It's those people who are perfectly 'normal' & 'average' when they purchase their guns.. no police record, no mental illness in the past, etc. They find themselves under pressure, stress, anger.. whatever.... They think what a lot of people may think "I'd kill the bastard if I could".. then.. Oh wait! I've got a gun... I'll use it! And act upon their impulse.
Again, no previous record.. no nothing. How many times have we heard of these things happening with family, neighbours, witnesses saying "He/she is such a nice person.. nobody would have thought.."
These people are the ones that I identify as 'average'. Non average would be your gangsters, etc...
You know perfectly what I mean....
Hehe...so that's what you think the average gun criminal is? Not only does the average person who uses a gun in a crime have a significant record of criminal behavior, the average victim also has a record of criminal behavior. You might want to reconsider any perspective that pretends that the gun itself makes the decision.
Your example above, while certainly not without precendent, is very much the exception to the rule.
Furthermore, attempts to limit the purchase of guns show little effect on violent crime. For every case where violent crime drops after the passage of such laws, there's another case where it goes up.
again, I dont want a ban on all guns. some yes, the rest very hard to get.
boo hooo for the avid gun collector.
jlew, I never would have expected this from you! Are you trying to tell me that you are in favor of the government forcibly confiscating private property from law-abiding citizens?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
jlew, I never would have expected this from you! Are you trying to tell me that you are in favor of the government forcibly confiscating private property from law-abiding citizens?
collectibles? no.
an arsenal of machine guns and assault rifles, yes
I told you what I would like to see banned. anything else, extremely hard to get.
I can't find a post where you say which guns should get banned. Can you point the way?
less guns, less crime. like the example of the guy who shot the kid for throwing an egg at his car.
Perhaps we should ban eggs. Because if there hadn't been an egg, the kid wouldn't have been shot, right?
there were alot less people around 50 years ago. and times have changed.
Note the term violent crime rate. That's not the number of violent crimes, that's the rate at which people are involved in them.
sounds made up
Made up? Do the research. Look at states like Texas that have high rates of gun ownership, but moderate violent crime rates. Look at the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, to which no drop in violent crime can be attributed. Look at the Brady Bill, which did show a drop in violent crime rates. Look at the restrictive laws in New Jersey, after which violent crime increased 50%. It may be time to realize that gun control and violent crime are not linked like you think they are.
jlew, I never would have expected this from you! Are you trying to tell me that you are in favor of the government forcibly confiscating private property from law-abiding citizens?
I've read Jlew's posts for last several months..and he's evolving. Course I'm thinking most people on this board are...even if they won't admit it......both ways by the way.
Made up? Do the research. Look at states like Texas that have high rates of gun ownership, but moderate violent crime rates. Look at the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, to which no drop in violent crime can be attributed. Look at the Brady Bill, which did show a drop in violent crime rates. Look at the restrictive laws in New Jersey, after which violent crime increased 50%. It may be time to realize that gun control and violent crime are not linked like you think they are.
Hehe...so that's what you think the average gun criminal is? Not only does the average person who uses a gun in a crime have a significant record of criminal behavior, the average victim also has a record of criminal behavior. You might want to reconsider any perspective that pretends that the gun itself makes the decision.
Your example above, while certainly not without precendent, is very much the exception to the rule.
Yeah?
"Sacramento, CA -- Young adults who legally buy small, inexpensive handguns are more likely to commit a crime after the purchase of the gun even if they had no criminal record, say investigators at UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program.
Garen Wintemute, an emergency room physician and public health epidemiologist at the UC Davis School of Medicine and Medical Center, published the findings in the January issue of the Journal of Trauma, which was mailed to subscribers this week.
Young adults have among the highest rates of weapons offenses and other forms of serious criminal activity in the United States. The UC Davis study is the first to investigate the preferences of young adults who purchase guns legally and to link choice of gun type with future criminal activity.
"For years there has been anecdotal evidence to support the view that small, inexpensive handguns play a role in crimes committed by first offenders," says Wintemute. "This study is the first to rely on objective, comparative data to determine whether the purchase of small, inexpensive handguns, the so-called Saturday Night Specials, is a valid indicator for later criminal activity."
Of the 31,121 individuals aged 21 to 25 years of age who passed background checks and purchased handguns in California in 1988, 90 percent had no previous criminal history. But those who purchased small, inexpensive handguns were 70 percent more likely than purchasers of other handguns to be charged with their first criminal offense. Moreover, young adults with no prior criminal record who purchased these handguns were 90 percent more likely to be charged with an offense involving violence or a weapon in the three years following their purchase. "
OK.. so this study is about small, inexpensive handguns but hey... just goes to show that not only assault weapons and automatics should be banned...
I've read Jlew's posts for last several months..and he's evolving. Course I'm thinking most people on this board are...even if they won't admit it......both ways by the way.
just because I dont want to piss on bush's grave after he passes, people assume I'm a raging right wing neo-con.
Yeah, fuck the law abiding citizen minding his/her own business.
o relax. i'm not hoping every gun in this country is rounded up. I specifically said which guns I would and which ones are ok to own. provided those owners should proof they are law abiding citizens
"Sacramento, CA -- Young adults who legally buy small, inexpensive handguns are more likely to commit a crime after the purchase of the gun even if they had no criminal record, say investigators at UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program.
Garen Wintemute, an emergency room physician and public health epidemiologist at the UC Davis School of Medicine and Medical Center, published the findings in the January issue of the Journal of Trauma, which was mailed to subscribers this week.
Young adults have among the highest rates of weapons offenses and other forms of serious criminal activity in the United States. The UC Davis study is the first to investigate the preferences of young adults who purchase guns legally and to link choice of gun type with future criminal activity.
"For years there has been anecdotal evidence to support the view that small, inexpensive handguns play a role in crimes committed by first offenders," says Wintemute. "This study is the first to rely on objective, comparative data to determine whether the purchase of small, inexpensive handguns, the so-called Saturday Night Specials, is a valid indicator for later criminal activity."
Of the 31,121 individuals aged 21 to 25 years of age who passed background checks and purchased handguns in California in 1988, 90 percent had no previous criminal history. But those who purchased small, inexpensive handguns were 70 percent more likely than purchasers of other handguns to be charged with their first criminal offense. Moreover, young adults with no prior criminal record who purchased these handguns were 90 percent more likely to be charged with an offense involving violence or a weapon in the three years following their purchase. "
OK.. so this study is about small, inexpensive handguns but hey... just goes to show that not only assault weapons and automatics should be banned...
This is great:
"But those who purchased small, inexpensive handguns were 70 percent more likely than purchasers of other handguns to be charged with their first criminal offense"
Was that "first criminal offense" a gun offense?
Also, I love how it says people who buy certain guns are more "90% more likely to be charged with an offense involving violence or a weapon". Can I just turn the logic around and say the people who buy the other guns are "90% less likely to be charged"????
Your contention was that the average murder is just some crime of passion by an average person. This does not bear out in the stats. 60-75% of murderers had prior records, depending on who you listen to. Furthermore, the average US household has a gun and a murder or crime is not committed with that gun.
Not really, unless of course I have to run my own background check for you.
with enough speeding tickets you license will get revoked and/or insurence costs will be too expensive to own a car.
That's not "tough enough". I want people's cars to be confiscated for the first offense. Furthermore, the very ownership of a car should put you under suspicion.
That's not "tough enough". I want people's cars to be confiscated for the first offense. Furthermore, the very ownership of a car should put you under suspicion.
that sucks, good thing you arent a law-maker or lawyer, we would all be in some hot water.
cars are not made or designed to kill people. guns are.
Comments
Hehe...so that's what you think the average gun criminal is? Not only does the average person who uses a gun in a crime have a significant record of criminal behavior, the average victim also has a record of criminal behavior. You might want to reconsider any perspective that pretends that the gun itself makes the decision.
Your example above, while certainly not without precendent, is very much the exception to the rule.
you get arrested
I told you what I would like to see banned. anything else, extremely hard to get.
I like hot showers
less guns, less crime. like the example of the guy who shot the kid for throwing an egg at his car.
there were alot less people around 50 years ago. and times have changed.
sounds made up
It's also easy to make a gun.
That's the easiest of all.
collectibles? no.
an arsenal of machine guns and assault rifles, yes
Is that magic? How do they get arrested?
I can't find a post where you say which guns should get banned. Can you point the way?
Perhaps we should ban eggs. Because if there hadn't been an egg, the kid wouldn't have been shot, right?
Note the term violent crime rate. That's not the number of violent crimes, that's the rate at which people are involved in them.
Made up? Do the research. Look at states like Texas that have high rates of gun ownership, but moderate violent crime rates. Look at the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, to which no drop in violent crime can be attributed. Look at the Brady Bill, which did show a drop in violent crime rates. Look at the restrictive laws in New Jersey, after which violent crime increased 50%. It may be time to realize that gun control and violent crime are not linked like you think they are.
And what if I collect machine guns and assault rifles?
I've read Jlew's posts for last several months..and he's evolving. Course I'm thinking most people on this board are...even if they won't admit it......both ways by the way.
I want them banned. in my world, they would be confiscated.
handcuffs, mug shot, court date.
my first post on this thread.
eggs dont kill people
if you say so
Yeah?
"Sacramento, CA -- Young adults who legally buy small, inexpensive handguns are more likely to commit a crime after the purchase of the gun even if they had no criminal record, say investigators at UC Davis Violence Prevention Research Program.
Garen Wintemute, an emergency room physician and public health epidemiologist at the UC Davis School of Medicine and Medical Center, published the findings in the January issue of the Journal of Trauma, which was mailed to subscribers this week.
Young adults have among the highest rates of weapons offenses and other forms of serious criminal activity in the United States. The UC Davis study is the first to investigate the preferences of young adults who purchase guns legally and to link choice of gun type with future criminal activity.
"For years there has been anecdotal evidence to support the view that small, inexpensive handguns play a role in crimes committed by first offenders," says Wintemute. "This study is the first to rely on objective, comparative data to determine whether the purchase of small, inexpensive handguns, the so-called Saturday Night Specials, is a valid indicator for later criminal activity."
Of the 31,121 individuals aged 21 to 25 years of age who passed background checks and purchased handguns in California in 1988, 90 percent had no previous criminal history. But those who purchased small, inexpensive handguns were 70 percent more likely than purchasers of other handguns to be charged with their first criminal offense. Moreover, young adults with no prior criminal record who purchased these handguns were 90 percent more likely to be charged with an offense involving violence or a weapon in the three years following their purchase. "
OK.. so this study is about small, inexpensive handguns but hey... just goes to show that not only assault weapons and automatics should be banned...
just because I dont want to piss on bush's grave after he passes, people assume I'm a raging right wing neo-con.
Yeah, fuck the law abiding citizen minding his/her own business.
o relax. i'm not hoping every gun in this country is rounded up. I specifically said which guns I would and which ones are ok to own. provided those owners should proof they are law abiding citizens
So your police officers are armed with only handcuffs, camera and date books?
Ok, I think I misread it. Are you suggesting that only assault rifles be banned? We already had that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban
It appears that your only standard here is to ban that which fits the following logic:
"If XXXXX hadn't been part of the equation, a murder wouldn't have happened"
Slow down Stalin.
when did I say law enforcement shouldnt carry guns?
that was a start, law should have been tougher then that but it expired anyway. I find it sad
if a GUN hadnt been part of that equation, a murder wouldnt have happened.
why? I dont think former criminals should be allowed to be a gun collector
This is great:
"But those who purchased small, inexpensive handguns were 70 percent more likely than purchasers of other handguns to be charged with their first criminal offense"
Was that "first criminal offense" a gun offense?
Also, I love how it says people who buy certain guns are more "90% more likely to be charged with an offense involving violence or a weapon". Can I just turn the logic around and say the people who buy the other guns are "90% less likely to be charged"????
Your contention was that the average murder is just some crime of passion by an average person. This does not bear out in the stats. 60-75% of murderers had prior records, depending on who you listen to. Furthermore, the average US household has a gun and a murder or crime is not committed with that gun.
You put the burden of proof for their innocence on them. That's very scary.
I don't think people who get speeding tickets should be allowed to drive, since speeding is the #1 cause of traffic fatalities.
Unless of course they're used enforcing your gun ban, right?
background checks. something wrong with that?
with enough speeding tickets you license will get revoked and/or insurence costs will be too expensive to own a car.
looks like you got your wish
You didn't. That's the problem.
The law expired, yes. However, during the 10 years it was around it led to no known decline in violent crime.
Same goes for the egg.
no I hate those guns too
Not really, unless of course I have to run my own background check for you.
That's not "tough enough". I want people's cars to be confiscated for the first offense. Furthermore, the very ownership of a car should put you under suspicion.
Then why are you demanding that they be used?
why would you assume I wanted guns taken away from law enforement?
10 years isnt long enough, and I dont think it was tough enough
wrong. that guy could have shot and killed the kid for wearing the wrong gang colors.
some people dont even need a reason to start shooting other people.
would love to have an egg fight. no one would die
I'm not. I never demanded anything. you need to stop assuming. too much is going on in the little head of yours
no you wont. dont worry
that sucks, good thing you arent a law-maker or lawyer, we would all be in some hot water.
cars are not made or designed to kill people. guns are.