Would you prefer we lose the war in Iraq?

PaperPlates

Abuskedti wrote:

I hope we lose!

the only positive available is the knowledge that this was a complete failure.

of course we are already there....

heaven knows how much more it will take for us to realize it.

You call him a dork? This is your way of "supporting" the troops? You do realise that in order to actually call it a loss, your are basically saying

"I hope an obscene amount of soldiers die, so we have no choice but to cut our losses and run, that way I can finally proove Ive been 'right'".

Scratchin a Letter

The war has been lost already.
The occupation is simply there to try and keep the peace, which is virtually impossible.
There is no long term objective
There was no clear objective at the beginning
They got rid of Saddam...
...and even though he is gone....
things are much worse
the Iraqi people live in fear of terror
and the occupation
and each other...

The US have transformed an already bloody and deadly place
Into something even worse
They have already lost...
...and there is no way of claiming victory now.

This is another Vietnam
and a civil war to match.

Abuskedti

PaperPlates wrote:

You call him a dork? This is your way of "supporting" the troops? You do realise that in order to actually call it a loss, your are basically saying

"I hope an obscene amount of soldiers die, so we have no choice but to cut our losses and run, that way I can finally proove Ive been 'right'".

no my friend, it seems you have missed the fact that an obscene amount of soldiers have already died for nothing. A far more obscene amount of innocent Iraqis (all the soldiers equally innocent) have already died for nothing. We have already lost. If we come home today - and leave Iraq to the Iraqis we will have saved many many lives.

Iraq will fight it out - a number of Iraqis will continue to die - hard to imagine at any greater rate - and they will progress into the Iraq they will want to be.

The only victory we can achieve today or tomorrow would be to give Iraq back to the Iraqis. Everyday that passes our loss only grows.

PaperPlates

Abuskedti wrote:

no my friend, it seems you have missed the fact that an obscene amount of soldiers have already died for nothing. A far more obscene amount of innocent Iraqis (all the soldiers equally innocent) have already died for nothing. We have already lost. If we come home today - and leave Iraq to the Iraqis we will have saved many many lives.

Iraq will fight it out - a number of Iraqis will continue to die - hard to imagine at any greater rate - and they will progress into the Iraq they will want to be.

The only victory we can achieve today or tomorrow would be to give Iraq back to the Iraqis. Everyday that passes our loss only grows.

So was that just for shock value? I realise that too many people have died. You're not the only one out there you know. Perspective's may differ, but Im sure we all understand that. But the only one who should say "I hope we(the US) lose" is the enemy. You are basically hoping many more die. You know thats the only way we leave. When we have more dead than alive. And thats what your statement boils down to.

Abuskedti

PaperPlates wrote:

So was that just for shock value? I realise that too many people have died. You're not the only one out there you know. Perspective's may differ, but Im sure we all understand that. But the only one who should say "I hope we(the US) lose" is the enemy. You are basically hoping many more die. You know thats the only way we leave. When we have more dead than alive. And thats what your statement boils down to.

The key to wanting us to lose is simple. Once we have lost (or accept that we have lost) it will be past tense. It will be over. That is what I hope for.

know1

It would be hard for the U.S. to even define a win from this operation from it's own viewpoint. However, if the Iraqi people end up with significantly better lives, then there will be at least a positive out of it.

Heineken Helen

Hmm… didn’t ya lose the one in Vietnam? And the world kept spinning, didn’t it?

So you think it’s better that less American lives are lost than Iraqi lives? What makes an American more important or valuable than an Iraqi? Your opinion?

‘Its not a fucking footie match.....prick’

Like Al said. I hate all this video game bullshit talk. These are fucking LIVES and there are very few winners in ANY war except those who profit from it – and I don’t consider that winning.

‘These people volunteer to give their lives to protect what you have’

I’m sorry, but how exactly are they ‘protecting’ you when they’re halfway across the world in another country that was NEVER any kind of threat to you?

Abuskedti

Heineken Helen wrote:

Hmm… didn’t ya lose the one in Vietnam? And the world kept spinning, didn’t it?

So you think it’s better that less American lives are lost than Iraqi lives? What makes an American more important or valuable than an Iraqi? Your opinion?

‘Its not a fucking footie match.....prick’

Like Al said. I hate all this video game bullshit talk. These are fucking LIVES and there are very few winners in ANY war except those who profit from it – and I don’t consider that winning.

‘These people volunteer to give their lives to protect what you have’

I’m sorry, but how exactly are they ‘protecting’ you when they’re halfway across the world in another country that was NEVER any kind of threat to you?

hello my dear... their current actions are doing nothing to protect us.. I agree. However, that is what they volunteered to do. And that is what they are supposed to be risking their lives for. And either they are dying for our protection or they are being killed as they are abused for their patriotism and bravery. I guess you can choose, but either way, they need our support love and they need us to do what we can to save them and at the same time save all the people that are being killed by this mistake - by this loss, by this disasterous attempt to bring peace by killing so many people who are out of sight

IndianSummer

WindNoSail wrote:

consider the human fecal matter we are dealing with in Iraq

human fecal matter in post ww2 days have almost invariably been the ones who napalm innocents, cause My lai and carpet bomb cambodia with bombs and mines causing a sinificant percentage of their population to lose their limbs.

prytocorduroy

Abuskedti wrote:

I hope we lose!

the only positive available is the knowledge that this was a complete failure.

of course we are already there....

heaven knows how much more it will take for us to realize it.

Post of the day.

Why is it schmucko Shrub knows what's best for other countries but can't run his own?

IndianSummer

Commy wrote:

the only way to win the war is to not fight...pull the troops out and its over, that simple.

nobody wants the US to lose...most people don'tt want the US to be their at all.

it will be very spineless to pull out now, after fucking up the country.

IndianSummer

Commy wrote:

The CIA has a lot to answer for, that's for sure.

yep.

yesterday i pointed out how http://www.rotten.com manages to hit the nail on the head in their own sarcastic way (my example was their take on the kama sutra, in the sexuality based lifestyles thread)


now here i paste what they had to say about the cia, in the opening lines of the webpage about central idiotic agency.


"Never have so many done so much that was so bad to so many others for so little discernible benefit to so few."

again, spot on.

IndianSummer

soaks the pages wrote:

no doubt many americans want to win this war,

sure, being the all out capitalistic country that it is, usa would sure like to recover its "investment' in iraq, with the help of iraqi oil wells and restoration projects.

IndianSummer

Pegasus wrote:

I don't care we loose, as long as the ordinary Iraqi people win...they didn't have a choice.

I'm not for withdrawal btw.
I was dead against going there in the first place, but once we created the mess, we have to clean it up..not sure how though...but then that's what they should have thought about before going..
looking very bleak indeed for the Iraqis.

Can't say I feel particularly for the soldiers on the other hand; there's no draft, they have a bloody choice.

well said, esp the first line.

Pegasus

Abuskedti wrote:

Dork! These people volunteer to give their lives to protect what you have.. you choose assholes to make the decisions - these people live up to their vow - and get killed.. and you enjoy the security.. and be smug abou thier sacrifice and don't even have the charactor to be greatful and supportive.

Hope you are happy enough with all you have so as to outweigh the disrespect and selfishness and blindness to all that allows you to continue to play your sweet little role in life.

I didn't ask them anything, I don't see what they're doing as any benefit to anyone, I don't see why I should be grateful.
I don't buy patriotism. It's just a tool, along with religion, people in power are using to get suckers to fight for them. It's not bravery, it's stupidity or gullability.
I would rather go to jail than join the army. Being a woman, It was lucky I did not have to do military service (which was compulsary for men of my age where I'm from), cos I would NOT have gone; no matter what the cost.

And I unfortunatly had no say in electing either Bush or Blair (I'm not British so am only allowed to pay the taxes paying for this stupid war, not to vote).
Soldiers in Iraq are not making us more secure, but less. And even if they did it's not acceptable if it's to the detriment of iraqis in their own bloody country.

Heineken Helen

Abuskedti wrote:

hello my dear... their current actions are doing nothing to protect us.. I agree. However, that is what they volunteered to do. And that is what they are supposed to be risking their lives for. And either they are dying for our protection or they are being killed as they are abused for their patriotism and bravery. I guess you can choose, but either way, they need our support love and they need us to do what we can to save them and at the same time save all the people that are being killed by this mistake - by this loss, by this disasterous attempt to bring peace by killing so many people who are out of sight

Ok, I'll go along with that. I find it hard to support the troops in general - I mean those who believe in the reasons they were sent there. Those who signed up to actually PROTECT your country and were sent there while KNOWING it's bullshit, I DO feel sorry for and I think they need support alright. However, if it were up to ME and I faced the choice of going to war and fighting for NOTHING or prosecution... I know which choice I would HAVE to make.

MLC2006

Pegasus wrote:

I didn't ask them anything, I don't see what they're doing as any benefit to anyone, I don't see why I should be grateful.
I don't buy patriotism. It's just a tool, along with religion, people in power are using to get suckers to fight for them. It's not bravery, it's stupidity or gullability.
I would rather go to jail than join the army. Being a woman, It was lucky I did not have to do military service (which was compulsary for men of my age where I'm from), cos I would NOT have gone; no matter what the cost.

And I unfortunatly had no say in electing either Bush or Blair (I'm not British so am only allowed to pay the taxes paying for this stupid war, not to vote).
Soldiers in Iraq are not making us more secure, but less. And even if they did it's not acceptable if it's to the detriment of iraqis in their own bloody country.

here's what they're doing for you, genius. they're volunteering so that there doesn't have to be a draft, so that YOU don't have to join. if there weren't a voluntary military, there would be a draft (because nations must have armies, since this isn't fantasy world) and then it could be YOU found mutilated yesterday in Iraq instead of 2 who volunteered for it.

I'm not saying you need to be some flag waving, chest thumping patriot that bows down and kisses the feet of the military. but maybe at least show a little respect where it's due or have enough intelligence to keep the mouth shut. to say they're not doing anything for you is just complete ignorance.

Abuskedti

Heineken Helen wrote:

Ok, I'll go along with that. I find it hard to support the troops in general - I mean those who believe in the reasons they were sent there. Those who signed up to actually PROTECT your country and were sent there while KNOWING it's bullshit, I DO feel sorry for and I think they need support alright. However, if it were up to ME and I faced the choice of going to war and fighting for NOTHING or prosecution... I know which choice I would HAVE to make.

If you abandon your country when you disagree - you will always abandon because you can never always agree. And if you abandon your country in war - you abandon the guys fighting by you side and put their lives in further danger.

its just not fair to judge these poor people.

Heineken Helen

MLC2006 wrote:

I'm not saying you need to be some flag waving, chest thumping patriot that bows down and kisses the feet of the military. but maybe at least show a little respect where it's due or have enough intelligence to keep the mouth shut. to say they're not doing anything for you is just complete ignorance.

But what about that whole freedom of speech thing? Just cos YOU think a certain way or even feel STRONGLY about it, doesn't mean we're not entitled to think differently.

Heineken Helen

Abuskedti wrote:

If you abandon your country when you disagree - you will always abandon because you can never always agree. And if you abandon your country in war - you abandon the guys fighting by you side and put their lives in further danger.

its just not fair to judge these poor people.

See I don't see it as a war - it's an invasion. If my country were being invaded, trust me I certainly wouldn't be sitting here chatting to any of you... but IF my country sent me off to do unto another country what has been done to us for centuries I would HAVE to refuse.