The Double Standard

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Comments

  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    This is a very good post because it gets to the reason behind the current state of polarization. When Ahmadinejad and the Hezbos say that peace can be accomplished once the state of Israel is gone, I believe them. I believe that the only way for Israel's enemy to not be their enemy, is to go away. I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe leaders of other nations when they actually say things, but it's so easy to construct elaborate conspiracies attributed to the leaders of this nation. This is the focal point of our disagreement. Either you believe that extremist groups favor jewish extermination or you don't. Any other discussions we can have are pointless since they are dependent on how we view the rights of Israel to exist.


    Do you believe Palestine has the right to exist? Do you believe Israel believes this? How can you say you think they should exist while still occupying and continuing to invade more and more of their homeland? If Israel had invaded your hometown and bulldozed your home, ran your family out....how would you feel about them? This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Do you believe Palestine has the right to exist? Do you believe Israel believes this? How can you say you think they should exist while still occupying and continuing to invade more and more of their homeland? If Israel had invaded your hometown and bulldozed your home, ran your family out....how would you feel about them? This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.

    I absolutely believe that Palestine has a right to exist and would love to see it happen, I really would!

    All I'm saying is that the Hezbos and the Iranian "President" SAY that Israel does not have the right to exist. I'm just taking them at their word. I don't see the same vitriol coming from Israeli leaders. In fact, when they leave territories (which they occupied because of the threat against their sovereignty) they are attacked. Again, I do support a Palestinian state, I do not think that Hezbollah or Iran does.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • blueandwhite
    blueandwhite Posts: 662
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.

    It seems to me, that both sides hate each other with such ferocity; with such vigor that we will not see such a solution in our lifetimes. Even on these boards, there are many members who are barely able to contain their biggotry and hatred. They passionately argue against one side, calling on often obscure or biased reports to support their claims. At the same time, they conveniently ignore any autrocities committed by the side they support, chalking any negative comments up to spin, or media bias.

    And with casualties continuing to mount, there is little hope for another generation of Israeli or Palestinian people. The sad thing is, even FOX News is more objective than many of those who suffer through this conflict (and that is quite disturbing :( ). Dealing with media spin-doctoring is dizzying enough. It only gets worse on message boards like this one, where many make it their personal quest to sway the opinions of others.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I absolutely believe that Palestine has a right to exist and would love to see it happen, I really would!

    All I'm saying is that the Hezbos and the Iranian "President" SAY that Israel does not have the right to exist. I'm just taking them at their word. I don't see the same vitriol coming from Israeli leaders. In fact, when they leave territories (which they occupied because of the threat against their sovereignty) they are attacked. Again, I do support a Palestinian state, I do not think that Hezbollah or Iran does.


    So you are going to let the views of a few mean rationalization of the death of so many? I think it only builds support for their ideology and causes Arabs to look to them for some kind of security. It keeps the cycle going.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    So you are going to let the views of a few mean rationalization of the death of so many? I think it only builds support for their ideology and causes Arabs to look to them for some kind of security. It keeps the cycle going.

    In my opinion, the views of these few people are to be taken seriously. I also think that the actions of other governments like Iran, Syria, AND ESPECIALLY Lebanon should be held to the same scrutiny that the Republican Party is. These are all sovereign nations and are making decisions. It's only responsible to view these governments with the same level of cynisism that we look at our own government.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    In my opinion, the views of these few people are to be taken seriously. I also think that the actions of other governments like Iran, Syria, AND ESPECIALLY Lebanon should be held to the same scrutiny that the Republican Party is. These are all sovereign nations and are making decisions. It's only responsible to view these governments with the same level of cynisism that we look at our own government.

    But we don't bomb the shit out Republican's homes and whatnot.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jsand
    jsand Posts: 646
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Do you believe Palestine has the right to exist? Do you believe Israel believes this? How can you say you think they should exist while still occupying and continuing to invade more and more of their homeland? If Israel had invaded your hometown and bulldozed your home, ran your family out....how would you feel about them? This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.

    You make it sound as if Israel invades and bulldozes homes for no reason. Perhaps Israel does so because of the hundreds of suicide bombings, shootings and rocket attacks on its civilians. There is no "cycle" here. Israel left Gaza and what did it get in return? Hamas and other terrorist thugs firing Qassam rockets into Israeli territory. On top of that, Israelis left greenhouses and other agricultural equipment for the Palestinians to use, so that they could get an economy going. What did the Palestinians do with that equuipment? They set fire to it, looted and destroyed it. They're not ready for a state yet, since a Palestinian state at this point in time would merely serve as a launching ground for attacks on Israel.
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    farfromglorified wrote:
    A moral justification based on scale always collapses logically. For example, you cannot say killing is wrong but then suggest that killing 1 is good and killing 1000 is bad -- you've setup a contradiction. Invariably you end up with an "ends justify the means" argument and you'll be much closer to your enemy than you would ever care to admit.

    You just poked holes in your own argument. You are essentially saying that
    killing is wrong, regardless the circumstances.

    Therefore, the same amount of scrutiny should be applied to Hezbollah as Isreal, regardless the circumstances.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    NCfan wrote:
    You just poked holes in your own argument. You are essentially saying that
    killing is wrong, regardless the circumstances.

    Therefore, the same amount of scrutiny should be applied to Hezbollah as Isreal, regardless the circumstances.

    Since I completely agree with your latter statement, I'm not "poking holes in my own argument." Where have I given the impression that Hezbollah does not deserve the same amount of scrutiny as Israel?
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Since I completely agree with your latter statement, I'm not "poking holes in my own argument." Where have I given the impression that Hezbollah does not deserve the same amount of scrutiny as Israel?

    Oops, sorry about that... I didn' t read the whole thread!

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