Would you prefer we lose the war in Iraq?

WindNoSail

rightondude wrote:

Hehe you got the double post login thingy bug. It blows my mind that these cushy, overfed, out of shape fatcats bargain over countries and resources and haven't a clue what thy're doing to peoples lives. The magnitude of their sheer arrogance and disregard for people and reality for that matter makes the whole institution a very dangerous vehicle in the hands of an inexperienced (delusional) driver.

I guess the good ol boys thought that back in the day, it was just like making hay, but it's a bigger smarter world then it was 50 - 100 years ago.

I believe we are all not only changing, but changing ever faster in the evolutionary sense - even in our day to day lives sense. I don't think the southern good old boy "hang em high" approach is just not going to cut it internationally anymore. Put away the legacy of the Texas cowboy six shooter (Yosemite Sam) approach, I think it's time to close the book on the legacy of that fabled iconic mentality.

I guess if the US really wanted to take over Iraq really fast all they'd have to do is eliminate TV, Newspapers, and the internet, oh and radio.

In that scenario if left unchecked...we'd prolly just wake up one morning and take an oath to the order texas heehaw club and become a slave to the US govt working on whatever...

Let's see.... kill all the indians...enslave all black people. Treat them like crap as long as you possibly can until the people in your own country decide to fight you because of it. Start up a bunch of clans to try and fight it. When that's finally all burned up and no longer acceptable....start doing the exact same somewhere/everywhere else...

I'm telling you... some of that southern mentality stuff is like a virulent disease spreading the earth...

Let's talk about this Southern thing - can't now though (working). That is a really pretty big simplification.

Heineken Helen

WindNoSail wrote:

UN wrote the resolutions, but they bailed out at the first sign of difficulty. Hence the US felt obligated to step up. Right or wrong, that is what happened.

No the US were the ones who MADE the UN weak by undermining them all along - bet they wish they could turn to them now.

Eliot Rosewater

Ahnimus wrote:

The violence in Iraq is increasing and the U.S. is not going to be able to accomplish anything. That is why the military is looking for foreign troops to help out. The whole world can run a debt and loss of life now for the big fuck up. In the end, the resistance will continue to build and nothing will be accomplished from occupation. Let the country heal on it's own. Should have let them take Saddam out themselves.

Part of the reason for going into Iraq was because Saddam tortured people. Now the U.S. Military is torturing people. It's a big hipocritical fuck you to the world. The U.S. supplied Iraq with weapons and funding, supported him and then made shit up against him. The same goes for Osama and al-Qaeda, they are government funded terrorist cells used to cause global panic.

Leaving Iraq will leave it in their hands. There will be immediate celebration, since they won't be occupied anymore and will be sovereign again. There will be some resistance to the new government, wether they accept it or overthrow it, is their fucking choice, self-determination.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's their country. The United States is clearly the "terrorists" in this situation. I don't even believe that terrorists exist in this situation. The insurgents are fighting for their freedom from the United States. They want us out of their fucking country and we have absolutely no business being there.

And if our supposed goal was to free them from Saddam and end the murder and torture that's plagued their people then why the FUCK aren't we doing more to help African countries like Darfur? Maybe because we care more about oil than diamonds?

Eliot Rosewater

WindNoSail wrote:

Interesting....the biggest difference between then and now is subtle in most people's minds, but I think it could bet the collapse of the Soviet Union. There were always two camps - democrats and communists/totalitarianism. W/o fear of Soviet Agression, its like America has become the problem in many peoples minds, yet we have always been the "beacon of freedom and democracy" in the past. Did we (US) change or did the world change?

I submit that the world has changed. The U.S. has always cloaked its greedy, unethical and illegal agendas with "democracy". The world is just barely starting to notice.

WindNoSail

don't gimme no wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly. It's their country. The United States is clearly the "terrorists" in this situation. I don't even believe that terrorists exist in this situation. The insurgents are fighting for their freedom from the United States. They want us out of their fucking country and we have absolutely no business being there.

And if our supposed goal was to free them from Saddam and end the murder and torture that's plagued their people then why the FUCK aren't we doing more to help African countries like Darfur? Maybe because we care more about oil than diamonds?

I am sorry, but no way can you honestly say the US are terrorists in this situation. Sorry. This is Michael Moore stuff, which is just too radical to be good policy. Insurgents = freedom fighters, what? Who lives in freedom under the insurgents rule. ie Taliban, Saudi Arabia. I guess radical Islam is so free that if you write a book that offends you, they lop off your head or stab you will riding your bike in Denmark.

Eliot Rosewater

Heineken Helen wrote:

No the US were the ones who MADE the UN weak by undermining them all along - bet they wish they could turn to them now.

If by "they" you mean the government then absolutely not. Our government despises the UN. But if by "they" you mean the American people then you bet your ass we wish we would turn to them now. Doesn't the UN have a responsibility to stop what the U.S. is doing in Iraq? It seems to me like they would.

thankyougrandma

WindNoSail wrote:

I am sorry, but no way can you honestly say the US are terrorists in this situation. Sorry. This is Michael Moore stuff, which is just too radical to be good policy. Insurgents = freedom fighters, what? Who lives in freedom under the insurgents rule. ie Taliban, Saudi Arabia. I guess radical Islam is so free that if you write a book that offends you, they lop off your head or stab you will riding your bike in Denmark.

USA failed in Iraq, time to step down and admit the failure... hand the reign to another entity (UN, coalition, whatever), and pay for reparation to the Iraquis peoples... won't happen of course...

weenie

So what the fuck business is it of ours what they do in other countries when we have people who are unemployed, homeless and can't afford medical care. Do you really think that the people of other countries are more important that our own "needy"? Our youth are dying for some cause that is irrelevant to the real problems this country has - class distinction for example - Where were you when Katrina hit New Orleans and thousands of Americans were left to suffer in the heat and stench? Don't you think "our boys" would have served more purpose to have been in New Orleans helping the displaced than 4,000 miles away KILLING and being KILLED for people who don't speak the same language? I'm sorry, JMO, but I think that's a really warped value system.

Eliot Rosewater

WindNoSail wrote:

I am sorry, but no way can you honestly say the US are terrorists in this situation. Sorry. This is Michael Moore stuff, which is just too radical to be good policy. Insurgents = freedom fighters, what? Who lives in freedom under the insurgents rule. ie Taliban, Saudi Arabia. I guess radical Islam is so free that if you write a book that offends you, they lop off your head or stab you will riding your bike in Denmark.

The bottom line is that we cannot trust this administration for one stinking second. They cry "terrorist" at every bend in the road to death and destruction that they've created. All I'm saying is that I don't believe terrorism is even a large threat in Iraq....and if it is then it's one that the U.S. created....either in reality or in the minds of the American people.

Now would you or would you not act in a similar fashion as the Iraqis if some arrogant nation were to illegally attack and occupy your country?

weenie

I agree. Just like PJ says in Bushleaguer - drilling for fear makes the job simple....... Bush played the "fear" card to get re-elected and he still invokes it every chance he gets. I'm sorry, but the guy is a fucking moron and I don't understand how anyone with an IQ over 100 can't see that.

Eliot Rosewater

thankyougrandma wrote:

USA failed in Iraq, time to step down and admit the failure... hand the reign to another entity (UN, coalition, whatever), and pay for reparation to the Iraquis peoples... won't happen of course...

I agree completely. We owe such great reparations for our wrongdoings in Iraq. So when I suggest that we withdraw completely and immediately I'm not suggesting that we abandon them. We need to pay for our wrongdoings. Not in blood, but financially. We need to offer some sort of aid to the Iraqi people without occupying their country. I don't know how or exactly what, but it's clear that reparations are a must. Yet, sadly, I agree with you that it won't happen.

Eliot Rosewater

weenie wrote:

So what the fuck business is it of ours what they do in other countries when we have people who are unemployed, homeless and can't afford medical care. Do you really think that the people of other countries are more important that our own "needy"? Our youth are dying for some cause that is irrelevant to the real problems this country has - class distinction for example - Where were you when Katrina hit New Orleans and thousands of Americans were left to suffer in the heat and stench? Don't you think "our boys" would have served more purpose to have been in New Orleans helping the displaced than 4,000 miles away KILLING and being KILLED for people who don't speak the same language? I'm sorry, JMO, but I think that's a really warped value system.

Good post...I think it's clear that we could have saved lives of our own people had so much of our national guard not been on foreign soil.

Eliot Rosewater

weenie wrote:

I agree. Just like PJ says in Bushleaguer - drilling for fear makes the job simple....... Bush played the "fear" card to get re-elected and he still invokes it every chance he gets. I'm sorry, but the guy is a fucking moron and I don't understand how anyone with an IQ over 100 can't see that.

Well, 100 is supposed to be the average IQ.....so I think a lot of people with above average intelligence do see that. Lower your figure to 60 or so. I'd say that most chimpanzees can even see that the guy is a fucking moron.

thankyougrandma

What did Viet-Nam looked like when the USA troops retired?

thankyougrandma

In Iraq, USA troops are barely protecting anyone, the civillians are getting killed anyway, USA troops protect american interest which would disappear if the american troops would withdraw, again that's not the plan, the plan is to occupy the territory...

TexJam

Heineken Helen wrote:

No the US were the ones who MADE the UN weak by undermining them all along - bet they wish they could turn to them now.

The UN is the most corrupt and useless organization on Earth. Cmon!

TexJam

thankyougrandma wrote:

USA failed in Iraq, time to step down and admit the failure... hand the reign to another entity (UN, coalition, whatever), and pay for reparation to the Iraquis peoples... won't happen of course...

We are SUCCEEDING in Iraq. Maybe not in everybodys eyes.
but real quick.
Just a question, sir , why do you hate America so much?

TexJam

thankyougrandma wrote:

USA failed in Iraq, time to step down and admit the failure... hand the reign to another entity (UN, coalition, whatever), and pay for reparation to the Iraquis peoples... won't happen of course...

oh...and are we a bunch of quitters now? man up dude.

Edit: Just found out you are from Canada. Hmnmmm.....that explains everything.

My apologies.

thankyougrandma

TexJam wrote:

We are SUCCEEDING in Iraq. Maybe not in everybodys eyes.
but real quick.
Just a question, sir , why do you hate America so much?

You make me laugh, no offense...

TexJam

thankyougrandma wrote:

You make me laugh, no offense...

Well....the french make me laugh...well the whole world actually...so :-)

TexJam

thankyougrandma wrote:

You make me laugh, no offense...

Well...I have a deal for you. Explain to me why Iraq isn't better off today compared to pre-Saddam. I realize innocents have died...and that is tragic. And also explain how we lost and should throw up the white flag.

thankyougrandma

TexJam wrote:

Well....the french make me laugh...well the whole world actually...so :-)

prove me how the USA are winning this war in Iraq, are they showing the civillians killing in Texas or just Americans death, you should definitly wake up, it's time for your country to admit their mistakes and failure, and to step down, it wouldn't be coward or spineless, it would be an act of bravery...

thankyougrandma

TexJam wrote:

Well...I have a deal for you. Explain to me why Iraq isn't better off today compared to pre-Saddam. I realize innocents have died...and that is tragic. And also explain how we lost and should throw up the white flag.

blabla about the past won't do shit, tell me how it is a winning situation and what is the USA plan to achieve a "win" and what the main point for a "win" are, so far i've seen none of these, cause there's no plan of winning, being in the country is what the USA were looking for.

edit: it's not about the USA, it's about the Iraquis, every account of Iraquis speaking outside Iraq is talking about how they're living in fears and without any freedoms right now, the fear of being killed just because of their ethnicity all this, is enough for me to conclude that the USA have already failed...

TexJam

thankyougrandma wrote:

blabla about the past won't do shit, tell me how it is a winning situation and what is the USA plan to achieve a "win" and what the main point for a "win" are, so far i've seen none of these, cause there's no plan of winning, being in the country is what the USA were looking for.

Huh? I guess you are asking how we are winning? Well...you answer me,since I asked first, how are we losing? please don't be the typical lib(that is if you are) and not answer questions when asked......and please don't change the subject.

weenie

Yeah, one would hope. I don't know about your area, but I see hundreds of those damn "W" stickers on cars all the time. I would be embarrased to have one of those things on anything of min. Of course, "southerners" do have a reputation for being dense....... I'm from South Florida - a little bit different there. Lots of liberals.

TexJam

thankyougrandma wrote:

edit: it's not about the USA, it's about the Iraquis, every account of Iraquis speaking outside Iraq is talking about how they're living in fears and without any freedoms right now, the fear of being killed just because of their ethnicity all this, is enough for me to conclude that the USA have already failed...

Well...good thing you can't vote. Please stay in Canada.

thankyougrandma

TexJam wrote:

Huh? I guess you are asking how we are winning? Well...you answer me,since I asked first, how are we losing? please don't be the typical lib(that is if you are) and not answer questions when asked......and please don't change the subject.

yeah i did while i was posting you posted this and vice versa, that's what sucks with the internet, and mind you i have to translate before i post so it can take longer, but it's up there...

thankyougrandma

TexJam wrote:

Well...good thing you can't vote. Please stay in Canada.

good thing you can't vote??? what's that suppose to mean? Don't worry i'll stay in Canada...

weenie

"typical libs" aren't NOT answering the questions..... It's just that the "typical conservative" doesn't GET the answer......

TexJam

weenie wrote:

Yeah, one would hope. I don't know about your area, but I see hundreds of those damn "W" stickers on cars all the time. I would be embarrased to have one of those things on anything of min. Of course, "southerners" do have a reputation for being dense....... I'm from South Florida - a little bit different there. Lots of liberals.

**shakes head**

hate leads to anger.....