Israel, US, and Abbas want peace...Hamas doesn't

jlew24asu

macgyver06 wrote:

hezbollah still exists jlew24asu

and the kidnapped soldiers still havent been returned either. whats your point

macgyver06

jlew24asu wrote:

and the kidnapped soldiers still havent been returned either. whats your point

my point is what i said...its kinda late for israel to be calling for peace when they know damn well hezbollah is in a country that doesnt have an army because Syria has been orderly removed. but hell... lets let hezbollahs wishes come true... they SUPPOSEDLY kidnap 2 of our soldiers so we (israel) willr ecognize hezbollah now as being Lebanons army and Lebanons backers and supporters.. the citizens of lebanons army...lets give them their power now by attacking and killing beiruts citizens.

probably hezbollahs intention to set forth..

see jlew the thing you fail to realize is right in front of you when you type... information can be found if sought.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

macgyver06 wrote:

ok..than who is that message going to?

Anyone who opposes the will of the great and holy Yahweh!!!

jlew24asu

macgyver06 wrote:

my point is what i said...its kinda late for israel to be calling for peace when they know damn well hezbollah is in a country that doesnt have an army because Syria has been orderly removed. but hell... lets let hezbollahs wishes come true... they SUPPOSEDLY kidnap 2 of our soldiers so we (israel) willr ecognize hezbollah now as being Lebanons army and Lebanons backers and supporters.. the citizens of lebanons army...lets give them their power now by attacking and killing beiruts citizens.

first of all, this thread has nothing to do with lebanon. secondly, why are you saying supposedly? those soldiers are still in hezbolla custody.

the rest of your rant makes no sense whatsoever.

macgyver06 wrote:

see jlew the thing you fail to realize is right in front of you when you type... information can be found if sought.

you have yet to make a point.

macgyver06

MrSmith wrote:

Anyone who opposes the will of the great and holy Yahweh!!!

if thats the message than it was to me... i oppose war actions not in defense

Kel Varnsen

It seems to me that a lot of people, in the world in general, seem to think that Palestine, was an Arab run country and then all of the sudden in 1948, the UN came said they didn't have a country and moved all these Jewish people in.

In reality the land was British prior to WW2 and after that it was decided when Britain didn't want it so the land was split between Jews and Arabs with Jerusalem being owned by neither and an international city. Instead of either taking their portion of the land or negotiating the Palestinians and a bunch of their allies decided to go to war to try and take it all and got their asses kicked. To me after that all deals are off since they clearly chose war over peace. To me if you are given half of something and try to fight for more after that, go ahead, but if you lose be prepared to lose what you have. I really wonder how many Arab leaders are kicking themselves since that deal is probably better than anything they will ever get.

Open

MrSmith wrote:

heh the lesson there would be "dont take israeli soldiers or you will get your shit ruined". 1 for 1 retaliation doesn't work nearly as well to get that message across.

You sound just like the terrorists. Brilliant buddy, brilliant.

jlew24asu

macgyver06 wrote:

they SUPPOSEDLY kidnap 2 of our soldiers so we (israel) willr ecognize hezbollah now as being Lebanons army and Lebanons backers and supporters..

this story was released minutes ago.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071015/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel

NAQOURA, Lebanon - The exchange of a Hezbollah captive and the bodies of two Lebanese fighters for the body of an Israeli civilian is linked to efforts to win freedom of two soldiers captured by Hezbollah a year ago, Israel's government said.

jlew24asu

Kel Varnsen wrote:

It seems to me that a lot of people, in the world in general, seem to think that Palestine, was an Arab run country and then all of the sudden in 1948, the UN came said they didn't have a country and moved all these Jewish people in.

In reality the land was British prior to WW2 and after that it was decided when Britain didn't want it so the land was split between Jews and Arabs with Jerusalem being owned by neither and an international city. Instead of either taking their portion of the land or negotiating the Palestinians and a bunch of their allies decided to go to war to try and take it all and got their asses kicked. To me after that all deals are off since they clearly chose war over peace. To me if you are given half of something and try to fight for more after that, go ahead, but if you lose be prepared to lose what you have. I really wonder how many Arab leaders are kicking themselves since that deal is probably better than anything they will ever get.

I agree with this. good post.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Kel Varnsen wrote:

It seems to me that a lot of people, in the world in general, seem to think that Palestine, was an Arab run country and then all of the sudden in 1948, the UN came said they didn't have a country and moved all these Jewish people in.

In reality the land was British prior to WW2 and after that it was decided when Britain didn't want it so the land was split between Jews and Arabs with Jerusalem being owned by neither and an international city. Instead of either taking their portion of the land or negotiating the Palestinians and a bunch of their allies decided to go to war to try and take it all and got their asses kicked. To me after that all deals are off since they clearly chose war over peace. To me if you are given half of something and try to fight for more after that, go ahead, but if you lose be prepared to lose what you have. I really wonder how many Arab leaders are kicking themselves since that deal is probably better than anything they will ever get.

So you blame the palestinians and the 1 million+ refugees for trying to defend against an occupation on the land they were living on and losing?

They deserve it?

Oh nice...

jlew24asu

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

So you blame the palestinians and the 1 million+ refugees for trying to defend against an occupation on their land they were living on and losing?

They deserve it?

Oh nice...

Israel has a right to exist too.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jlew24asu wrote:

Israel has a right to exist too.

Of course they do.

Shame they didn't (and still don't) have a peaceful (or intelligent) plan in place from the beginning that could actually work in their grand design.

The settlement areas were chosen quite specifically for their advantages as military positions/ highlands, most fertile areas, water access, etc...

They have a rather poor concept of land appropriation and conceptions of boundaries for their new state wouldn't you say?

macgyver06

jlew24asu wrote:

Israel has a right to exist too.

they also have a right to defend their own land...so they claim...which they are going to have to do alone hopefully soon enough.

you cant click the light switch of peace on and off with a below average military...its just not in the cards baby...

jlew24asu

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Of course they do.

Shame they didn't (and still don't) have a peaceful (or intelligent) plan in place from the beginning that could actually work in their grand design.

The settlement areas were chosen quite specifically for their advantages as military positions/ highlands, most fertile areas, water access, etc...

They have a rather poor concept of land appropriation and conceptions of boundaries for their new state wouldn't you say?

yea, I agree. you hear that? I agree. but resorting to violence is not the only answer. that is hamas's MO and that is not going to accomplish anything.

every muslim country in the area has been hostile to Israel.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

Open wrote:

You sound just like the terrorists. Brilliant buddy, brilliant.

You havent said anything resembling brilliant this entire thread. Go away before you get embarrassed by my superior insight again.

I noticed no one bothered to reply to my logically sound argument and history lesson earlier, so I'm just gonna infer that you agree and close out my presence on this topic with a "Thats what I fucking thought" and hope that you better educate yourselves in the future. HAHAAHA eh I'm bored.

Open

MrSmith wrote:

You havent said anything resembling brilliant this entire thread. Go away before you get embarrassed by my superior insight again.

Hahahahaha...this thread is not about me, it's about facts, which you seem to do a good job of avoiding, oh superior one.

mookie9999

jlew24asu wrote:

yea, I agree. you hear that? I agree. but resorting to violence is not the only answer. that is hamas's MO and that is not going to accomplish anything.

every muslim country in the area has been hostile to Israel.

So you agree with Rolands last post yet claim that violence is hama's MO but not Israels? Interesting. As to the talks you are waiting so patiently on, there is quite a big difference between blind optimism and realistic integrity. What makes you think these talks will produce anything different than the past? I too am for peace and reducing the violence asap, but it seems that as long as the US forever has the backs of Israel, why should they (Israel) change, or even consider any sort of reasonable resolution between them and Palestine?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jlew24asu wrote:

yea, I agree. you hear that? I agree. but resorting to violence is not the only answer. that is hamas's MO and that is not going to accomplish anything.

every muslim country in the area has been hostile to Israel.

That's about right. It's pretty much a knee jerk reaction considering it's Britain, the US and Israel, not just Israel they are looking at.

Everyone wants access the the most holiest parts to call as their own.

I'm not sure what they expected the reaction would be when they started building and staking claims by slicing into the heart of the area and displacing people from their homes.

Talk about literally drawing lines in the sand for people to cross.

jlew24asu

mookie9999 wrote:

So you agree with Rolands last post yet claim that violence is hama's MO but not Israels? Interesting.

why is that interesting? Israel made offers in the past only to be answered with suicide bombers and charters calling for their destruction. not to mention 6 wars brought upon them in the past 60 years.

mookie9999 wrote:

As to the talks you are waiting so patiently on, there is quite a big difference between blind optimism and realistic integrity.

whats the difference? I am an optimist. but I'm not blind and I dont think violence is the answer.

mookie9999 wrote:

What makes you think these talks will produce anything different than the past?

maybe then will maybe they wont, but I'd like to see them happen nonetheless. again, look at the alternative. armed resistance. that will not accomplish anything expect more innocent people dying.

mookie9999 wrote:

I too am for peace and reducing the violence asap, but it seems that as long as the US forever has the backs of Israel, why should they (Israel) change, or even consider any sort of reasonable resolution between them and Palestine?

you are for peace but ok with hamas wanting to destroy Israel. is that right? you cant have it both ways

SundaySilence

jlew24asu wrote:

It's really sad to see. they are soo close. Hamas is clearly part of the problem and far from being part of the solution.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hamas' top leaders in Gaza and Syria warned the moderate Palestinian president Friday not to "fall into the trap" of an upcoming U.S.-sponsored peace conference with Israel.

Hamas is clearly part of the problem. But surely concerns of a trap have a legitimate basis. US tax dollars have a chosen side.

Its difficult for me to see how one could take sides in this conflict. Both sides use violence and both sides have walked out of promising negotiations.