scientist who believes in God

THE LOOK

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html

angelica

THE LOOK wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html

I saw a scientist giving a lecture once and he stated the results of a poll taken among scientists. 40% polled believed in God.

Ahnimus

The most recent numbers I've heard is 15% .

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

The most recent numbers I've heard is 15% .

Obviously different results on different polls.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Obviously different results on different polls.

Yea, Sam Hariss suggests we need to study these scientists who believe in God.

mca47

Ahnimus wrote:

The most recent numbers I've heard is 15% .

In getting my Biology/Biochemistry degree and now working in cancer research...I honestly tell you that among my colleagues, coworkers, ex professors, etc. The number is MUCH higher then that. I would say it has to be closer to 50-60%.

onelongsong

angelica wrote:

I saw a scientist giving a lecture once and he stated the results of a poll taken among scientists. 40% polled believed in God.

i haven't known a scientist who doesn't believe in God. it's not a regular topic but sometimes it does come up in passing. things like: "i can't sunday because i'm in church" and comments like that.

Cosmo

I believe in God.
...
Just not the one the Bible describes. He seemed like kind of a dick at times.

Ahnimus

I should clarify that 15% is a "personal God" as described in the Bible, a much larger percentage believe in Einstein or Spinoza's God, which is pretty much like no God. Or God=Universe, but does absolutely nothing on a personal level.

know1

angelica wrote:

Obviously different results on different polls.

Were those scientific polls?

(I would think the majority of scientists believe in God)

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

I should clarify that 15% is a "personal God" as described in the Bible, a much larger percentage believe in Einstein or Spinoza's God, which is pretty much like no God. Or God=Universe, but does absolutely nothing on a personal level.

Okay, because even I don't believe in the God of the bible. Well, I do, but minus all the human good/bad traits humans have projected upon "him".

Ahnimus

know1 wrote:

Were those scientific polls?

(I would think the majority of scientists believe in God)

Is that because you believe in God?

The vast majority of scientists do not believe in the biblical God.

angelica

know1 wrote:

Were those scientific polls?

(I would think the majority of scientists believe in God)

The scientist who spoke of it was one of the people polled. But who knows!

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

I should clarify that 15% is a "personal God" as described in the Bible, a much larger percentage believe in Einstein or Spinoza's God, which is pretty much like no God. Or God=Universe, but does absolutely nothing on a personal level.

is that not god? that's the kind of god i believe in...

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

Is that because you believe in God?

The vast majority of scientists do not believe in the biblical God.

so? the vast majority of the world doesn't believe in the biblical god. im pretty sure less than 50% of the world is christian. you're pretty narrow-minded and ethnocentric on the whole god thing. you seem to think god and christianity are interchangeable.

lucylespian

angelica wrote:

Okay, because even I don't believe in the God of the bible. Well, I do, but minus all the human good/bad traits humans have projected upon "him".

What other traits does he really have ?? All that good cop/bad cop stuff he does, judgement, etc etc, all human traits, nothing really new as the whole pantheon goes, just crazy human shit justified by godhood.

Scubascott

soulsinging wrote:

is that not god? that's the kind of god i believe in...

I think its a pretty different concept of God. I don't think its really comparable to the Jewish/Christian/Muslim idea of God. Still, I guess its not atheism, so it still counts as religious belief. Its just a matter of interpretation.

soulsinging

Scubascott wrote:

I think its a pretty different concept of God. I don't think its really comparable to the Jewish/Christian/Muslim idea of God. Still, I guess its not atheism, so it still counts as religious belief. Its just a matter of interpretation.

i was referring more to the fact that any time he goes off on an anti-god tirade, it's couched in christian theology. there are a LOT of conceptions of god that are vastly different from the christian one. but he seems incapable of believing that someone can believe in god without being a bible thumping evangelical.

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

so? the vast majority of the world doesn't believe in the biblical god. im pretty sure less than 50% of the world is christian. you're pretty narrow-minded and ethnocentric on the whole god thing. you seem to think god and christianity are interchangeable.

God, Jehova, Yeweh, the origin of God-like entities would be the epic of Gilgamesh in ancient Mesapotamia. Followed by Christianity. All of which depict a personal God, and here in lies the origin of the term God.

If God is no greater than the universe, then the term becomes the universe. There is not justification for stating that God is the universe and the universe alone, because the two words have separate connotations.

I believe in the universe and all it's wonder. I stand in awe at the light of the moon at night. I do not believe in God, I do not worship the almighty creator of all things, my universe is not beyond the laws of nature, it is nature.

lucylespian

soulsinging wrote:

i was referring more to the fact that any time he goes off on an anti-god tirade, it's couched in christian theology. there are a LOT of conceptions of god that are vastly different from the christian one. but he seems incapable of believing that someone can believe in god without being a bible thumping evangelical.

That's pretty fair though, I do the same thing. I couch my arguments in terms of Christain theology becasue that is the dominant theme in God worship, or atetndidng to God. It is certainly the dominant theme in modern conservative thought that threatens teh freedom of thought and action of athiests.
I also do it becasue it is more amusing than a blank denial of "God does not exist". A more complex argument requires that I allow for the possibility, in order to discuss why that possibility is not realised, thus bringing me to introduce elelments of Christian theology. When I go to Old Testmanet stuf, people just go, that old testament, we don't sacrifice our children, put out eyes, or rape our brothers widows anymore.

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

God, Jehova, Yeweh, the origin of God-like entities would be the epic of Gilgamesh in ancient Mesapotamia. Followed by Christianity. All of which depict a personal God, and here in lies the origin of the term God.

If God is no greater than the universe, then the term becomes the universe. There is not justification for stating that God is the universe and the universe alone, because the two words have separate connotations.

I believe in the universe and all it's wonder. I stand in awe at the light of the moon at night. I do not believe in God, I do not worship the almighty creator of all things, my universe is not beyond the laws of nature, it is nature.

that doesn't answer my question at all. you're just saying that's not a legit concept of god becos you dont want to believe in god. do you refuse to even acknowledge that many people believe and worship a god that has nothing to do with the personal christian deity? buddhism and hinduism are almost animistic religions. so is wicca. form there it's a very small leap to god as the universe. regardless of the origin of the term god, it has expanded well beyond the constraints of judeo-christian deity.

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

that doesn't answer my question at all. you're just saying that's not a legit concept of god becos you dont want to believe in god. do you refuse to even acknowledge that many people believe and worship a god that has nothing to do with the personal christian deity? buddhism and hinduism are almost animistic religions. so is wicca. form there it's a very small leap to god as the universe. regardless of the origin of the term god, it has expanded well beyond the constraints of judeo-christian deity.

There is not point in calling the Universe God. It's only purpose is to exagerate the universe.

soulsinging

lucylespian wrote:

That's pretty fair though, I do the same thing. I couch my arguments in terms of Christain theology becasue that is the dominant theme in God worship, or atetndidng to God. It is certainly the dominant theme in modern conservative thought that threatens teh freedom of thought and action of athiests.
I also do it becasue it is more amusing than a blank denial of "God does not exist". A more complex argument requires that I allow for the possibility, in order to discuss why that possibility is not realised, thus bringing me to introduce elelments of Christian theology. When I go to Old Testmanet stuf, people just go, that old testament, we don't sacrifice our children, put out eyes, or rape our brothers widows anymore.

but you're picking an easy target. christian theology is not the dominant theme in god worship. there are hundreds of religions and christianity is only one and a declining one at that. yes, they are the most politically active in the west, but disproving christianity does not prove atheism. just as pointing out the holes in evolutionary theory does nor prove creationism. you cannot support your view with negative proof. why not try arguing against buddhist thought, or wicca, or taoism?

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

There is not point in calling the Universe God. It's only purpose is to exagerate the universe.

i see. i dont know what else i expected from you.

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

but you're picking an easy target. christian theology is not the dominant theme in god worship. there are hundreds of religions and christianity is only one and a declining one at that. yes, they are the most politically active in the west, but disproving christianity does not prove atheism. just as pointing out the holes in evolutionary theory does nor prove creationism. you cannot support your view with negative proof. why not try arguing against buddhist thought, or wicca, or taoism?

umm, they are atheists?

You are an atheist too, but you make up some God that does nothing to avoid being an atheist. I don't get it man.

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

umm, they are atheists?

You are an atheist too, but you make up some God that does nothing to avoid being an atheist. I don't get it man.

buddhists, hindus, and wiccans are atheists?

i did not make up any god and im not avoiding being an atheist. i was for a long time. eventually, it stopped making any sense to me... it didn't fit what i saw in the world or my own experience. my only opposition to atheism is the same as my opposition to christianity: a claim to absolute knowledge of the unknowable.

lucylespian

soulsinging wrote:

but you're picking an easy target. christian theology is not the dominant theme in god worship. there are hundreds of religions and christianity is only one and a declining one at that. yes, they are the most politically active in the west, but disproving christianity does not prove atheism. just as pointing out the holes in evolutionary theory does nor prove creationism. you cannot support your view with negative proof. why not try arguing against buddhist thought, or wicca, or taoism?

Cos they are not on this board presenting their beliefs, mostly.
The political activity is something that draws fire from me. Liberalism is self-threatening by definition, becasue it allows the growth of elelments which would destroy it, but conservatism crushes them. I'm just doing a bit of liberalism standing up for itself, and protecting it's cave, so to speak.
Also I don't know as much about the other religions you mentioned, so to comment about them is worse than ignorance. Though I am an athiest, I have reasonable knowledge of christain theology.

Ahnimus

lucylespian wrote:

Cos they are not on this board presenting their beliefs, mostly.
The political activity is something that draws fire from me. Lebealism is self-threatening by definition, becasue it allows the growth of elelments which would destroy it, but conservatism crushes them. I'm just doing a bit of liberalism standing up for itself, and protecting it's cave, so to speak.
Also I don't know as much about them, so to comment about them is worse than ignorance. Though I am an athiest, I have reasonable knowledge of christain theology.

Buddhists are also atheists.

lucylespian

soulsinging wrote:

buddhists, hindus, and wiccans are atheists?

i did not make up any god and im not avoiding being an atheist. i was for a long time. eventually, it stopped making any sense to me... it didn't fit what i saw in the world or my own experience. my only opposition to atheism is the same as my opposition to christianity: a claim to absolute knowledge of the unknowable.

Aw man, who evere said we had absolute knowledge of anything ?? Not me , that's for sure. I only yearn for relative knowledge, but even that is ebnough to satisfy me that God has as much chance of existence as the Easter Bunny.

My refence point is teh Hubble photos of the Pillars of Creation. Massive nebulae of cosmic dust light years in dimension where you can see stars being born. The possibility of a power vast enough to create that with a thought and a wave of the hand is small enough to be approaching 1/infinnity.

angelica

lucylespian wrote:

What other traits does he really have ?? All that good cop/bad cop stuff he does, judgement, etc etc, all human traits, nothing really new as the whole pantheon goes, just crazy human shit justified by godhood.

What I was saying is that I would believe in Einstein's or Spinoza's God, except for the fact that "he" personalized himself in my experience and nudged me out of my usual programming. Along the way, this energy, has intelligently shown me numerous things. So I refer to the biblical God in the sense of being that personalized God that teaches mystical types. My understandings are based on my experiences with it. In my experience it Is about beautiful, mind-boggling Ideals, and not about the dyfunctioning shallow human traits It is usually ascribed such as anger, jealousy, etc.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

What I was saying is that I would believe in Einstein's or Spinoza's God, except for the fact that "he" personalized himself in my experience and nudged me out of my usual programming. Along the way, this energy, has intelligently shown me numerous things. So I refer to the biblical God in the sense of being that personalized God that teaches mystical types. My understandings are based on my experiences with it. In my experience it Is about beautiful, mind-boggling Ideals, and not about the dyfunctioning shallow human traits It is usually ascribed such as anger, jealousy, etc.

IMO, the biblical God actually permeates anger, jealousy, pride, envy and so on.

The Bible teaches two contradictory concepts, free-will and determinism (God's Plan). The emphasis is placed on free-will, that one has the ultimate choice to choose the path of Good or Evil and the Bible describes what these paths are. The intentions of this may be good on an individual basis, it gives one incentives to make good choices. However, in a social context this paradigm is detrimental. Perhaps something not considered at the time of it's creation.