Obama has got some nerve

LONGRD

slightofjeff wrote:

I would say he's shaming us into wanting to learn another language. Which is something a bit different.

Hey, if you want to become fluent in German, go for it. More power to you. It's an admirable trait.

But don't talk down to me if I'd prefer to learn just enough Spanish to get me through high school. Especially if I live in Nebraska. I have enough problems, with all the erotic dreams about corn and such.

Why do you see his statement as "shaming" you?
The first thought to my mind was encouragement.

I'm not even talking down on the "Nebraska dream" at all, man.

slightofjeff

LongRd. wrote:

Why do you see his statement as "shaming" you?

Doesn't he actually use the word "embarrasing?"

LONGRD

slightofjeff wrote:

Doesn't he actually use the word "embarrasing?"

I'm actually embarrassed that I'm only fluent in English. :( Making Euros would really sweet right now.

Like I said, learn whatever you want but don't blame your boss if he decides to take his company overseas for a smaller payroll to get a bigger profit with similar production.

Anon

How can it hurt to know some Spanish? It pretty much our our second language, and just about everyone else on our continent and its environs speaks it. I don't see it as a bad thing. Obama is saying he agrees immigrants should learn english too.

He also went on to say....
"We should understand that our young people, if you have a foreign language, that is a powerful tool to get a job. You are so much more employable. You can be part of international business. So we should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age, because children will actually learn a foreign language easier when they're 5, or 6, or 7 than when they're 46, like me."

I agree with Obama.

slightofjeff

Pj_Gurl wrote:

How can it hurt to know some Spanish? It pretty much our our second language, and just about everyone else on our continent and its environs speaks it. I don't see it as a bad thing. Obama is saying he agrees immigrants should learn english too.

He also went on to say....
"We should understand that our young people, if you have a foreign language, that is a powerful tool to get a job. You are so much more employable. You can be part of international business. So we should be emphasizing foreign languages in our schools from an early age, because children will actually learn a foreign language easier when they're 5, or 6, or 7 than when they're 46, like me."

I agree with Obama.

In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).

To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.

I guess I don't know what Barry is striving at here. If his point is that voluntarily learning a foreign language is a cool step that could produce rewards later in life ... well, thanks for the info. That's kind of a no-duh type of statement. I mean, who doesn't agree with that?

If his point is that Little Johnny should be forced to learn how to conjugate French verbs in the present perfect tense while in kindergarten ... then I don't know how realistic this is.

Either way, I'm not sure what campaign point he's trying to make, other than he's embarrased by us rubes who are only fluent in one language.

Also, didn't Kerry basically lose the last election because he came off as elitist and quasi-European? Barry's risking coming off the same with ideas like this.

LikeAnOcean

know1 wrote:

I think we should pick a national language and use it exclusively, but as to the question of whether everyone needs to learn it, that should be up to the individual.

One world language would be nicer.. It would avoid a lot of confusion.. I don't care what language it is. It will probably come one day..

Anon

slightofjeff wrote:

In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).

To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.

I guess I don't know what Barry is striving at here. If his point is that voluntarily learning a foreign language is a cool step that could produce reawards later in life ... well, thanks for the info. That's kind of a no-duh type of statement. I mean, who doesn't agree with that?

If his point is that Little Johnny should be forced to learn how to conjugate French verbs in the present perfect tense while in kindergarten ... then I don't know how realistic this is.

Either way, I'm not sure what campaign point he's trying to make, other then he's embarrased by us rubes who are only fluent in one language.

Embarrasing was probably not the best choice of words. I agree that much. As stated in my post above, i have no problems with anything else that he said.

Smellyman2

slightofjeff wrote:

In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).quote]

utter nonsense..

Kids starting early learn two languages as easy as pie.

Makes us adults look retarded.

dunkman

slightofjeff wrote:

In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).

To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.

this is totally untrue.

on my recent holiday i spoke to the hotel rep guy who could speak 5 different languages. He said that in Bulgaria they teach English and Russian from a very early age... Holland does the same, as do the Scandinavian countries... in fact, in the western world its only really the UK and the US who dont... thats because we think everyone should learn our language... we're pompous that way

Collin

Yes, many Europeans are required to learn another language during their school days. This does not mean they actually speak or know that language. How many Americans here took Spanish, French or German and hardly remember a word?

It's the same thing in Europe. Perhaps some words, phrases linger a little longer because we come into contact with those languages more often.

It is true that many Europeans speak or at least understand English. I think this is quite logical, English has become a worldwide lingua franca, through the media mostly (internet, tv and music).

In European countries where they subtitle American and English movies, you'll notice that the people understand English a lot better and speak it more fluently than for instance in Spain or Italy, where they dub.

I noticed many people here said they tried to speak the local language of the country they visit. That seems to contradict my own personal experience with (English speaking) tourists. I speak English and I don't expect a tourist to speak my language (which is only spoken by 23 million people). I also understand and speak a little German, again I don't expect native speakers of German to speak Dutch to me, I'll be glad to try and help them in German (I learnt it at school, I'm sure they didn't study Dutch). Same goes for French. The only thing that bothers me is that my country is bilingual (tri-lingual actually) but the French side rarely tries to speak Dutch and knows we will understand French and probably be able to utter a few words, at least the basics. And I don't fool myself, when I'm in a country where I don't speak the language, I don't try to speak their language, I try English and French. I don't consider saying "thank you" and "a beer" in their language as a real effort.

Someone already pointed this out. Many immigrants do speak English well, especially the second generation. A study here showed that Arabic kids were able to speak our language perfectly, without an accent. However, they rarely did. They used a mix of Arabic, local dialect and standard language... And why wouldn't they?

TrixieCat

slightofjeff wrote:

In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).

To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.

I guess I don't know what Barry is striving at here. If his point is that voluntarily learning a foreign language is a cool step that could produce rewards later in life ... well, thanks for the info. That's kind of a no-duh type of statement. I mean, who doesn't agree with that?

If his point is that Little Johnny should be forced to learn how to conjugate French verbs in the present perfect tense while in kindergarten ... then I don't know how realistic this is.

Either way, I'm not sure what campaign point he's trying to make, other than he's embarrased by us rubes who are only fluent in one language.

Also, didn't Kerry basically lose the last election because he came off as elitist and quasi-European? Barry's risking coming off the same with ideas like this.

I am guessing you don't have children because at the tender ages of 3-5 they are filling their brains to the brim with info and learning at a shockingly fast pace. That would be the time to begin to form a base for a second language.
I don't see how this is Obama being embarassed. More like he wants to lift us up and become a nation that is not known for guns and donuts, but our ability to educate our children to the best of our abilities and prepare them for the future.

nobody

TrixieCat wrote:

I am guessing you don't have children because at the tender ages of 3-5 they are filling their brains to the brim with info and learning at a shockingly fast pace. That would be the time to begin to form a base for a second language.
I don't see how this is Obama being embarassed. More like he wants to lift us up and become a nation that is not known for guns and donuts, but our ability to educate our children to the best of our abilities and prepare them for the future.

just to lend this some more support: every serious scientific study shows that the younger children are the easier they learn a language. Once people are past 14 or even 16 you have to put a ton of effort into learning a language to become fluent.
whereas young children even pick up a language easy from a maid that speaks a different language just from her talking to them...
that's why in general for immigrants it's a great advantage to come to a new country at a very young age, since they are able a lot better than their parents to learn the new language and speak it like a native...

m.

slightofjeff

TrixieCat wrote:

I am guessing you don't have children because at the tender ages of 3-5 they are filling their brains to the brim with info and learning at a shockingly fast pace. That would be the time to begin to form a base for a second language.

Again, if that's something parents want to do, have at it. I think it's very admirable. But I'm not sure that's what Obama is talking about here. If he's talking about making it part of the curriculum, where you have to pass Spanish to pass kindergarten ... not so sure that's feasible. Like I said, some kindergarteners are already getting their ass kicked by their native tongue.

I don't see how this is Obama being embarassed.

Ask Obama. He's the one who said he was embarassed about it... not me.

_

slightofjeff wrote:

In principal, yeah. But our 5-year-olds are having enough trouble mastering the ins and outs of their native tongue (English).

To me, this is like trying to force a kid to learn differential calculus when he can barely add and subtract.

My friends who are multilingual with English as their native language say it was learning another language that helped them truly master English.

Am I ashamed that I'm monolingual? Yes, I am. I'm also pissed that the elementary school I went to (which was run by the federal governemnt) didn't teach me another language while it still would have been easy to learn.

I agree with Obama on this one wholeheartedly.

meistereder

scb wrote:

My friends who are multilingual with English as their native language say it was learning another language that helped them truly master English.

Am I ashamed that I'm monolingual? Yes, I am. I'm also pissed that the elementary school I went to (which was run by the federal governemnt) didn't teach me another language while it still would have been easy to learn.

I agree with Obama on this one wholeheartedly.

Absolutely agree with this. I am bilingual, and having the background of a second language has helped me not only with additional languages that I understand conversationally, but also with English. Research supports this. Kids who go back and forth between languages are exercising their brains in ways that one language kids aren't.

norm

slightofjeff wrote:

Again, if that's something parents want to do, have at it. I think it's very admirable. But I'm not sure that's what Obama is talking about here. If he's talking about making it part of the curriculum, where you have to pass Spanish to pass kindergarten ... not so sure that's feasible. Like I said, some kindergarteners are already getting their ass kicked by their native tongue.

yea but that's got nothing to do with learning a language....it's the state of our education system....no child left behind my ass....if european countries can do it, we certainly can....

slightofjeff

cutback wrote:

yea but that's got nothing to do with learning a language....it's the state of our education system....no child left behind my ass....if european countries can do it, we certainly can....

I guess my point is, why don't we work on correcting major problems, before we worry ourselves with minor ones?

Johnny's inability to fucking read takes precedence over Johnny's inability to properly order a bottle of wine on the Champs-Elyesses.

meistereder

slightofjeff wrote:

I guess my point is, why don't we work on correcting major problems, before we worry ourselves with minor ones?

Johnny's inability to fucking read takes precedence over Johnny's inability to properly order a bottle of wine on the Champs-Elyesses.

I don't think that's what Obama we're talking about.

slightofjeff

meistereder wrote:

I don't think that's what Obama we're talking about.

I guess that's sort of my over-arching point on this thread. I don't know what the fuck Obama IS talking about.

Is he saying I need to learn a bit of French before I take that summer vacation to Paris? If so, thanks for the suggestion. My travel agent said the same thing.

If he's saying I should somehow be forced to learn French as a kindergartener ... I don't know about that.

Mostly, I'm just tired of people telling me how I should live and how I should raise my kids.

norm

slightofjeff wrote:

I guess that's sort of my over-arching point on this thread. I don't know what the fuck Obama IS talking about.

neither do i but he says it so well

slightofjeff wrote:

Is he saying I need to learn a bit of French before I take that summer vacation to Paris? If so, thanks for the suggestion. My travel agent said the same thing.

If he's saying I should somehow be forced to learn French as a kindergartener ... I don't know about that.

i don't know about barak, but my feeling is in the proper educational environment, adding another language to a young childs plate isn't that big of a deal....from what i understand is a child's brain can soak up a tremendous amount of info and retain it...like i said, europe and japan et al is doing it, why don't we?

slightofjeff wrote:

Mostly, I'm just tired of people telling me how I should live and how I should raise my kids.

couldn't agree more