could have. but i dont think he would have. anyway, it was conjecture on my part. i think for all the "war president" rhetoric bush tosses around, gore would have handled both of these wars far better than bush has done.
why so? what has bush done that's been effective? from the beginning he's used divisive rhetoric to alienate our allies. he refuses to work with them or share control, which lead to things like us bombing canadian troops instead of the taliban, he ignored generals on multiple occasions that said more troops were needed (in both conflicts) and he had no post-invasion plan for EITHER nation before we invaded. gore's a smart guy and knows he's not a military general. he would have listened to his advisors and let the experts run the show and made sure it was done cohesively.
i made a huge mistake campaigning for nader that year...
based on what i would do if i were a part of a group and the leader drew fire from a group of people we couldn't beat; i'd kill him. just being asociated with him is a death sentence. since we are not dealing with reasonable people; we can't expect them to think reasonably. but that's what i would do.
based on what i would do if i were a part of a group and the leader drew fire from a group of people we couldn't beat; i'd kill him. just being asociated with him is a death sentence. since we are not dealing with reasonable people; we can't expect them to think reasonably. but that's what i would do.
only al-quaeda wants the fire... they thrive on it. makes them seem more legitimately threatening and ups recruiting.
It certainly makes policy easier to dictate...something to rally people around....make even an abstract concept of terrorism be labelled to one face.
However that politcal route has a consequance that being once you paint a face to an abstract concept you will undoublty create some sort of hate not just for the man (where reasoning for ill feelings is more than acceptable) but for who he is, the colour he is, the race he is, etc.
Certainly not all, in fact the majority, will fall into that hate trap but it does create more problems.
even better!! ... divisiveness makes it harder for dissent ...
i always wonder, and you can call me a conspircay nut fine, about the connection in the Carlysle Group. Both members of the Bush and Bin Laden families are members, and it is an orginization that profits from war, among other things.
Bush on one side, Bin Laden on the other, meanwhile both their families are making bank....
But it wouldn't surprise me. The guy was too much of a narcissitic fuck to be able to keep quiet all these years. There was a time he was releasing a video a month. Now its Al Zawahiri and has been for some time. If Bin Laden were alive, it would be a tweak to Geroge Bush every time he made a new video. And he hasn't. I think alot of those purported videos and audios were so generic they could have been made in anticipation of Bin Laden's death to keep us guessing.
I also think it serves our government's interests to keep us thinking he's alive. Because if the dude is dead, aint the war over?
So why no videos in over a year or more? Dead. He may have been killed at Tora Bora. If he was, Al Qaeda would have had to admit a huge defeat by saying so.
But it wouldn't surprise me. The guy was too much of a narcissitic fuck to be able to keep quiet all these years. There was a time he was releasing a video a month. Now its Al Zawahiri and has been for some time. If Bin Laden were alive, it would be a tweak to Geroge Bush every time he made a new video. And he hasn't. I think alot of those purported videos and audios were so generic they could have been made in anticipation of Bin Laden's death to keep us guessing.
i'm with ya here. you make a strong argument for it being true
I also think it serves our government's interests to keep us thinking he's alive. Because if the dude is dead, aint the war over?
this part, not so much. I do not think Bush would withhold this information. why? to profit from the war personally? to start his own oil company when he retires?
dont you think he ( or any sitting president) will want to be remembered as the president who got bin laden?
keeping bin ladens death a secret would not benefit his legacy.
I believe if bin laden is very caught or proven to be dead in the next 2 years, Bush's legacy will be hurt even worse. he will be known as the guy who fucked up Iraq (although history is still be written there, somethings gotta give) and the president how couldnt catch the man who attacked our country on 9/11.
but if their purpose is to become a legitimate "government" or whatever they're seeking; killing the rouge would give them acceptance.
they have no desire to become a legitimate government. who gave you that nonsense idea? they dont even have a unified command structure or a unified nationality or a unified ethnic background. all they have in common is the koran and a hatred of the west. their goal is not to become a government or legitimate political group, their goal is destruction of western power. and they dont care how much heat it gets them, they firmly believe they are dying for a noble cause in some sort of battle against good and evil. they dont give a damn about international acceptance.
with it's state of the art defense & intelligence capabilities, why can't the world's most powerful nation capture/kill a mere mortal like Osama? just curious.
why? becasue you read a few government provided news clippings in the last few days. the story and info was provided by a "pentagon insider"... aka we were spoon fed bullshit
why? becasue you read a few government provided news clippings in the last few days. the story and info was provided by a "pentagon insider"... aka we were spoon fed bullshit
how is that not a logical explanation? do you know where this area in question is located? are you aware that this may be the only place on earth where osama is welcomed and can move about relatively freely without the risk of a government intervention?
are you that closed minded to think any information that comes from the US government, the media, or several experts is complete bullshit?
people from many different countries, educational backgrounds, religions, all confirm that this might be the only place he can be.
where do you think he is? and who spoon fed you the bullshit?
i havent seen any logical explanations from my government about the "war on terror" yet
do you know where this area in question is located?
why yes, actually i do. your intelectaul challenges on this board are quite boring. you are not the only person with a brain and a map.
are you aware that this may be the only place on earth where osama is welcomed and can move about relatively freely without the risk of a government intervention?
whether he is there or not is irrelevant. if the US military wanted to extract him, they would. period, end of story. i was only pointing out that most "info" or "intel" is provided by the US government and miliatry, they have an agenda, as always, which is not the same agenda they portray to me and you. read your articles in the mainstream media about the "war on terror" or intel, and it is always provided by the Pentagon or DC. the media then just repeats it as fact. every single time.
are you that closed minded to think any information that comes from the US government
no, i am open minded enough to realize the constant lies and spin the government feeds the public.
the media
i do not trust one thing the mainstream media tells me. they dont discuss real issues, they are consumed with feeding you worthless "stories" to keep you distracted from the real discussions that need to take place. at work today around the cooler first mention poverty, see the reaction, then mention anna nicole smith and watch the reaction. i do this to entertain myself, you will enjoy the obvious results. i do enjoy the independant media and other media outlets that focus on the truth and real news worthy stories or topics. Democracy Now! being an example
or several experts is complete bullshit
depends on the expert, i tend to trust them more than the government and mainstream media, as i hope you do
people from many different countries, educational backgrounds, religions, all confirm that this might be the only place he can be.
irrelevant to the point i am making about spoon fed propaganda. and dont worry, if you want to get technical i can say the same about Iraq WMD
where do you think he is? and who spoon fed you the bullshit?
i never was a fan of "wheres Waldo" because it doesnt matter where he is, if Uncle Sam doesnt want to find him
i havent seen any logical explanations from my government about the "war on terror" yet why yes, actually i do. your intelectaul challenges on this board are quite boring. you are not the only person with a brain and a map. whether he is there or not is irrelevant. if the US military wanted to extract him, they would. period, end of story. i was only pointing out that most "info" or "intel" is provided by the US government and miliatry, they have an agenda, as always, which is not the same agenda they portray to me and you. read your articles in the mainstream media about the "war on terror" or intel, and it is always provided by the Pentagon or DC. the media then just repeats it as fact. every single time.
no, i am open minded enough to realize the constant lies and spin the government feeds the public. i do not trust one thing the mainstream media tells me. they dont discuss real issues, they are consumed with feeding you worthless "stories" to keep you distracted from the real discussions that need to take place. at work today around the cooler first mention poverty, see the reaction, then mention anna nicole smith and watch the reaction. i do this to entertain myself, you will enjoy the obvious results. i do enjoy the independant media and other media outlets that focus on the truth and real news worthy stories or topics. Democracy Now! being an example depends on the expert, i tend to trust them more than the government and mainstream media, as i hope you do
irrelevant to the point i am making about spoon fed propaganda. and dont worry, if you want to get technical i can say the same about Iraq WMD
i never was a fan of "wheres Waldo" because it doesnt matter where he is, if Uncle Sam doesnt want to find him
yeah man, damn the man!
if our intel is not supposed to come from the pentagon, where should our defense intelligence info come from? aren't they the very definition of experts? all they do is watch things like that... so who is better qualified to tell us where bin laden might be? who would you maybe trust if they said bin laden is in X?
if our intel is not supposed to come from the pentagon, where should our defense intelligence info come from? aren't they the very definition of experts? all they do is watch things like that... so who is better qualified to tell us where bin laden might be? who would you maybe trust if they said bin laden is in X?
i guess you didnt learn anything about our "defense intelligence" from our Iraq debacle.
surely your memory is better than that friend
ps... again my point is, it does not matter where he is, if uncle sam doesnt want him captured.
thats great. but that explaination of his whereabouts comes from many more sources then the american government.
you seem very sure of yourself yet you are 100% wrong. US military can not go into pakistan.
obviously we differ on this matter. i think history has shown uncle sam goes where he wants, when he wants, for whatever reason he wants. trust me, a team could extract this guy without anyone even fucking realizing it.
the funny thing is the 2 way street your like minded people present... "the american military is the greatest of all time, the only true superpower"...while at the same time "we cant extract one 6'5 arab from a foreign country, because they wont let us"... considering his area of hiding happens to be right on the afghan border i dont think it is all that "impossible" almost laughable if it wasnt so sad.
and considering this administartions ithcy trigger finger and unilateral approach to "national security" i think we could force pakistans cooperation if we really wanted to.
obviously we differ on this matter. i think history has shown uncle sam goes where he wants, when he wants, for whatever reason he wants. trust me, a team could extract this guy without anyone even fucking realizing it.
while I appreciate your enthusiasm about the ability of the US military, your believing this shows exactly how little you know of the area.
the funny thing is the 2 way street your like minded people present... "the american military is the greatest of all time, the only true superpower"...while at the same time "we cant extract one 6'5 arab from a foreign country, because they wont let us"... considering his area of hiding happens to be right on the afghan border i dont think it is all that "impossible" almost laughable if it wasnt so sad.
and considering this administartions ithcy trigger finger and unilateral approach to "national security" i think we could force pakistans cooperation if we really wanted to.
again this is just your opinion. opinions are like assholes, we all have one.
if we always use the approach you suggest then why didnt we invade North Korea. I mean, those fuckers actually tested a nuke.
with it's state of the art defense & intelligence capabilities, why can't the world's most powerful nation capture/kill a mere mortal like Osama? just curious.
good question...I wonder about that, too...
I did not read through the entire thread, yet, but I'm sure there a few excuses de jour...
My guess is that we haven't found him because of the time it takes to identify the remains of someone in a hut after a 1000 lb bomb was dropped on it..........
all I know is "wanted dead or alive" was uttered by our great leader...and, well you know the story..
perhaps there are "legitimate reasons" that bin laden has not been found...perhaps there aren't...but at the end of the day....the boggieman is still out there....
and please don't give me the "we can't go after him because Pakistan won't let us"....puuuleazzz....when did this administration give a fuck what another country says, does, or wants....(other that Israel)....?
Comments
I seriously doubt that but ok.
nah, he would have already ceded the united states to those liberal hippy french and it woulda been chirac's job to hand over the keys.
I sure hope so but what makes you so sure?
why so? what has bush done that's been effective? from the beginning he's used divisive rhetoric to alienate our allies. he refuses to work with them or share control, which lead to things like us bombing canadian troops instead of the taliban, he ignored generals on multiple occasions that said more troops were needed (in both conflicts) and he had no post-invasion plan for EITHER nation before we invaded. gore's a smart guy and knows he's not a military general. he would have listened to his advisors and let the experts run the show and made sure it was done cohesively.
i made a huge mistake campaigning for nader that year...
based on what i would do if i were a part of a group and the leader drew fire from a group of people we couldn't beat; i'd kill him. just being asociated with him is a death sentence. since we are not dealing with reasonable people; we can't expect them to think reasonably. but that's what i would do.
only al-quaeda wants the fire... they thrive on it. makes them seem more legitimately threatening and ups recruiting.
even better!! ... divisiveness makes it harder for dissent ...
Bush on one side, Bin Laden on the other, meanwhile both their families are making bank....
but if their purpose is to become a legitimate "government" or whatever they're seeking; killing the rouge would give them acceptance.
But it wouldn't surprise me. The guy was too much of a narcissitic fuck to be able to keep quiet all these years. There was a time he was releasing a video a month. Now its Al Zawahiri and has been for some time. If Bin Laden were alive, it would be a tweak to Geroge Bush every time he made a new video. And he hasn't. I think alot of those purported videos and audios were so generic they could have been made in anticipation of Bin Laden's death to keep us guessing.
I also think it serves our government's interests to keep us thinking he's alive. Because if the dude is dead, aint the war over?
So why no videos in over a year or more? Dead. He may have been killed at Tora Bora. If he was, Al Qaeda would have had to admit a huge defeat by saying so.
this part, not so much. I do not think Bush would withhold this information. why? to profit from the war personally? to start his own oil company when he retires?
dont you think he ( or any sitting president) will want to be remembered as the president who got bin laden?
keeping bin ladens death a secret would not benefit his legacy.
I believe if bin laden is very caught or proven to be dead in the next 2 years, Bush's legacy will be hurt even worse. he will be known as the guy who fucked up Iraq (although history is still be written there, somethings gotta give) and the president how couldnt catch the man who attacked our country on 9/11.
thats true
they have no desire to become a legitimate government. who gave you that nonsense idea? they dont even have a unified command structure or a unified nationality or a unified ethnic background. all they have in common is the koran and a hatred of the west. their goal is not to become a government or legitimate political group, their goal is destruction of western power. and they dont care how much heat it gets them, they firmly believe they are dying for a noble cause in some sort of battle against good and evil. they dont give a damn about international acceptance.
man, where do you get your news?
you have to keep the boogey man alive...
why? becasue you read a few government provided news clippings in the last few days. the story and info was provided by a "pentagon insider"... aka we were spoon fed bullshit
how is that not a logical explanation? do you know where this area in question is located? are you aware that this may be the only place on earth where osama is welcomed and can move about relatively freely without the risk of a government intervention?
are you that closed minded to think any information that comes from the US government, the media, or several experts is complete bullshit?
people from many different countries, educational backgrounds, religions, all confirm that this might be the only place he can be.
where do you think he is? and who spoon fed you the bullshit?
no, i am open minded enough to realize the constant lies and spin the government feeds the public. i do not trust one thing the mainstream media tells me. they dont discuss real issues, they are consumed with feeding you worthless "stories" to keep you distracted from the real discussions that need to take place. at work today around the cooler first mention poverty, see the reaction, then mention anna nicole smith and watch the reaction. i do this to entertain myself, you will enjoy the obvious results. i do enjoy the independant media and other media outlets that focus on the truth and real news worthy stories or topics. Democracy Now! being an example depends on the expert, i tend to trust them more than the government and mainstream media, as i hope you do
irrelevant to the point i am making about spoon fed propaganda. and dont worry, if you want to get technical i can say the same about Iraq WMD
i never was a fan of "wheres Waldo" because it doesnt matter where he is, if Uncle Sam doesnt want to find him
yeah man, damn the man!
if our intel is not supposed to come from the pentagon, where should our defense intelligence info come from? aren't they the very definition of experts? all they do is watch things like that... so who is better qualified to tell us where bin laden might be? who would you maybe trust if they said bin laden is in X?
i guess you didnt learn anything about our "defense intelligence" from our Iraq debacle.
surely your memory is better than that friend
ps... again my point is, it does not matter where he is, if uncle sam doesnt want him captured.
you seem very sure of yourself yet you are 100% wrong. US military can not go into pakistan.
you have only been spoon fed bullshit into believing that.
obviously we differ on this matter. i think history has shown uncle sam goes where he wants, when he wants, for whatever reason he wants. trust me, a team could extract this guy without anyone even fucking realizing it.
the funny thing is the 2 way street your like minded people present... "the american military is the greatest of all time, the only true superpower"...while at the same time "we cant extract one 6'5 arab from a foreign country, because they wont let us"... considering his area of hiding happens to be right on the afghan border i dont think it is all that "impossible" almost laughable if it wasnt so sad.
and considering this administartions ithcy trigger finger and unilateral approach to "national security" i think we could force pakistans cooperation if we really wanted to.
by who? certainly not the media? when have they ever said what i am saying? please, they would be in for a shitstorm of criticism.
there is a very small minority who even considers this in the national media, or even the independant media
I know its laughable right.
again this is just your opinion. opinions are like assholes, we all have one.
if we always use the approach you suggest then why didnt we invade North Korea. I mean, those fuckers actually tested a nuke.
good question...I wonder about that, too...
I did not read through the entire thread, yet, but I'm sure there a few excuses de jour...
excuses?? is that the same as legitimate reasons?
you tell me...
all I know is "wanted dead or alive" was uttered by our great leader...and, well you know the story..
perhaps there are "legitimate reasons" that bin laden has not been found...perhaps there aren't...but at the end of the day....the boggieman is still out there....
and please don't give me the "we can't go after him because Pakistan won't let us"....puuuleazzz....when did this administration give a fuck what another country says, does, or wants....(other that Israel)....?