The country has numerous problems, from obesity to the use of gateway drugs. Making things illegal still won't stop those determined to use. As an educator, I cringe at the thought of some kid sparking up that first joint, because I've seen the damage that prolonged "casual" drug use causes. The bottom line: if you are a parent, do you want to see a joint in the hand of your 13 year old? I know I don't ever want to see that, and I can think for my self, without help or guidance.
The truth of the bottom line: there are a lot of 13-year-olds that probably have a joint in their hand right this second................You know what the funny thing is? It's probably easier for that 13-year-old to get it than it is for a 34 year old. Children with developing and very vulnurable brains should never do mind altering drugs, and most 13-year-olds know that. Just the same, they know that they shouldn't be drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, etc. Truthfully, I'd rather see them with a joint than a bottle of rum. We have been brought up to "fear the reefer", while in many places it's almost accaptable for kids to drink alcohol, which may I add, is a much deadlier drug. Consentual adults, in my opinion, should be able to legally buy and smoke marijuana, just as they do with alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Not to mention, if these consentual adults were able to have as much marijuana as they wanted to buy, a lot of pot smokers might even switch to just drinking it in tea, eating it in healthy foods, etc; methods that are 99% safe, and healthy for that matter. Other consentual adults could choose not to have anything to do with it (except for benifiting from taxing it)..............and all of them could make up their house rules about it for their children. I wasn't allowed to drink when I was 13, were you?
One other thought that just popped into my head: Would you rather a 13-year-old get caught steeling a marijuana cigarette out of his father's coat pocket, or not get caught buying it from some drug dealer in a bad neighborhood that may have laced it with cocaine for that matter? People are responsible for their children and good parents keep track of where their children are and who they hang out with, and teach them to be responsible.
Or not get caught buying it from some drug dealer in a bad neighborhood that may have laced it with cocaine for that matter?
lol...that ain't never happened unless you pay extra up front, and it's a selling feature.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The truth of the bottom line: there are a lot of 13-year-olds that probably have a joint in their hand right this second................You know what the funny thing is? It's probably easier for that 13-year-old to get it than it is for a 34 year old. Children with developing and very vulnurable brains should never do mind altering drugs, and most 13-year-olds know that. Just the same, they know that they shouldn't be drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, etc. Truthfully, I'd rather see them with a joint than a bottle of rum. We have been brought up to "fear the reefer", while in many places it's almost accaptable for kids to drink alcohol, which may I add, is a much deadlier drug. Consentual adults, in my opinion, should be able to legally buy and smoke marijuana, just as they do with alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Not to mention, if these consentual adults were able to have as much marijuana as they wanted to buy, a lot of pot smokers might even switch to just drinking it in tea, eating it in healthy foods, etc; methods that are 99% safe, and healthy for that matter. Other consentual adults could choose not to have anything to do with it (except for benifiting from taxing it)..............and all of them could make up their house rules about it for their children. I wasn't allowed to drink when I was 13, were you?
One other thought that just popped into my head: Would you rather a 13-year-old get caught steeling a marijuana cigarette out of his father's coat pocket, or not get caught buying it from some drug dealer in a bad neighborhood that may have laced it with cocaine for that matter? People are responsible for their children and good parents keep track of where their children are and who they hang out with, and teach them to be responsible.
I agree that underaged kids shouldn't be smoking, drinking (though I think 21 is too old, make it 18 or 16) ...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I agree that underaged kids shouldn't be smoking, drinking (though I think 21 is too old, make it 18 or 16) ...
I am tempted to agree with you, but after reading a few studies about brain development and how alcohol and other drugs effect it, you really shouldn't partake on a regular basis until after the age of 25, lol....................yeah right, I couldn't even type that with a straight face :P (although there is a lot of truth to that)
This is weird. I noticed than in this debate, the most recurring argument is "alcohol is more dangerous, yet it's legal, so why pot wouldn't?"
This means something like "let's legalize anything that fucks your brain, even slightly, less than alcohol."
Plus, if alcohol is to be compared to MaryJane, as far as mortality is concerned, well you have to consider the fact that alcohol IS legal. Meaning that there's a lot more use of it. So, of course, in the end, people die more often because of alcohol than the occasional pot.
And if my opinion is of any interrest, As an occasional alcoholic and potsmoker, I'm in favor of legalisation. It 's proven to reduce criminality.
Funny (well at least to me) fact : many kingdoms (often thought of as conservative) have authorised it in Europe (Spain, Holland, Belgium).
"Not only is there no God, but try getting a plumber on weekends" - Woody ALLEN
Plus, if alcohol is to be compared to MaryJane, as far as mortality is concerned, well you have to consider the fact that alcohol IS legal. Meaning that there's a lot more use of it. So, of course, in the end, people die more often because of alcohol than the occasional pot.
Not one fatality has been recorded in all of history....that's a lot of smoking...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Not one? I'd like to know your source. Cause I have a friend who has a cancer due to his smoking and he's not gonna make it. Guess he's gonna enter the guiness book of records. (He only smoked weed).
"Not only is there no God, but try getting a plumber on weekends" - Woody ALLEN
Not one? I'd like to know your source. Cause I have a friend who has a cancer due to his smoking and he's not gonna make it. Guess he's gonna enter the guiness book of records. (He only smoked weed).
Oh you're talking life long?... I'm just talking about in one sitting as in consumption of the drug itself.
I'm assuming it's lung cancer. Did your friend ever work in a smoke filled place?
People have gotten lung cancer and never smoked anything before.
There are some new studies out that suggest that say the THC kills aging cells before they can become cancerous.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I haven't read through the whole thread so I apologize if this has been brought up before. The only reason pot is illegal is because pharmaceutical and alcohol companies pay politicians a lot of money to keep it that way. There are so many legal drugs that are worse. Ambien kicks my ass way worse than pot ever could. That shit makes everything on my TV in 3D and according to my wife I woke her up at 2am one night for a conjugal visit and I don't remember any of it. If Pfizer can figure out a way to emulate pot in a pill form for $10 each instead of you growing it in your backyard for free it will be legalized.
If Pfizer can figure out a way to emulate pot in a pill form for $10 each instead of you growing it in your backyard for free it will be legalized.
Well you see they can make a pill already (and very easily), but because it's so simple to grow yourself (i.e. just add water), people would argue like mad for the legalization of it the moment the first pill was put to market, the argument would then be be unstoppable, and it would have to be legalized.
And they lose money...all the while people lose their entire lives in jail.
greedy rotten ______!!
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
there are way too many damn posts here for me to read them all, so if i mention things already posted, i apologize. the simple fact that alcohol kills over 35,000 people per year and is still a legal substance should EASILY equivocate to marijuana being a legal substance since it killed a grand total of...hang on, let me check my figures....0 people last year. the only people who suffer and die as a consequence of marijuana are people who become victims of the illegal, underground world that is created through its illegalization.
as far as the gateway drug theory goes, most hard drug users DO start with a mellower drug like marijuana, but most people who use hard drugs are also people with a drug seeking personality, and will find their way to harder drugs regardless of what they started on.
just take a drugs in society class taught by someone with some authentic intelligence, and get the ignorance over with.
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
I laugh when people comment about how if drugs were legal, they would use it responsibly. OK..lets prove how wrong you really are. Alcohol has been mentioned several times here. And look how that is out of control. Secondly and even more pervasive is the use of the legalized drug TOBACCO. Even with disclaimers and factual data supporting how unhealthy it's use is, "people" are still ignorant enough to smoke and get addicted. So obviously then, many of you DO need "THEM" to come in and regulate these things for you......"you" cannot control yourselves.
The point of all this goes back to a previous poster (sorry don't want to read through for your name) that pot is a gateway drug, just as tobacco and alcohol are gateway drugs. They lead to bigger and better things. Studies abound on this fact. (RAND, University of Pitt, Karolina, APA, NIDA etc)
Makes much more sense, to live in the present tense.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
The point of all this goes back to a previous poster (sorry don't want to read through for your name) that pot is a gateway drug, just as tobacco and alcohol are gateway drugs. They lead to bigger and better things. Studies abound on this fact. (RAND, University of Pitt, Karolina, APA, NIDA etc)
say a study was lucky enough to determine that 100% of heroin or cocaine or meth users started with smoking pot; that doesn't even come CLOSE to proving or determining that any significantly large percentage of people who smoke pot will graduate to a heavier drug.
correlation is not causation. this is like saying that just because someone who is obese loves eating cake, someone who loves eating cake will become obese...
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
I laugh when people comment about how if drugs were legal, they would use it responsibly. OK..lets prove how wrong you really are. Alcohol has been mentioned several times here. And look how that is out of control. Secondly and even more pervasive is the use of the legalized drug TOBACCO. Even with disclaimers and factual data supporting how unhealthy it's use is, "people" are still ignorant enough to smoke and get addicted. So obviously then, many of you DO need "THEM" to come in and regulate these things for you......"you" cannot control yourselves.
The point of all this goes back to a previous poster (sorry don't want to read through for your name) that pot is a gateway drug, just as tobacco and alcohol are gateway drugs. They lead to bigger and better things. Studies abound on this fact. (RAND, University of Pitt, Karolina, APA, NIDA etc)
Maybe "you" need "THEM" to control these things for you, but "I" do not. I feel like I am responsible enough to decide what I eat, drink, wash with, watch on TV, read on the internet, or smoke. Just because "you" are a sheep, doesn't overweigh the fact that there are far more pros than cons to legalizing marijuana. And I have read all of your studies about this "gateway" phenominon..........Again, you must have no idea what "corrolation" even means. Users of harder drugs have probably lead a pretty self-destructive life to begin with. There is probably a stronger corrolation with environments that they grew up in, the role models they had, their abusive parents, depression, tragic events, etc, but all of that must have been caused by pot too, huh? There has been such a stigma placed on weed, and some people lack the open-mindedness to be able to explore those possibilities.........which is pretty sad, actually. If you could only see the harm that prohibition has caused vs. the help..................but if you continue to close your eyes and live in a box, that's your choice......This is America, land of the........well, it's hard to say free.........ignorant maybe.
Maybe "you" need "THEM" to control these things for you, but "I" do not. I feel like I am responsible enough to decide what I eat, drink, wash with, watch on TV, read on the internet, or smoke. Just because "you" are a sheep, doesn't overweigh the fact that there are far more pros than cons to legalizing marijuana. And I have read all of your studies about this "gateway" phenominon..........Again, you must have no idea what "corrolation" even means. Users of harder drugs have probably lead a pretty self-destructive life to begin with. There is probably a stronger corrolation with environments that they grew up in, the role models they had, their abusive parents, depression, tragic events, etc, but all of that must have been caused by pot too, huh? There has been such a stigma placed on weed, and some people lack the open-mindedness to be able to explore those possibilities.........which is pretty sad, actually. If you could only see the harm that prohibition has caused vs. the help..................but if you continue to close your eyes and live in a box, that's your choice......This is America, land of the........well, it's hard to say free.........ignorant maybe.
amen
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
1. False- Has alcohol caused a drunken wife-beating culture, or is it just within a few select populations, and what are the other causes of that said culture?
2. Depends on where you work..........I bet a graphic designer would do pretty well.
3. Isn't it illegal to drive when intoxicated by anything? That doesn't make alcohol illegal to buy and sell, does it?
4. Studies have shown that even the smallest decisions made by "stoned" individuals are actually analized more thoroughly than by the un-"stoned".
5. I bet I could show a stronger corrolation of Heroin users that drink milk than ones that have tried marijuana.............maybe milk is a gateway liquid. Hard drug users have tried a lot of shit and other life events usually lead to them using what they use.
The main problem with marijuana is that it's too dificult to get ahold of........................I'm willing to bet that border violence would be reduced if people were able to grow it in their backyard.
1. Not the point, alcohol gets everyone drunk..... weed makes you lethargic. FACT
2. The graphic designer might do well, if he could be bothered doing any work.....
3. The argument isn't about legalities..... but yes, you are right. Still, it is dangerous to drive when stoned, the discussion is about weed, why make comparisons to alcohol.
4. Ah, studies...... link?
5. Milk helps toughen bones and provides cacium which is handy, so if it is a gateway liquid it is a good thing....... inhaling smoke into previously lovely, pink, fresh lungs isn't so good.
- EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0025
- PJ avoid me like the plague
So obviously then, many of you DO need "THEM" to come in and regulate these things for you......"you" cannot control yourselves.
You know, for some reason I don't think this has anything to do with you thinking folks can't 'control' themselves, but your desire to control behavior you don't 'agree' with.
Anyway, back to the topic of the thread.............Although it is true that marijuana is perhaps a less dangerous drug than alcohol, ie, no toxicity level, it is dishonest to say there are no negative aspects. Regular marijuana smokers can experience the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers do. Marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke. Marijuana smokers usually inhale deeper and hold the smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers, so their lungs are exposed to those carcinogenic properties longer. Just keeping it real.................
That said, I think it should be decriminalized.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I laugh when people comment about how if drugs were legal, they would use it responsibly. OK..lets prove how wrong you really are. Alcohol has been mentioned several times here. And look how that is out of control. Secondly and even more pervasive is the use of the legalized drug TOBACCO. Even with disclaimers and factual data supporting how unhealthy it's use is, "people" are still ignorant enough to smoke and get addicted. So obviously then, many of you DO need "THEM" to come in and regulate these things for you......"you" cannot control yourselves.)
Alcohol and tobacco are both addictive substances, tobacco is HIGHLY addictive....marijuana is about as addictive as caffeine. Even if people do become addicted, why do they need THEM to come in and regulate things? Why do you give a shit if I smoke 40 joints a day?
The point of all this goes back to a previous poster (sorry don't want to read through for your name) that pot is a gateway drug, just as tobacco and alcohol are gateway drugs. They lead to bigger and better things. Studies abound on this fact. (RAND, University of Pitt, Karolina, APA, NIDA etc)
The whole theory of gateway ANYTHING is a propaganda tool. If I said that breathing leads to death, could you honestly refute that? No.
The whole theory of gateway ANYTHING is a propaganda tool. If I said that breathing leads to death, could you honestly refute that? No.
There is a clear psychological principle that is widely recognized: The foot in the door principle. It's similar to the slippery slope.
The "rule" says that once one is moving in a specific direction, one will keep moving in the same direction unless heroic effort to stop is undertaken. For example, if one says no to street drugs on all levels, they are not taking that first step down the slippery slope of drug use. And once one does take that first step, it's like a snowball moving in that direction gaining speed, momentum and power. As one progresses, one's consciousness, experience and lifestyle, including use of street-drugs, grows and expands, taking on progressively more and more prominance to an individual. And making it harder to extricate one's self from it.
This rule is not in dispute and can be seen in anything from letting a saleperson get their "foot in the door" with you for sales to embarking on one's first street-drug, cigarette, abuse of alcohol or any other toxic behaviour, etc.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
yes; many actual research methods guidelines would show that gateway drug studies provide heavily skewed results that carry very heavy results, but very light validity.
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
yes; many actual research methods guidelines would show that gateway drug studies provide heavily skewed results that carry very heavy results, but very light validity.
At the same time, people who begin using marijuana, and find it meets their unconscious and maladapted emotional needs enter the world of regular drug use, with the consequences being the stunting of their actual adaptation. That's a big "gateway" issue right there, moving from non maladaptive response into maladaptive response (and in many cases, further maladaptive response). It is on par with using other toxic behaviours maladaptively (like alcohol, food as in eating disorders, even coffee addiction, and workaholism, shopaholism, porn/sex addiction, etc.).
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
At the same time, people who begin using marijuana, and find it meets their unconscious and maladapted emotional needs enter the world of regular drug use, with the consequences being the stunting of their actual adaptation. That's a big "gateway" issue right there, moving from non maladaptive response into maladaptive response (and in many cases, further maladaptive response). It is on par with using other toxic behaviours maladaptively (like alcohol, food as in eating disorders, even coffee addiction, and workaholism, shopaholism, porn/sex addiction, etc.).
very intelligent, and indeed, very very true. i only argue that if these other behaviors are perfectly legal, there is no reason that marijuana--with its virtually inexistent correlation to deaths per year--shouldn't also be legal. not just because of this 'if those are legal, this should be too!' ideology, but also because of many of the good points raised in the war on drugs thread.
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
The "rule" says that once one is moving in a specific direction, one will keep moving in the same direction unless heroic effort to stop is undertaken. For example, if one says no to street drugs on all levels, they are not taking that first step down the slippery slope of drug use. And once one does take that first step, it's like a snowball moving in that direction gaining speed, momentum and power. As one progresses, one's consciousness, experience and lifestyle, including use of street-drugs, grows and expands, taking on progressively more and more prominance to an individual. And making it harder to extricate one's self from it.
.
without getting into one of your debates on the human mind...can you not agree that lumping all recreational drugs into the category of illegal = wrong is what creates and defines that very door or slope? I'm sure you know more than I regarding personality traits that lead to this type of curiosity. Don't you think there will always be a certain 'type' of person that will seek out mind altering substances, no matter the education? Do those people deserve to be persecuted if they are not directly harming any other person?
enjoy:
A study of drug use among young men suggests that those who used marijuana before trying alcohol or tobacco were about as likely to develop an addiction problem as those who drank or smoked before using marijuana, according to researchers who say the findings run counter to the "gateway" theory underlying much of U.S. drug policy.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported Dec. 5 that researchers from the University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy found that about a quarter of the 200 young men studied used marijuana before trying alcohol or tobacco. "This is actually quite novel, this idea," said lead researcher Ralph E. Tarter. "It runs counter to about six decades of current drug policy in the country, where we believe that if we can't stop kids from using marijuana, then they're going to go on and become addicts to hard drugs."
Neil Capretto, medical director of the Gateway Rehabilitation Center in Aliquippa, Pa., said some addicted patients' first drug was heroin, not alcohol or marijuana. He said the study "really shows the complex nature of addiction. What they're showing here is what we've been seeing in practice for years."
Capretto added that most people who use marijuana never go on to use harder drugs. "If we could push a button and all the marijuana would go away, by no means will that stop the drug problem in this country," he said.
The researchers did find, however, that marijuana users tended to have less parental supervision, live in neighborhoods where the drug was easily available, and were more apt to be behaviorally deviant, less involved in school, and to hang out with people that their parents didn't like.
The study, funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, was published in the December 2006 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry.
Reference:
Reference:
Tarter, RE, Vanyukov, M, Kirisci, L, Reynolds, M, Clark, DB. (2006) Predictors of Marijuana Use in Adolescents Before and After Licit Drug Use: Examination of the Gateway Hypothesis. Am J Psychiatry, 163(12): 2134 - 2140.
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
very intelligent, and indeed, very very true. i only argue that if these other behaviors are perfectly legal, there is no reason that marijuana--with its virtually inexistent correlation to deaths per year--shouldn't also be legal. not just because of this 'if those are legal, this should be too!' ideology, but also because of many of the good points raised in the war on drugs thread.
I'm all for decriminalization, as this is not a criminal issue--it's a psychological one.
At the same time, the same psychological rule applies to legalizing marijuana. There is the slippery slope and the same psychological foot-in-the-door issue with giving marijuana reputability applies, wherein it becomes a snowball moving in a direction that millions of peple--a majority--are unwilling to support. And I can completely understand that reluctance. Sure, the same millions are most likely unaware of the consequences of their alcohol abuse, or workaholism, or gambling, or sex addiction, until their lives begin succumbing to the maladaptation. That hypocrisy does not negate the valid dynamics of not wanting to support the toxic psychological nature of drug abuse.
I agree drugs are demonized and are the symbol of what others do with "reputability".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
without getting into one of your debates on the human mind...can you not agree that lumping all recreational drugs into the category of illegal = wrong is what creates and defines that very door or slope? I'm sure you know more than I regarding personality traits that lead to this type of curiosity. Don't you think there will always be a certain 'type' of person that will seek out mind altering substances, no matter the education? Do those people deserve to be persecuted if they are not directly harming any other person?
As I say, I'm for decriminalization. I'm for taking the criminal shame/blame and miscarriage of legal justice out of it. And yet, I personally cannot support something that I don't want continued. Particularly in the realm of substance abuse. To support it, condone it, or turn a blind eye to it is enabling it, which is an equally psychologically maladaptive stance, and a part of the toxic puzzle. So, to return the issue to the realm of the psyche, and address the actual issues is where I stand, and decriminalization is a start.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
but substance abuse, no matter how detrimental to one's body, should really only be only the business of those who wish to abuse it. in the decriminalized society many of us seem to support, someone with a habit or an addiction would have a much better chance at maintaining a livelihood in which they could be a working, productive member of society. this is much harder than a society in which all drugs are illegal. So what if a person chooses to work primarily to support a habit? how is that any different than someone working just so they can afford premium cable so they can sit on their ass and wach tv all day?
angelica, i fear it may sound as though i'm posting to argue with you, but i assure you that's not my intention. your posts are interesting and insightful, so i'm simply enjoying the exchange
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
Comments
I have to say, this thread is amusing...the image that some have of those who smoke is straight out of the movies...
One other thought that just popped into my head: Would you rather a 13-year-old get caught steeling a marijuana cigarette out of his father's coat pocket, or not get caught buying it from some drug dealer in a bad neighborhood that may have laced it with cocaine for that matter? People are responsible for their children and good parents keep track of where their children are and who they hang out with, and teach them to be responsible.
lol...that ain't never happened unless you pay extra up front, and it's a selling feature.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I agree that underaged kids shouldn't be smoking, drinking (though I think 21 is too old, make it 18 or 16) ...
naděje umírá poslední
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
This means something like "let's legalize anything that fucks your brain, even slightly, less than alcohol."
Plus, if alcohol is to be compared to MaryJane, as far as mortality is concerned, well you have to consider the fact that alcohol IS legal. Meaning that there's a lot more use of it. So, of course, in the end, people die more often because of alcohol than the occasional pot.
And if my opinion is of any interrest, As an occasional alcoholic and potsmoker, I'm in favor of legalisation. It 's proven to reduce criminality.
Funny (well at least to me) fact : many kingdoms (often thought of as conservative) have authorised it in Europe (Spain, Holland, Belgium).
Not one fatality has been recorded in all of history....that's a lot of smoking...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Oh you're talking life long?... I'm just talking about in one sitting as in consumption of the drug itself.
I'm assuming it's lung cancer. Did your friend ever work in a smoke filled place?
People have gotten lung cancer and never smoked anything before.
There are some new studies out that suggest that say the THC kills aging cells before they can become cancerous.
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/HealthScout/070417/6041715AU.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html
http://www.webmd.com/news/20000508/marijuana-unlikely-to-cause-cancer
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Well you see they can make a pill already (and very easily), but because it's so simple to grow yourself (i.e. just add water), people would argue like mad for the legalization of it the moment the first pill was put to market, the argument would then be be unstoppable, and it would have to be legalized.
And they lose money...all the while people lose their entire lives in jail.
greedy rotten ______!!
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
as far as the gateway drug theory goes, most hard drug users DO start with a mellower drug like marijuana, but most people who use hard drugs are also people with a drug seeking personality, and will find their way to harder drugs regardless of what they started on.
just take a drugs in society class taught by someone with some authentic intelligence, and get the ignorance over with.
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
The point of all this goes back to a previous poster (sorry don't want to read through for your name) that pot is a gateway drug, just as tobacco and alcohol are gateway drugs. They lead to bigger and better things. Studies abound on this fact. (RAND, University of Pitt, Karolina, APA, NIDA etc)
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
say a study was lucky enough to determine that 100% of heroin or cocaine or meth users started with smoking pot; that doesn't even come CLOSE to proving or determining that any significantly large percentage of people who smoke pot will graduate to a heavier drug.
correlation is not causation. this is like saying that just because someone who is obese loves eating cake, someone who loves eating cake will become obese...
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
amen
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
1. Not the point, alcohol gets everyone drunk..... weed makes you lethargic. FACT
2. The graphic designer might do well, if he could be bothered doing any work.....
3. The argument isn't about legalities..... but yes, you are right. Still, it is dangerous to drive when stoned, the discussion is about weed, why make comparisons to alcohol.
4. Ah, studies...... link?
5. Milk helps toughen bones and provides cacium which is handy, so if it is a gateway liquid it is a good thing....... inhaling smoke into previously lovely, pink, fresh lungs isn't so good.
- PJ avoid me like the plague
You know, for some reason I don't think this has anything to do with you thinking folks can't 'control' themselves, but your desire to control behavior you don't 'agree' with.
Anyway, back to the topic of the thread.............Although it is true that marijuana is perhaps a less dangerous drug than alcohol, ie, no toxicity level, it is dishonest to say there are no negative aspects. Regular marijuana smokers can experience the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers do. Marijuana contains more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke. Marijuana smokers usually inhale deeper and hold the smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers, so their lungs are exposed to those carcinogenic properties longer. Just keeping it real.................
That said, I think it should be decriminalized.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
so is living in a society where alcohol use and nicotine use is dominant
what a laughable world we live in
The "rule" says that once one is moving in a specific direction, one will keep moving in the same direction unless heroic effort to stop is undertaken. For example, if one says no to street drugs on all levels, they are not taking that first step down the slippery slope of drug use. And once one does take that first step, it's like a snowball moving in that direction gaining speed, momentum and power. As one progresses, one's consciousness, experience and lifestyle, including use of street-drugs, grows and expands, taking on progressively more and more prominance to an individual. And making it harder to extricate one's self from it.
This rule is not in dispute and can be seen in anything from letting a saleperson get their "foot in the door" with you for sales to embarking on one's first street-drug, cigarette, abuse of alcohol or any other toxic behaviour, etc.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
without getting into one of your debates on the human mind...can you not agree that lumping all recreational drugs into the category of illegal = wrong is what creates and defines that very door or slope? I'm sure you know more than I regarding personality traits that lead to this type of curiosity. Don't you think there will always be a certain 'type' of person that will seek out mind altering substances, no matter the education? Do those people deserve to be persecuted if they are not directly harming any other person?
A study of drug use among young men suggests that those who used marijuana before trying alcohol or tobacco were about as likely to develop an addiction problem as those who drank or smoked before using marijuana, according to researchers who say the findings run counter to the "gateway" theory underlying much of U.S. drug policy.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported Dec. 5 that researchers from the University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy found that about a quarter of the 200 young men studied used marijuana before trying alcohol or tobacco. "This is actually quite novel, this idea," said lead researcher Ralph E. Tarter. "It runs counter to about six decades of current drug policy in the country, where we believe that if we can't stop kids from using marijuana, then they're going to go on and become addicts to hard drugs."
Neil Capretto, medical director of the Gateway Rehabilitation Center in Aliquippa, Pa., said some addicted patients' first drug was heroin, not alcohol or marijuana. He said the study "really shows the complex nature of addiction. What they're showing here is what we've been seeing in practice for years."
Capretto added that most people who use marijuana never go on to use harder drugs. "If we could push a button and all the marijuana would go away, by no means will that stop the drug problem in this country," he said.
The researchers did find, however, that marijuana users tended to have less parental supervision, live in neighborhoods where the drug was easily available, and were more apt to be behaviorally deviant, less involved in school, and to hang out with people that their parents didn't like.
The study, funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, was published in the December 2006 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry.
Reference:
Reference:
Tarter, RE, Vanyukov, M, Kirisci, L, Reynolds, M, Clark, DB. (2006) Predictors of Marijuana Use in Adolescents Before and After Licit Drug Use: Examination of the Gateway Hypothesis. Am J Psychiatry, 163(12): 2134 - 2140.
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
At the same time, the same psychological rule applies to legalizing marijuana. There is the slippery slope and the same psychological foot-in-the-door issue with giving marijuana reputability applies, wherein it becomes a snowball moving in a direction that millions of peple--a majority--are unwilling to support. And I can completely understand that reluctance. Sure, the same millions are most likely unaware of the consequences of their alcohol abuse, or workaholism, or gambling, or sex addiction, until their lives begin succumbing to the maladaptation. That hypocrisy does not negate the valid dynamics of not wanting to support the toxic psychological nature of drug abuse.
I agree drugs are demonized and are the symbol of what others do with "reputability".
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
angelica, i fear it may sound as though i'm posting to argue with you, but i assure you that's not my intention. your posts are interesting and insightful, so i'm simply enjoying the exchange
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle