These so called 'peace talks' are nothing of the kind. They never have been about peace and they never will be. They have been, and only will ever be, about trying to persuade the Palestinians to make more concessions, whilst offering nothing in return.
how the fuck do you know? can you stop with the hate already? is peace what you want? why is it so hard for you to realize who you and roland's mindset is why there is a problem. I am now convinced you are not interested in peace.
So Israel is willing to 'negotiate in order to install peace'? Really? Do you know what's on offer here? Please inform me, because I have no idea. Have you seen what Israel is now offering? If so, kindly share this information with us.
we dont know. they havent had the fucking meeting yet. why are you so against sitting down and talking it out?
As for Hamas '...continuing to resorting to violence', seems like you have a pretty one-eyed view of things as they actually are over there.
please tell us what is really going on over there. mammason is kinda crazy to think hamas uses violence, but please tell us what the other eye is seeing.
Hamas Attacks Against Fatah Kill 14 and Add to Gaza Chaos
NAHAL OZ, Israel, May 15 — Members of the military wing of Hamas attacked Palestinian Authority security forces loyal to Hamas’s rival, Fatah, on Tuesday, killing nine, according to Fatah officials.
[Early Wednesday, Hamas gunmen stormed the home of a top Fatah security official in Gaza City, killing five bodyguards inside, Palestinian security officials told The Associated Press.]
The current round of factional violence, in its third day Tuesday, threatens the survival of the Authority’s two-month-old unity government, which was the result of a power-sharing agreement between Hamas and Fatah. The attack on the Presidential Guard, loyal to the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, of Fatah, seemed a direct challenge to his authority.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
see the difference between me and you is you want the people you disagree with destroyed.
And you know that is not true.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
It's not so much let's talk about peace as it is let's talk about our demands under the guise of peace.
It's like saying hi let's be friends now, and oh by the way we want more of your land in case you weren't aware of that fact.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Fatah and Israel want to sit down to discuss a peace treaty, but Hamas doesn't. what does that tell you about them. To me that states that they would prefer to continue the killing in order to attain their goals.
Abbas and the Palestinian authority are a puppet government propped up by Israel and the west. Any so called 'peace talks' between them, Israel and the U.S are redundant from the outset. It's that simple.
Yes, they should. It's the only logical thing to do. Just like the Algerians should have continued their resistance against the French occupation after they were defeated in 1957. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The same can be said for India. Should they have continued their resistance after the 1857 mutiny was crushed? Yes, they should have. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The Palestinians have every right to fight for the return of their land from Israeli occupation.
Obviously you think they should just surrender their land to Israel and allow themselves to be destroyed as a nation. Fox news has clearly done a good job on you.
we dont know. they havent had the fucking meeting yet. why are you so against sitting down and talking it out?
Because they ar refusing to talk with Hamas, and Hamas is the elected government. So any 'negotiations' with Hamas being absent are a farce. That's why.
We also need to take history into account. I could provide countless examples of so called 'Peace talks' which have been nothing but a sham but then you'd accuse me of indulging in a 'pasting frenzy', so it's kind of pointless. You have an aversion to facts and to historical precedents. You seem instead to enjoy reveling in pointless egotistical sparring matches, and blowing hot air. The term 'pissing in the wind' comes to mind.
Just some questions regarding this.............Didn't the Palestinians try the legal route and won but to no avail? The UN which represents the world says the Israeli's claims have no legal basis, so I'm sure the Palestinians would be quite happy if Israel were to abide by this ruling and some of the other 80+ UN resolutions Israel have thus far ignored and that's not including the 40 or so resolutions the US vetoed but unfortunately Israel ignores any resolutions they do not like; which to date is every single one.
When folk in the Middle East see countries such as Iraq being destroyed for failing to abide by UN resolutions they get understandably angry when they see the same countries who are prepared to go to war to enforce UN resolutions against Arab countries stand idly by while Israel breaches more resolutions than the rest of the world combined. Just an observation, but perhaps I am missing something...........
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Just some questions regarding this.............Didn't the Palestinians try the legal route and won but to no avail? The UN which represents the world says the Israeli's claims have no legal basis, so I'm sure the Palestinians would be quite happy if Israel were to abide by this ruling and some of the other 80+ UN resolutions Israel have thus far ignored and that's not including the 40 or so resolutions the US vetoed but unfortunately Israel ignores any resolutions they do not like; which to date is every single one.
When folk in the Middle East see countries such as Iraq being destroyed for failing to abide by UN resolutions they get understandably angry when they see the same countries who are prepared to go to war to enforce UN resolutions against Arab countries stand idly by while Israel breaches more resolutions than the rest of the world combined. Just an observation, but perhaps I am missing something...........
Yes, they should. It's the only logical thing to do. Just like the Algerians should have continued their resistance against the French occupation after they were defeated in 1957. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The same can be said for India. Should they have continued their resistance after the 1857 mutiny was crushed? Yes, they should have. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The Palestinians have every right to fight for the return of their land from Israeli occupation.
Obviously you think they should just surrender their land to Israel and allow themselves to be destroyed as a nation. Fox news has clearly done a good job on you.
There it is.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Yes, they should. It's the only logical thing to do. Just like the Algerians should have continued their resistance against the French occupation after they were defeated in 1957. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The same can be said for India. Should they have continued their resistance after the 1857 mutiny was crushed? Yes, they should have. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The Palestinians have every right to fight for the return of their land from Israeli occupation.
Obviously you think they should just surrender their land to Israel and allow themselves to be destroyed as a nation. Fox news has clearly done a good job on you.
thats not even remotely logical and your examples don't hold water. Neither example you stated would have resulted in the destruction of the controlling nation, the Algerian War of Independence took about 8 years, not generations, and Indian independence was from a power who was in no position geographically or financially to keep them. And don't forget the India didn't succeed until a man named Mahatma Gandhi took over, who if i remember correctly, wasn't a fan of violence.
And how is a palestinian state any more legal than an Israeli one? The land in question has been ruled by jewish kingdoms, Assyria, Babylonia, Persia, Greece, the Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, Muslim Sultanates, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, and others. At no point was there ever a palestinian state. I dont see how Israel's right to exist is any more illegal than any other nation's.
The area didnt even come to be known by Palestine until the Roman Empire crushed the Jewish kingdoms in the area and erased all jewish claims by renaming it.
A Palestinian state has never existed, not even before the founding of Israel. It was a part of the Ottoman Empire.
thats not even remotely logical and your examples don't hold water. Neither example you stated would have resulted in the destruction of the controlling nation, the Algerian War of Independence took about 8 years, not generations, and Indian independence was from a power who was in no position geographically or financially to keep them. And don't forget the India didn't succeed until a man named Mahatma Gandhi took over, who if i remember correctly, wasn't a fan of violence.
And the current Intifda has only been going for the last 6 years.
And Israel would be in no position geographically or financially to maintain it's occupation if it wasn't supported 100% by the worlds only superpower.
At no point was there ever a palestinian state. I dont see how Israel's right to exist is any more illegal than any other nation's.
This is simply a lie. Pure and simple. Israel has a right to exist. But according to International law - which the U.S doesn't care about - Israel needs to return to the 1967 borders. The only country which disagrees is the U.S, which is why it has thwarted every effort at a two-state solution.
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Hamas' top leaders in Gaza and Syria warned the moderate Palestinian president Friday not to "fall into the trap" of an upcoming U.S.-sponsored peace conference with Israel.
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Ismail Haniyeh, who was deposed as Palestinian prime minister after Hamas violently seized Gaza in June, urged President Mahmoud Abbas to mend his rift with the Islamic militant group and criticized him for planning to attend the peace conference next month.
"Don't fall into the trap of the coming conference. Don't make new compromises on Jerusalem, on our sovereignty," Haniyeh said, speaking to thousands of cheering supporters for the Muslim Eid al-Fitr holiday.
Hamas' Syria-based supreme leader, Khaled Mashaal, echoed the warning in his own holiday message, accusing Israel and the U.S. of taking advantage of the Palestinian rift to try to wrest concessions in peace negotiations.
Abbas retaliated for Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip by expelling the group from his government and setting up his own administration in the West Bank. Mashaal urged Abbas to accept the Islamists' invitations for dialogue.
Abbas and his allies "will find out that they are pursuing nothing but a mirage," Mashaal said on Hamas radio.
Israel and the Palestinians hope to present the contours of a final peace accord at the conference, tentatively set for Annapolis, Md., at the end of November.
If Israel was complete for peace, they would withdrawal for the occupied teritories, but the expansion of settlements continues. As for Hamas, I don't think they'll accept true peace anytime soon.
"Music, for me, was fucking heroin." eV (nothing Ed has said is more true for me personally than this quote)
This is simply a lie. Pure and simple. Israel has a right to exist. But according to International law - which the U.S doesn't care about - Israel needs to return to the 1967 borders. The only country which disagrees is the U.S, which is why it has thwarted every effort at a two-state solution.
How is it a lie? There has never been an arab nation known as Palestine.
At least you recognize Israel has a right to exist ,now if you can convince Hamas hardliners the same maybe some progress can be made.
If Israel was complete for peace, they would withdrawal for the occupied teritories, but the expansion of settlements continues. As for Hamas, I don't think they'll accept true peace anytime soon.
and for the record I'm not a fan of these idiots expanding beyond their borders with settlements either.
'Even before the Mandate came into legal effect in 1923 (text), British terminology sometimes used '"Palestine" for the part west of the Jordan River and "Trans-Jordan" (or Transjordania) for the part east of the Jordan River.'
look a few posts down from yours. he fully supports hamas's resistance against Israel. thats the difference between he and I. I do not support violence.
Obviously you think they should just surrender their land to Israel and allow themselves to be destroyed as a nation. Fox news has clearly done a good job on you.
there was a war. borders change. land changes hand. its been happening since the beginning of time. neither side is going away. I believe they should both sit down in a room. Israel say what they want, Palastine say what they want, and they begin to negotiate. sadly, you believe in the same cycle of violence.
and what is the fascination with fox news around here? I dont watch fox news, I barely watch TV. if you want to insult me, you'll have to come up with new material.
Are you talking about Israel itslef as occupied territory? If so, they gotta let it fucking go. Israel isn't going anywhere. People are moved in for good. Even if Israel's existence is illegal, There has to be a statute of limitations on that type of thing. To continue sacrificing your people's lives for a bit of land after its become clear you have no outside support and will never win is just ridiculous, and ultimately selfish. It becomes a crusade.
Hahaha...yeah just like we should let 9/11 go. Statue of limitations has to be up.
'Even before the Mandate came into legal effect in 1923 (text), British terminology sometimes used '"Palestine" for the part west of the Jordan River and "Trans-Jordan" (or Transjordania) for the part east of the Jordan River.'
That describes a region (and its not even a very accurate description of what's historically called Palestine.), not a nation. Sorry, try again. The closest you could come to a Palestinian nation is to go back over 2000 years ago to when Philistines made up a tiny area of about 5 city-states in modern Gaza. Even then i don't know if you could describe that as a nation.
If out of nowhere, California was given to Mexico, i dont think we would forget about it 60 years later
Mexico seemed to have gotten over losing California. At least to the point that they don't fire rockets over the border. Do you think they should still be fighting the Mexican-American war? And it wasn't out of nowhere, it resulted from a war the Ottomans lost. Shit happens when you lose a world war and your empire disentigrates.
Ever hear of the saying the little guy gets screwed every time?
I've never understood those who cheer for the bully in a fight.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
look a few posts down from yours. he fully supports hamas's resistance against Israel. thats the difference between he and I. I do not support violence.
I'm not so sure about that.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Mexico seemed to have gotten over losing California. At least to the point that they don't fire rockets over the border. Do you think they should still be fighting the Mexican-American war? And it wasn't out of nowhere, it resulted from a war the Ottomans lost. Shit happens when you lose a world war and your empire disentigrates.
Uh huh, except, you know, the Mexicans still have a place to live. Also, comparing someone attacking the US to Israel is a very big difference.
And of course we got over Pearl Harbor. We kinda nuked em. Twice. I think that's enough to get them over it. If Israel was nuked and left in shambles, I'm sure lots of people would 'get over it', only it would also destroy Palestine since it's the same land.
Your logic is pretty weird. Honestly, I don't see how poeple can get over losing their homes, their lives, their way of life, and just... everything. Also, people keep talking about violence as though the Palestinians, specifically Hamas, are responsible for instigating it and causing it, while the Israelis are the ones with higher death counts, etc. And even though Hamas are not attending this meeting, they also weren't even invited, as far as I know. That shows that Israel is reeeeeeally trying to solve this, right?
probably because you were picked on too much in grade school.
It's called basic human nature. Sounds like you like imagining yourself as the bully.
That's cute.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
how the fuck do you know? can you stop with the hate already? is peace what you want? why is it so hard for you to realize who you and roland's mindset is why there is a problem. I am now convinced you are not interested in peace.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/4895.htm
why are they not legitimate?
more byzine hate. you are a true winner. its people like you who make this world a sad place to live. hate hate hate hate its all you know.
debating with you makes me understand why people become suicide bombers. you cant debate with someone who has NO interest in peace
please tell us what is really going on over there. mammason is kinda crazy to think hamas uses violence, but please tell us what the other eye is seeing.
ready for a cut and paste party?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/16/world/middleeast/16gaza.html?_r=1&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FOrganizations%2FP%2FPalestinian%20Authority&oref=slogin
Hamas Attacks Against Fatah Kill 14 and Add to Gaza Chaos
NAHAL OZ, Israel, May 15 — Members of the military wing of Hamas attacked Palestinian Authority security forces loyal to Hamas’s rival, Fatah, on Tuesday, killing nine, according to Fatah officials.
[Early Wednesday, Hamas gunmen stormed the home of a top Fatah security official in Gaza City, killing five bodyguards inside, Palestinian security officials told The Associated Press.]
The current round of factional violence, in its third day Tuesday, threatens the survival of the Authority’s two-month-old unity government, which was the result of a power-sharing agreement between Hamas and Fatah. The attack on the Presidential Guard, loyal to the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, of Fatah, seemed a direct challenge to his authority.
I obvioulsy could go on, but its a waste of time
Who won the election?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
And you know that is not true.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
It's like saying hi let's be friends now, and oh by the way we want more of your land in case you weren't aware of that fact.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Abbas and the Palestinian authority are a puppet government propped up by Israel and the west. Any so called 'peace talks' between them, Israel and the U.S are redundant from the outset. It's that simple.
Yes, they should. It's the only logical thing to do. Just like the Algerians should have continued their resistance against the French occupation after they were defeated in 1957. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The same can be said for India. Should they have continued their resistance after the 1857 mutiny was crushed? Yes, they should have. Their continued resistance eventually led to their independence.
The Palestinians have every right to fight for the return of their land from Israeli occupation.
Obviously you think they should just surrender their land to Israel and allow themselves to be destroyed as a nation. Fox news has clearly done a good job on you.
Because they ar refusing to talk with Hamas, and Hamas is the elected government. So any 'negotiations' with Hamas being absent are a farce. That's why.
We also need to take history into account. I could provide countless examples of so called 'Peace talks' which have been nothing but a sham but then you'd accuse me of indulging in a 'pasting frenzy', so it's kind of pointless. You have an aversion to facts and to historical precedents. You seem instead to enjoy reveling in pointless egotistical sparring matches, and blowing hot air. The term 'pissing in the wind' comes to mind.
When folk in the Middle East see countries such as Iraq being destroyed for failing to abide by UN resolutions they get understandably angry when they see the same countries who are prepared to go to war to enforce UN resolutions against Arab countries stand idly by while Israel breaches more resolutions than the rest of the world combined. Just an observation, but perhaps I am missing something...........
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
You're spot on the money!
There it is.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
thats not even remotely logical and your examples don't hold water. Neither example you stated would have resulted in the destruction of the controlling nation, the Algerian War of Independence took about 8 years, not generations, and Indian independence was from a power who was in no position geographically or financially to keep them. And don't forget the India didn't succeed until a man named Mahatma Gandhi took over, who if i remember correctly, wasn't a fan of violence.
The area didnt even come to be known by Palestine until the Roman Empire crushed the Jewish kingdoms in the area and erased all jewish claims by renaming it.
A Palestinian state has never existed, not even before the founding of Israel. It was a part of the Ottoman Empire.
And the current Intifda has only been going for the last 6 years.
And Israel would be in no position geographically or financially to maintain it's occupation if it wasn't supported 100% by the worlds only superpower.
This is simply a lie. Pure and simple. Israel has a right to exist. But according to International law - which the U.S doesn't care about - Israel needs to return to the 1967 borders. The only country which disagrees is the U.S, which is why it has thwarted every effort at a two-state solution.
If Israel was complete for peace, they would withdrawal for the occupied teritories, but the expansion of settlements continues. As for Hamas, I don't think they'll accept true peace anytime soon.
Stop by:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14678777351&ref=mf
How is it a lie? There has never been an arab nation known as Palestine.
At least you recognize Israel has a right to exist ,now if you can convince Hamas hardliners the same maybe some progress can be made.
and for the record I'm not a fan of these idiots expanding beyond their borders with settlements either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#British_Mandate_.281920.E2.80.931948.29
'1920 - Formal use of the English word "Palestine" returned with the British Mandate, which enacted English, Hebrew and Arabic as its three official languages.
'Even before the Mandate came into legal effect in 1923 (text), British terminology sometimes used '"Palestine" for the part west of the Jordan River and "Trans-Jordan" (or Transjordania) for the part east of the Jordan River.'
look a few posts down from yours. he fully supports hamas's resistance against Israel. thats the difference between he and I. I do not support violence.
no I do not think using violence is the most logical thing to do.
there was a war. borders change. land changes hand. its been happening since the beginning of time. neither side is going away. I believe they should both sit down in a room. Israel say what they want, Palastine say what they want, and they begin to negotiate. sadly, you believe in the same cycle of violence.
and what is the fascination with fox news around here? I dont watch fox news, I barely watch TV. if you want to insult me, you'll have to come up with new material.
Hahaha...yeah just like we should let 9/11 go. Statue of limitations has to be up.
If it happened 60 years ago, then yes. we got over the japanese attack on Pearl Harbor didnt we? But it happened 6 years ago.
Your logic is severely flawed.
That describes a region (and its not even a very accurate description of what's historically called Palestine.), not a nation. Sorry, try again. The closest you could come to a Palestinian nation is to go back over 2000 years ago to when Philistines made up a tiny area of about 5 city-states in modern Gaza. Even then i don't know if you could describe that as a nation.
If out of nowhere, California was given to Mexico, i dont think we would forget about it 60 years later
Mexico seemed to have gotten over losing California. At least to the point that they don't fire rockets over the border. Do you think they should still be fighting the Mexican-American war? And it wasn't out of nowhere, it resulted from a war the Ottomans lost. Shit happens when you lose a world war and your empire disentigrates.
I've never understood those who cheer for the bully in a fight.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I'm not so sure about that.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
probably because you were picked on too much in grade school.
Uh huh, except, you know, the Mexicans still have a place to live. Also, comparing someone attacking the US to Israel is a very big difference.
And of course we got over Pearl Harbor. We kinda nuked em. Twice. I think that's enough to get them over it. If Israel was nuked and left in shambles, I'm sure lots of people would 'get over it', only it would also destroy Palestine since it's the same land.
Your logic is pretty weird. Honestly, I don't see how poeple can get over losing their homes, their lives, their way of life, and just... everything. Also, people keep talking about violence as though the Palestinians, specifically Hamas, are responsible for instigating it and causing it, while the Israelis are the ones with higher death counts, etc. And even though Hamas are not attending this meeting, they also weren't even invited, as far as I know. That shows that Israel is reeeeeeally trying to solve this, right?
Also, Iran's ayatollah has something to say: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7043174.stm
It's called basic human nature. Sounds like you like imagining yourself as the bully.
That's cute.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")