Would you prefer we lose the war in Iraq?

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  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    When the US starts 'helping' nations who are ASKING for help, like Sudan, THEN maybe I'll believe their actions are even a tiny bit selfless. YES, the rest of us are doing fuck all too but at least we're not saying that we're too busy saving the world to help :rolleyes:
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • pushmepullmepushmepullme Posts: 255
    "In my opinion, each country has a right to rule in a way they see fit."

    So why not let them?

    "He had started 4 regional wars, violated dozens of UN resolutions among a long list of others."

    The original aim of the Iraq war was to find WMD's.

    "We could not let his wasteland of a nation become a haven for terrorist, and possibly even use his weapons and support to take action against our country."

    There is much more terrorism in Iraq under America than there ever was under Saddam. The country is NOW a breeding ground for terrorism. Plus Saddam was never ever a threat to America. He barely had any weapons! They were using guns about 20 years old!

    "So we went in a removed him, much to the delight of pretty much the entire world."

    Much to the disgust of much of the world, which is why the coalistion consisted of USA, Britain and barely anyone else.
    "I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)

    "Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)

    --Ed

    "Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)

    --Ed

  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    NCfan wrote:
    "He had started 4 regional wars, violated dozens of UN resolutions among a long list of others."

    TWO WORDS: Is Rael :cool:

    Invade invade :eek:
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
  • billpjbillbillpjbill Posts: 15
    There Is No Winning In A War! Period! Young Americans Are Dying Needlessly! Bring Them Home Please!
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NCfan wrote:
    Oh there is no doubt that our beliefs are totally different. I have been raised in a country that has tought me that it can do no wrong, no more than you and others have been raised in a country that has taught you to envy and spite the U.S., just for the sake of enjoying the top dog stumbe every now and then.

    What an uneducated statement from you given the political/social turmoil the U.S. has experienced just in the last 50 years.

    We have impeached two presidents, suffered through watergate, Vietnam, the civil rights movement and other cultural revolutions. I have no problem, as most Americans do not accepting responsibility for the mistakes and problems my country has created - which are many, MANY.

    I would say America is the most self-critical country on the planet, much to the contrary of what you think.

    My advice to you is to try and step away from your sterotypes. You have completely miss-judged me, as I can only assume you do of every American. I would also suggest that you check where you get your facts from. That web site is a joke.

    In short, open your eyes a bit!

    Thank you for the advice my friend. However, you seem to be a bit uptight and confused today. You say that I've been raised in a country that has taught me to envy and spite the U.S? Can you just explain how it's possible to envy and spite a country at the same time?
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NCfan wrote:
    Mistakes like what, Iraq? I don't think that was mistake. I'm glad we are there, and I believe history will prove us right.

    Why don't you cut me some slack? It's obvious that I'm not some right-wing idealouge. Just becuase i don't agree with you doesn't mean you have to sterotype me as something I'm not.

    You are absolutely correct on this point. The invasion of Iraq wasn't a mistake. It was a deliberate, illegal act of state terrorism against a soveriegn nation with the aim of stealing it's natural resources, and cementing it's influence in an unstable oil rich region. Do not allow Bush or Blair to fool you when they claim that mistakes were made. The only mistake they made was in believing that the people of that country would welcome them with open arms. You'd think they would have learnt something from Vietnam.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    NCfan wrote:
    Feel free to disagree, I'm sure you will. Let me just say that I'm stating my beliefs... you don't have to agree with me.

    In my opinion, each country has a right to rule in a way they see fit. Not every country has to be a democracy as long as they can coexist in a peaceful way with others and not abuse their citizens. .

    superb, agree.
    NCfan wrote:
    But Iraq under Saddam clearly didn't fit this mold. He had started 4 regional wars, violated dozens of UN resolutions among a long list of others. .

    True, like MANY other country that we CHOOSE not to help. There's reasons why Iraq was invade and not Sudan, Nigeria or North Korea, it was an economic/imperialist choice. Now the fact that Saddam is out of the President seat is a good thing i think, the means taken to achieve that are somehow questionnable, and the populations were lied to when the decision to invade Iraq was to be taken, they were talking about terrorism and WMD, democracy and Saddam were not even priorities, they became priorities in the speeches when the other "reasons" were being discredit.
    NCfan wrote:
    His nation had essentially turned into a rouge state that was a threat to the security of other democracies in the world. Iraq is strategically situated in the heart of the Middle East, a region that is spawning and supporting Islamic terrorist activities against the US and other Western nations. We could not let his wasteland of a nation become a haven for terrorist, and possibly even use his weapons and support to take action against our country.


    Iraq was not a treat to the world, that's not true, a rogue state doesn't mean they're a treat to the world. They were a rogue state with UN inspector inside the country, at the moment George Bush declare war.

    Iraq is situated in the middle east and they were not supporting islamic terrorist activities against the USA, Al quaida entered Iraq once Saddam was thrown out.
    NCfan wrote:
    So we went in a removed him, much to the delight of pretty much the entire world. So the question remains, what to do for a new government.

    The obvious answer to to attempt to install a democracy. If it doesn't work, then there is nothing America can do but try. If people want to live under Taliban-like dictators and therocrats, then ultimately there is nothing anyone can do.

    But I believe the vast majority of Iraqis would like to give democracy a chance. I believe that a relatively small percentage of the population, in addition to foreign insurgents are responsible for 90% of the violence in Iraq.

    I think if we can just defeat the insurgency then a stable government will emerge...

    So sue me for thinking this way, I realize I'm a bastard in your eyes for my beliefs.

    Same problem as before, the reason was not to remove Saddam, it was to take control of the area (but the public one was Iraq is a treat to the world). That's why almost EVERY country refuse to participate in this illegal invasion (don't forget that little fact), even if Saddam was dictator. Iraq and Saddam were chosen because of their geographical advantages and again, it's the people of Iraq who suffered of this overthrown. Now they have a "democracy" that is obviously not working since they haven't take control yet, security is as low as when Saddam was in power but the treatment are held by a foreign army (which gives you more ennemies) and i'm really concerned about the fact that democracy was forced to them, and they did not fight for it or choose to fight for their freedom, so it can go back to the previous situation really quick, what they need is a revolution from inside, anyway different topic.

    So to get back to the yes or no topic, no, i don't want to USA to LOSE this war, i want the USA to withdraw and give the authority to another entity, that will take charge and try to correct the situation, clearly the USA already failed to securize this country and rebuilding seem to be an illusion, so now that the USA got their part of the cake and WIN their war when they invade Iraq and arrest Saddam, now it's time to admit the USA govt. failure and move on to different problem in this world (Bin Laden?), and leave someone else take charge in Iraq.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NCfan wrote:
    Again... what's up with the fucking sterotyping??? I don't think America is the "end all be all". And I DON"T think that we are the envy of the world.

    I made a statement that is 100% true, however. And that is people and countries purposely check, impede and heckle the U.S. for pure spite. I'm not saying you do it, but why do you have a problem admiting that it is a widespread phenomenon?

    Glad to know you pity us... our population is no more ignorant than yours or anybody ele's. Let's know turn this into a pissing match. I certainly wasn't taking it there.

    One other thing that you need to understand: I do not dislike America. You should realise that there is a difference between America and the American government and those who pull the strings in youir country - i.e, the big corporations. If you suspect I hate America then pop round my house and check out my book, music, and film collections. Nobody is criticising America purely out of spite. The fact is your government is being criticized for being a bunch of greedy war mongers. Nobody else in the world would care what kind of Nazis were running your country if you only managed to stay where you are and stopped fucking with us. But your troops are constantly being sent to places where they are not welcome, and the greedy hands of the rich and powerful in your country seem to constantly be trying to paint every corner of the globe with the stars and stripes. The fact is, I hate Tony Blair as much as I hate George Bush. Bush is just the bigger bully in the playground and so he's bound to attract more attention.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • juan lesterjuan lester Posts: 321
    the defintion of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
    Ben Franklin said that. wish he were around now to think us out of this giant fucking mess. It's just insane.
    Stay the course. Stay the course.
    Cluster Bombs? Children amputees? Torture? Beheadings? CIA trained bad guys? Armor piercing depleted uranium? No-bid government contracts? Soaring haliburton stocks? What the fuck does any of this have to do with God? Personally, i don't think Jesus would bomb anyone, but i could be wrong.

    "with a big ol' lie
    and a flag and a pie
    and a bomb and bible
    most folks are liable
    to buy any line
    anyplace anytime" - zappa

    "i'm a really sound sleeper. a pinch won't wake me up. somebody please shoot me in the face" -colbert
    uke can save the world
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