Absolutely true. Also, Gaza and the West Bank do not qualify as "occupied territory" within the meaning of the Geneva Convention since those territories were not under the legitimate sovereignty of any state.
Correct. The Golan Heights, however, would meet the standard which means Sheeba Farms also meets that standard. Both need to be sold back to their sovereign nations.
Israel has already tried those alternative ways - negotiation, "land for peace," etc. etc. What did they get in return? Massive onslaughts of terror, because Palestinian terror organizations viewed it as capitulation; a sign of weakness.
You beseige a country based on a minority of people...unless you believe the majority of Muslims are fund-a-nuts.....which I believe they are not...the key is that the people need a rallying cry from someone else other than these brains that run the real terror outfits....the terror group looks at as weakness...but good faith negotations and working hand-in-hand with the nation's goverment (which does not mean terrorist group) to help each other together will show good faith between the two respected governments (major concesions which I have spoken candidly about on this fourm to moderate fanfare)...
I admit that terrorism will not drop away like that...BUT you will stop its growth and that is what it is going to take..further violence against a nation will only lead to expansion of that disease its inevitable (the facts are all over the place...this is the losing strategy for real freedom and the winning strategy for terrorists)....acts of good faith and will between neighbouring governments will build the common mans trust...TO THE POINT...that when some fund-a-nut does something...the people then can view them as they really are...scumbags that need to be removed...to do this will involve getting the trust from the common man....further violence just feeds the disease.....
You can call what I propose as absurd...however to the extent of good will as I propose has never been attempted because of deep rooted sentiment....Israel & The USA need to stop going directly to the terrorists and win the minds of the common man who outnumber the nuts and they will take care of the rest...good will will build trust...with trust and experience of real freedom will the common (majority) man take down the minority nuts that choose to take away his freedom....this would require patience and time....but the hate rhetoric needs to stop....and that is the beginning point....but the continuation of violence will only allow the leaders of the fund-a-nuts (who are by no mean fools as they know how to convince the "lost") to recruit more and more...."look what Israel did to your family"...blah blah and that lying rhetoric.....without the blood of their own civilians the terrorists have no way to gain members...but when a foreign nation spills the blood of the civilians its an easy invitation for more nuts to join the mislead ranks of terrorism.....we need to start showing these people what freedom really is b/c our examples are disgusting at best.....
The Geneva Convention does not say you have to build schools and hospitals. Furthermore it doesn't really apply when you are no longer occupying a territory.
...
No... but that does not mean you shouldn't.
Also, The Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank were captured and occupied from Syria, Egypt and Jordan, respectively, in 1967 during the Six Day War... a military action. Until Gaza was recently turned back, all remained occupied territories, regardless of the amount of time passed. Israeli security forces still occupy the West Bank and Golan Heights because of the number of Israeli citizens living there. They are not a part of Israel simply because Israel has squatted on that land since 1967. And about the only ones who view these regions and part is Israel... is Israel.
And just because you do not recognize or define it as 'occupied territory'... does that mean it is yours to do with... however you please?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
This kind of stuff isn't relevant to "foreign policy" but rather the person you're addressing:
"I am also sick of saying the same points over and over again"
No big deal though. I though it was a great post.
Oh I was referring to his comment of havign to repeat his side of the story...by saying I am also sick of the same thing...I meant no offense...but thanks for the positive vibe for my post.....
...
No... but that does not mean you shouldn't. Also, The Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank were captured and occupied from Syria, Egypt and Jordan, respectively, in 1967 during the Six Day War... a military action. Until Gaza was recently turned back, all remained occupied territories, regardless of the amount of time passed. Israeli security forces still occupy the West Bank and Golan Heights. They are not a part of Israel simply because Israel has squatted on that land since 1967.
And just because you do not recognize or define it as 'occupied territory'... does that mean it is yours to do with... however you please?
Certainly they do not have the right to "do what they please" with it. But that doesn't tie them to some vague set of obligations.
Certainly they do not have the right to "do what they please" with it. But that doesn't tie them to some vague set of obligations.
...
I know, it's not an obligation... although, Security is.
Caring for the people who live there (and are not Israeli citizens) is a humanitarian suggestion in order to get the people on your side. Apparently, 40 years of 'collateral' deaths and casualties has not worked out so good. Show people that you care for them, and the likelihood that what they see from you will outweigh the fanatic's claims that you are Satan.
If you continue to choose to go the killing route... you're going to have to kill them all... and you will lose a heck of alot of your own along the way. War is easy... peace is tough.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I know, it's not an obligation... although, Security is.
Caring for the people who live there (and are not Israeli citizens) is a humanitarian suggestion in order to get the people on your side. Apparently, 40 years of 'collateral' deaths and casualties has not worked out so good. Show people that you care for them, and the likelihood that what they see from you will outweigh the fanatic's claims that you are Satan.
If you continue to choose to go the killing route... you're going to have to kill them all... and you will lose a heck of alot of your own along the way. War is easy... peace is tough.
While I agree with you intent here, your words have some issues. You seem to be of the mind that building schools or hospitals for Palestinians will somehow equate to security. It won't. Neither will war, of course -- I agree with you there.
While I agree with you intent here, your words have some issues. You seem to be of the mind that building schools or hospitals for Palestinians will somehow equate to security. It won't. Neither will war, of course -- I agree with you there.
Will knocking down homes and driving out the inhabitants equate to security?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Hezbollah intentionally targets civillians and population centers with their rocket attacks.
Israel has the ability to flatten all of southern Lebanon, literally! Yet they try to limit civillian casualties with the use of strict rules of warefare and precision bombs. They fight an enemy who hides among civillians and uses them as sheilds against attacks.
The world applies a double standard to the two groups. Do people not see this double standard? Can somebody explain this to me?
This thing about how the hez hides among civilians is pretty funny, if it were true I don't see how the majority of lebanon would be supporting them.
Also, israel invaded another country, even if it were true that they don't target innocents, does that make their invasion just? How about the occupation of palestine? You seem to be trying to make Israel look like a bunch of care bears.
While I agree with you intent here, your words have some issues. You seem to be of the mind that building schools or hospitals for Palestinians will somehow equate to security. It won't. Neither will war, of course -- I agree with you there.
...
Okay... clarification.
Peace of mind... goes along with the term, 'security'.
Building homes, hospitals, schools, churches (mosques) is building communities. And you're right... you don't need a Geneva Convention to do this. But, I'm guessing... someone that views you as a friend is less likely to want to kill you than someone who holds you responsible for the death (albeit, unintentional death) of his father.
You get where I'm coming from, right? I know it is unrealistic and idealist in this fucked up region, run by fucked up men on both fucked up sides. But, it's just that all of their fucked up shit is... well, it makes me sick and almost to the point where I don't care if they fight til they're all dead. It's to the point that both Israel and the Arabs deserve each other's shit.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
This thing about how the hez hides among civilians is pretty funny, if it were true I don't see how the majority of lebanon would be supporting them.
The enemy of my enemy.... it's a temporary thing, this support for Hez, in my opinion, esp when you factor in that Hez has said they will settle scores with those who spoke out against them. they said that. We'll see where opinion is down the road....
It is funny though. They build schools, then say "oh, don't go in the basement, that's ours." Real gut-buster. Literally....
It's that whole "if it where true" thing ... I've heard folks in lebabon say as much (that it's true), I've seen films of rockets being launched from next to buildings that were then destroyed. And I've read that Hez has the copies of passports of all journalists allowed into the area, i.e. journalist can't exactly ask Hez if they're doing it, and if they did..... So uh, how exactly can we definitely prove the whole "civilian human shield" concept for you and Ahnimus?
What do you call a Nissan Pickup truck with a trailer launcher driving into a druze hood, firing off the rockets and skeedadling? Ok so they didn't wait around to actually "hide...."
Um, ok, how about not actually wearing uniforms or combatant identification stuff? Guerilla warfare? Well yes, that's a tactic -- "hide" amoung civilians by dressing just like them, neh?
A small side riff on the double standard: Palastinians and Lebanese elect folks western civilization ain't exactly fond of and we get the riot act that "Hey, they had an election, why can't we recognize their intent." Well it's just that, we do recognize their intent to elect ghastly folks and now they pay the price. The double standard? Folks who say we're paying the price for the govt. we've elected, neh? So uh, we have to live with the world hating us for who we've elected? Guess what....
If the end result is 'making up' then it sounds a lot better than the current so called 'solution' of bombing and killing to get people to stop hating you. You are only multiplying your problems. You don't put fire out by pouring gasoline on it. The only way to get rid of an enemy for him to cease to want to be your enemy.
This is a very good post because it gets to the reason behind the current state of polarization. When Ahmadinejad and the Hezbos say that peace can be accomplished once the state of Israel is gone, I believe them. I believe that the only way for Israel's enemy to not be their enemy, is to go away. I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe leaders of other nations when they actually say things, but it's so easy to construct elaborate conspiracies attributed to the leaders of this nation. This is the focal point of our disagreement. Either you believe that extremist groups favor jewish extermination or you don't. Any other discussions we can have are pointless since they are dependent on how we view the rights of Israel to exist.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
This is a very good post because it gets to the reason behind the current state of polarization. When Ahmadinejad and the Hezbos say that peace can be accomplished once the state of Israel is gone, I believe them. I believe that the only way for Israel's enemy to not be their enemy, is to go away. I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe leaders of other nations when they actually say things, but it's so easy to construct elaborate conspiracies attributed to the leaders of this nation. This is the focal point of our disagreement. Either you believe that extremist groups favor jewish extermination or you don't. Any other discussions we can have are pointless since they are dependent on how we view the rights of Israel to exist.
Do you believe Palestine has the right to exist? Do you believe Israel believes this? How can you say you think they should exist while still occupying and continuing to invade more and more of their homeland? If Israel had invaded your hometown and bulldozed your home, ran your family out....how would you feel about them? This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Do you believe Palestine has the right to exist? Do you believe Israel believes this? How can you say you think they should exist while still occupying and continuing to invade more and more of their homeland? If Israel had invaded your hometown and bulldozed your home, ran your family out....how would you feel about them? This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.
I absolutely believe that Palestine has a right to exist and would love to see it happen, I really would!
All I'm saying is that the Hezbos and the Iranian "President" SAY that Israel does not have the right to exist. I'm just taking them at their word. I don't see the same vitriol coming from Israeli leaders. In fact, when they leave territories (which they occupied because of the threat against their sovereignty) they are attacked. Again, I do support a Palestinian state, I do not think that Hezbollah or Iran does.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.
It seems to me, that both sides hate each other with such ferocity; with such vigor that we will not see such a solution in our lifetimes. Even on these boards, there are many members who are barely able to contain their biggotry and hatred. They passionately argue against one side, calling on often obscure or biased reports to support their claims. At the same time, they conveniently ignore any autrocities committed by the side they support, chalking any negative comments up to spin, or media bias.
And with casualties continuing to mount, there is little hope for another generation of Israeli or Palestinian people. The sad thing is, even FOX News is more objective than many of those who suffer through this conflict (and that is quite disturbing :( ). Dealing with media spin-doctoring is dizzying enough. It only gets worse on message boards like this one, where many make it their personal quest to sway the opinions of others.
I absolutely believe that Palestine has a right to exist and would love to see it happen, I really would!
All I'm saying is that the Hezbos and the Iranian "President" SAY that Israel does not have the right to exist. I'm just taking them at their word. I don't see the same vitriol coming from Israeli leaders. In fact, when they leave territories (which they occupied because of the threat against their sovereignty) they are attacked. Again, I do support a Palestinian state, I do not think that Hezbollah or Iran does.
So you are going to let the views of a few mean rationalization of the death of so many? I think it only builds support for their ideology and causes Arabs to look to them for some kind of security. It keeps the cycle going.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So you are going to let the views of a few mean rationalization of the death of so many? I think it only builds support for their ideology and causes Arabs to look to them for some kind of security. It keeps the cycle going.
In my opinion, the views of these few people are to be taken seriously. I also think that the actions of other governments like Iran, Syria, AND ESPECIALLY Lebanon should be held to the same scrutiny that the Republican Party is. These are all sovereign nations and are making decisions. It's only responsible to view these governments with the same level of cynisism that we look at our own government.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
In my opinion, the views of these few people are to be taken seriously. I also think that the actions of other governments like Iran, Syria, AND ESPECIALLY Lebanon should be held to the same scrutiny that the Republican Party is. These are all sovereign nations and are making decisions. It's only responsible to view these governments with the same level of cynisism that we look at our own government.
But we don't bomb the shit out Republican's homes and whatnot.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Do you believe Palestine has the right to exist? Do you believe Israel believes this? How can you say you think they should exist while still occupying and continuing to invade more and more of their homeland? If Israel had invaded your hometown and bulldozed your home, ran your family out....how would you feel about them? This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.
You make it sound as if Israel invades and bulldozes homes for no reason. Perhaps Israel does so because of the hundreds of suicide bombings, shootings and rocket attacks on its civilians. There is no "cycle" here. Israel left Gaza and what did it get in return? Hamas and other terrorist thugs firing Qassam rockets into Israeli territory. On top of that, Israelis left greenhouses and other agricultural equipment for the Palestinians to use, so that they could get an economy going. What did the Palestinians do with that equuipment? They set fire to it, looted and destroyed it. They're not ready for a state yet, since a Palestinian state at this point in time would merely serve as a launching ground for attacks on Israel.
A moral justification based on scale always collapses logically. For example, you cannot say killing is wrong but then suggest that killing 1 is good and killing 1000 is bad -- you've setup a contradiction. Invariably you end up with an "ends justify the means" argument and you'll be much closer to your enemy than you would ever care to admit.
You just poked holes in your own argument. You are essentially saying that
killing is wrong, regardless the circumstances.
Therefore, the same amount of scrutiny should be applied to Hezbollah as Isreal, regardless the circumstances.
You just poked holes in your own argument. You are essentially saying that
killing is wrong, regardless the circumstances.
Therefore, the same amount of scrutiny should be applied to Hezbollah as Isreal, regardless the circumstances.
Since I completely agree with your latter statement, I'm not "poking holes in my own argument." Where have I given the impression that Hezbollah does not deserve the same amount of scrutiny as Israel?
Since I completely agree with your latter statement, I'm not "poking holes in my own argument." Where have I given the impression that Hezbollah does not deserve the same amount of scrutiny as Israel?
Oops, sorry about that... I didn' t read the whole thread!
Comments
Correct. The Golan Heights, however, would meet the standard which means Sheeba Farms also meets that standard. Both need to be sold back to their sovereign nations.
Sorry I don't answer you instantaneously. I've been blowing off responses to your "arguments" because they are absurd, and infantile.
This kind of stuff isn't relevant to "foreign policy" but rather the person you're addressing:
"I am also sick of saying the same points over and over again"
No big deal though. I though it was a great post.
You beseige a country based on a minority of people...unless you believe the majority of Muslims are fund-a-nuts.....which I believe they are not...the key is that the people need a rallying cry from someone else other than these brains that run the real terror outfits....the terror group looks at as weakness...but good faith negotations and working hand-in-hand with the nation's goverment (which does not mean terrorist group) to help each other together will show good faith between the two respected governments (major concesions which I have spoken candidly about on this fourm to moderate fanfare)...
I admit that terrorism will not drop away like that...BUT you will stop its growth and that is what it is going to take..further violence against a nation will only lead to expansion of that disease its inevitable (the facts are all over the place...this is the losing strategy for real freedom and the winning strategy for terrorists)....acts of good faith and will between neighbouring governments will build the common mans trust...TO THE POINT...that when some fund-a-nut does something...the people then can view them as they really are...scumbags that need to be removed...to do this will involve getting the trust from the common man....further violence just feeds the disease.....
You can call what I propose as absurd...however to the extent of good will as I propose has never been attempted because of deep rooted sentiment....Israel & The USA need to stop going directly to the terrorists and win the minds of the common man who outnumber the nuts and they will take care of the rest...good will will build trust...with trust and experience of real freedom will the common (majority) man take down the minority nuts that choose to take away his freedom....this would require patience and time....but the hate rhetoric needs to stop....and that is the beginning point....but the continuation of violence will only allow the leaders of the fund-a-nuts (who are by no mean fools as they know how to convince the "lost") to recruit more and more...."look what Israel did to your family"...blah blah and that lying rhetoric.....without the blood of their own civilians the terrorists have no way to gain members...but when a foreign nation spills the blood of the civilians its an easy invitation for more nuts to join the mislead ranks of terrorism.....we need to start showing these people what freedom really is b/c our examples are disgusting at best.....
No... but that does not mean you shouldn't.
Also, The Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank were captured and occupied from Syria, Egypt and Jordan, respectively, in 1967 during the Six Day War... a military action. Until Gaza was recently turned back, all remained occupied territories, regardless of the amount of time passed. Israeli security forces still occupy the West Bank and Golan Heights because of the number of Israeli citizens living there. They are not a part of Israel simply because Israel has squatted on that land since 1967. And about the only ones who view these regions and part is Israel... is Israel.
And just because you do not recognize or define it as 'occupied territory'... does that mean it is yours to do with... however you please?
Hail, Hail!!!
Oh I was referring to his comment of havign to repeat his side of the story...by saying I am also sick of the same thing...I meant no offense...but thanks for the positive vibe for my post.....
Certainly they do not have the right to "do what they please" with it. But that doesn't tie them to some vague set of obligations.
I know, it's not an obligation... although, Security is.
Caring for the people who live there (and are not Israeli citizens) is a humanitarian suggestion in order to get the people on your side. Apparently, 40 years of 'collateral' deaths and casualties has not worked out so good. Show people that you care for them, and the likelihood that what they see from you will outweigh the fanatic's claims that you are Satan.
If you continue to choose to go the killing route... you're going to have to kill them all... and you will lose a heck of alot of your own along the way. War is easy... peace is tough.
Hail, Hail!!!
While I agree with you intent here, your words have some issues. You seem to be of the mind that building schools or hospitals for Palestinians will somehow equate to security. It won't. Neither will war, of course -- I agree with you there.
Will knocking down homes and driving out the inhabitants equate to security?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
This thing about how the hez hides among civilians is pretty funny, if it were true I don't see how the majority of lebanon would be supporting them.
Also, israel invaded another country, even if it were true that they don't target innocents, does that make their invasion just? How about the occupation of palestine? You seem to be trying to make Israel look like a bunch of care bears.
Okay... clarification.
Peace of mind... goes along with the term, 'security'.
Building homes, hospitals, schools, churches (mosques) is building communities. And you're right... you don't need a Geneva Convention to do this. But, I'm guessing... someone that views you as a friend is less likely to want to kill you than someone who holds you responsible for the death (albeit, unintentional death) of his father.
You get where I'm coming from, right? I know it is unrealistic and idealist in this fucked up region, run by fucked up men on both fucked up sides. But, it's just that all of their fucked up shit is... well, it makes me sick and almost to the point where I don't care if they fight til they're all dead. It's to the point that both Israel and the Arabs deserve each other's shit.
Hail, Hail!!!
No. Please stop pretending it's an either/or proposition.
Did I say it was?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yes. Your question in response to my statement implied that Israel has two choices: build or destroy.
There is a third choice.
That's an assumption. I simply meant that Israel's current policy is not going to gain any security.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If that were true you would have just said so, not done so in a response to a statement that in no way advocated Israel's current policy of war.
The enemy of my enemy.... it's a temporary thing, this support for Hez, in my opinion, esp when you factor in that Hez has said they will settle scores with those who spoke out against them. they said that. We'll see where opinion is down the road....
It is funny though. They build schools, then say "oh, don't go in the basement, that's ours." Real gut-buster. Literally....
It's that whole "if it where true" thing ... I've heard folks in lebabon say as much (that it's true), I've seen films of rockets being launched from next to buildings that were then destroyed. And I've read that Hez has the copies of passports of all journalists allowed into the area, i.e. journalist can't exactly ask Hez if they're doing it, and if they did..... So uh, how exactly can we definitely prove the whole "civilian human shield" concept for you and Ahnimus?
What do you call a Nissan Pickup truck with a trailer launcher driving into a druze hood, firing off the rockets and skeedadling? Ok so they didn't wait around to actually "hide...."
Um, ok, how about not actually wearing uniforms or combatant identification stuff? Guerilla warfare? Well yes, that's a tactic -- "hide" amoung civilians by dressing just like them, neh?
A small side riff on the double standard: Palastinians and Lebanese elect folks western civilization ain't exactly fond of and we get the riot act that "Hey, they had an election, why can't we recognize their intent." Well it's just that, we do recognize their intent to elect ghastly folks and now they pay the price. The double standard? Folks who say we're paying the price for the govt. we've elected, neh? So uh, we have to live with the world hating us for who we've elected? Guess what....
But the thread starter was who I hoped to drive the point to.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
This is a very good post because it gets to the reason behind the current state of polarization. When Ahmadinejad and the Hezbos say that peace can be accomplished once the state of Israel is gone, I believe them. I believe that the only way for Israel's enemy to not be their enemy, is to go away. I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe leaders of other nations when they actually say things, but it's so easy to construct elaborate conspiracies attributed to the leaders of this nation. This is the focal point of our disagreement. Either you believe that extremist groups favor jewish extermination or you don't. Any other discussions we can have are pointless since they are dependent on how we view the rights of Israel to exist.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Do you believe Palestine has the right to exist? Do you believe Israel believes this? How can you say you think they should exist while still occupying and continuing to invade more and more of their homeland? If Israel had invaded your hometown and bulldozed your home, ran your family out....how would you feel about them? This cycle has to stop before we can start curing the hate and somehow find a solution of co-existance.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I absolutely believe that Palestine has a right to exist and would love to see it happen, I really would!
All I'm saying is that the Hezbos and the Iranian "President" SAY that Israel does not have the right to exist. I'm just taking them at their word. I don't see the same vitriol coming from Israeli leaders. In fact, when they leave territories (which they occupied because of the threat against their sovereignty) they are attacked. Again, I do support a Palestinian state, I do not think that Hezbollah or Iran does.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
It seems to me, that both sides hate each other with such ferocity; with such vigor that we will not see such a solution in our lifetimes. Even on these boards, there are many members who are barely able to contain their biggotry and hatred. They passionately argue against one side, calling on often obscure or biased reports to support their claims. At the same time, they conveniently ignore any autrocities committed by the side they support, chalking any negative comments up to spin, or media bias.
And with casualties continuing to mount, there is little hope for another generation of Israeli or Palestinian people. The sad thing is, even FOX News is more objective than many of those who suffer through this conflict (and that is quite disturbing :( ). Dealing with media spin-doctoring is dizzying enough. It only gets worse on message boards like this one, where many make it their personal quest to sway the opinions of others.
So you are going to let the views of a few mean rationalization of the death of so many? I think it only builds support for their ideology and causes Arabs to look to them for some kind of security. It keeps the cycle going.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
In my opinion, the views of these few people are to be taken seriously. I also think that the actions of other governments like Iran, Syria, AND ESPECIALLY Lebanon should be held to the same scrutiny that the Republican Party is. These are all sovereign nations and are making decisions. It's only responsible to view these governments with the same level of cynisism that we look at our own government.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
But we don't bomb the shit out Republican's homes and whatnot.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You make it sound as if Israel invades and bulldozes homes for no reason. Perhaps Israel does so because of the hundreds of suicide bombings, shootings and rocket attacks on its civilians. There is no "cycle" here. Israel left Gaza and what did it get in return? Hamas and other terrorist thugs firing Qassam rockets into Israeli territory. On top of that, Israelis left greenhouses and other agricultural equipment for the Palestinians to use, so that they could get an economy going. What did the Palestinians do with that equuipment? They set fire to it, looted and destroyed it. They're not ready for a state yet, since a Palestinian state at this point in time would merely serve as a launching ground for attacks on Israel.
You just poked holes in your own argument. You are essentially saying that
killing is wrong, regardless the circumstances.
Therefore, the same amount of scrutiny should be applied to Hezbollah as Isreal, regardless the circumstances.
Since I completely agree with your latter statement, I'm not "poking holes in my own argument." Where have I given the impression that Hezbollah does not deserve the same amount of scrutiny as Israel?
Oops, sorry about that... I didn' t read the whole thread!