together and what do you get? Rock n Roll is the devil's playground, don't you know.

Well, it's good that we all disagree, otherwise we'd be a cult.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, it's good that we all disagree, otherwise we'd be a cult.

Haha! That's funny.

catefrances

Ahnimus wrote:

Sounds like he has some insight into the criminal mind. Not surprising a lot of people are fascinated by killers.

i know i am. it is the dark side people are too scared to acknowledge.

Ahnimus

catefrances wrote:

i know i am. it is the dark side people are too scared to acknowledge.

I have a whole bunch of movies about killers. Not like Friday the 13th or anything like that. I like movies that are at least based on real stories. Like Natural Born Killers, Starkweather, Bundy, Hannibal and so on.

Those are some of my favourite movies.

catefrances

Ahnimus wrote:

I have a whole bunch of movies about killers. Not like Friday the 13th or anything like that. I like movies that are at least based on real stories. Like Natural Born Killers, Starkweather, Bundy, Hannibal and so on.

Those are some of my favourite movies.

hannibal is shit ahnimus. it insults my intelligence the way they make lecter out to be how he is. did you know thomas harris has written another book? it's called hannibal rising. it's about how he got to be the charasmatic killer he became. he should have stopped at silence of the lambs. not that i'm much of a fan of that anyway.

actually badlands is one of my fave films.

Ahnimus

catefrances wrote:

hannibal is shit ahnimus. it insults my intelligence the way they make lecter out to be how he is. did you know thomas harris has written another book? it's called hannibal rising. it's about how he got to be the charasmatic killer he became. he should have stopped at silence of the lambs. not that i'm much of a fan of that anyway.

actually badlands is one of my fave films.

Well, I assumed some of the content in those movies is false. I mean, drugging a guy and making him eat his own brain, I can see how that could happen, but I always take the movies with a grain of salt.

I'm not much of a movie buff, what is badlands about?