it makes one eurocentric. that is if you are from europe or have european heritage. it makes all other outlooks and opinions that are contrary to the eurocentric(in this instance) view irrelevant and basically non existent.
the universal concept of motherhood for example in the portrayal of the madonna and child. this is only and can only be representative of a christian ideal in a society that knows who the madonna and child are and what they represent. therefore to hold madonna and child up as a universal symbol of motherhood is wrong and discounts the majority of the world, whose contrary view is dismissed. what counts is what the dominant society decides irrelevant of whether it is 'truth' or not.
of course i could be misunderstanding. help me out fins.
That's a difficult one, because if you posit an anti-universalist image of motherhood, which is different and "other" - deliberately outside the dominant Eurocentric view - you unwittingly reinforce that self/other binary that is at the heart of Eurocentric discourses of control. See what I mean? It's better to subvert the structures of dominant discourses from within, as long as you're not liable to too much bribery and corruption.
I was curious, because the way I have been referring to universals is as a concept that is not in any way defined by anyone or any system. By it's universal nature, it cannot be defined. No one can hold a market on it. And when one tries, they reveal that they are not talking about that which is universal. Given this concept, it fully encompasses consciousness, allowing it to be it's full potential. So I see the idea of "contracted consciousness" as a definition of some sort, whether personal or as defined within a school of thought.
well. we're all curious angelica. but when you talk of universality as all encompassing; affecting and concerning or involving all. or a premise or concept as something used and understood by all, it brings up assumptions not in evidence. universality is a construct based on imagined community.
you are right, no one holds a market on it, but as a concept (albeit a flawed concept) it can be defined and has been. but in labelling something as universal, you yourself are guilty of that which you are protesting. the fact is you and i and everyone else who takes their lead from Western civilisation will have their view askewed in favour of the dominant hegemony. it is only when one acknowledges that their view is biased and therefore NOT universal that the patriarchal rhetoric can broken down and challenged.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
well. we're all curious angelica. but when you talk of universality as all encompassing; affecting and concerning or involving all. or a premise or concept as something used and understood by all, it brings up assumptions not in evidence. universality is a construct based on imagined community.
you are right, no one holds a market on it, but as a concept (albeit a flawed concept) it can be defined and has been. but in labelling something as universal, you yourself are guilty of that which you are protesting. the fact is you and i and everyone else who takes their lead from Western civilisation will have their view askewed in favour of the dominant hegemony. it is only when one acknowledges that their view is biased and therefore NOT universal that the patriarchal rhetoric can broken down and challenged.
I realize all our views are biased. I'm talking about what is universal and of the universe, within and beyond our individuality. We are all still one with all that is universal, and embraced by all that is universal. We personally channel all that is universal each day, through our thoughts, words and deeds. Everything about us stems from the universal source. We can focus on what is universal and attune to it. We can align with and sense the Presence of this oneness in all aspects of life, through our individuality. I'm not talking about academic concepts of "universal" that are dependent on contexts--I'm talking about the ultimate context of what IS, beneath what we learn in school and beneath everything. Many, many people speak to experiences with the underlying presence of Oneness. From all around the world and beneath the human slants and the cultural perspectives, there remains universiality with such experience. Even to the degree that it's been uncovered and studied neurologically as pertaining to buddhists to Christians. I can understand it if based on your personal experience you disagree.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I realize all our views are biased. I'm talking about what is universal and of the universe, within and beyond our individuality. We are all still one with all that is universal, and embraced by all that is universal. We personally channel all that is universal each day, through our thoughts, words and deeds. Everything about us stems from the universal source. We can focus on what is universal and attune to it. We can align with and sense the Presence of this oneness in all aspects of life, through our individuality. I'm not talking about academic concepts of "universal" that are dependent on contexts--I'm talking about the ultimate context of what IS, beneath what we learn in school and beneath everything. Many, many people speak to experiences with the underlying presence of Oneness. From all around the world and beneath the human slants and the cultural perspectives, there remains universiality with such experience. Even to the degree that it's been uncovered and studied neurologically as pertaining to buddhists to Christians. I can understand it if based on your personal experience you disagree.
oh this is just semantics. you are using the term universal as the adjectival form of universe. this is where the communication breakdown is.
you are binding all mankind within the same universe, yes?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh this is just semantics. you are using the term universal as the adjectival form of universe. this is where the communication breakdown is.
you are binding all mankind within the same universe, yes?
I'm referring to the: totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos; macrocosm.
It is all that is. the totality of it underlies everything. edit: this totality is universal to everything.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm referring to the: totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos; macrocosm.
It is all that is. the totality of it underlies everything. edit: this totality is universal to everything.
as i said, semantics. you're applying universal to universe.
when i speak of something that is universal i'm not usually talking of the universe as an homogenous entity. im not actually speaking about the universe at all. when i speak of the universe, those are the words i use - of the universe. i think, and it appears im not the only one, of universal as something else. though you are correct angelica, so are we.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't see what any of this has to do with Joshua Mauldin
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
as i said, semantics. you're applying universal to universe.
when i speak of something that is universal i'm not usually talking of the universe as an homogenous entity. im not actually speaking about the universe at all. when i speak of the universe, those are the words i use - of the universe. i think, and it appears im not the only one, of universal as something else. though you are correct angelica, so are we.
Of course.
gue and I were discussing the concept, and then Fins agreed with gue. And made the comment about universalism contracting in terms of consciousness. I was interested in what context he meant that, because it didn't fit with what I was seeing and universals. And as with my context, other contexts of universiality are what they are relative to the parameters of such contexts.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Can you have consciousness that is not connected to the universe? Can you have consciousness not connected to the individual? Can you have consciousness not connected to culture/society? What is universal is universal to consciousness too.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Can you have consciousness that is not connected to the universe? Can you have consciousness not connected to the individual? Can you have consciousness not connected to culture/society? What is universal is universal to consciousness too.
That is a no-brainer. Everything is natural and therefor universal.
Universalism is never used that way though. It implies something that exist amongst all agents of a particular group. I.e. Consciousness is universal to humans. Which can be argued for comatose patients.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That is a no-brainer. Everything is natural and therefor universal.
Universalism is never used that way though. It implies something that exist amongst all agents of a particular group. I.e. Consciousness is universal to humans. Which can be argued for comatose patients.
everything is natural?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That is a no-brainer. Everything is natural and therefor universal.
Universalism is never used that way though. It implies something that exist amongst all agents of a particular group. I.e. Consciousness is universal to humans. Which can be argued for comatose patients.
I know. The universe also is universally present across the board for everything. Which is the same thing you are referring to. Something that exists amongst all agents of ANY group. The universe is universal to everything. This is the drop of water/ocean thing. This is how an individual can tap into universiality. We do all the time. Through the universal in us, we have access to glimpsing/communing with the universal in everything.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
w00t w00t hybernate in my cave, east-lake viewing, contemplate in my brain shit that I been through and hey, these positronic pathways are groovin' wackacon skull on the wall just to prove it.
"Measure what is measurable, and make measurable what is not so."
- Galileo
"If we subject everything to reason, our religion will have nothing mysterious or supernatural in it. If we violate the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous."
- Pascal
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I know. The universe also is universally present across the board for everything. Which is the same thing you are referring to. Something that exists amongst all agents of ANY group. The universe is universal to everything. This is the drop of water/ocean thing. This is how an individual can tap into universiality. We do all the time. Through the universal in us, we have access to glimpsing/communing with the universal in everything.
Uh. Forgive me for being skeptical. Where is your proof?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Uh. Forgive me for being skeptical. Where is your proof?
The universe is in everything. What is "universal" to everything flows through each of us. By aligning to what is universal, we align with the totality of all and can perceive it.
I'll understand if the logic is lost on you, though. It's a "you gotta experience it to really believe it type of thing" for sure.
By the way, remember awhile back when I asked you to prove to me that atoms exist? I'm still waiting on that.................
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
The universe is in everything. What is "universal" to everything flows through each of us. By aligning to what is universal, we align with the totality of all and can perceive it.
I'll understand if the logic is lost on you, though. It's a "you gotta experience it to really believe it type of thing" for sure.
By the way, remember awhile back when I asked you to prove to me that atoms exist? I'm still waiting on that.................
Atoms have been proven by scientific method.
Where are your double-blind controlled experiments?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm not getting into that. You know what I mean. I'm not gonna debate over this bullshit about language.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm not getting into that. You know what I mean. I'm not gonna debate over this bullshit about language.
its not about language ryan. as not everything in our universe is natural, i was curious to get a definition from you so i could move forward. all i asked for was a clarification.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
its not about language ryan. as not everything in our universe is natural, i was curious to get a definition from you so i could move forward. all i asked for was a clarification.
Give me an example of something that is supernatural?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
If you don't understand the validity of the logic of what I'm saying about universals and how you can tap the whole through what is universal within you, and/or if you don't comprehend the value of the map of what I've said, and if you are not interested in finding out the "truthiness" for yourself, then you will not see what I'm saying about universals. And I can live with that.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
That's a difficult one, because if you posit an anti-universalist image of motherhood, which is different and "other" - deliberately outside the dominant Eurocentric view - you unwittingly reinforce that self/other binary that is at the heart of Eurocentric discourses of control. See what I mean? It's better to subvert the structures of dominant discourses from within, as long as you're not liable to too much bribery and corruption.
G'nite.
well. we're all curious angelica. but when you talk of universality as all encompassing; affecting and concerning or involving all. or a premise or concept as something used and understood by all, it brings up assumptions not in evidence. universality is a construct based on imagined community.
you are right, no one holds a market on it, but as a concept (albeit a flawed concept) it can be defined and has been. but in labelling something as universal, you yourself are guilty of that which you are protesting. the fact is you and i and everyone else who takes their lead from Western civilisation will have their view askewed in favour of the dominant hegemony. it is only when one acknowledges that their view is biased and therefore NOT universal that the patriarchal rhetoric can broken down and challenged.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
oh this is just semantics. you are using the term universal as the adjectival form of universe. this is where the communication breakdown is.
you are binding all mankind within the same universe, yes?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm referring to the: totality of known or supposed objects and phenomena throughout space; the cosmos; macrocosm.
It is all that is. the totality of it underlies everything. edit: this totality is universal to everything.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
as i said, semantics. you're applying universal to universe.
when i speak of something that is universal i'm not usually talking of the universe as an homogenous entity. im not actually speaking about the universe at all. when i speak of the universe, those are the words i use - of the universe. i think, and it appears im not the only one, of universal as something else. though you are correct angelica, so are we.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
gue and I were discussing the concept, and then Fins agreed with gue. And made the comment about universalism contracting in terms of consciousness. I was interested in what context he meant that, because it didn't fit with what I was seeing and universals. And as with my context, other contexts of universiality are what they are relative to the parameters of such contexts.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
That is a no-brainer. Everything is natural and therefor universal.
Universalism is never used that way though. It implies something that exist amongst all agents of a particular group. I.e. Consciousness is universal to humans. Which can be argued for comatose patients.
everything is natural?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I've no evidence to suggest otherwise. Do you?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"Measure what is measurable, and make measurable what is not so."
- Galileo
"If we subject everything to reason, our religion will have nothing mysterious or supernatural in it. If we violate the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous."
- Pascal
Uh. Forgive me for being skeptical. Where is your proof?
I'll understand if the logic is lost on you, though.
By the way, remember awhile back when I asked you to prove to me that atoms exist? I'm still waiting on that.................
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
define everything.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Atoms have been proven by scientific method.
Where are your double-blind controlled experiments?
I'm not getting into that. You know what I mean. I'm not gonna debate over this bullshit about language.
its not about language ryan. as not everything in our universe is natural, i was curious to get a definition from you so i could move forward. all i asked for was a clarification.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Give me an example of something that is supernatural?
did i say supernatural?
the built environment is not natural.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
human imagination?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
If you don't understand the validity of the logic of what I'm saying about universals and how you can tap the whole through what is universal within you, and/or if you don't comprehend the value of the map of what I've said, and if you are not interested in finding out the "truthiness" for yourself, then you will not see what I'm saying about universals. And I can live with that.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Most certainly it is.
By extension of us, it is natural.
It exists as a pattern in the brain.