maybe you're one of those people who don't have any feelings. you surely aren't an attorney because you'd know that his reaction was based on what he saw and what he believed. he didn't have to wait and see if she was being raped nor did he have to wait for clairification. our justice system is based on an imaginary reasonable person. that person is represented by 12 jurors. decisions are based on what that imaginary reasonable person whould do; or how they would have reacted.
the decision was that a reasonable person would have reacted just as he did.
the civil case against him was thrown out even though the guy was paralysed. he acted appropriately to the situation.
To be honest OLS I've already got a plan for that should it happen and I probably won't need a gun.
We have plenty of illegal guns and plenty of organized crime. Specially here in Melbourne. Our Gangland murders are starting to rival Chicagee in the 20s!
most of america in the 1920's believed we were now a civilized society and didn't need guns. gun ownership after WWI dropped dramatically. it was then the criminals took over.
most of america in the 1920's believed we were now a civilized society and didn't need guns. gun ownership after WWI dropped dramatically. it was then the criminals took over.
Well the Gangland fellas here are more interested in taking each other out than the rest of the general population. Not to mention that most of them have been locked up now anyway.
Prohibition probably had a lot to do with the environment that developed in Chicago in the 20s too.
maybe you're one of those people who don't have any feelings. you surely aren't an attorney because you'd know that his reaction was based on what he saw and what he believed. he didn't have to wait and see if she was being raped nor did he have to wait for clairification. our justice system is based on an imaginary reasonable person. that person is represented by 12 jurors. decisions are based on what that imaginary reasonable person whould do; or how they would have reacted.
the decision was that a reasonable person would have reacted just as he did.
the civil case against him was thrown out even though the guy was paralysed. he acted appropriately to the situation.
One of my cousins hid in a closet when he thought his girlfriend of 11 years was cheating on him. He caught her in the act, busted through the closest, and beat the shit out of the guy (didn't paralyze him though). I guess he should have claimed that he thought she was being raped and he would have gotten off with a slap on the wrist. What was the first clue to your buddy that she wasn't in fact being raped? When she told him to stop beating on her "rapist" or prior to his discovery when she was calling out in ectasy?
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
One of my cousins hid in a closet when he thought his girlfriend of 11 years was cheating on him. He caught her in the act, busted through the closest, and beat the shit out of the guy (didn't paralyze him though). I guess he should have claimed that he thought she was being raped and he would have gotten off with a slap on the wrist. What was the first clue to your buddy that she wasn't in fact being raped? When she told him to stop beating on her "rapist" or prior to his discovery when she was calling out in ectasy?
Did the guy sue your cousin for beating the hell out of him? What happened?
Did the guy sue your cousin for beating the hell out of him? What happened?
I know he served some time. I'm not sure if he was sued or not. This cousin of mine and I aren't very close. He's quite the hothead. I remember another incident where he beat up a guy who was trying to pick him up in a bar. My cousin first explained to him that he wasn't gay. The guy persisted, and my cousin beat the shit out of him and was arrested again. My cousin is quite the idiot.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
One of my cousins hid in a closet when he thought his girlfriend of 11 years was cheating on him. He caught her in the act, busted through the closest, and beat the shit out of the guy (didn't paralyze him though). I guess he should have claimed that he thought she was being raped and he would have gotten off with a slap on the wrist. What was the first clue to your buddy that she wasn't in fact being raped? When she told him to stop beating on her "rapist" or prior to his discovery when she was calling out in ectasy?
that's clearly premeditated. my friend had no clue. 2 weeks prior i was their daughters Godfather (christening) and 2 days prior he showed me an expensive watch she bought him. our families were close enough that we'd stay at eachothers houses.
i'm not sure you've ever seen a fight. although she ran out of the room; greg said all he heard was bones and teeth breaking. he wasn't charged with injuring the police because they didn't identify themselves. she let them in and they ran into the bedroom. greg's rage was centered on killing the guy (bill) and thus wasn't mentally aware of what was going on around him. bill was badly deformed.
I know he served some time. I'm not sure if he was sued or not. This cousin of mine and I aren't very close. He's quite the hothead. I remember another incident where he beat up a guy who was trying to pick him up in a bar. My cousin first explained to him that he wasn't gay. The guy persisted, and my cousin beat the shit out of him and was arrested again. My cousin is quite the idiot.
he should have used the "crime of passion" defence. unless he had a history of violence. greg didn't even have a parking ticket against him.
he should have used the "crime of passion" defence. unless he had a history of violence. greg didn't even have a parking ticket against him.
It should be added that my cousin is a veteran of the first Iraq war. Not that should excuse his behavior, but I know it messed up his head pretty bad.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
that's clearly premeditated. my friend had no clue. 2 weeks prior i was their daughters Godfather (christening) and 2 days prior he showed me an expensive watch she bought him. our families were close enough that we'd stay at eachothers houses.
i'm not sure you've ever seen a fight. although she ran out of the room; greg said all he heard was bones and teeth breaking. he wasn't charged with injuring the police because they didn't identify themselves. she let them in and they ran into the bedroom. greg's rage was centered on killing the guy (bill) and thus wasn't mentally aware of what was going on around him. bill was badly deformed.
I know that there is something in the law that allows for this to happen. I don't claim to be extremely educated in the ways of the law, but I did have to take a business law course in college and I know for a fact we covered a case where there were two roomates. One roomate had an old buddy surprise visit him (normally they would mock beat each other up whenever they got together). Well, it just so happens that old buddy and roomie were doing just that when the other roomate who didn't know old buddy heard the commotion, saw what was going on, and then proceeded to beat old buddy dead with a baseball bat. He wasn't convicted of anything as he was fearing for the safety of his roomate and sincerly thought it was a criminal who was really beating up his roomate.
I'm sure he felt like shit for a very long time, though.
It should be added that my cousin is a veteran of the first Iraq war. Not that should excuse his behavior, but I know it messed up his head pretty bad.
That's a very valid reason. I'm not sure I believe in excuses. In that everyone has a reason for their motivation to do something it's just that other people may not understand the validity of the reasoning.
I know that there is something in the law that allows for this to happen. I don't claim to be extremely educated in the ways of the law, but I did have to take a business law course in college and I know for a fact we covered a case where there were two roomates. One roomate had an old buddy surprise visit him (normally they would mock beat each other up whenever they got together). Well, it just so happens that old buddy and roomie were doing just that when the other roomate who didn't know old buddy heard the commotion, saw what was going on, and then proceeded to beat old buddy dead with a baseball bat. He wasn't convicted of anything as he was fearing for the safety of his roomate and sincerly thought it was a criminal who was really beating up his roomate.
I'm sure he felt like shit for a very long time, though.
it does happen. and he couldn't be sued for wrongful death because it wasn't wrongful. it was an honest mistake and that "reasonable" person would have acted the same.
i'm sure it will haunt him the rest of his life. the reason police have you face away is in case they have to shoot you. for many; if you look someone in the eyes; and kill them; they see those eyes in their sleep. sounds crazy but it happens.
that's clearly premeditated. my friend had no clue. 2 weeks prior i was their daughters Godfather (christening) and 2 days prior he showed me an expensive watch she bought him. our families were close enough that we'd stay at eachothers houses.
i'm not sure you've ever seen a fight. although she ran out of the room; greg said all he heard was bones and teeth breaking. he wasn't charged with injuring the police because they didn't identify themselves. she let them in and they ran into the bedroom. greg's rage was centered on killing the guy (bill) and thus wasn't mentally aware of what was going on around him. bill was badly deformed.
He's already said she was cheating. Did you miss it?
apparently. becos all he has offered is rationalizations for how he got off the hook and what his buddy supposedly believed. im curious what was actually happening.
He's already said she was cheating. Did you miss it?
i don't know for sure love. i assumed it because she didn't show up in court. after the incident; i never saw her again. when i'd see my God-daughter; she'd have someone else drop her off. greg never really knew either.
it's actually my fault. greg worked for me and i gave him the afternoon off to make his wife a special dinner for her birthday. she was suppose to be at work and he got home 3 or 4 hours early. i saw bill a few times after that but i never talked to him. someone told me he wished that greg had killed him. he really got messed up. i guess there are some things worse than death.
i don't know for sure love. i assumed it because she didn't show up in court. after the incident; i never saw her again. when i'd see my God-daughter; she'd have someone else drop her off. greg never really knew either.
it's actually my fault. greg worked for me and i gave him the afternoon off to make his wife a special dinner for her birthday. she was suppose to be at work and he got home 3 or 4 hours early. i saw bill a few times after that but i never talked to him. someone told me he wished that greg had killed him. he really got messed up. i guess there are some things worse than death.
so let me get this straight. these burglars take a few things from someone's house and nobody gets hurt, and they deserve to die at joe horn's hands. your friend cripples an innocent man for life in an assault and battery, and he doesn't even deserve an hour in jail. do i have that correct?
apparently. becos all he has offered is rationalizations for how he got off the hook and what his buddy supposedly believed. im curious what was actually happening.
Well it seems to me that you have a reading comprehension problem when it comes to his posts in this thread because I'm not having any difficulty grasping what he's saying. Just an observation. You don't think you are viewing it with preconcieved notions in your head? I'm just finding it interesting that you don't seem to be understanding what he's said at all. And you're the lawyer to be.
i don't know for sure love. i assumed it because she didn't show up in court. after the incident; i never saw her again. when i'd see my God-daughter; she'd have someone else drop her off. greg never really knew either.
it's actually my fault. greg worked for me and i gave him the afternoon off to make his wife a special dinner for her birthday. she was suppose to be at work and he got home 3 or 4 hours early. i saw bill a few times after that but i never talked to him. someone told me he wished that greg had killed him. he really got messed up. i guess there are some things worse than death.
Well I don't expect you to know for sure. The people involved probably don't even know for sure. But your initial post said that she was cheating and that Greg came home and attacked Bill because "he thought she was being raped" so it pretty much said to me that he had acting out of temporary insanity. Which seems to have been bore out by what you explained happened next. Least that's how I took what you said anyway. I don't know I just wasn't having any trouble following what you meant and for some reason ss was. It's no biggy.
And the whole thing sounds truly horrible for all of them regardless of their motivations.
Well it seems to me that you have a reading comprehension problem when it comes to his posts in this thread because I'm not having any difficulty grasping what he's saying. Just an observation. You don't think you are viewing it with preconcieved notions in your head? I'm just finding it interesting that you don't seem to be understanding what he's said at all. And you're the lawyer to be.
no, im trying to get him to give me a straight answer instead of his wiggling. it's standard legal questioning practice. im surprised he doesnt recognize it. being the invincible trial attorney he claims to be and all.
Well I don't expect you to know for sure. The people involved probably don't even know for sure. But your initial post said that she was cheating and that Greg came home and attacked Bill because "he thought she was being raped" so it pretty much said to me that he had acting out of temporary insanity. Which seems to have been bore out by what you explained happened next. Least that's how I took what you said anyway. I don't know I just wasn't having any trouble following what you meant and for some reason ss was. It's no biggy.
And the whole thing sounds truly horrible for all of them regardless of their motivations.
temporary insanity? oh how we will get on our knees and swallow anything said by our loved ones.
his buddy walked in, saw his wife balling another dude, and beat the shit out of the guy. period. anyone who believes his "i thought she was being raped" bullshit is either a fucking idiot, or has never had sex.
and this is my point. if you have broadly worded and flexible lethal force laws, you get this. you get prism (i like how none of you seem to have read or want to discuss her story) and her friend being shot and ols's buddy kicking the shit out of an innocent man becos he couldn't deliver in bed. why? becos such a law encourages people to shoot first and ask questions later. why bother to find out if she was actually being raped (like you couldn't tell by her moaning and wrapping her legs around him) or whether someone is actually stealing or whether there was actually a break-in, when all trigger-happy dirty harry wannabes like joe horn have to do is pull the trigger and tell the jury later that "i swear judge, i thought that fucking whore was being raped" and they're off the hook based on "reasonable belief" there was a crime or "temporary insanity" (aka hot-headed piece of shit loses control).
no, im trying to get him to give me a straight answer instead of his wiggling. it's standard legal questioning practice. im surprised he doesnt recognize it. being the invincible trial attorney he claims to be and all.
You're not in court now. And this isn't a trail. If you have a question or you don't understand then why don't you just ask nicely for clarification instead of hounding or insulting? I reckon if you were in court and you continued on in this vein the judge would find you in contempt anyway.
Should I just lodge "objection" every time you do it? Would that help?
no, im trying to get him to give me a straight answer instead of his wiggling. it's standard legal questioning practice. im surprised he doesnt recognize it. being the invincible trial attorney he claims to be and all.
Sometimes all you have to do is actually read what is said instead of asking direct questions...it seems like you are just trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
Needless to say it comes off as annoying and childish.
You're not in court now. And this isn't a trail. If you have a question or you don't understand then why don't you just ask nicely for clarification instead of hounding or insulting? I reckon if you were in court and you continued on in this vein the judge would find you in contempt anyway.
Should I just lodge "objection" every time you do it? Would that help?
no, the judge would hold ols in contempt if he did not answer my question with a yes or no.
Sometimes all you have to do is actually read what is said instead of asking direct questions...it seems like you are just trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
Needless to say it comes off as annoying and childish.
just trying to get him to admit that his buddy paralyzed a perfectly innocent man for life and injured several cops, yet he claims he does not deserve any jailtime becos somehow his crime was "justified." whereas a pair of two-bit house burglars deserve to die for their crimes becos that was the risk they took.
temporary insanity? oh how we will get on our knees and swallow anything said by our loved ones.
his buddy walked in, saw his wife balling another dude, and beat the shit out of the guy. period. anyone who believes his "i thought she was being raped" bullshit is either a fucking idiot, or has never had sex.
and this is my point. if you have broadly worded and flexible lethal force laws, you get this. you get prism (i like how none of you seem to have read or want to discuss her story) and her friend being shot and ols's buddy kicking the shit out of an innocent man becos he couldn't deliver in bed. why? becos such a law encourages people to shoot first and ask questions later. why bother to find out if she was actually being raped (like you couldn't tell by her moaning and wrapping her legs around him) or whether someone is actually stealing or whether there was actually a break-in, when all trigger-happy dirty harry wannabes like joe horn have to do is pull the trigger and tell the jury later that "i swear judge, i thought that fucking whore was being raped" and they're off the hook based on "reasonable belief" there was a crime or "temporary insanity" (aka hot-headed piece of shit loses control).
When having sex...it is my understanding that there is more than one positions and sometimes some of those positions are ones that are more easily conducted during rape. You have no idea how they were having sex so it is very possible that it could've looked like rape.
When having sex...it is my understanding that there is more than one positions and sometimes some of those positions are ones that are more easily conducted during rape. You have no idea how they were having sex so it is very possible that it could've looked like rape.
you've got to be joking. if you can't tell the difference between consensual sex and rape, you are doing something wrong. and in any case, how does this overcome the fact that somebody is PARALYZED becos he was wrong? his buddy says "oops, my bad!" and it's all supposed to be fine?
just trying to get him to admit that his buddy paralyzed a perfectly innocent man for life and injured several cops, yet he claims he does not deserve any jailtime becos somehow his crime was "justified." whereas a pair of two-bit house burglars deserve to die for their crimes becos that was the risk they took.
Yeah, I see what you are trying to do and I'm sure he does too, but you'll be hard pressed to actually get him to admit that since it appears he does not feel that way.
Comments
was she being raped?
most of america in the 1920's believed we were now a civilized society and didn't need guns. gun ownership after WWI dropped dramatically. it was then the criminals took over.
Well the Gangland fellas here are more interested in taking each other out than the rest of the general population. Not to mention that most of them have been locked up now anyway.
Prohibition probably had a lot to do with the environment that developed in Chicago in the 20s too.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
One of my cousins hid in a closet when he thought his girlfriend of 11 years was cheating on him. He caught her in the act, busted through the closest, and beat the shit out of the guy (didn't paralyze him though). I guess he should have claimed that he thought she was being raped and he would have gotten off with a slap on the wrist. What was the first clue to your buddy that she wasn't in fact being raped? When she told him to stop beating on her "rapist" or prior to his discovery when she was calling out in ectasy?
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
Did the guy sue your cousin for beating the hell out of him? What happened?
I know he served some time. I'm not sure if he was sued or not. This cousin of mine and I aren't very close. He's quite the hothead. I remember another incident where he beat up a guy who was trying to pick him up in a bar. My cousin first explained to him that he wasn't gay. The guy persisted, and my cousin beat the shit out of him and was arrested again. My cousin is quite the idiot.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
that's clearly premeditated. my friend had no clue. 2 weeks prior i was their daughters Godfather (christening) and 2 days prior he showed me an expensive watch she bought him. our families were close enough that we'd stay at eachothers houses.
i'm not sure you've ever seen a fight. although she ran out of the room; greg said all he heard was bones and teeth breaking. he wasn't charged with injuring the police because they didn't identify themselves. she let them in and they ran into the bedroom. greg's rage was centered on killing the guy (bill) and thus wasn't mentally aware of what was going on around him. bill was badly deformed.
he should have used the "crime of passion" defence. unless he had a history of violence. greg didn't even have a parking ticket against him.
It should be added that my cousin is a veteran of the first Iraq war. Not that should excuse his behavior, but I know it messed up his head pretty bad.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
I know that there is something in the law that allows for this to happen. I don't claim to be extremely educated in the ways of the law, but I did have to take a business law course in college and I know for a fact we covered a case where there were two roomates. One roomate had an old buddy surprise visit him (normally they would mock beat each other up whenever they got together). Well, it just so happens that old buddy and roomie were doing just that when the other roomate who didn't know old buddy heard the commotion, saw what was going on, and then proceeded to beat old buddy dead with a baseball bat. He wasn't convicted of anything as he was fearing for the safety of his roomate and sincerly thought it was a criminal who was really beating up his roomate.
I'm sure he felt like shit for a very long time, though.
That's a very valid reason. I'm not sure I believe in excuses. In that everyone has a reason for their motivation to do something it's just that other people may not understand the validity of the reasoning.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
it does happen. and he couldn't be sued for wrongful death because it wasn't wrongful. it was an honest mistake and that "reasonable" person would have acted the same.
i'm sure it will haunt him the rest of his life. the reason police have you face away is in case they have to shoot you. for many; if you look someone in the eyes; and kill them; they see those eyes in their sleep. sounds crazy but it happens.
was she being raped?
it wasn't relevent to the case. do you have a learning disorder?
did i say it was relevant to the case? was she raped? or cheating?
He's already said she was cheating. Did you miss it?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
apparently. becos all he has offered is rationalizations for how he got off the hook and what his buddy supposedly believed. im curious what was actually happening.
i don't know for sure love. i assumed it because she didn't show up in court. after the incident; i never saw her again. when i'd see my God-daughter; she'd have someone else drop her off. greg never really knew either.
it's actually my fault. greg worked for me and i gave him the afternoon off to make his wife a special dinner for her birthday. she was suppose to be at work and he got home 3 or 4 hours early. i saw bill a few times after that but i never talked to him. someone told me he wished that greg had killed him. he really got messed up. i guess there are some things worse than death.
so let me get this straight. these burglars take a few things from someone's house and nobody gets hurt, and they deserve to die at joe horn's hands. your friend cripples an innocent man for life in an assault and battery, and he doesn't even deserve an hour in jail. do i have that correct?
Well it seems to me that you have a reading comprehension problem when it comes to his posts in this thread because I'm not having any difficulty grasping what he's saying. Just an observation. You don't think you are viewing it with preconcieved notions in your head? I'm just finding it interesting that you don't seem to be understanding what he's said at all. And you're the lawyer to be.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well I don't expect you to know for sure.
And the whole thing sounds truly horrible for all of them regardless of their motivations.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
no, im trying to get him to give me a straight answer instead of his wiggling. it's standard legal questioning practice. im surprised he doesnt recognize it. being the invincible trial attorney he claims to be and all.
temporary insanity? oh how we will get on our knees and swallow anything said by our loved ones.
his buddy walked in, saw his wife balling another dude, and beat the shit out of the guy. period. anyone who believes his "i thought she was being raped" bullshit is either a fucking idiot, or has never had sex.
and this is my point. if you have broadly worded and flexible lethal force laws, you get this. you get prism (i like how none of you seem to have read or want to discuss her story) and her friend being shot and ols's buddy kicking the shit out of an innocent man becos he couldn't deliver in bed. why? becos such a law encourages people to shoot first and ask questions later. why bother to find out if she was actually being raped (like you couldn't tell by her moaning and wrapping her legs around him) or whether someone is actually stealing or whether there was actually a break-in, when all trigger-happy dirty harry wannabes like joe horn have to do is pull the trigger and tell the jury later that "i swear judge, i thought that fucking whore was being raped" and they're off the hook based on "reasonable belief" there was a crime or "temporary insanity" (aka hot-headed piece of shit loses control).
You're not in court now. And this isn't a trail. If you have a question or you don't understand then why don't you just ask nicely for clarification instead of hounding or insulting? I reckon if you were in court and you continued on in this vein the judge would find you in contempt anyway.
Should I just lodge "objection" every time you do it? Would that help?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Sometimes all you have to do is actually read what is said instead of asking direct questions...it seems like you are just trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
Needless to say it comes off as annoying and childish.
no, the judge would hold ols in contempt if he did not answer my question with a yes or no.
just trying to get him to admit that his buddy paralyzed a perfectly innocent man for life and injured several cops, yet he claims he does not deserve any jailtime becos somehow his crime was "justified." whereas a pair of two-bit house burglars deserve to die for their crimes becos that was the risk they took.
When having sex...it is my understanding that there is more than one positions and sometimes some of those positions are ones that are more easily conducted during rape. You have no idea how they were having sex so it is very possible that it could've looked like rape.
you've got to be joking. if you can't tell the difference between consensual sex and rape, you are doing something wrong. and in any case, how does this overcome the fact that somebody is PARALYZED becos he was wrong? his buddy says "oops, my bad!" and it's all supposed to be fine?
Yeah, I see what you are trying to do and I'm sure he does too, but you'll be hard pressed to actually get him to admit that since it appears he does not feel that way.