So, during my Grandmother's funeral the priest? asked everyone to pray. I could see all but two heads go down, mine and my Dad's GF, she is an atheist as well. Following the prayer the priest? repeated several times passages from the Bible about life after death. But he didn't seem to be trying to convince any of us that Grandma is in heaven, rather he seemed to be trying to convince us that if we accept Jesus as our savior we will also go to Heaven.
First, I think most of the people there, except the two that didn't pray have accepted Jesus as their savior. Secondly, it doesn't matter how many times you read Bible passages to me, I'm not going to buy it and neither is my Dad's GF.
Why can't funerals be priestless? Why they got to talk religion at a funeral? The last one I went to was a young girl I knew that committed suicide. The priest kept talking about suicide being the one unforgivable sin and basically said the girl was going to hell. When I die, there better not be a priest there or I come back from the dead to kick his ass!
probably becos your grandma is christian and wanted a christian burial and her dying wishes supercede your philosophical ego.
probably becos your grandma is christian and wanted a christian burial and her dying wishes supercede your philosophical ego.
I don't think Ahnimus is trying to supercede his Grandma's dying wishes or be disrespectful to her at all, my understanding is that he takes issue with the priest trying to use the funeral as an opportunity to sermonize to those who do not share his religious conviction. Unfortunately that seems, judging from other posts on this thread, to be an all too common theme. And it is inappropriate. A funeral is about the deceased. Celebrating their life, respectfully sending them off with all the religious ceremony that they would want. I don't see touting for new business at a funeral to be one of the necissities of this act.
So, during my Grandmother's funeral the priest? asked everyone to pray. I could see all but two heads go down, mine and my Dad's GF, she is an atheist as well. Following the prayer the priest? repeated several times passages from the Bible about life after death. But he didn't seem to be trying to convince any of us that Grandma is in heaven, rather he seemed to be trying to convince us that if we accept Jesus as our savior we will also go to Heaven.
First, I think most of the people there, except the two that didn't pray have accepted Jesus as their savior. Secondly, it doesn't matter how many times you read Bible passages to me, I'm not going to buy it and neither is my Dad's GF.
Why can't funerals be priestless? Why they got to talk religion at a funeral? The last one I went to was a young girl I knew that committed suicide. The priest kept talking about suicide being the one unforgivable sin and basically said the girl was going to hell. When I die, there better not be a priest there or I come back from the dead to kick his ass!
funerals are as you or whoever; arrainge them. my best friend had is mother creamated and had a yard party; then spread her ashes at the spot where she sat and fished for the last 20 some years. if there was a priest; someone requested it.
secondly; why would it be wrong to pray for your grandmother? if she was an athiest; it means she didn't understand. why can't people pray that she receives enlightenment?
it sounds to me like you weren't there for your grandmother. if you were; the way others showed respect for her wouldn't bother you.
I don't think Ahnimus is trying to supercede his Grandma's dying wishes or be disrespectful to her at all, my understanding is that he takes issue with the priest trying to use the funeral as an opportunity to sermonize to those who do not share his religious conviction. Unfortunately that seems, judging from other posts on this thread, to be an all too common theme. And it is inappropriate. A funeral is about the deceased. Celebrating their life, respectfully sending them off with all the religious ceremony that they would want. I don't see touting for new business at a funeral to be one of the necissities of this act.
but ahnimus is preaching athiesm here. so where's the difference? he is preaching athiesm just as the priest sermonized his own religion.
but ahnimus is preaching athiesm here. so where's the difference? he is preaching athiesm just as the priest sermonized his own religion.
He's not preaching athiesm. He is an athiest. He didn't stand up here or at his grandmother's funeral and say I don't believe in god therefore you should be quiet. He didn't make a long speech negating god. He didn't argue with the priest or make a scene. He sat quietly with his head unbowed, because he is an athiest, and he waited for the man entrusted with the burial of his grandmother to stop talking about things he didn't think were appropriate. He simply asked, here on the thread, why was it necessary for the priest to say some of the things he said at the funeral? And how is Ahnimus posting a thread about his view after the fact sermonizing? I have to agree with him.
Why is it necessary?
He's not preaching athiesm. He is an athiest. He didn't stand up here or at his grandmother's funeral and say I don't believe in god therefore you should be quiet. He didn't make a long speech negating god. He didn't argue with the priest or make a scene. He sat quietly with his head unbowed, because he is an athiest, and he waited for the man entrusted with the burial of his grandmother to stop talking about things he didn't think were appropriate. He simply asked, here on the thread, why was it necessary for the priest to say some of the things he said at the funeral? And how is Ahnimus posting a thread about his view after the fact sermonizing? I have to agree with him.
Why is it necessary?
first; a priest reads from a pre-designated funeral ceremony. it can be varied like marriage ceremonies often have the couple presenting their own vows. but the basic ceremony stays the same.
secondly; if you go into a church or chapel or attend any religious ceremony; you've got to expect to be preached to.
a distance part of my family is greek orthodox. when i attended their funerals i sat; stood; read from their books; and did everything as if that had been my religion all my life. why? because that's what aunt sophie believed and by showing the utmost respect in what she believed; i honored her in a deep and personal way. since then; whenever i attend a wedding or funeral; baptism; etc; i participate in honor of the person i'm there for.
if my grandmother wanted a big church funeral with all the bells and whistles; i would've done everything to make it the best she would have wanted. i could put my own beliefs aside for a few hours to do something for her.
when i attended their funerals i sat; stood; read from their books; and did everything as if that had been my religion all my life. why? because that's what aunt sophie believed and by showing the utmost respect in what she believed; i honored her in a deep and personal way. since then; whenever i attend a wedding or funeral; baptism; etc; i participate in honor of the person i'm there for.
if my grandmother wanted a big church funeral with all the bells and whistles; i would've done everything to make it the best she would have wanted. i could put my own beliefs aside for a few hours to do something for her.
This is how I personally feel. I do not attend church for myself, but when I am attending an occasion in honour of another, I can accept that my beliefs are different, while also respecting their beliefs and ceremonies. The conflict does not exist for me.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Personally, I do not think my grandmother would have wanted for a priest to direct comments at atheists. Her wishes would have been a celebration honoring her life. These passages and words spoken by the priest do not reflect my grandmother at all, they may be her beliefs but saying them has no bearing on her life. She certainly wouldn't have complained and I can't blame anyone for it. But to me, the funeral is about honoring their life, set the preaching aside and say something about her. He wasn't telling me my grandmother is heaven, even if he were, I won't believe it and no amount of reading mutilated texts transcribed from ancient stone tablets is going to make me believe she is. But, he kept droning on about accepting Jesus Christ as our savior to grant us eternal life and blah blah blah.
Thankfully, he only spoke half the time. My family spoke some words that reflected the way my grandmother truly was. She was not a preacher, not the type to convince others of her religious beliefs and her only wish for her funeral was that we smile and celebrate her life.
Here is a poem that was found with my grandmother when she passed.
Do not stand at my grave and weep;
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there. I did not die.
Mary Frye (1932)
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
This is how I personally feel. I do not attend church for myself, but when I am attending an occasion in honour of another, I can accept that my beliefs are different, while also respecting their beliefs and ceremonies. The conflict does not exist for me.
i expect the "pep talk" and "converting" speech almost like going to a time share. a priest or PREACHER's job is to preach. their job is to convert or recruit. let the man do his job and be there for who you're there for.
you can't worry about being a hipocrate. an athiest going to any religious ceremony is hipocracy in the highest form.
i expect the "pep talk" and "converting" speech almost like going to a time share. a priest or PREACHER's job is to preach. their job is to convert or recruit. let the man do his job and be there for who you're there for.
you can't worry about being a hipocrate. an athiest going to any religious ceremony is hipocracy in the highest form.
What about... "This person comitted suicide which is the one unforgivable sin so they are doomed to hell for eternity."
Shouldn't that kind of preaching be left out. Then if that's true, why not all preaching?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
He's not preaching athiesm. He is an athiest. He didn't stand up here or at his grandmother's funeral and say I don't believe in god therefore you should be quiet. He didn't make a long speech negating god. He didn't argue with the priest or make a scene. He sat quietly with his head unbowed, because he is an athiest, and he waited for the man entrusted with the burial of his grandmother to stop talking about things he didn't think were appropriate. He simply asked, here on the thread, why was it necessary for the priest to say some of the things he said at the funeral? And how is Ahnimus posting a thread about his view after the fact sermonizing? I have to agree with him.
Why is it necessary?
becos that is what a priest's job is and that is how christian funerals are done. what did he expect?
Another thing dude was telling us was that "funerals are better than banquets" I can't remember his logic because it was lame. But still, I'm not going out of my way to cause death so I can chill at a funeral home. To me, it sounded like this whole speach was a marketting scheme, an advertisement for the funeral home and the Christian doctrine.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Personally, I do not think my grandmother would have wanted for a priest to direct comments at atheists. Her wishes would have been a celebration honoring her life. These passages and words spoken by the priest do not reflect my grandmother at all, they may be her beliefs but saying them has no bearing on her life. She certainly wouldn't have complained and I can't blame anyone for it. But to me, the funeral is about honoring their life, set the preaching aside and say something about her. He wasn't telling me my grandmother is heaven, even if he were, I won't believe it and no amount of reading mutilated texts transcribed from ancient stone tablets is going to make me believe she is. But, he kept droning on about accepting Jesus Christ as our savior to grant us eternal life and blah blah blah.
Thankfully, he only spoke half the time. My family spoke some words that reflected the way my grandmother truly was. She was not a preacher, not the type to convince others of her religious beliefs and her only wish for her funeral was that we smile and celebrate her life.
Here is a poem that was found with my grandmother when she passed.
Do not stand at my grave and weep;
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there. I did not die.
(Unkown Author)
Personally, I do not think my grandmother would have wanted for a priest to direct comments at atheists.
this is your ego talking buddy. he wasn't directing his comments at atheists. part of the purpose of a christian funeral service is to remind believers of the importance their faith in their lives... to renew their devotion to jesus. that's part of the christian service. the only reason you were offended and felt like he was trying to convert you is because you are an arrogant atheist and would have thought anything he said was stupid becos you feel all religion is stupid. he could have spent a half hour praising your grandmother and if he said jesus once you'd have still felt angry and like he was forcing his belief on you.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
this is your ego talking buddy. he wasn't directing his comments at atheists. part of the purpose of a christian funeral service is to remind believers of the importance their faith in their lives... to renew their devotion to jesus. that's part of the christian service. the only reason you were offended and felt like he was trying to convert you is because you are an arrogant atheist and would have thought anything he said was stupid becos you feel all religion is stupid. he could have spent a half hour praising your grandmother and if he said jesus once you'd have still felt angry and like he was forcing his belief on you.
lol, Not at all, I had no complaints about my Grandfather's funeral in which the priest knew my grandparents personally and didn't push an advertisement.
But, I forgot, you were there, you knew my grandmother, you heard the priests words and you can read my mind. Aren't you special.
Lucky I don't take offense to your disrepectful words friend. The thoughts in my mind that day were not "Oh I hate religion" or "Being an atheist stinks". It was "I just lost my last remaining grandparent who was very special to me." and also "I'm happy she went in peace and received what she wanted." Why do you think I would be worried about the mention of Jesus Christ when my family member is lying dead in a box? Is that the kind of thoughts you'd have at your grandmother's funeral? "This damn dude is roman catholic and I'm protestant, fuck him!"?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
becos that is what a priest's job is and that is how christian funerals are done. what did he expect?
I guess, seeing as he was there and he stayed there to honor is Grandmother and is only discussing his issue with the ceremony now in this more appropriate forum, I guess he expected to have to listen to a religious ceremony that was important to and was about his grandmother. I guess what he didn't expect was the used car salesman approach taken by some priests at inappropriate moments. People who are not religious have mentioned over and again in this thread that they went to a funeral and felt they were being "sold" something because the minister took the opportunity to vear off course and try to expand the flock. I have no problem with priests toughting for business. Just don't do it at funerals. Keep it simple. Prayers, hymns, some soothing passage or text. No need to talk about saving souls and damnation and the like. It's just plain rude.
SS I have no problem with religious ceremonies. I have sat through countless catholic, christian,greek orthodox and other assorted wedding ceremonies, baptisms, masses. No problem. I enjoy participating and learning about different religions and being apart of a ceremony that is important to my friend or loved one. BUT it seems that funerals are a very delicate situation and it doesn't seem right to me to be going overboard with comments like this one:
What about... "This person comitted suicide which is the one unforgivable sin so they are doomed to hell for eternity."
Shouldn't that kind of preaching be left out. Then if that's true, why not all preaching?
there is no unforgivable sin. and you pray harder for someone who feels they must committ suicide.
i said my own little prayer for your grandmother when i read this thread. i guess that's where the difference comes in.
there is no unforgivable sin. and you pray harder for someone who feels they must committ suicide.
i said my own little prayer for your grandmother when i read this thread. i guess that's where the difference comes in.
I'm confused, please clarify.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I guess, seeing as he was there and he stayed there to honor is Grandmother and is only discussing his issue with the ceremony now in this more appropriate forum, I guess he expected to have to listen to a religious ceremony that was important to and was about his grandmother. I guess what he didn't expect was the used car salesman approach taken by some priests at inappropriate moments. People who are not religious have mentioned over and again in this thread that they went to a funeral and felt they were being "sold" something because the minister took the opportunity to vear off course and try to expand the flock. I have no problem with priests toughting for business. Just don't do it at funerals. Keep it simple. Prayers, hymns, some soothing passage or text. No need to talk about saving souls and damnation and the like. It's just plain rude.
SS I have no problem with religious ceremonies. I have sat through countless catholic, christian,greek orthodox and other assorted wedding ceremonies, baptisms, masses. No problem. I enjoy participating and learning about different religions and being apart of a ceremony that is important to my friend or loved one. BUT it seems that funerals are a very delicate situation and it doesn't seem right to me to be going overboard with comments like this one:
1. i rather doubt the accuracy of that quote.
2. if you dont like the way x church conducts their funerals, start your own. but that is the practice and if you disagree, tough shit. clearly some people take comfort from it or else the religion would have gone out of business long ago.
maybe becos you made a whole thread about how you were thinking exactly that?
After the fact, and truthfully, the fact that my cousin and his GF split up had my attention more that that. I was concerned for my cousin and also kind of interested in his ex
Some shit just doesn't bother me as much as you'd like to think. At the funeral my thoughts were with my grandmother and those in my family that took it especially hard or put in all the work to organize the funeral. My cousin Tammy stayed up all night compiling a music video slide-show of my grandmother's life. That's the kind of shit I was thinking about at the funeral. The issue of preaching came to mind, oh about the time I created this thread, like 8 days later.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
After the fact, and truthfully, the fact that my cousin and his GF split up had my attention more that that. I was concerned for my cousin and also kind of interested in his ex
Some shit just doesn't bother me as much as you'd like to think. At the funeral my thoughts were with my grandmother and those in my family that took it especially hard or put in all the work to organize the funeral. My cousin Tammy stayed up all night compiling a music video slide-show of my grandmother's life. That's the kind of shit I was thinking about at the funeral. The issue of preaching came to mind, oh about the time I created this thread, like 8 days later.
fair enough. i just wouldnt let it bother you or look for any sort of rational explanation. that's just the way religion operates. sorry about your grandmother.
So, during my Grandmother's funeral the priest? asked everyone to pray. I could see all but two heads go down, mine and my Dad's GF, she is an atheist as well. Following the prayer the priest? repeated several times passages from the Bible about life after death. But he didn't seem to be trying to convince any of us that Grandma is in heaven, rather he seemed to be trying to convince us that if we accept Jesus as our savior we will also go to Heaven.
First, I think most of the people there, except the two that didn't pray have accepted Jesus as their savior. Secondly, it doesn't matter how many times you read Bible passages to me, I'm not going to buy it and neither is my Dad's GF.
Why can't funerals be priestless? Why they got to talk religion at a funeral? The last one I went to was a young girl I knew that committed suicide. The priest kept talking about suicide being the one unforgivable sin and basically said the girl was going to hell. When I die, there better not be a priest there or I come back from the dead to kick his ass!
Funerals can be priestless if the people who make the arrangements make it that way. If you have an issue with this it shouldnt be at the priest, who was doing what he was asked, it should be at who ever made the funeral arrangements.
fair enough. i just wouldnt let it bother you or look for any sort of rational explanation. that's just the way religion operates. sorry about your grandmother.
So you are a religion apologizer?
LoL, Sorry I just had to throw that in there.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Funerals can be priestless if the people who make the arrangements make it that way. If you have an issue with this it shouldnt be at the priest, who was doing what he was asked, it should be at who ever made the funeral arrangements.
Yea I agree, kicking the priests ass wasn't a wise statement. More for shock factor, I'd have to kick my families asses, which I wouldn't hesitate to do. On the other hand if I could, I wouldn't be non-existent and my theory of death would in-fact be wrong and they'd most likely be closer to truth than me, so I couldn't really complain about that either.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
2. if you dont like the way x church conducts their funerals, start your own. but that is the practice and if you disagree, tough shit. clearly some people take comfort from it or else the religion would have gone out of business long ago.
1) Well I don't because it's not the first time I've heard of it happening.
It has happened at a funeral I attended for someone who commited suicide.
And it's not appropriate.
2) Religion will continue on. And I'm sure many people that I know and love will have religious funerals. And I will attend and honor them. I only hope that I don't have the misfortune of having to sit through ceremonies from narrow minded, self serving ministers.
And I have been to many services conducted by priests who don't find it necessary to be so objectionable.
And why you have to be so bloody defensive I'll never know.
I'm not attacking your beliefs. I'm not saying that religious funerals should be banned or that they are even irrelevant. ALL I'm saying is it would be better if SOME priests, ministers could be more considerate in their choice of wording.
know, i just know how to pick my battles and asking a christian priest to not talk about heaven and salvation during a funeral is not one worth fighting. im not even religious.
1) Well I don't because it's not the first time I've heard of it happening.
It has happened at a funeral I attended for someone who commited suicide.
And it's not appropriate.
2) Religion will continue on. And I'm sure many people that I know and love will have religious funerals. And I will attend and honor them. I only hope that I don't have the misfortune of having to sit through ceremonies from narrow minded, self serving ministers.
And I have been to many services conducted by priests who don't find it necessary to be so objectionable.
And why you have to be so bloody defensive I'll never know.
I'm not attacking your beliefs. I'm not saying that religious funerals should be banned or that they are even irrelevant. ALL I'm saying is it would be better if SOME priests, ministers could be more considerate in their choice of wording.
and my beliefs were never under attack. im not religious. i just have enough xp dealing with them that i know it's futile to try and reason with the devout. you have better odds of beating a brick wall at tennis.
know, i just know how to pick my battles and asking a christian priest to not talk about heaven and salvation during a funeral is not one worth fighting. im not even religious.
I suppose that'd be like asking a Jihadist not to suicide bomb a bus-stop.
Or maybe it'd be like asking G dub to leave his religious beliefs out of his politics.
Or like asking a religious biology professor to forget about Genesis when he's teaching evolution.
Or, is death a solely religious endeavour?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
probably becos your grandma is christian and wanted a christian burial and her dying wishes supercede your philosophical ego.
I don't think Ahnimus is trying to supercede his Grandma's dying wishes or be disrespectful to her at all, my understanding is that he takes issue with the priest trying to use the funeral as an opportunity to sermonize to those who do not share his religious conviction. Unfortunately that seems, judging from other posts on this thread, to be an all too common theme. And it is inappropriate. A funeral is about the deceased. Celebrating their life, respectfully sending them off with all the religious ceremony that they would want. I don't see touting for new business at a funeral to be one of the necissities of this act.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
funerals are as you or whoever; arrainge them. my best friend had is mother creamated and had a yard party; then spread her ashes at the spot where she sat and fished for the last 20 some years. if there was a priest; someone requested it.
secondly; why would it be wrong to pray for your grandmother? if she was an athiest; it means she didn't understand. why can't people pray that she receives enlightenment?
it sounds to me like you weren't there for your grandmother. if you were; the way others showed respect for her wouldn't bother you.
but ahnimus is preaching athiesm here. so where's the difference? he is preaching athiesm just as the priest sermonized his own religion.
He's not preaching athiesm. He is an athiest. He didn't stand up here or at his grandmother's funeral and say I don't believe in god therefore you should be quiet. He didn't make a long speech negating god. He didn't argue with the priest or make a scene. He sat quietly with his head unbowed, because he is an athiest, and he waited for the man entrusted with the burial of his grandmother to stop talking about things he didn't think were appropriate. He simply asked, here on the thread, why was it necessary for the priest to say some of the things he said at the funeral? And how is Ahnimus posting a thread about his view after the fact sermonizing? I have to agree with him.
Why is it necessary?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
first; a priest reads from a pre-designated funeral ceremony. it can be varied like marriage ceremonies often have the couple presenting their own vows. but the basic ceremony stays the same.
secondly; if you go into a church or chapel or attend any religious ceremony; you've got to expect to be preached to.
a distance part of my family is greek orthodox. when i attended their funerals i sat; stood; read from their books; and did everything as if that had been my religion all my life. why? because that's what aunt sophie believed and by showing the utmost respect in what she believed; i honored her in a deep and personal way. since then; whenever i attend a wedding or funeral; baptism; etc; i participate in honor of the person i'm there for.
if my grandmother wanted a big church funeral with all the bells and whistles; i would've done everything to make it the best she would have wanted. i could put my own beliefs aside for a few hours to do something for her.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
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Thankfully, he only spoke half the time. My family spoke some words that reflected the way my grandmother truly was. She was not a preacher, not the type to convince others of her religious beliefs and her only wish for her funeral was that we smile and celebrate her life.
Here is a poem that was found with my grandmother when she passed.
Do not stand at my grave and weep;
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there. I did not die.
Mary Frye (1932)
i expect the "pep talk" and "converting" speech almost like going to a time share. a priest or PREACHER's job is to preach. their job is to convert or recruit. let the man do his job and be there for who you're there for.
you can't worry about being a hipocrate. an athiest going to any religious ceremony is hipocracy in the highest form.
What about... "This person comitted suicide which is the one unforgivable sin so they are doomed to hell for eternity."
Shouldn't that kind of preaching be left out. Then if that's true, why not all preaching?
becos that is what a priest's job is and that is how christian funerals are done. what did he expect?
It's by Mary Frye (1932) Ryan.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
this is your ego talking buddy. he wasn't directing his comments at atheists. part of the purpose of a christian funeral service is to remind believers of the importance their faith in their lives... to renew their devotion to jesus. that's part of the christian service. the only reason you were offended and felt like he was trying to convert you is because you are an arrogant atheist and would have thought anything he said was stupid becos you feel all religion is stupid. he could have spent a half hour praising your grandmother and if he said jesus once you'd have still felt angry and like he was forcing his belief on you.
Thank you, I gave credit
lol, Not at all, I had no complaints about my Grandfather's funeral in which the priest knew my grandparents personally and didn't push an advertisement.
But, I forgot, you were there, you knew my grandmother, you heard the priests words and you can read my mind. Aren't you special.
Lucky I don't take offense to your disrepectful words friend. The thoughts in my mind that day were not "Oh I hate religion" or "Being an atheist stinks". It was "I just lost my last remaining grandparent who was very special to me." and also "I'm happy she went in peace and received what she wanted." Why do you think I would be worried about the mention of Jesus Christ when my family member is lying dead in a box? Is that the kind of thoughts you'd have at your grandmother's funeral? "This damn dude is roman catholic and I'm protestant, fuck him!"?
I guess, seeing as he was there and he stayed there to honor is Grandmother and is only discussing his issue with the ceremony now in this more appropriate forum, I guess he expected to have to listen to a religious ceremony that was important to and was about his grandmother. I guess what he didn't expect was the used car salesman approach taken by some priests at inappropriate moments. People who are not religious have mentioned over and again in this thread that they went to a funeral and felt they were being "sold" something because the minister took the opportunity to vear off course and try to expand the flock. I have no problem with priests toughting for business. Just don't do it at funerals. Keep it simple. Prayers, hymns, some soothing passage or text. No need to talk about saving souls and damnation and the like. It's just plain rude.
SS I have no problem with religious ceremonies. I have sat through countless catholic, christian,greek orthodox and other assorted wedding ceremonies, baptisms, masses. No problem. I enjoy participating and learning about different religions and being apart of a ceremony that is important to my friend or loved one. BUT it seems that funerals are a very delicate situation and it doesn't seem right to me to be going overboard with comments like this one:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
there is no unforgivable sin. and you pray harder for someone who feels they must committ suicide.
i said my own little prayer for your grandmother when i read this thread. i guess that's where the difference comes in.
I'm confused, please clarify.
maybe becos you made a whole thread about how you were thinking exactly that?
1. i rather doubt the accuracy of that quote.
2. if you dont like the way x church conducts their funerals, start your own. but that is the practice and if you disagree, tough shit. clearly some people take comfort from it or else the religion would have gone out of business long ago.
After the fact, and truthfully, the fact that my cousin and his GF split up had my attention more that that. I was concerned for my cousin and also kind of interested in his ex
Some shit just doesn't bother me as much as you'd like to think. At the funeral my thoughts were with my grandmother and those in my family that took it especially hard or put in all the work to organize the funeral. My cousin Tammy stayed up all night compiling a music video slide-show of my grandmother's life. That's the kind of shit I was thinking about at the funeral. The issue of preaching came to mind, oh about the time I created this thread, like 8 days later.
fair enough. i just wouldnt let it bother you or look for any sort of rational explanation. that's just the way religion operates. sorry about your grandmother.
Funerals can be priestless if the people who make the arrangements make it that way. If you have an issue with this it shouldnt be at the priest, who was doing what he was asked, it should be at who ever made the funeral arrangements.
So you are a religion apologizer?
LoL, Sorry I just had to throw that in there.
Yea I agree, kicking the priests ass wasn't a wise statement. More for shock factor, I'd have to kick my families asses, which I wouldn't hesitate to do. On the other hand if I could, I wouldn't be non-existent and my theory of death would in-fact be wrong and they'd most likely be closer to truth than me, so I couldn't really complain about that either.
1) Well I don't because it's not the first time I've heard of it happening.
It has happened at a funeral I attended for someone who commited suicide.
And it's not appropriate.
2) Religion will continue on. And I'm sure many people that I know and love will have religious funerals. And I will attend and honor them. I only hope that I don't have the misfortune of having to sit through ceremonies from narrow minded, self serving ministers.
And I have been to many services conducted by priests who don't find it necessary to be so objectionable.
And why you have to be so bloody defensive I'll never know.
I'm not attacking your beliefs. I'm not saying that religious funerals should be banned or that they are even irrelevant. ALL I'm saying is it would be better if SOME priests, ministers could be more considerate in their choice of wording.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
know, i just know how to pick my battles and asking a christian priest to not talk about heaven and salvation during a funeral is not one worth fighting. im not even religious.
and my beliefs were never under attack. im not religious. i just have enough xp dealing with them that i know it's futile to try and reason with the devout. you have better odds of beating a brick wall at tennis.
I suppose that'd be like asking a Jihadist not to suicide bomb a bus-stop.
Or maybe it'd be like asking G dub to leave his religious beliefs out of his politics.
Or like asking a religious biology professor to forget about Genesis when he's teaching evolution.
Or, is death a solely religious endeavour?